The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

With 500+ Mile range, it's just as useful for towing as a gas truck. For common 1/2 ton pickup use between home improvement stores and local work sites, it works already perfect and can save businesses a lot of money on gas or diesel.

Maybe no gas or diesel expenses but you can buy a lifetime of fuel for the difference in cost of an F150 vs the cyber truck.

And frankly if all someone is doing is an occasional trip to Home Depot a Tacoma or Ranger would do. Hell my wife’s little Cherokee will do.

[MadInNc]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Ignoring for a minute the fact that you would add a stupid amount of weight to a "truck" that already weighs thousands of pounds more than it's competitors, if the Chinese "extender" supposedly costs $16k, how much more do you suppose those extra batteries are going to add to the already asinine price of the world's most incapable "truck"?



A 10,000 pound, $150k "truck" that still has less capabilities as a truck than any other truck on the market... sounds fantastic.

But hey, at least it's "bulletproof".

update:

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

… and can save businesses a lot of money on gas or diesel.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Cost is not an issue. There are people willing to pay more for a longer range version.

Pick one.

How much will a business have to pay for this mythical 500+ mile range version that will save them so much money?

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

May be a dumb name but the refresh Model Y looks a lot better than the current one. That's why many are waiting for it and that hurts Model Y sales.

Think of it as the Osborne Effect in action.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The only reason why they went with a smaller battery is that it would have decreased production volume.

Oh, the only reason is that they couldn't actually make it? It's just that?

It's amazing that in Tesla world, not being able to actually produce what you say you will produce seems to be a minor problem. Bonus points that what you actually DO make has less capability but still costs significantly more than it was supposed to. Eh... no big deal.

Speaking of costs, you still haven't answered the question of how much this magical extra battery power will cost. You know... the 500+ mile range that will "save businesses a lot of money" over any of the $40k 1/2 ton trucks on the market (that still out perform it).

You're also not considering that any business looking to save money can easily go buy any used 1/2 tons that can be driven and maintained for a fraction of the cost. Used EVs? You have admitted numerous times that an EV out of warranty is a terrible idea.

Your inability to admit that it is absolutely awful as a TRUCK is hilarious.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

With 500+ Mile range, it's just as useful for towing as a gas truck. For common 1/2 ton pickup use between home improvement stores and local work sites, it works already perfect and can save businesses a lot of money on gas or diesel.

It gets it's ugly ass stomped in every category that actually matters by even the lowest entry level 1/2 ton trucks. If you are talking about trucks used at "work sites" I can absolutely promise that you don't want to start comparing it to diesel trucks.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Pick one.

How much will a business have to pay for this mythical 500+ mile range version that will save them so much money?

Most businesses won't need 500+ mile range.. The $79990 version (no tax credit for businesses, BUT, a more expensive truck gives them a bigger tax deduction) of the truck with 340 mile range should work for most businesses. Most hauling is done from Suppliers to construction sites and this is generally locally. Very few businesses use 1/2 ton pickup trucks to haul large trailers cross country.
Construction is usually in a local/regional area. Nobody buys material in another town, far away to haul it to construction sites.
Lawncare businesses usually handle local areas.. Even around here, a lawncare business in Tampa won't cut my lawn here in Lakeland which is only 25 miles away. I have to get a local lawncare business.
Even AC companies in Tampa usually don't come to Lakeland. This goes for many types of businesses that use pickup trucks.
If you have a fleet of 10 pickup trucks, the savings could be significant.
Checked Autotrader and a typical Crew Cab truck like a F150 STARTS around $46k (and that's the base version with the lame 2.7 liter turbo engine). Estimated monthly payment on that truck is $600 if financed for 72 months. The payment on the Cybertruck is $900. If the company uses each truck for 55k miles per year, their monthly gas expense at current gas prices of $3.65 (national average) is $929 per truck per month. For 10 trucks, that's $9290 per month in gas expense. The average cost of electricity in the US is 15 cents per kwh. At 2.5 miles per kwh, the monthly cost for electricity per truck per month is $275. That's a $654 savings per month. For the first 72 months, the saving is only $354 PER TRUCK, $3540 for 10 trucks. After 72 months, the savings is $654 per truck per month or $7848 per truck per year or $78480 of savings for all 10 trucks per year.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

Maybe no gas or diesel expenses but you can buy a lifetime of fuel for the difference in cost of an F150 vs the cyber truck.

And frankly if all someone is doing is an occasional trip to Home Depot a Tacoma or Ranger would do. Hell my wife’s little Cherokee will do.

Not true. Cost break down in post 2586

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Pick one.

