Edward Sowden leaves Hong Kong...

[Low12s]

Originally Posted by polarbear

Back to the topic at hand...

nothing is perfectly clear to me in this case. Snowden simply verified what many of us have long suspected- our Government has exactly zero respect for the Constitution. Not that this can be a huge surprise, coming on the heels of... well, more scandals than you can count. And then there's the not-small issue of secret agencies, overseen by secret courts, issuing secret warrants and opinions.

Makes me queasy. I can't be the only one. At what point did America turn into this?

TY, my point exactly.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

He used a security clearance to divulge government secrets to foreign governments. That's treason and can be punished by up to death. I think it's important our government be able to keep secrets, and the most extreme possible punishment should be sought...I believe the death penalty should be on the table for this treasonous act.

If people want to divulge secrets, there is a very clear route one can take (through congress). The media in China is not one of those options.

But continuing to have secrets flowing out of our government makes us appear weak as a nation and needs to be dealt with quickly.

You think that us spying on foreign citizens as well as spying on our own people (with no warrant or probable cause, BTW) is OK, but telling the American people what our government has been doing to us is somehow NOT OK?

If, instead of the spying, lets say the US government conspired to club baby harp seals worldwide, and Snowden knew about it. Is he supposed to keep quiet about that? So our government is embarrassed and ashamed. They should be, and we deserve every criticism we get from our allies and others for our illegal behavior.


It boggles my mind why people, instead of dumping on Snowden, are not figuring out how to start bringing the tens of thousands of people to justice who participated in spying on me and you. All those assholes should be facing trials and prison time right now, and that includes the generals, the privates, the secretaries, everyone who knew, but did nothing.


I think our basic disconnect is that whole "my country right or wrong" thing. I don't subscribe to that. I support my country, but when my country acts like the world asshole, don't ask me to stand up and support that.

They spied on me. They spied on you. **** those ****suckers.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

You think that us spying on foreign citizens as well as spying on our own people (with no warrant or probable cause, BTW) is OK, but telling the American people what our government has been doing to us is somehow NOT OK?

If, instead of the spying, lets say the US government conspired to club baby harp seals worldwide, and Snowden knew about it. Is he supposed to keep quiet about that? So our government is embarrassed and ashamed. They should be, and we deserve every criticism we get from our allies and others for our illegal behavior.


It boggles my mind why people, instead of dumping on Snowden, are not figuring out how to start bringing the tens of thousands of people to justice who participated in spying on me and you. All those assholes should be facing trials and prison time right now, and that includes the generals, the privates, the secretaries, everyone who knew, but did nothing.

I feel they're two very separate acts. Do I agree with what the government is doing? Not really

Is running to China with secure documents and computers acceptable. Never.

He should have made attempts to blow whistles through the proper channels first.

[Low12s]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

You think that us spying on foreign citizens as well as spying on our own people (with no warrant or probable cause, BTW) is OK, but telling the American people what our government has been doing to us is somehow NOT OK?

If, instead of the spying, lets say the US government conspired to club baby harp seals worldwide, and Snowden knew about it. Is he supposed to keep quiet about that? So our government is embarrassed and ashamed. They should be, and we deserve every criticism we get from our allies and others for our illegal behavior.


It boggles my mind why people, instead of dumping on Snowden, are not figuring out how to start bringing the tens of thousands of people to justice who participated in spying on me and you. All those assholes should be facing trials and prison time right now, and that includes the generals, the privates, the secretaries, everyone who knew, but did nothing.

You can't reason with him, he is a child.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Low12s

You can't reason with him, he is a child.

Chris is a good guy, even though I happen to vehemently disagree with him about this particular subject.

[Low12s]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Chris is a good guy, even though I happen to vehemently disagree with him about this particular subject.

I rest my case.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Low12s

What a tool.

He used a security clearance to divulge government secrets to foreign governments. That's treason and can be punished by up to death.

Buffer any way you want that let's you think you have a brain.

WOW what he did is treason, treason is punishable by death. He was charged with espionage. I've never mixed these facts. What part are you having trouble comprehending?

