The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If you want build quality, get a German car.

Yes. And I did.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

And THAT is my biggest problem with Tesla.

You like to reference the "average" person. What percentage of the time in the car does the "average" person benefit from the performance? The answer is quite simply not a lot. I don't have a 9s car but I do have an S6 which is pretty decent in terms of "performance" by most standards. Just like you, I have owned many many cars along the way. Regardless of the car, anything that is the daily driver is overwhelmingly NOT being driven to use the available performance. Hell, I drive the S6 in "comfort" mode most days.

Which is exactly why I have the car that I have. The build quality is great. The materials used are great. The comfort is better than anything I have ever owned prior. ...and when I want performance, I have more than enough to be fun. Right now, you can get a Model Y Long Range for $44k instock, $36500 after tax credit.

The Tesla is about on par with taking my old track prepped Z06 and using it as a daily driver, which I did. That was fine when I was in my 20s. Now? Not so much. If I buy a car for $100k plus, it better not have the build quality of a Geo Metro.

I don't really want to brag but I'm not an average person (when it comes to income). I bought the car because I wanted that performance. I wanted to go back to the drag strip and run 9's. If I wasn't a drag racer, there is no ****ing way I would have spent that much money on ANY car. My Model Y Long Range was absolutely perfect for everything else (except performance). YES, the additional $70k was worth it FOR ME. I bought the car because I wanted it and I could easily afford it. For most people who do not care to have a reliable 9 second car, the Model X is a waste of money. The Model Y is a 100 times better value if you don't care for performance.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

It comes down to what expectations you have when buying a car. Just look at McLaren. McLaren has $250k - $400k cars and their build quality is not much better than Teslas and yet, people love the cars because they have AMAZING performance and look awesome.

Are you really trying to compare Tesla to McLaren as a justification for build quality? Come on man.

1 is a mass produced daily driver car. 1 is absolutely not.

[Steve_R]

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[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Are you really trying to compare Tesla to McLaren as a justification for build quality? Come on man.

1 is a mass produced daily driver car. 1 is absolutely not.

As I said, people don't buy Teslas for their build quality but despite it.
There is no other reliable 9 second car that I can get FOR ANYWHERE CLOSE TO WHAT I PAID. I have never cared much about build quality. I'm more concerned about the major suspension components and powertrain.
I have never been into LUXURY. I've always been into comfort and performance.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I don't really want to brag but I'm not an average person (when it comes to income). I bought the car because I wanted that performance. I wanted to go back to the drag strip and run 9's. If I wasn't a drag racer, there is no ****ing way I would have spent that much money on ANY car. My Model Y Long Range was absolutely perfect for everything else (except performance). YES, the additional $70k was worth it FOR ME. I bought the car because I wanted it and I could easily afford it. For most people who do not care to have a reliable 9 second car, the Model X is a waste of money. The Model Y is a 100 times better value if you don't care for performance.

So if it ran 10.01 you wouldn't have bought it?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

So if it ran 10.01 you wouldn't have bought it?

probably. Not much difference between 9.80 and 10.01. Would I have bought it if it would run 10.80? Probably not.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

There is no other reliable 9 second car that I can get FOR ANYWHERE CLOSE TO WHAT I PAID.

I'm genuinely curious. Why is "9 seconds" seemingly such a big deal for you? In terms of drag racing, that's not exactly hard to do. Hell, I just saw a complete NHRA 7.50 cert car sell for $13k (with enough spares to run it for a lifetime).

[Bill]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I'm genuinely curious. Why is "9 seconds" seemingly such a big deal for you? In terms of drag racing, that's not exactly hard to do. Hell, I just saw a complete NHRA 7.50 cert car sell for $13k (with enough spares to run it for a lifetime).

In fairness, he doesn't have to have a truck and trailer to haul his car around. He can simply drive to the track, make a few runs, and then stop for groceries on the way home from the track. He's got what we used to call a sleeper. It's a niche car.

I haven't taken into account the tires. If he has to change wheels to run on slicks, then yeah, he'd need a support truck. If he's just doing all that on street tires....yeah, I could see people paying a premium for that.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If you want build quality, get a German car.

Or a Ford truck.
My 100 thousand dollar F250 Platinum is flawless. The fit and finish is perfect. The interior is perfect. Not a squeak or rattle, and the seats are super comfortable. Also mechanically perfect so far.

And I do not baby the truck. Actually I’m probably a bit rougher than I probably should be considering how expensive these trucks are. Embarrassingly expensive.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

In fairness, he doesn't have to have a truck and trailer to haul his car around. He can simply drive to the track, make a few runs, and then stop for groceries on the way home from the track. He's got what we used to call a sleeper. It's a niche car.

I haven't taken into account the tires. If he has to change wheels to run on slicks, then yeah, he'd need a support truck. If he's just doing all that on street tires....yeah, I could see people paying a premium for that.

Right, no truck and trailer, etc. I understand that part... the infatuation with "9 seconds" specifically is the question. He's said it about 700 times. "A 9 second car".

The curiosity stems from the point that to someone who has seemingly done a significant amount of drag racing, a 9 second pass wouldn't be all that exciting, and certainly not worth spending $100k to do.

