Whats going on in WI?

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

Was Abraham Lincoln referring to labor in general or to the actual organization of unions?

One does not doubt the usefulness of unions at their outset due to poor working conditions, but with theonset of OSHA and other federal protections, are such organizations needed?

Wouldn't you rather be judged upon your own merits?

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by Entropy

Was Abraham Lincoln referring to labor in general or to the actual organization of unions?

One does not doubt the usefulness of unions at their outset due to poor working conditions, but with theonset of OSHA and other federal protections, are such organizations needed?

Wouldn't you rather be judged upon your own merits?

what does abolishing collective bargaining rights have to do with balancing the budget?

[thkauffman]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

what does abolishing collective bargaining rights have to do with balancing the budget?

Uh, who said anything about that?

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

what does abolishing collective bargaining rights have to do with balancing the budget?

Based on my experiences in higher ed, I'd rather be judged on my own merits than those of my coworkers. serious.

Likely it's a way to save money by not rewarding those who do a basal level of work, i.e. sit in the same place and collect their pay advancement based on time served, rather than work done.

[Y2Kvert4me]

Originally Posted by Entropy

Wouldn't you rather be judged upon your own merits?

No need to impress when there is no reward for excellence.

Reason #1 I'd never work for a union. The lowest common denominator sets the standard.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

what does abolishing collective bargaining rights have to do with balancing the budget?

Well, it certainly makes it easier to balance future budgets.

Think about the airlines. They go to and sometimes beyond the brink of bankruptcy because they hemorage money when times are bad and their unions aren't willing to give concessions until the last minute or not at all.

It would be so much easier to tell state employees, "hey, times are tough, we have to cut your benefits a few % this year when times are bad, and restore the cuts when times are good, if warranted, rather than fight it out with threats of sick-outs, slow downs (like we saw with the snow removal in NYC), etc.

In the types of businesses I have worked for in the past, you take what is offered or you don't. You don't like the terms, quit, or negotiate something different, based on your own personal worth to the company.

You and I both know there are probably going to be some Houston area teachers that will be let go because of budget cuts that would be happy to go take those Wisconsin jobs, and make way more than they do here while doing those Wisconsin jobs.

[Truck Guy]

Originally Posted by Y2Kvert4me

No need to impress when there is no reward for excellence.

Reason #1 I'd never work for a union. The lowest common denominator sets the standard.

Want to be mediocre the rest of your career, join a union.

If you're a hard worker, you'll be in trouble for setting the bar too high.

If you're a slug, no problem.

These people shouldn't be protected, they should be fired.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by thkauffman

Uh, who said anything about that?

Uhhhh,
what do you think is going on in WI? do you really think it's just all about the budget?

[Truck Guy]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

Uhhhh,
what do you think is going on in WI? do you really think it's just all about the budget?

Of course not. But both sides have used the majority vote to cram legislation the other side hates down their collective throats.
Happens all the time. Remember the National Health Care scenario???

Imagine if the Republicans had pulled the same spineless stunt and snuck away in the dead of night, whining and crying about how unfair the vote would be.

The WI Dems need to go back and do their job even if it means being defeated. It's their job.

One talking head on the news called them "heroes" for standing up for what they feel is the right thing to do.

Sorry, I've never known a "hero" that runs away from anything.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Well, it certainly makes it easier to balance future budgets.

Think about the airlines. They go to and sometimes beyond the brink of bankruptcy because they hemorage money when times are bad and their unions aren't willing to give concessions until the last minute or not at all.

It would be so much easier to tell state employees, "hey, times are tough, we have to cut your benefits a few % this year when times are bad, and restore the cuts when times are good, if warranted, rather than fight it out with threats of sick-outs, slow downs (like we saw with the snow removal in NYC), etc.

In the types of businesses I have worked for in the past, you take what is offered or you don't. You don't like the terms, quit, or negotiate something different, based on your own personal worth to the company.

You and I both know there are probably going to be some Houston area teachers that will be let go because of budget cuts that would be happy to go take those Wisconsin jobs, and make way more than they do here while doing those Wisconsin jobs.

oh hell,it will make a lot of things "easier." it'll make it a lot easier to bust the unions. it's not about a budget. it's all just politics & taking us back to the PATCO days. WI had a balanced budget until the money was given away & it sure wasn't given to union workers. the NYC slowdown was highly overblown & misrepresented. crews were laid off & equipment idled. the storm was a giant freak that caught everyone with their pants down. the airlines do just fine as long as the price of fuel is low. those Houston area teachers might have kept their jobs if Gov. Good Hair hadn't blown $$ like a drunken sailor on idiocy like the Trans Texas Corridor.

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

oh hell,it will make a lot of things "easier." it'll make it a lot easier to bust the unions. it's not about a budget. it's all just politics & taking us back to the PATCO days. WI had a balanced budget until the money was given away & it sure wasn't given to union workers. the NYC slowdown was highly overblown & misrepresented. crews were laid off & equipment idled. the storm was a giant freak that caught everyone with their pants down. the airlines do just fine as long as the price of fuel is low. those Houston area teachers might have kept their jobs if Gov. Good Hair hadn't blown $$ like a drunken sailor on idiocy like the Trans Texas Corridor.

See America year 1920 ...

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by Truck Guy

Of course not. But both sides have used the majority vote to cram legislation the other side hates down their collective throats.
Happens all the time. Remember the National Health Care scenario???

Imagine if the Republicans had pulled the same spineless stunt and snuck away in the dead of night, whining and crying about how unfair the vote would be.

The WI Dems need to go back and do their job even if it means being defeated. It's their job.

One talking head on the news called them "heroes" for standing up for what they feel is the right thing to do.

Sorry, I've never known a "hero" that runs away from anything.

what's the difference in what they did & fillerbustering?

[ChasC5]

I think they should come back to work, vote, and let the chips fall where tbey may.

No different than any other elections, there's always Winners and Loosrs.

Winners rejoice and Loosers regroup.

This it suppose to be a majority rule of voting democracy.

Just remember, what's Good for the Goose is Good for th Gander.

We can't go militant or Tea Party every time things don't go your way.

[Z06PDQ]

[Y2Kvert4me]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

That and $3 will buy ya a beer.

[Z06PDQ]

The President Finally Speaks Up

"Workers have a right to organize into unions and to bargain collectively with their employers. And a strong, free labor movement is an invigorating and necessary part of our industrial society."

"Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of their right to join the union of their choice."

"Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history."

There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things, but their number is negligible and they are stupid."

Republican President Dwight Eisenhower

[Truck Guy]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

what's the difference in what they did & fillerbustering?

No one ran away in Washington.

Washington Repubs filibustering = a legal tactic both sides have used.

Wisconsin Dems running away = WAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa

Oh, and it's spelled "filibustering"

Spell check is your friend...

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by Y2Kvert4me

That and $3 will buy ya a beer.

Where is my Beer big spender?

[Truck Guy]

Originally Posted by ChasC5

I think they should come back to work, vote, and let the chips fall where tbey may.

No different than any other elections, there's always Winners and Loosrs.

Winners rejoice and Loosers regroup.

This it suppose to be a majority rule of voting democracy.

Just remember, what's Good for the Goose is Good for th Gander.

We can't go militant or Tea Party every time things don't go your way.

Thank you Chas

[Y2Kvert4me]

Originally Posted by ChasC5

Where is my Beer big spender?

Sorry, $7.50 in IL.

Thank the union guys for that.