Minimum wage

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Minimum wage was enacted sometime in the '30's (Too lazy to look it up. Furthermore I don't give that much of a shit) to protect workers ESPECIALLY women from being exploited by shitty business's.

And before you jump to any conclusions, I think the minimum wage laws are ridiculous.

[NeedSpeed]

Originally Posted by VITE1

You're not suppose to support a family on Minimum wage. You are suppose to get educated and skilled enough to move up the food chain.

Well, minimum wage sure as hell isn't going to pay for education and most jobs that pay minimum sure as hell ain't going to earn you any skills that let you move up the chain.

I think the original intent was to stop corporations for paying ridiculously low wages, because hey, if some moron will work 80 hours a week for $1 and hour, why not? It's the free market right?

[Loco Vette]

Originally Posted by VITE1

A Short History of the Minimum Wage Fight - NationalJournal.com

That article was useful, but I still don't think it touches on the issues that minimum wage was supposed to address, but it did demonstrate that there was bipartisan support and shows the power of the Supreme Court if their ideology is all aimed in the same direction (A point worth keeping in mind for the next 3 11/12ths years)

That being said, if someone can point me to an authoritative source that indicates that it was enacted to insure that all workers could raise a family, I would like to see it.

[Loco Vette]

Originally Posted by NeedSpeed

I think the original intent was to stop corporations for paying ridiculously low wages, because hey, if some moron will work 80 hours a week for $1 and hour, why not? It's the free market right?

Speaking from experience and the philosophy that we try to run our company with, when it comes to employees there is an element of "you get what you pay for" and it is very valuable to look at the costs associated with pisspoor output.

[vetteman9368]

Originally Posted by Thomas

That's not the point. My comment was that the minimum wage WAS NOT intended for kids, retirees and part time work. vetteman9368 is rong.

For the record I never said that was the intent. However today in 2013 that's the end result

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by NeedSpeed

Well, minimum wage sure as hell isn't going to pay for education and most jobs that pay minimum sure as hell ain't going to earn you any skills that let you move up the chain.

I think the original intent was to stop corporations for paying ridiculously low wages, because hey, if some moron will work 80 hours a week for $1 and hour, why not? It's the free market right?

ReallY?

I started as a dishwasher at Minimum wage. Moved over to MacDonald's. After 2 years I moved up to management. I left because I made more money as a janitor.

The original intenet was to make sure that Unions could flurish ( look at the vid I posted)

Corporations will pay you as little as they can since they want to keep the profit. If you have no skill and little education you are SOL and Min wage laws look good to you.

[NeedSpeed]

Originally Posted by Loco Vette

T
That being said, if someone can point me to an authoritative source that indicates that it was enacted to insure that all workers could raise a family, I would like to see it.

I don't think that was ever the intent.

But we're human, so we try to put limits on free market. If an unskilled couple has a kid, and only the father can work, what is society to do? The pure free market would say who cares, that's their problem. Should they be given a free ride? No.

There is no right answer, only a murky line. Much like abortion or other topics with no perfect answer.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by Will

FYI you guys should not be looking at minimum wage in a vacuum, but rather the reality that as a society we have chosen, and will continue to choose, to ensure some bare minimum subsistence level.

A minimum wage hike is a hell of a lot better than government taxation and spending on "income security"

That being said, if you want some hard statistical data, I just happened to be throwing together a spreadsheet on this topic last night.

REAL Federal Minimum Wage has a weak negative correlation with the Employment-Population Ratio as well as the % Change in REAL GDP per Capita comparing annual data from 1948 through 2008. REAL Minimum Wage has a weak positive correlation with the U3 unemployment rate.

Being weak correlations, this isn't strong evidence that the Austrian school is correct, but it is good evidence that the Keynesian school is wrong.

REAL minimum wage was weakly positively correlated with % change in REAL GDP, but this was super weak compared to the above three, which were all around .3, at a mere .05.

That being said, despite the fact that we're probably right about minimum wage being harmful, I think we can't view it in a vacuum and have to acknowledge that it is much LESS harmful that government taxation and spending on income security. That's much worse.

Given political realities, we should actually be supporting things like minimum wage and EITC, and arguing for more emphasis on them in exchange for defunding actual welfare. Minimum wage and EITC are forms of "work"fare and preferable to welfare.

.02

Just WTF is this post about? Would someone smart clue me in?

[WelderTalk] Turn me down 5, and get on my ground. I'll give you the word [/WelderTalk]

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

The original intenet was to make sure that Unions could flurish

Nope.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by NeedSpeed

I don't think that was ever the intent.

