The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

It’s as if you completely ignored my post because your reply doesn’t address my point.

And every new car is worth a fraction of what the buyer paid.

Btw-
What is your position on those private sellers who sold during the shortage and run up of used pricing for more than they paid in many cases.

I do think that I addressed it.. They would have made more by just charging MSRP instead of selling well below MSRP. They didn't need to go overboard and charge a 5 digit mark up.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by sublime1996525

Kind of like your X.

Sure, but I knew that going in. Model S has been the worst value retention of any Tesla followed by the Model X. I did not buy the car as an investment and I expected to lose tons of value on it. I may keep it until 149k miles to get as much out of the car as I can before I'll sell it.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

You are probably ok with gas stations charging $10 per gallon before a Hurricane hits, right?? It's virtually the same to me. Everyone wants to fill up before the storm and gas stations ran out of gas. Therefore, gas stations ended up gouging the prices, charging an outrageous price. Luckily here in Florida, legislation stepped in and prohibited that.. They should pass a bill prohibiting price gouging when it comes to new cars as well.

How can you consider yourself a capitalist and want more legislation to create more government control?

Fuel during a hurricane is a public safety issue. New cars are not.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

How is it a “fake price”?

A conditional price. You should not be allowed to list a price that has a condition apply to it. They should advertise the real price and then offer discounts based on certain criteria. There should be truth in advertising.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I do think that I addressed it.. They would have made more by just charging MSRP instead of selling well below MSRP. They didn't need to go overboard and charge a 5 digit mark up.

What part of the “suggested” in MSRP do you not understand?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

How can you consider yourself a capitalist and want more legislation to create more government control?

Fuel during a hurricane is a public safety issue. New cars are not.

There is something called ethics. Businesses should be forced to abide by certain ethics codes.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

A conditional price. You should not be allowed to list a price that has a condition apply to it. They should advertise the real price and then offer discounts based on certain criteria. There should be truth in advertising.

The criteria that you want is right there in print.
I don’t know why this is such a big deal to you.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

The criteria that you want is right there in print.
I don’t know why this is such a big deal to you.

Dealers know that many buyers don't read the fine print.. You see a car online and you like the price, you go to the dealership to buy it. I really don't have a problem with dealers marking up cars as much as I have a problem about them lying about it and wasting people's time. Advertising low priced cars that sold a while ago is unethical as is misleading people with fine print that nobody reads. If you upfront advertise the ACTUAL price, I have no problem as I can easily filter those out when doing a search by price.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

You are probably ok with gas stations charging $10 per gallon before a Hurricane hits, right?? It's virtually the same to me. Everyone wants to fill up before the storm and gas stations ran out of gas. Therefore, gas stations ended up gouging the prices, charging an outrageous price. Luckily here in Florida, legislation stepped in and prohibited that.. They should pass a bill prohibiting price gouging when it comes to new cars as well.

Virtually the same = not the same. But nice try.

How very socialist of you.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I do think that I addressed it.. They would have made more by just charging MSRP instead of selling well below MSRP. They didn't need to go overboard and charge a 5 digit mark up.

If you don't want to pay over MSRP, don't.

Socialist.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Sure, but I knew that going in. Model S has been the worst value retention of any Tesla followed by the Model X. I did not buy the car as an investment and I expected to lose tons of value on it. I may keep it until 149k miles to get as much out of the car as I can before I'll sell it.

You... knew it going in? So your argument is that the people who bought cars at that point in time for some reason didn't? The argument is that people buying cars at a point where demand far exceeded supply and market values were far above their normal levels... didn't know that they were going to lose money and somehow, that is the dealers responsibility?

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

A conditional price. You should not be allowed to list a price that has a condition apply to it. They should advertise the real price and then offer discounts based on certain criteria. There should be truth in advertising.

There is truth in advertising. You quite literally f**king quoted the explanations in each of those listings as to how the price is determined.

Holy shit. They do post the "real" price. It's right f**king here. If you are too stupid to figure that out, I feel genuinely sorry for you.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Dealers know that many buyers don't read the fine print.. You see a car online and you like the price, you go to the dealership to buy it. I really don't have a problem with dealers marking up cars as much as I have a problem about them lying about it and wasting people's time. Advertising low priced cars that sold a while ago is unethical as is misleading people with fine print that nobody reads. If you upfront advertise the ACTUAL price, I have no problem as I can easily filter those out when doing a search by price.

Just to clarify, your argument is really that you're too lazy to actually read the listing.

