The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Kevin68]

Hey GSC3, grab some lube and tissues

https://www.statesman.com/story/busi...d/73124545007/

Probably behind a paywall:

Tesla's latest numbers reveal the company has suffered slow sales so far this year amid a tough quarter that included factory shutdowns.

On Tuesday, Tesla announced it had delivered 388,810 vehicles and produced 433,371 vehicles during its first quarter. Deliveries are the closest measure to sales that Tesla discloses.

The company released the numbers ahead of its full earnings report, which is scheduled to be released April 23.

Tesla breaks its delivery numbers by category rather than region or vehicle type. In its first quarter, Tesla:

Delivered 369,783 Model 3 sedans and Model Y SUVs and produced 412,376.
Delivered 17,027 “other models” and produced 20,995.
More:You'll have to pay $1,000 more dollars for Tesla's most popular SUV starting April 1

The undefined "other models" category started last quarter and might include Model S sedans, Model X sport utility vehicles, Cybertrucks and Semitrucks.

Cybertrucks are lined up at Tesla Giga Texas on April 2.
Prior to the report, analyst predictions for vehicle and production deliveries varied widely, but Tesla shares slid nearly 9% Tuesday morning after the Austin-based electric vehicle maker announced the lower-than-expected production and delivery numbers for its first quarter.

[dvarapala]

There's a good chance the Cybertruck will become the Edsel of its time. EVs tend to have bizarre styling anyway but the Cybertruck takes it to a whole new level. Even an EV slurper like me would never buy one.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

There's a good chance the Cybertruck will become the Edsel of its time. EVs tend to have bizarre styling anyway but the Cybertruck takes it to a whole new level. Even an EV slurper like me would never buy one.

You've gone from vax pusher to skeptic, and now from Tesla slurper to this? There's hope for you yet.

And yeah, the Cyber"truck" will never sell in big numbers. Never. And like the Edsel, it won't ever be a good investment. Ever.

[LATB]

I believe that most cyber “truck” buyers are buying a personality statement not a truck.

Truth is many vehicles are purchased this way. Consciously or subconsciously.

[Onebadcad]

Saw a cybertruckie last night while walking Dolly, UGLIER THAN ****!!
Where is the truck bed,,, CANNOT be a truck without a bed!!

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by LATB

I believe that most cyber “truck” buyers are buying a personality statement not a truck.

Truth is many vehicles are purchased this way. Consciously or subconsciously.

Yes. And that is a limited market with a very short attention span.

I've bought a dozen GM trucks. You'll buy another Ford. How many people in Cyber"trucks" do you think will be repeat buyers? Once the novelty wears off, that thing is toast. That customer base will have moved on to whatever else is new at that point and they sure as hell aren't converting any of the people that actually use trucks as trucks.

[ricks327]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

And yeah, the Cyber"truck" will never sell in big numbers. Never. And like the Edsel, it won't ever be a good investment. Ever.

Instead of being like an Edsel, I was thinking of a Yugo.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Sure. 1 quarter for 1 company is an indicator.

How long has Tesla been hemorrhaging price/margin to try to maintain their growth? Guess what, they have now gone to the point that without the .gov funded $7500 on each car, they would actually be losing money.

Novelty only takes you so far. There's a reason that there is a new iPhone every time you look.

As for the Cyber"truck". Yea, let's wait and see where that turd lands once the novelty fades and it has to stand on actual capabilities and real world performance instead of a bunch of dipshits who want one to say "Look at me!"

As I said, let's wait for the next quarters and see where the trend goes. A refresh model coming out does affect demand for certain models as some people prefer to wait. The refresh Model 3 looks much better than the old Model 3 as will the new Model Y. Those are considerations for buyers.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

There's a good chance the Cybertruck will become the Edsel of its time. EVs tend to have bizarre styling anyway but the Cybertruck takes it to a whole new level. Even an EV slurper like me would never buy one.

People are buying them at a $20k premium right now (founders edition)

The Cybertruck will be sold out for a while. I'm very likely NOT going to get mine.. I have not cancelled the order yet but I may cancel it. I really enjoy my MX Plaid and I want to keep it for a while. The Cybertruck will be slower in the 1/4 mile than my Plaid. While the Cybertruck is an odd looking vehicle, it does have insane technology. First vehicle with 48 Volt system etc. Sophisticated steer by wire and many other features that are great.
I haven't made up my mind yet but I think that I'm just going to keep my Plaid and maybe upgrade to a faster Plaid if Tesla ever comes out with a faster SUV.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

People are buying them at a $20k premium right now (founders edition)

People are also paying $20k above sticker for Ranger Raptors. A year ago, the new Bronco was marked up to asinine levels and they were selling them immediately. Hell, when it came out, the Hyundai Palisade was $15k+ over sticker.