But we're human, so we try to put limits on free market. If an unskilled couple has a kid, and only the father can work, what is society to do? The pure free market would say who cares, that's their problem. Should they be given a free ride? No.

There is no right answer, only a murky line. Much like abortion or other topics with no perfect answer.

Why is it NOT the right answer?

Why are you rewarding stupidity?

Why is it MY responsibility to help them ? Why do I and the millions of others like me who had kids when we could afford them, Stayed in school, worked multiple jobs, Scrimped and saved have to be penalized because someone could not take the time to put on a rubber?

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

However today in 2013 that's the end result

And that's F'd up. You want cable TV, an iPhone, a new Harley, a family? Minimum wage isn't gonna pay for that, nor should it.

[NeedSpeed]

Originally Posted by Loco Vette

Speaking from experience and the philosophy that we try to run our company with, when it comes to employees there is an element of "you get what you pay for" and it is very valuable to look at the costs associated with pisspoor output.

I agree, but 50 years ago it was just cheap labor. Times have changed, the laws not so much.

Originally Posted by VITE1

ReallY?

I started as a dishwasher at Minimum wage. Moved over to MacDonald's. After 2 years I moved up to management. I left because I made more money as a janitor.

The original intenet was to make sure that Unions could flurish ( look at the vid I posted)

Corporations will pay you as little as they can since they want to keep the profit. If you have no skill and little education you are SOL and Min wage laws look good to you.

I'm not saying you can't move up, but in general it's not much of a path. I started at minimum wage as a stock boy in a hardware store. Moved up as well, made a few more dollars an hour, but it sure wasn't going to be career. I guess if I did it long enough I could of managed. I gotta thank my parents for paying for my school, else I'd probably be still there.

I look at my father and he started much the same, washing dishes. Stayed with the same company most of his working life and became a top executive.

You can't do that shit anymore.

I'm not saying raising the minimum wage is a good idea. I think the laws need to be rethought. Times are much different than 50 years ago and as a society companies generally aren't looking draw blood from their employees so I don't think the level of protection is needed.

[Vet4jdc]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Just WTF is this post about? Would someone smart clue me in?

sorry...no one here is qualified.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by VITE1

Milton Friedman on Minimum Wage - YouTube

Originally Posted by Thomas

Nope.

Dr Friedman and I disagree.

[island14]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Just WTF is this post about? Would someone smart clue me in?

[NeedSpeed]

Originally Posted by VITE1

Why is it NOT the right answer?

Why are you rewarding stupidity?

Why is it MY responsibility to help them ? Why do I and the millions of others like me who had kids when we could afford them, Stayed in school, worked multiple jobs, Scrimped and saved have to be penalized because someone could not take the time to put on a rubber?

Are you saying, let the homeless die, it's their problem? Tell them to GTFO off my streets?

There has to be a line. I'm not saying I encourage entitlement. But I think at some level as a society, we're in it together.

Trust me, I paid enough taxes last year to pay someone minimum wage. I'm not happy about that. But, as a teacher, I've seen a lot people that just aren't gonna cut it, no matter what you do.

But, we should just eliminate them I guess.

[Back40]

Originally Posted by island14

Hows things going at your farm/ranch?

I'm lucky to break even most years. The little story I posted is funny, but it's also true. However, I don't pay much in property taxes because I raise livestock, and I have really awesome beef and chicken. I can't buy from the grocery store any more. That food doesn't have flavor like mine. Now if I could just keep the damn coyotes and hawks from killing all my chickens!

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Why is it MY responsibility to help them ?

Because WE, (That includes YOU) are a civilized society. Some people fall on hard times, some make incredibly poor decisions. Personally, I don't mind some of my tax dollars going to help the poor, underprivileged, and people who fall on hard times. But the tit that is Thomas isn't endless either. Thing's have gotten WAY outta hand.

I just don't understand the "Fuck 'em, let them rot" mentality.

[NeedSpeed]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Because WE, (That includes YOU) are a civilized society. Some people fall on hard times, some make incredibly poor decisions. Personally, I don't mind some of my tax dollars going to help the poor, underprivileged, and people who fall on hard times. But the tit that is Thomas isn't endless either. Thing's have gotten WAY outta hand.

I just don't understand the "Fuck 'em, let them rot" mentality.

My point exactly.

There's too much, but there needs to be some.

[island14]

I was happy to get paid minimum wage when I was a teen, I think it was $1.65 an hour..