The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread - Page 92

Kevin68 · 03-22-2024, 11:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptindall

Yeah, come on Kevin, read what Aero types. He doesn't want any new laws, he just wants to assault and murder people!

History has shown violence to be far easier than legislation. I fear we are heading there and I'm not liking my odds.

ptindall · 03-22-2024, 11:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Why does it matter HOW or WHY the prices rose?

Its very hard to try to follow your logic. Are you claiming that Biden is a free market hero because prices rose?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

All it takes is for the egg suppliers to get together and make it so.

That's already illegal. You're attempting to bash the free market with an example of breaking the law to get around the free market.

Kevin68 · 03-22-2024, 11:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Such trust and a Utopian view of pricing practices.

Sure, it's all fine and on the up and up. It is what it is right? May as well vote for fkn Joe Biden since market values are what they are. Why would we want Trump to fk it all up by halting inflation. Fk inflation. That's the FREE MARKET, baby !!

I'm laughing that no one believes there is any such thing as price gouging.

I'm laughing because you have no clue how prices are determined in a free market.

Or what causes inflation.

Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders support your position.

Kevin68 · 03-22-2024, 11:41am

This is exhausting.

Ptindall and Red, you wanna go get a beer? Steve_R can join us when he wakes up and LATB can too when he's finished tractoring.

Aerovette · 03-22-2024, 11:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptindall

Its very hard to try to follow your logic. Are you claiming that Biden is a free market hero because prices rose?

That's already illegal. Your attempting to bash the free market with an example of breaking the law to get around the free market.

Why on this earth would that be illegal? Manipulating the market is the definition of free market. The MARKET, decides if the manipulation is too much.

All sarcasm aside, surely you are not blind to the fact that even items that had ZERO cost increase, now have a price increase simply "because". If a stick of gum has been the same price since 1995 and then everything around the gum business is going up and up and up, do you seriously think the gum guys aren't going to raise their price just to get on the bandwagon? And when gum company A does it, then B, C, and D will follow and you are not going to tell me that would EVER end up in court.

In addition, you should SERIOUSLY watch Super Size Me 2: Holy Chicken! and come back and tell me there's no market manipulation.

I'm going to remove price gouging from my vocabulary now that I have been informed there is no such thing.

Yes, Biden is a free market hero. Look what he has done to increase the revenue stream !!

LATB · 03-22-2024, 11:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadInNc

Biden trying to get rid of trucks. Sure……

From WSJ 3/22

This is a great video on the topic

Aerovette · 03-22-2024, 11:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin68

I'm laughing because you have no clue how prices are determined in a free market.

Or what causes inflation.

Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders support your position.

Is it really inflation? With my newfound knowledge, I see it as a market adjustment. We are now recalibrated. $3.09 a gallon is the new normal. It's the new 98 cents a gallon. It's all fine. The market says so. People haven't stopped buying gas, so why not go to $10.00 a gallon? Let's see how high we can get gas prices before there is an actual drop in consumption, then we'll back it down 5 cents and...WINNING.

Aerovette · 03-22-2024, 11:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin68

I'm laughing because you have no clue how prices are determined in a free market.

Or what causes inflation.

Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders support your position.

I sure as shit do. I've spent the last 20 years of my working life discussing pricing of products I've sold. It had VERY little to do with cost or cost increases. It had VERY little to do with inflation either.

GrandSportC3 · 03-22-2024, 11:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LATB

And that is exactly what car dealers do. Why is it ok for you but not for them?

Fair market price on a car is MSRP.
I'm not really opposed of dealers marking up cars but they should be required to post the ACTUAL price after mark ups in their ads instead of posting misleading ads with fake prices.
You know very well that the INTENTION of advertising a fake price with lots of small print in the ad is misleading. That's by DESIGN. They want to CONFUSE people to believe that the price is the actual price that they pay IN ORDER TO GET THEM TO THE DEALERSHIP so that they can bamboozle them with their sales game. I wasn't born yesterday and I don't fall for those games but unfortunately, many people do. It's the SAME EXACT REASON by some dealers list cars at a cheap price that were sold a while ago. It's to get people into the dealership so that they can bamboozle them with their sales game. The average IQ of car buyers is often not very high and those snakes take advantage of that. It's disgusting to me.

