Worked on the Olds today -- it's ready now

[JRD77VET]

Went out to Rough and Tumble today and worked some more on the Olds. After I ran it last week ( it fired once with fuel added to the combustion chamber ) it had a slight valve leak due to a piece of carbon breaking free.

Since I had to pull the intake valve cage ( two bolts and a cotter pin to get it out ), I lapped the valve and seat and it works perfect now.

Then I added some fuel to the tank which is actually the cast iron base it sits on. I used camp stove fuel since it's low octane ( like the fuel back at the turn of the previous century ) and doesn't have any ethanol to screw up things.

The plan was to add fuel and make sure the pump actually pumped fuel out. There is a handle to manually work the fuel to prime it. Well, I pumped and pumped, then added some more fuel but no fuel came out.

A took off the caps at the check valves and verified they worked ( they did ). After priming the check valves, it did pump that fuel out.

Then I asked Bill for some help and after trying a few things, we stuck a wire down the pipe in the back for the fuel pump. ( red arrow )

It supposed to go down as far as the green arrow.

But it stops at the yellow arrow

Must come up with plan B or plan C. B would be to cut both pipes and replace them as it doesn't slide up anymore ( I don't understand why, how much could it really corrode in a 110 years? )

C would be to slide a thin wall brass thru the existing pipe to the bottom of the fuel tank.

[mrvette]

Option C and I bet you find some insect all purrfectly preserved in there.....

[simpleman68]

Maybe a small snake of sorts like a pipe cleaner that can be used to clean out the debris?
I'm thinking a small gauge wire inserted into a drill chuck and spin it into the hole.

Scott

[Jeff '79]

Is that pipe brass, cast, galvanized, or copper ?
I wonder if there is a screen to stop debris where it is stopping.

[OddBall]

'Stops', as in the pipe's length stops at the yellow arrow? Or plugged up?

If it just ends at the yellow arrow, can you replace it? If not, (or not wanting to replace original parts) can it be lengthened; such as welding/brazing another section of pipe to the end in the case.

If it's just plugged, can you just ream/drill it out with a long bit?

I tend to think your brass insert idea is the best though.

[JRD77VET]

Originally Posted by simpleman68

Maybe a small snake of sorts like a pipe cleaner that can be used to clean out the debris?
I'm thinking a small gauge wire inserted into a drill chuck and spin it into the hole.

Scott

I can touch the bottom of the tank thru the check valve and pipe. The problem is the pipe is broken off at the yellow arrow.

To over simplify, the pipe doesn't reach the fuel anymore

Originally Posted by Jeff '79

Is that pipe brass, cast, galvanized, or copper ?
I wonder if there is a screen to stop debris where it is stopping.

Even better, it's wrought iron.

Originally Posted by OddBall

'Stops', as in the pipe's length stops at the yellow arrow? Or plugged up?

If it just ends at the yellow arrow, can you replace it? If not, (or not wanting to replace original parts) can it be lengthened; such as welding/brazing another section of pipe to the end in the case.

If it's just plugged, can you just ream/drill it out with a long bit?

I tend to think your brass insert idea is the best though.

I'm doing my best to keep it as original as possible. The pipe ends at the yellow arrow instead of going down to almost the bottom.

I can get thin wall brass tubing for from www.mscdirect.com for literally a few dollars a foot. ( plus shipping ) My friend Roger will get measurements next weekend and I'll buy the right size tubing and some fuel resistant epoxy to keep it in place.

That way it will still look original and it will work.

[DAB]

likely rusted off long ago.

[JRD77VET]

Originally Posted by DAB

likely rusted off long ago.

Or the 75 mile journey on the trailer broke it free.

One of the guys who shows up on work days ( first saturday every month ) has an inspection camera that fit in the 3/4" gas fill hole.

We saw one pipe in the tank but I just "assumed" it was the pick up since the other pipe is the overflow. Why have that come so close to the bottom

It seems it was the overflow I saw

[JRD77VET]

Went back out to Rough and Tumble today and had some success. I purchased a piece of thin wall brass tubing , 1/4" OD with a .014 ( about 1/64th ) thick wall and put that in the tube with the arrows. The tubing starts just above the red arrow and goes down to about where the green arrow is.

The tubing was "extremely expensive". It was $2.21 ( plus shipping ), took about 8 minutes to install including using a 10" long 1/4" drill bit to make sure it would go thru the original pipe.

The good news is it works perfectly, I had fuel flowing with six pumps of the priming handle.

Worked on getting it started and after it ran for about 15 seconds, fuel was spraying out of the vent as the return tube was not flowing freely.

Blue arrow at top was where I had a 2' tall spray of flammable mist blowing out.


