barack obidens son, tossed out of the Navy...for cocaine

[Norm]

That took a while to surface, and the other son want's to be governor of DE. Same ol' same ol'.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Mike Mercury

you think you are; have you introspected lately ?




now [b]that[b/]... gets a

The party platform is pretty simple, and a quick read. Check it out, if you dare, and 1) see if you don't agree that most of my posts don't line up with what you just read, and 2) see if you also don't agree with most of what you just read.

Issues | Libertarian Party

[ZipZap]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

He was going to be a military information officer, which I assume means giving news conferences. Other than just banning drug use for the sake of banning drug use, what possible difference could it make if he did some drugs while off duty? Is he going to accidentally give out top secret info to the press because he did some coke last weekend? I doubt it.

What a ban does is treat all military equally, saying, "we don't care if you are a general or a private, the same rules apply." Again, I'm OK with having the rule, and OK with him getting tossed for breaking it.

It's not the drugs themselves Bill. It is the incredibly poor judgment shown by someone entrusted to wear the uniform as an officer. I, too believe that our approach to drugs has serious flaws, but as an officer I never once thought it might be ok to use "off-duty", even if there was such a concept.

He knew the UCMJ and he knew that as an officer it's his duty to set an excellent example through actions. Administrative discharge is still "other than Honorable" and he will likely regret his decision in the future.

[Millenium Vette]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

The party platform is pretty simple, and a quick read. Check it out, if you dare, and 1) see if you don't agree that most of my posts don't line up with what you just read, and 2) see if you also don't agree with most of what you just read.

Issues | Libertarian Party

I can agree with 95% of the Libertarian Party's platform. What I disagree with is there is no real world logic applied to the platform, only statistics and theories. For instance, making all drugs legal to buy and consume might solve some of the current problems in society, but in my opinion, would create a whole slew of new problems.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by ZipZap

It's not the drugs themselves Bill. It is the incredibly poor judgment shown by someone entrusted to wear the uniform as an officer. I, too believe that our approach to drugs has serious flaws, but as an officer I never once thought it might be ok to use "off-duty", even if there was such a concept.

He knew the UCMJ and he knew that as an officer it's his duty to set an excellent example through actions. Administrative discharge is still "other than Honorable" and he will likely regret his decision in the future.

I would understand and agree with the argument that he sets a bad example to others by breaking the rules. It's why I get so upset when we see cops getting a pass for speeding, for example. I'm not upset at them speeding, I'm upset at the double standard. If you are saying that Biden's drug use was immoral, just as if he had committed adultery, then OK, I can see that being a valid argument, too. People didn't like it when they found out that Bill Clinton was screwing around in the Oval Office. It was unseemly. I do understand that argument.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Millenium Vette

I can agree with 95% of the Libertarian Party's platform. What I disagree with is there is no real world logic applied to the platform, only statistics and theories. For instance, making all drugs legal to buy and consume might solve some of the current problems in society, but in my opinion, would create a whole slew of new problems.

Real freedom and liberty isn't pretty. For example, real freedom means it's more likely that some disturbed individual actually makes it into a shopping mall and guns down shoppers with a full auto weapon, while high on meth. It also may mean your neighbor has his house painted in a color not appealing to you.

So then, we start going down the slippery slope of trading freedom for security. While scenarios like that were probably not imagined by our Founding Fathers, the concept itself was imagined.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Ben Franklin

[wicked_c6]

Originally Posted by PortDawg

Should've been a Big Chicken Dinner, not just an administrative out.

Yeah...wtf is that about?! I've seen bad conduct discharges for marijuana...one would think that coke would warrant a bit more than a admin release.

Wonder why this hasn't been plastered all over the news. I'm sure if Jenna Bush was doing rails we'd see it everywhere.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by wicked_c6

Yeah...wtf is that about?! I've seen bad conduct discharges for marijuana...one would think that coke would warrant a bit more than a admin release.

Wonder why this hasn't been plastered all over the news. I'm sure if Jenna Bush was doing rails we'd see it everywhere.

Was this among the officer corps, or with the enlisted troops? You would think that, if anything, punishment would be more severe for officers.

Military folks: would this disposition be fairly standard for any officer similarly situated, or do you think he got preferential treatment because of his family ties?

[Shrike6]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Was this among the officer corps, or with the enlisted troops? You would think that, if anything, punishment would be more severe for officers.

Military folks: would this disposition be fairly standard for any officer similarly situated, or do you think he got preferential treatment because of his family ties?

Remember the Bush daughters? They were vilified in the press, held up to public ridicule and scorn. But, most times when it is one of the lefties, the MSM goes silent. In any case, the rich and powerful never pay like the average joe.

[DAB]

in related news, the secret service has had to change his code name. he is now known as "snowman"

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Shrike6

Remember the Bush daughters? They were vilified in the press, held up to public ridicule and scorn. But, most times when it is one of the lefties, the MSM goes silent. In any case, the rich and powerful never pay like the average joe.

I actually agree. He was discharged in Feb., 2014, and he tested dirty the year before, yet we are just now hearing about it.

[ZipZap]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

I would understand and agree with the argument that he sets a bad example to others by breaking the rules. It's why I get so upset when we see cops getting a pass for speeding, for example. I'm not upset at them speeding, I'm upset at the double standard. If you are saying that Biden's drug use was immoral, just as if he had committed adultery, then OK, I can see that being a valid argument, too. People didn't like it when they found out that Bill Clinton was screwing around in the Oval Office. It was unseemly. I do understand that argument.