How much will a business have to pay for this mythical 500+ mile range version that will save them so much money?

The 500+ mile range is not for businesses but rather individuals who haul campers/trailers long distances or just for people who want to have long range. I would be a potential customer. If they make a 500+ mile range version, I would pay up to $120k for it. It shouldn't even be that expensive considering that they make their own 4680 cells, so, the batteries cost them relatively little to make (compared to buying from a supplier)

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Not true. Cost break down in post 2586

Yes true.

A new 1/2 ton pickup truck can be bought for 40K and the cyber truck is at least twice that cost.

And that 1/2 ton truck can be bought today. I’m not sure the cyber truck can be bought today.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Not true. Cost break down in post 2586

I bought my Denali dually brand new and have operated and maintained it for a decade for less than you said you would pay for a "truck"...

Including more cross country towing trips than I can count.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I would pay up to $120k for it.

You would pay $120k for Elon to shit in a bag.

...and for that $120k, you still couldn't come even remotely close to doing what that decade old truck in my garage can do with ease.

Except driving faster in a straight line... because that's what's important in a truck. Oh, and being "bulletproof". You'll also have that.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Most businesses won't need 500+ mile range.. The $79990 version (no tax credit for businesses, BUT, a more expensive truck gives them a bigger tax deduction) of the truck with 340 mile range should work for most businesses. Most hauling is done from Suppliers to construction sites and this is generally locally. Very few businesses use 1/2 ton pickup trucks to haul large trailers cross country.
Construction is usually in a local/regional area. Nobody buys material in another town, far away to haul it to construction sites.
Lawncare businesses usually handle local areas.. Even around here, a lawncare business in Tampa won't cut my lawn here in Lakeland which is only 25 miles away. I have to get a local lawncare business.
Even AC companies in Tampa usually don't come to Lakeland. This goes for many types of businesses that use pickup trucks.
If you have a fleet of 10 pickup trucks, the savings could be significant.
Checked Autotrader and a typical Crew Cab truck like a F150 STARTS around $46k (and that's the base version with the lame 2.7 liter turbo engine). Estimated monthly payment on that truck is $600 if financed for 72 months. The payment on the Cybertruck is $900. If the company uses each truck for 55k miles per year, their monthly gas expense at current gas prices of $3.65 (national average) is $929 per truck per month. For 10 trucks, that's $9290 per month in gas expense. The average cost of electricity in the US is 15 cents per kwh. At 2.5 miles per kwh, the monthly cost for electricity per truck per month is $275. That's a $654 savings per month. For the first 72 months, the saving is only $354 PER TRUCK, $3540 for 10 trucks. After 72 months, the savings is $654 per truck per month or $7848 per truck per year or $78480 of savings for all 10 trucks per year.

"A fleet of 10 trucks"

Your argument is really that a local lawncare business is going to go buy a million dollars worth of trucks to "save money"? I'd love to see the facilities that this lawncare business has to park and charge their fleet of "trucks" every night.

Are you f**king serious?

[LATB]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

"A fleet of 10 trucks"

Your argument is really that a local lawncare business is going to go buy a million dollars worth of trucks to "save money"?

Are you f**king serious?

His post with all that math is pretzel logic.
Bottom line is one can buy a 1/2 ton truck and pay for a lifetime of fuel for the cost of the cyber truck.

[LATB]

And BTW
When that 1/2 ton truck is 10-15 years old and beat up it will still be of value to someone on a small budget. The EV “truck” will be in the landfill next to its microwave cousin.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by LATB

His post with all that math is pretzel logic.
Bottom line is one can buy a 1/2 ton truck and pay for a lifetime of fuel for the cost of the cyber truck.

I really just want to see the facilities that this local lawn care business has to house and charge its fleet of cyber"trucks".

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by LATB

His post with all that math is pretzel logic.

Starting with the fact that the entire argument somehow revolves around a local business simultaneously financing 10 brand new trucks for 72 months and driving each of them 55k miles per year.

Because that's definitely how "lawncare fleets" (or any other business) works.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Most businesses won't need 500+ mile range..

Lawncare businesses usually handle local areas.. Even around here, a lawncare business in Tampa won't cut my lawn here in Lakeland which is only 25 miles away. I have to get a local lawncare business.
Even AC companies in Tampa usually don't come to Lakeland. This goes for many types of businesses that use pickup trucks.

...

If the company uses each truck for 55k miles per year

Let's look at a few parts of this "math".

Your argument is that lawncare businesses are very local. You follow that by saying that each truck drives 55k miles per year. There are 250 working days in a year.