If your issue was hauling, maintenance, etc, you could "arrive and drive" a 6 second car for a few decades for that amount.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

probably. Not much difference between 9.80 and 10.01. Would I have bought it if it would run 10.80? Probably not.

Wow. That’s serious chit.

[Bill]

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Yes. And I did.

The Germans know to build cars.. That's for sure..

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I'm genuinely curious. Why is "9 seconds" seemingly such a big deal for you? In terms of drag racing, that's not exactly hard to do. Hell, I just saw a complete NHRA 7.50 cert car sell for $13k (with enough spares to run it for a lifetime).

I have outlined the reasons many times. I don't have the time for a dedicated race car, loading on the trailer, tuning and tweaking things etc..
I like to be able to drive right after work to Test&Tune instead of having to drive home, load the race car on the trailer etc.
As a former race car owner, I know that it take time and money as shit will break on a race car.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

In fairness, he doesn't have to have a truck and trailer to haul his car around. He can simply drive to the track, make a few runs, and then stop for groceries on the way home from the track. He's got what we used to call a sleeper. It's a niche car.

I haven't taken into account the tires. If he has to change wheels to run on slicks, then yeah, he'd need a support truck. If he's just doing all that on street tires....yeah, I could see people paying a premium for that.

It's just too much of a hassle and I don't want to have an additional vehicle to haul the car. Then I need a trailer as well. Having a dedicated race car is something that was great when I was single without kids and had time. It's not for me at this point of my life. I want to be able to just drive to the track, race and drive back with no additional work involved.
Also, trailer would take up garage space as I wouldn't want to leave it in the driveway. Additional insurance for the truck, buying the truck etc.
So, having a full time race cars means that I would have 2 vehicles just for the race car as well as a trailer.
Using a truck as daily driver sucks as they are not really fuel efficient, so it's only good as a 2nd car.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Right, no truck and trailer, etc. I understand that part... the infatuation with "9 seconds" specifically is the question. He's said it about 700 times. "A 9 second car".

The curiosity stems from the point that to someone who has seemingly done a significant amount of drag racing, a 9 second pass wouldn't be all that exciting, and certainly not worth spending $100k to do.

If your issue was hauling, maintenance, etc, you could "arrive and drive" a 6 second car for a few decades for that amount.

We all have different wants and needs. I just love the acceleration. I have had 11 second cars and it's NOTHING like a 9 second car. Even a low 10 second car is awesome. 11 seconds is too slow for me. It's not the same experience.

I've owned 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10 and 9 second cars.. I know the difference very well.

[6spdC6]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

We all have different wants and needs. I just love the acceleration. I have had 11 second cars and it's NOTHING like a 9 second car. Even a low 10 second car is awesome. 11 seconds is too slow for me. It's not the same experience.

I've owned 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10 and 9 second cars.. I know the difference very well.

I owned cars of that ET time also. Back in the 60s, they were the only vechicle I owned and I drove them year around!

I raced them both on the street and strip. (Lebanon Vally Dragway and South Glens Falls regularly) Of course this was the mid 60s to early 70s during the great muscle car era. Drive to the strip and take out your MH slicks and tool kit from the large trunks of that era. Put on slicks, open up headers, pull the power steering belt and go run. Do tune up stuff if needed.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I've owned 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10 and 9 second cars.. I know the difference very well.

And perhaps that's the big disconnect. I've been in and around 5-6 second cars for the last few decades.

9 seconds at this point in an AWD car that requires almost no input is about as exciting as driving to go get groceries, especially if you can't even actually race (no, test and tune is not racing). It's certainly not something that I would even remotely consider sacrificing every other aspect of my daily vehicle to do.

To each his own I guess.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

And perhaps that's the big disconnect. I've been in and around 5-6 second cars for the last few decades.

9 seconds at this point in an AWD car that requires almost no input is about as exciting as driving to go get groceries, especially if you can't even actually race (no, test and tune is not racing). It's certainly not something that I would even remotely consider sacrificing every other aspect of my daily vehicle to do.

To each his own I guess.

It didn't require much input when I had my 9 second Vette..
Hold transbrake button, floor gas. Let transbrake button go when the light drops and keep car straight. The MT ET Drag 28 x 10.5W slicks did the job of getting me sufficient traction. All I needed to do is to keep the car straight.

I don't see racing any automatic car on big enough slicks as requiring a lot of skill. Sure, if you have a 9 second or faster stick car, I can see how this requires a lot more skill..
My 11 year old daughter probably could take a modern AWD car with launch control down the drag strip as long as I'd explain to her how it works. AWD Lambos, R8's, 911 Turbo S etc.. All of them super easy to launch and take down the drag strip.


If I really wanted an additional race car, I could have just kept the GrandSportC3 Vette. I used to own a car hauler (open trailer), a truck to tow it and all the equpiment in the garage to do all the work on the car. However, once I got married and had kids, things changed. No time for a race car but I still want to go fast (meaning accelerating fast... I have never been a top speed guy). I don't want extra vehicles as extra vehicles = extra insurances, extra maintenance and extra time..