The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by ptindall

With track days, one could choose to start next to a friend, you could choose to chase each other head to head, or you could choose to compare lap times amoung the many traffic free laps you get in a day. There is no real difference between that and Test and Tune. Neither of them are racing. The biggest difference would be that the track is more of a competition between people and less of a competition between cars, which makes it more of a sport and more fun.

The difference is that you don't get the chance to race with a clean track in many cases. There are other cars, slower and faster that will make it close to impossible to compare the skill of 2 drivers. Maybe you get lucky and you start a lap with no other cars and see who wins but there is no guarantee unless you are in an actual race.
Anyways, actual road racing is a sport for very very few. It is extremely hard on equipment (if you actually take your vehicle to it's limits) and it's not just your motor/engine that gets heavy duty use, it's all suspension and brake components as well. It is a very expensive sport if you do it on a regular basis.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by ptindall

You mean just like in Test and Tune, where its just random cars lined up against each other in whatever order they happened to pull into the staging lanes because its Test and Tune and not real racing?

Exactly.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by ptindall

With track days, one could choose to start next to a friend, you could choose to chase each other head to head, or you could choose to compare lap times amoung the many traffic free laps you get in a day. There is no real difference between that and Test and Tune. Neither of them are racing. The biggest difference would be that the track is more of a competition between people and less of a competition between cars, which makes it more of a sport and more fun.

And this.

Neither a test and tune nor a track day is racing. However to try to make the argument that a test and tune at a drag strip is "competition" and a track day is not (especially when the claim is made by someone who has never done it) is absurd.

With that said, I have seen many track day events that had very unofficial races for those who met specific criteria. Line them up, rolling starts, etc. It's every bit as much of a "real race" as pulling up next to whoever at some random test and tune.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by ptindall

With track days, one could choose to start next to a friend, you could choose to chase each other head to head, or you could choose to compare lap times amoung the many traffic free laps you get in a day. There is no real difference between that and Test and Tune. Neither of them are racing. The biggest difference would be that the track is more of a competition between people and less of a competition between cars, which makes it more of a sport and more fun.

Dead. Spot. On. End of discussion.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The difference is that you don't get the chance to race with a clean track in many cases. There are other cars, slower and faster that will make it close to impossible to compare the skill of 2 drivers.

Yea, that whole slower and faster traffic thing definitely never happens in "real" racing.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

It is a very expensive sport if you do it on a regular basis.

You spent "six figures" to go fake race a bunch of 18 year old kids and youtubers at test and tunes...

[Steve_R]

I've done 1/4 mile test & tune, I've done HPDE, I've done road course open track days and I've done Open Road Races (officially rallies) like BBORR and SSCC. I'd rank them in that order from least fun to most fun. I have no desire to do short 1/4 mile runs, whether official or not, it's just boring to me. Road courses, and particularly Open Road Races, are much more fun and challenging IMO.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

So, on open track days, you get to start at the starting line at the same time as all the other cars on the track like in an actual race or can you encounter random cars that started at a different time?
Is there qualifying to determine starting order? (faster cars of course more in front)

And in a test and tune you line up based on your qualifying order like in an actual race? I'm sure that with all of your experience you aren't overlooking the fact that "real" drag racing involves qualifying as well.

To answer the (stupid) question, if there is someone that you want to run with, you can easily start however you want. You think you're faster than someone? Great, start behind them and see how that works out. Start at the front and see if you stay there. Start at the back and see how many you get around. It still isn't racing, but if you want to play pretend, there is a hell of a lot more opportunity for "competition" than a few seconds in a straight line at a test and tune.

The absurd part of your argument isn't in your claim that track days aren't "real racing"... they're not. The absolutely stupid part is that you are at the same time trying to argue that a test and tune somehow is.

[lrobe22]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

I've done 1/4 mile test & tune, I've done HPDE, I've done road course open track days and I've done Open Road Races (officially rallies) like BBORR and SSCC. I'd rank them in that order from least fun to most fun. I have no desire to do short 1/4 mile runs, whether official or not, it's just boring to me. Road courses, and particularly Open Road Races, are much more fun and challenging IMO.

Sweet. An open road race is on my bucket list.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by lrobe22

Sweet. An open road race is on my bucket list.

Running 160 mph on a closed two lane highway for 130 miles trying to hit a target speed/time dead on is a bit more challenging than pushing the go pedal for nine seconds in a straight line, and a LOT more fun.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

I've done 1/4 mile test & tune, I've done HPDE, I've done road course open track days and I've done Open Road Races (officially rallies) like BBORR and SSCC. I'd rank them in that order from least fun to most fun. I have no desire to do short 1/4 mile runs, whether official or not, it's just boring to me. Road courses, and particularly Open Road Races, are much more fun and challenging IMO.

I agree with the 1/4 mile, too short, all about the launch, and what is worse is that the 1/8 seems to be the new norm for drag racers, as allows for more life for the engine.

I have done both 1-mile in Miami, actually in The Everglades, Dade-Collier Training and Transition Airport, and did the 1/2 mile in Ocala Jumbloair, both runways events were much more fun that the dragstrip.

The runway events appeared to have thinned out, probably due to sponsors difficulty in obtaining liability insurance.