Selling a new release vehicle at above sticker says absolutely nothing.

[GTOguy]

Edsel's had wild styling, but underneath, were a good quality Ford/Mercury product and featured the big FE engines. Solid, useful cars, despite being ugly. The cybertruck is beyond ugly and useless for anything but shock value. It's as virtue-hip-signaling as a nose ring or an arm sleeve tattoo. It screams : LOOK AT ME! I'M HIP, COOL, and SPECIAL!

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

People are buying them at a $20k premium right now (founders edition)

It'll be great for Tesla until the early adopter market is saturated.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

Edsel's had wild styling, but underneath, were a good quality Ford/Mercury product and featured the big FE engines. Solid, useful cars, despite being ugly. The cybertruck is beyond ugly and useless for anything but shock value. It's as virtue-hip-signaling as a nose ring or an arm sleeve tattoo. It screams : LOOK AT ME! I'M HIP, COOL, and SPECIAL!

.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

Edsel's had wild styling, but underneath, were a good quality Ford/Mercury product and featured the big FE engines. Solid, useful cars, despite being ugly. The cybertruck is beyond ugly and useless for anything but shock value. It's as virtue-hip-signaling as a nose ring or an arm sleeve tattoo. It screams : LOOK AT ME! I'M HIP, COOL, and SPECIAL!

I never considered Edsels any uglier than the other Ford products out at that time.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

It'll be great for Tesla until the early adopter market is saturated.

We will see where sales go. I would DEFINITELY get one if it would have the originally promised range. Not because I need a truck but because 500 mile range is awesome. 350 mile range works fine for me but eventually, the battery degrades and range will drop over the long term. If you have 500 miles range to start with, I wouldn't care if after 7 years, you only get 440 miles..
I'm still holding on to my reservation and will see what I will do. There is still a chance that I'll get the Cybertruck but I would consider it < 50%. I'll just wait and see. Not in a hurry. I'm very satisfied with my current car. Other than the looks, it's the perfect car for my wants and needs. If you have a SUV, the "looks" will never be ideal. Even the Lambo URUS isn't really a beauty. I looks good but not great. Model X doesn't look bad IMHO but it's nothing special when it comes to looks but that's not why I bought it. I bought it because every other aspect of the car (space, performance, comfort, infotainment) is ideal for me.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I would DEFINITELY get one if it would have the originally promised range. Not because I need a truck but because 500 mile range is awesome. 350 mile range works fine for me but eventually, the battery degrades and range will drop over the long term.

I've never had a gas tank on any of my cars shrink over time. Weird.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

I've never had a gas tank on any of my cars shrink over time. Weird.

I never worried about gas tank size when I had gas cars and we owned a Jeep Patriot with a 13.9 gallon tank and it worked out just fine for us.
260 - 280 miles on a tank was just fine. We stop at the frequency anyways.
With the Model X, I can go 250 miles on a full charge at 80 mph.. In 7 years, that may be only 210 miles.. Once you get under 200 mile usable range on a charge, it becomes a little inconvenient.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I never worried about gas tank size when I had gas cars and we owned a Jeep Patriot with a 13.9 gallon tank and it worked out just fine for us.
260 - 280 miles on a tank was just fine. We stop at the frequency anyways.
With the Model X, I can go 250 miles on a full charge at 80 mph.. In 7 years, that may be only 210 miles.. Once you get under 200 mile usable range on a charge, it becomes a little inconvenient.

That is one giant hurdle the industry must fix before there's widespread acceptance and adoption of EVs. Nobody wants a shrinking gas tank, and then have to spend thousands of dollars for a new gas tank if they plan to keep a car for many years.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

That is one giant hurdle the industry must fix before there's widespread acceptance and adoption of EVs. Nobody wants a shrinking gas tank, and then have to spend thousands of dollars for a new gas tank if they plan to keep a car for many years.

Battery technology is already there for 600 mile range, 10 minute charging time. At such a battery size, a 10% degradation over 200k miles isn't a big deal. Of course, to scale and produce sufficient of those batteries will take a while. If range and cost are at ICE car levels, 70%+ will be willing to switch to EV's. We are still several years from that happening. As I said, the technology does already exist.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

I've never had a gas tank on any of my cars shrink over time. Weird.

Having grown up in the rust belt I've had several that developed a leak.