Kevin68 · 03-22-2024, 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Why on this earth would that be illegal? Manipulating the market is the definition of free market. The MARKET, decides if the manipulation is too much.

All sarcasm aside, surely you are not blind to the fact that even items that had ZERO cost increase, now have a price increase simply "because". If a stick of gum has been the same price since 1995 and then everything around the gum business is going up and up and up, do you seriously think the gum guys aren't going to raise their price just to get on the bandwagon? And when gum company A does it, then B, C, and D will follow and you are not going to tell me that would EVER end up in court.

In addition, you should SERIOUSLY watch Super Size Me 2: Holy Chicken! and come back and tell me there's no market manipulation.

I'm going to remove price gouging from my vocabulary now that I have been informed there is no such thing.

Yes, Biden is a free market hero. Look what he has done to increase the revenue stream !!

WOW, just WOW.

If gum A raises prices, and gum B and C follow suit, does it not occur to you that Gum D might enjoy the higher market share from their lower price point? Or is this Big Gum conspiracy?

GrandSportC3 · 03-22-2024, 11:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

"Libertarian"

OK. What's the penalty for someone posting a "misleading" advertisement? "Misleading" of course being something that clearly spells out exactly what is happening but is somehow beyond your crayon and construction paper comprehension level.

Protecting customers should be supported by any and all political parties. Selling things based on supply and demand is one thing but intentionally misleading people is another thing. Customers should be protected from predatory practices, not the free market.

Kevin68 · 03-22-2024, 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I sure as shit do. I've spent the last 20 years of my working life discussing pricing of products I've sold. It had VERY little to do with cost or cost increases. It had VERY little to do with inflation either.

I almost agree with you. Almost because cost of inputs (materials labor, etc.) do matter but I agree they are not the sole determinant of price. So why did prices rise?

We're almost there, I can feel it.

ptindall · 03-22-2024, 12:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Manipulating the market is the definition of free market.

False.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

All sarcasm aside, surely you are not blind to the fact that even items that had ZERO cost increase, now have a price increase simply "because".

Prices have increased as a result of inflation. Inflation is a reduction in the value of the money, not an increase in the value of products.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

If a stick of gum has been the same price since 1995 and then everything around the gum business is going up and up and up, do you seriously think the gum guys aren't going to raise their price just to get on the bandwagon?

They have to in order to retain their profit margins because the money itself is worth less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

And when gum company A does it, then B, C, and D will follow and you are not going to tell me that would EVER end up in court.

If A raises their prices for no reason, just because they got, "greedy" one day, B, C, and D will happily watch A lose all it's market share and go out of business while they gain market share and collect more total profit as a result.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

In addition, you should SERIOUSLY watch Super Size Me 2: Holy Chicken! and come back and tell me there's no market manipulation.

No. Sounds like a Micheal Moore type movie. He seems like someone you would get along with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I'm going to remove price gouging from my vocabulary now that I have been informed there is no such thing.

Good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Yes, Biden is a free market hero. Look what he has done to increase the revenue stream !!

Are you claiming Joe Biden's policies have helped American business as a whole? And you want Trump to come in and hurt American business?

RedLS1GTO · 03-22-2024, 12:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Protecting customers should be supported by any and all political parties. Selling things based on supply and demand is one thing but intentionally misleading people is another thing. Customers should be protected from predatory practices, not the free market.

They already are.