Another slight problem was the governor spring is just a bit heavy allowing the engine to run at the top of the allowable RPM range. A lighter spring will be the fix for that issue.

I removed the vent ( where the fuel mist was spraying out ) and was able to run a heavy wire down and get that flowing correctly again.

I have an old cooling tank for it ( Roger isn't sure if it is the original cooling tank but it is the correct vintage, it's a riveted tank )

I put that in place and measured for the hold downs.





Overall it was a very good day and it should be running for the Spring Steam Up show in May.

Also, Matt came up with a piece of 2" flexible stainless steel exhaust tubing so we can hook up to the under floor exhaust pipe. No only will it be quiet but I won't be fuming everyone out.

[OddBall]

So did you hold your hands in that that 2" fuel mist to help cut all the grease on your hands?
C'mon, you know you did.

[JRD77VET]

Originally Posted by OddBall

So did you hold your hands in that that 2" fuel mist to help cut all the grease on your hands?
C'mon, you know you did.

2 FEET in the air, not 2 inches. For some odd reason everyone was making a mad dash to the battery to stop the sparking

Besides, I'll use GoJo, it's a LOT safer and doesn't explode

[markids77]

Elegant solutions to difficult problems.

[simpleman68]

Originally Posted by JRD77VET

I removed the vent ( where the fuel mist was spraying out ) and was able to run a heavy wire down and get that flowing correctly again.

Good ole' redneck ingenuity
I was wondering if that would have worked for the original tube that was blocked halfway down.
Probably not as a thin enough wire to get down the passage would not have the strength to clear the clog.
Scott

[JRD77VET]

Originally Posted by simpleman68

Good ole' redneck ingenuity
I was wondering if that would have worked for the original tube that was blocked halfway down.
Probably not as a thin enough wire to get down the passage would not have the strength to clear the clog.
Scott

I tried some .030 MIG wire but that wasn't getting it done. They had some 14 gauge wire ( .080 thick -just under 3/32 ) and that did the trick. Having is soak in fuel for a bit probably helped too.

It would have been faster from the start to just replace the pipes but I want to keep it as original as possible.

It's only original once

[DAB]

So a flaming vent is bad?!

Bet it would have looked awesome on video.

"No ma'am, that's normal, it's how they kept the shop warm."

[JRD77VET]

Originally Posted by DAB

So a flaming vent is bad?!

Bet it would have looked awesome on video.

"No ma'am, that's normal, it's how they kept the shop warm."

Uncontrolled fire is bad. If you look at the bottom picture, there is a fire extinguisher right by the door at the Olds

[OddBall]

Originally Posted by JRD77VET

2 FEET in the air, not 2 inches. For some odd reason everyone was making a mad dash to the battery to stop the sparking

Besides, I'll use GoJo, it's a LOT safer and doesn't explode

[JRD77VET]

Went out again today and actually got work done although it really didn't look like much

First thing I did was remove the intake valve cage and run a tap into the holes at the red arrows. I also ran a die over the original bolts.

I would have done this the previous trip but it's "old school" threads and they were 1/2-12NC instead of the modern 1/2-13NC ( this was made before they standardized threads )



Next on the list was figuring out how I was going to run the exhaust into the below floor piping system we have. The exhaust uses 2" NPT piping so we cut some pipe and threaded it on the Rigid Pipe Threaded ( let me rephrase, the POWERED pipe threader ) and mocked it up.

As shown below, we made a longer down pipe, used the original beaded 90* elbow, a 3" long connector pipe and the into a flanged 90* elbow.

The flanged elbow bolts to a stainless steel flex which we had out at R&T. I was very happy we had that as that is a $250 to $300 part

I will remove the right flange and weld a piece of 2" pipe which I will turn down ( reduce diameter ) to connect to an upright out of the exhaust pipe.

Where the green dot is, I will hole saw a 3" hole in the pipe and then I will mig weld a 2" NPT coupler into the hole. The outside diameter is 2-7/8" so it will be very easy to weld in place. The coupler ( yellow arrow ) is what gets welded into the hole.

Then a piece of pipe will be screwed into the connector with a 90* elbow ( far left ) to connect to the flex.



I got some material at work ( which my new boss GAVE to me ) to make the hold downs for the cooling tank. I threaded the ends and then took them back into work and they bent the ends for me.



I squeezed the ends in using a vise and then cut them off shorter. ( by leaving them long, it made it much easier for the guys to put the bend on them )


Now it's mounted solidly

[Jeff '79]

Wow... That takes some skillz....
I'm looking forward to the appearance of the finished product.

[JRD77VET]

Originally Posted by Jeff '79

Wow... That takes some skillz....
I'm looking forward to the appearance of the finished product.

Although the original appearance is important, I want to run it longer than 10-15 seconds it's done so far.

It's so close....