I am not talking morality here. When joining the military you commit to being at the top of your game. Always. Being that we have young folks that may not appreciate that fact, we have officers to lead by example. If that is too much of a commitment, or this expectation is too high, then don't join, as it is totally voluntary at this point.

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Was this among the officer corps, or with the enlisted troops? You would think that, if anything, punishment would be more severe for officers.

Military folks: would this disposition be fairly standard for any officer similarly situated, or do you think he got preferential treatment because of his family ties?

The expectation of officers does tend to be higher, as it should be. One strike and you're out. This was a fail on a golden flow. There are many steps that must be completed before a single drug test results in a discharge. But again, once the test was adjudicated as accurate, he was gone.

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

I actually agree. He was discharged in Feb., 2014, and he tested dirty the year before, yet we are just now hearing about it.

The legal process in the military is similar to civilian life. If he challenged the test results, the methodology of collection, etc., it could be a fair amount of time before the case was adjudicated and he was discharged. The JAG is actually responsible for faithfully representing his side during this process. As for us hearing about it much later, the military does not publicize these actions. It is an embarrassment to the service that they commissioned someone that was not in the end up to the standards they hold. It was certainly not in the interest of the member to have the info go public.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by ZipZap

I am not talking morality here. When joining the military you commit to being at the top of your game. Always. Being that we have young folks that may not appreciate that fact, we have officers to lead by example. If that is too much of a commitment, or this expectation is too high, then don't join, as it is totally voluntary at this point.



The expectation of officers does tend to be higher, as it should be. One strike and you're out. This was a fail on a golden flow. There are many steps that must be completed before a single drug test results in a discharge. But again, once the test was adjudicated as accurate, he was gone.



The legal process in the military is similar to civilian life. If he challenged the test results, the methodology of collection, etc., it could be a fair amount of time before the case was adjudicated and he was discharged. The JAG is actually responsible for faithfully representing his side during this process. As for us hearing about it much later, the military does not publicize these actions. It is an embarrassment to the service that they commissioned someone that was not in the end up to the standards they hold. It was certainly not in the interest of the member to have the info go public.

Sorry. But

[ZipZap]

Originally Posted by LATB

Sorry. But

I have sat through several CM's at both officer and enlisted level to gain my perspective. What is your experience?

[LATB]

Originally Posted by ZipZap

I have sat through several CM's at both officer and enlisted level to gain my perspective. What is your experience?

Not laughing at your experience concerning the CM. Laughing at the premise that the info didn't come out for any reason than political. I'd bet if Scarface Biden was the son of a republican VP we would have known about it before the last lines were snorted.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by LATB

Not laughing at your experience concerning the CM. Laughing at the premise that the info didn't come out for any reason than political. I'd bet if Scarface Biden was the son of a republican VP we would have known about it before the last lines were snorted.

I'm surprised we heard about it at all.

[ZipZap]

Originally Posted by LATB

Not laughing at your experience concerning the CM. Laughing at the premise that the info didn't come out for any reason than political. I'd bet if Scarface Biden was the son of a republican VP we would have known about it before the last lines were snorted.

Well heck, we could argue that the info was held until it could affect mid-terms as well. If we heard about this back then, it would be forgotten now. I don't trust these "releases" much at all any more

[LATB]

Originally Posted by ZipZap

Well heck, we could argue that the info was held until it could affect mid-terms as well. If we heard about this back then, it would be forgotten now. I don't trust these "releases" much at all any more

Agree. Both parties are full of schmucks.

[Millenium Vette]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Real freedom and liberty isn't pretty. For example, real freedom means it's more likely that some disturbed individual actually makes it into a shopping mall and guns down shoppers with a full auto weapon, while high on meth. It also may mean your neighbor has his house painted in a color not appealing to you.

So then, we start going down the slippery slope of trading freedom for security. While scenarios like that were probably not imagined by our Founding Fathers, the concept itself was imagined.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Ben Franklin

The last time I checked, the federal government doesn't have any laws relating to what color my neighbor paints his house.

Great quote by Ben Franklin, but it really doesn't relate to what I was quoted as saying, nor does your "real freedom" example of a druggie gunning down people in a shopping mall.

A couple of questions for you Bill, and they are posed as curiosity, not as me trying to be disagreeable:

What is the difference between a Libertarian society and near or total anarchy?

And:

Does the Libertarian platform just deal with the federal government, or with state and local laws and regulations?

[RED-85-Z51]

IO think WIKI has it pegged...


Although some present-day libertarians advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights, such as in land, infrastructure and natural resources, others, notably libertarian socialists, seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production in favor of their common or cooperative ownership and management. While minarchists believe a limited centralized government is necessary to protect individuals and their property from certain transgressions, anarchists propose to completely eliminate the state as an illegitimate political system


In short...They dont want anyone to tell them what they can and cannot do, because that infringes upon their perceived "liberties".

Unfortunately, if everyone just does What the F*ck ever they want...everything will revert to anarchy, there will be murders in the street for no reason, no police, no organized anything...you will sink to one group setting up their private defense force...and then anothe,r and another...and they will wage war on one another for no reason other than they dont agree...basically gangs, nothing more than gangs....

The only organized anything that will exist, is crime...


Libertarianism is just a bad idea, thankfully, it will never take hold outside of small groups...