“Libertarian” 🤣

Steve_R · 03-22-2024, 12:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I've not been part of the car pricing exchange that has gone on here, but it really is simple. Put the price on the car. Customer buys it, or does not. I don't need to know what each option costs. IDGAS. I either want the clear coat protection, or I don't. I'd like to know what options are on the vehicle, but what they cost is meaningless.

What I don't like is the bullshit airlines, tire stores, concert ticket sellers, and everyone else does, of selling you something that is $100.00 and paying $300.00 by the time they add their bullshit on. Just say it's $300.00 and be done with it.

Car prices are negotiable. They always have been. Apparently you’re in favor of making them fixed and non-negotiable. I’m not.

I buy lots of airline tickets. Got an example of the “bullshit” they add on to the ticket price? I’ll wait.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I'm laughing that no one believes there is any such thing as price gouging.

Price gouging is subjective. Who gets to decide what’s gouging vs. market pricing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin68

This is exhausting.

Ptindall and Red, you wanna go get a beer? Steve_R can join us when he wakes up and LATB can too when he's finished tractoring.

I’m in. I’ll buy the first round while we laugh at the totalitarian socialists among us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Fair market price on a car is MSRP.

WRONG! The S stands for Suggested. Do you honestly not know what “suggested” means?

GrandSportC3 · 03-22-2024, 12:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin68

Gov't created the shortage.

So is "fair" the most someone is willing to pay or the least?

Fair market rent is a guide posted by government for each area. Most of my rents are at or below fair market rent.

Anyways, I'm not opposed for anyone charging more AS LONG AS THEY DON'T PLAY GAMES TO HIDE WHAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY CHARGING.

It's like advertising a house for rent for $1400 per month. There is a small print at the add that says that (Rent includes a $200 discount for first responders)
Now, let's say that the prospective tenants don't see the small print with the asterisk and they sign the contract which is 10 pages long and somewhere in those 10 pages, it says in small print that "an additional monthly charge of $200 applies for someone who is not a first responder".
MOST people don't read all 10 pages of the contract. I'm a Landlord, and never, ever anyone really reads the entire lease before signing it..
Legally, I can charge the $1600 instead of $1400 because they signed it without completely reading it. So, I created LEGALLY an additional $200 income becuase I embedded that little detail deep into the contract that they didn't fully read and at the end of the contract, there is a disclaimer that "By signing this, I have read and understand the contract"....
Is it legal to do that?? Probably is.. Is it ethical?? NOPE.. Same goes for sleazy car dealerships..

Aerovette · 03-22-2024, 12:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Fair market price on a car is MSRP.
I'm not really opposed of dealers marking up cars but they should be required to post the ACTUAL price after mark ups in their ads instead of posting misleading ads with fake prices.
You know very well that the INTENTION of advertising a fake price with lots of small print in the ad is misleading. That's by DESIGN. They want to CONFUSE people to believe that the price is the actual price that they pay IN ORDER TO GET THEM TO THE DEALERSHIP so that they can bamboozle them with their sales game. I wasn't born yesterday and I don't fall for those games but unfortunately, many people do. It's the SAME EXACT REASON by some dealers list cars at a cheap price that were sold a while ago. It's to get people into the dealership so that they can bamboozle them with their sales game. The average IQ of car buyers is often not very high and those snakes take advantage of that. It's disgusting to me.

I disagree. I see this in regard to the place where I have my timeshare. People listen to what the saleshole says and don't read what the contract says. Then they are all butthurt because something popped up later that is IN THE CONTRACT but contrary to what they were verbally told. That's on them.

GrandSportC3 · 03-22-2024, 12:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin68

Thanks for clearing that up. That's very transparent of you.

It doesn't matter what the price is as long as the dealer is upfront about the REAL price.
My suggestion is not to stop them from overcharging. What I want is for them not to be allowed to hide the real price. No ads that just say MSRP without listing the sales price.. without listing dealer add ons.. without reducing the price by discounts that virtually nobody gets etc..
What I suggest is to stop the practice of misleading consumers.