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Low12s

You can't reason with him, he is a child.

Can't reason with me? If you could understand the words in front of your face, maybe you could make a logical argument, until then keep trying.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

I feel they're two very separate acts. Do I agree with what the government is doing? Not really

Is running to China with secure documents and computers acceptable. Never.

He should have made attempts to blow whistles through the proper channels first.

The government has demonstrated that it has gone rogue. They just do whatever the Hell they feel like doing. I'm probably looking at being "drone strike'd" just for supporting Snowden. The fact that he fled the country is testament not to his cowardice or ill intent, but more to the pragmatic nature of staying alive. I wouldn't put it past our government to try and Vince Foster Snowden, or, failing that, run a sham of a kangaroo court trial and send him to Supermax. I wouldn't want to stick around for either of those eventualities, either.

[Craig]

I'll throw this out there: it's law enforcement's job to observe what's going on around them and investigate when they see something that looks criminal; a cop walking a beat, a patrol car cruising a neighborhood street...electronic messages flying around the air or on the Internet..?

[JRD77VET]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

I feel they're two very separate acts. Do I agree with what the government is doing? Not really

Is running to China with secure documents and computers acceptable. Never.

He should have made attempts to blow whistles through the proper channels first.

From other stories I've come across, the other channels were virtually worthless. The corruption is from bow to stern. Reporting through proper channels went nowhere.

This is bigger and more extensive than most folks realize.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

The government has demonstrated that it has gone rogue. They just do whatever the Hell they feel like doing. I'm probably looking at being "drone strike'd" just for supporting Snowden. The fact that he fled the country is testament not to his cowardice or ill intent, but more to the pragmatic nature of staying alive. I wouldn't put it past our government to try and Vince Foster Snowden, or, failing that, run a sham of a kangaroo court trial and send him to Supermax. I wouldn't want to stick around for either of those eventualities, either.

Yup I agree our government has run amuck, unfortunately it's what we've got. Bringing secured equipment and secrets to the Chinese doesn't fix the problem at hand, but it certainly complicates foreign relations. Hell he could have contacted the proper channels from a foreign nation without divulging secrets.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by JRD77VET

From other stories I've come across, the other channels were virtually worthless. The corruption is from bow to stern. Reporting through proper channels went nowhere.

This is bigger and more extensive than most folks realize.

But he didnt try them. The last person charged with doing basically the same thing as Snowden wound up with a plea deal for a misdemeanor, had he been properly prosecuted, I don't feel this latest leak would have happened.

[island14]

Just a few weeks ago the US was bitching about China snooping around on the net..

Anyone else notice they shut the hell up... right after this came out?

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by TxAg

Let's say he went through "proper" channels. Do you think he would still be breathing at this point?

Yes.

[sanchez]

Originally Posted by TxAg

Let's say he went through "proper" channels. Do you think he would still be breathing at this point?

In gitmo, or some other detention center.

The false cry that the .gov spying is for national security is bs. Every time they bring that up, the number of attacks the violation of our 4 ammendment has stopped changes.

American citizens are the enemies of the government. All of us are criminals at this point and the .gov can wait to pull you in when they feel the need.

Their ardent suppression of any dissenting voice lends credence to your insinuation TX that this dude would be dead as ****.

[RedLS1GTO]

Stop the name calling shit NOW.

Do it again, be gone.

Simple enough?

[Craig]

Originally Posted by TxAg

Cop walking a beat is a bit different than the government secretly sniffing private networks and working WITH technology companies to get a users' information. All of this w/out probable cause or a warrant.

And the "I have nothing to hide" response is a foolish ignorance.

Nothing is private on the Internet.

[Kerrmudgeon]

So China will engage in massive trade with the west, exchange companies and labor, and enjoy all aspects of western life lately, but will not respect extradition requests?

[island14]

Originally Posted by Kerrmudgeon

So China will engage in massive trade with the west, exchange companies and labor, and enjoy all aspects of western life lately, but will not respect extradition requests?

I noticed the US is getting pissy about that..

I wonder what the Russian and Chinese News has to say when we give one of their citizens a place to stay against their governments wishes..