Also, the stupid ass argument of "advertising cars that sold" is a perfect example of you having something explained to you in very simple terms that you were either unwilling or incapable of comprehending at even the most basic level.

[RedLS1GTO]

I actually had to go back and read that again to make sure I wasn't hallucinating.

Let's walk through this. The dealer gives a description of how the price is derived at a level that my 7 year old could understand. You, don't bother read said description and in turn say they're "lying" when they do exactly what they described in the listing. As a bonus, because you lack the ability to actually understand anything that they have clearly spelled out, they are unethical and misleading.

Do I have that right?

Holy shit. That is some next level dumbassery.

Although as I think about it, this really does fall right in line with the inability to comprehend anything beyond horsepower when it comes to performance.

This is not a dealer problem. This is a you problem.

[GTOguy]

Bottom line: if EV's were the answer, people would be fighting each other to get them. They would NOT have to be government subsidized/ incentivized. The very fact that people have to get paid to purchase them is the same grift that is used in the solar panel industry. It's bullshit, and those of us who aren't asleep at the wheel know it.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

Bottom line: if EV's were the answer, people would be fighting each other to get them. They would NOT have to be government subsidized/ incentivized. The very fact that people have to get paid to purchase them is the same grift that is used in the solar panel industry. It's bullshit, and those of us who aren't asleep at the wheel know it.

GOV has been BROKE since before I was born.
Please change your sentence to 'taxpayer incentivized'.
Thanks.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Because that's not the price you pay if you don't have a trade (for which they will give you crap and if you don't finance with them for a high rate)
Actual price is advertised price +$3k

I've literally looked at thousands of ads, and this dealer seems to be "up front in the fine print." You read through it, realized that you aren't going to finance or trade in, did your own calculation, and found what YOUR price might be, assuming no other fine print. So you read the ad, understood immediately that the sales price was + $ 3K. Is it still the lowest price for that car you have found? Call and see if that's the true price, or there's other packs not listed. If the ad price, plus the $ 3K they're notifying you up front is added to the price, makes this not an attractive deal for you, move along. Simple.

I don't think that's deceptive.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

There is something called ethics. Businesses should be forced to abide by certain ethics codes.

You have not pointed to any ethical violations.

And you want to legislate ethics?

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Dealers know that many buyers don't read the fine print.. You see a car online and you like the price, you go to the dealership to buy it. I really don't have a problem with dealers marking up cars as much as I have a problem about them lying about it and wasting people's time. Advertising low priced cars that sold a while ago is unethical as is misleading people with fine print that nobody reads. If you upfront advertise the ACTUAL price, I have no problem as I can easily filter those out when doing a search by price.

“Fine print” has become a cultural cliche. One would think that every adult knows this. And especially concerning large ticket items.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by LATB

The criteria that you want is right there in print.
I don’t know why this is such a big deal to you.

It's not even fine print. It is right there on the top of the page in the same font as everything else.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by LATB

You have not pointed to any ethical violations.

And you want to legislate ethics?

...and regulate auto prices, and allow the .gov manipulate the market...

[Bill]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

Bottom line: if EV's were the answer, people would be fighting each other to get them. They would NOT have to be government subsidized/ incentivized. The very fact that people have to get paid to purchase them is the same grift that is used in the solar panel industry. It's bullshit, and those of us who aren't asleep at the wheel know it.

Same thing with rooftop solar systems. If they really provided a good ROI, then people would want them without .gov subsidization. I don't subscribe to the global warming/climate change bullshit, but if I could drop money on a solar system and have that investment pay off, I would have already done it. As it is, there's too much future uncertainty. How will my insurance premiums be effected? What's it going to cost me to have my roof replaced, extra, because the panels will have to be R&I'd? What will the power provider agreements look like going forward? How much will I be spending in repair costs when the system installer/maker goes belly up like Solyndra?

Will the panels make my roof more susceptible to storm damage? And the big thing is, in order to get the intangible benefit of having power when my utility service is interrupted, I'll have to buy one or more absurdly expensive batteries that will at some point, go bad and have to be disposed of. How much will that cost, and how does that impact recovering my investment, much less any ROI, assuming I ever break even.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by LATB

I recommend not buying a car over the phone. And if you do get a quote over the phone, I sure as heck would request a written quote before I drove 80 miles to finalize the deal.

However, the fact that you need to effectively get a written contract from a Stealership before going to look at a car only reinforces GSC3's point: Stealerships are lying asshole pieces of shit.