Your argument is that EVERY TRUCK drives 220 miles per day, every work day of the year, 550k miles per year across 10 trucks... while never going more than 25 miles from "home". Is that really your argument? 220 miles per day per truck. Since that equals about 5 hours per day driving and of course a lunch break, when do you suppose they are actually working?

How much does this lawncare business pay for insurance on 10 Cyber"trucks" vs a fleet of F150s? How much are the facilities to house and charge the cybertrucks vs. what is needed to house a fleet of F150s? How much do tires cost for the "trucks" vs. the F150? As usual, you have cherry picked a few things and twisted the shit out of it to try to support your idiotic narrative.

Let's say that it actually was a company that drove 55k miles per year. What happens on year 3 when your "trucks" are out of warranty? What do they do for year 4?

Math is clearly not your thing.

Is it really your argument that a lawncare business will save $78,000 PER YEAR by using cyber"trucks" instead of fleet F-150s? You can't actually be that ignorant.

Originally Posted by LATB

And BTW
When that 1/2 ton truck is 10-15 years old and beat up it will still be of value to someone on a small budget. The EV “truck” will be in the landfill next to its microwave cousin.

Yes indeed, that 10-15 year old 1/2 ton truck will be bought by a lawncare company that is actually interested in saving money.

[Kevin68]

@ 55K/year it's questionable that either truck will survive it's last loan payment.

[RedLS1GTO]

Now let's look at another part of this "math":

Since you decided to inflate the mileage to 55k per year to try to fudge the gas cost numbers, what you failed to realize that 55k miles per year, 220 miles per day is not happening with a lawncare trailer in a "truck" without a charge... oops.

What that means is that they will without question have to stop and charge it for at least an hour every single day. Let's also not forget to add the time and mileage to drive to wherever you can actually charge it. Let's add the cost of paying to charge it every day. Let's add the time to disconnect and reconnect your trailer every day (to actually get into a charger). Drive time, parking, and unhooking/reattaching is at minimum another 30 minutes.

10 trucks, At LEAST 15+ hours of operational availability lost per day. Not only have you now lost 15 hours of jobs, you also got to pay every worker who is sitting doing nothing in addition to adding 10 paid charges per day.

Math.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

@ 55K/year it's questionable that either truck will survive it's last loan payment.

He had to make it 55k miles per year to add enough gas cost to make the idiotic argument come out positive for the EV.

Ignoring for a moment that no 55k mile per year business would ever finance a fleet in that manner, if you go out to year 4, I'd sure as hell rather pay to maintain and use a 150k mile F150 than a 150k mile Cyber"truck".

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Let's look at a few parts of this "math".

Your argument is that lawncare businesses are very local. You follow that by saying that each truck drives 55k miles per year. There are 250 working days in a year.

Your argument is that EVERY TRUCK drives 220 miles per day, every work day of the year, 550k miles per year across 10 trucks... while never going more than 25 miles from "home". Is that really your argument? 220 miles per day per truck. Since that equals about 5 hours per day driving and of course a lunch break, when do you suppose they are actually working?

How much does this lawncare business pay for insurance on 10 Cyber"trucks" vs a fleet of F150s? How much are the facilities to house and charge the cybertrucks vs. what is needed to house a fleet of F150s? How much do tires cost for the "trucks" vs. the F150? As usual, you have cherry picked a few things and twisted the shit out of it to try to support your idiotic narrative.

Let's say that it actually was a company that drove 55k miles per year. What happens on year 3 when your "trucks" are out of warranty? What do they do for year 4?

Math is clearly not your thing.

Is it really your argument that a lawncare business will save $78,000 PER YEAR by using cyber"trucks" instead of fleet F-150s? You can't actually be that ignorant.



Yes indeed, that 10-15 year old 1/2 ton truck will be bought by a lawncare company that is actually interested in saving money.

Many businesses work 7 days per week. I see the lawncare trucks in my neighborhood on weekends as well.. Businesses have commercial power service and that should easiliy handle 10 tesla wall connectors. No issues keeping them charged up. Lawncare businesses drive a lot around town and that's where EV's are most efficient unlike gas trucks which are more efficient on the highway and their efficiency sucks in town. I bet that most lawncare company trucks drive at least 150 miles per day from customer to customer in the local area. Again, local driving at lower city speeds is really ideal for truck efficiency. Teslas can last a very long time if properly taken care off. Especially at a business where they are charged daily, that should not be an issue. The new 4680 cells should last over 500k miles Also, your fleet of F150 will need oil chances all the time. No maintenance on Cybertrucks. BTW, construction often goes on 7 days per week as well. It's not like an office job where you work Monday to Friday.
Even companies like plumbers work on weekends (and they charge a lot extra for those).