Here is the only site I could find that still has events:
https://airstripattack.co/

BTW, my speeds:
1) 2005 CTS-V, 163 in 1-mile, out of gear at 3/4 mile, only gained 5 mph in last 1/4 mile
2) 2005 C6, 182 in 1-mile, had a small ProCharger
3) Bone Stock 2010 CTS-V, did 135mph in 1/2 mile--I have done faster in Mexico

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Exactly.

As I pointed out in a previous post. It's only random if you allow it to be random. Test & Tune = Grudge racing. You can challenge anyone at the track and if they agree, you can line up with them. I do it all the time. It's friendly competition. I usually as people with cars that are at least 10 second cars to make it interesting but I don't always find fast cars to line up with.
Most cars on Test&Tune night are regular street cars that come to the track to race each other LEGALLY as opposed to illegally on the street (even though I bet many of them also do "MEXICO" races as well).
You line up with whom you want. You are not forced to randomly race people.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

You spent "six figures" to go fake race a bunch of 18 year old kids and youtubers at test and tunes...

Most kids don't have the funds to drive a 9 or 10 second car.
I bought I 6 figure car

a) for the enjoyment of acceleration
b) not to lose in Mexico or at the track to any other street cars

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

And in a test and tune you line up based on your qualifying order like in an actual race? I'm sure that with all of your experience you aren't overlooking the fact that "real" drag racing involves qualifying as well.

To answer the (stupid) question, if there is someone that you want to run with, you can easily start however you want. You think you're faster than someone? Great, start behind them and see how that works out. Start at the front and see if you stay there. Start at the back and see how many you get around. It still isn't racing, but if you want to play pretend, there is a hell of a lot more opportunity for "competition" than a few seconds in a straight line at a test and tune.

The absurd part of your argument isn't in your claim that track days aren't "real racing"... they're not. The absolutely stupid part is that you are at the same time trying to argue that a test and tune somehow is.

There is zero point of "qualifying" in drag racing as both cars always line up beside each other as only 2 cars can race each other at the same time (except for that one drag strip that has 3 lanes). So, there is no point of qualifying. In road racing, NECESSARILY, if you want a better starting position, you need to run a better lap time. There is no benefit in drag racing from that. You line up with whom you want, you get the green light at the same time as the opponent and the rest is determined by reaction time and how fast each car runs. It is a direct 1 on 1 competition and qualifying would make zero sense. In bracket racing, qualifying makes sense because top qualifyer sometimes gets a bye run in the first round.

[GTOguy]

I went to the vintage races in Monterey for many years and some exhibition and shake down events turned into impromptu races. Neat old cars, drivers of varying skills, very exciting to watch. The sounds, the smells, the whole visceral experience. Very cool stuff indeed. I like 1/4 mile vintage drag racing, and am lucky to be able to go to a real full 1.4 mile track (Famoso). 1/8 mile is too short for me and not very interesting. Road racing is kick ass, and have friends who do it in vintage cars and it is $$$$ but the fun level is off the charts. I'd rather read a book or a Yadkin thread than drag race a Tesla.

[ptindall]

Isn't it weird how so many of us who have done both forms of non-racing all basically agree with each other, yet all of us are wrong and getting schooled by a guy who hasn't?

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by ptindall

Isn't it weird how so many of us who have done both forms of non-racing all basically agree with each other, yet all of us are wrong and getting schooled by a guy who hasn't?

It's at least mildly amusing.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

It's at least mildly amusing.

Road racing is for a very very small group of people while drag racing is for the masses.. Anyone, without any required training can drive their car to the drag strip and race. At drag strips in higher populated areas, you have hundreds of people at every Test&Tune. In Orlando, you only get to run once or twice in a night because of the number of cars there. I doubt that you can go every week to a road course and race your friends there. Road racing if done seriously, is extremely hard on the car.. many components of the car. This brings lots of maintenance issues. Certainly not something that most people want to do. It's for a select few.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Road racing is for a very very small group of people while drag racing is for the masses.. Anyone, without any required training can drive their car to the drag strip and race. At drag strips in higher populated areas, you have hundreds of people at every Test&Tune. In Orlando, you only get to run once or twice in a night because of the number of cars there. I doubt that you can go every week to a road course and race your friends there. Road racing if done seriously, is extremely hard on the car.. many components of the car. This brings lots of maintenance issues. Certainly not something that most people want to do. It's for a select few.

How much road racing of any kind have you done - not counting the red light to red light "racing" you used to brag about while not exceeding the speed limit by more than 10 mph? I'd love to compare your road racing experience to mine and how you got all your knowledge about it, including the "lots of maintenance issues."

Originally Posted by ptindall

Isn't it weird how so many of us who have done both forms of non-racing all basically agree with each other, yet all of us are wrong and getting schooled by a guy who hasn't?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

How much road racing of any kind have you done - not counting the red light to red light "racing" you used to brag about while not exceeding the speed limit by more than 10 mph? I'd love to compare your road racing experience to mine and how you got all your knowledge about it, including the "lots of maintenance issues."

Just takes common sense. In road racing, your engine gets stressed a lot more than drag racing. Your suspension and brakes get stressed many times more than drag racing.
Open Track day is $575 for track access at Sebring. Drag racing is $30. Risk of accident if you drive hard is probably 20 times that if you drag race. Now, if you visit the track every month, it costs you $6900 just to race without the maintenance is causes on your car. If you drag race every month, it costs you $300 per year. It's not comparable. One is for a select few and the other is available to the masses.


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