The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Pure and utter BS. The .gov giving some people a credit of $7,500 if they buy a Tesla but nothing if they buy a Rivian. That is the very definition of a handout. Stop with the semantics and just admit that the .gov is willing to use my tax money to fund your Tesla purchase without my permission.

Some heads are thicker than others,,,

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

There is no smoke an mirrors. The tax credit is something that virtually everyone who may be interested in a entry level vehicle would qualify for.
Only real question is if people paid enough taxes to get the full tax credit.
You'd really have to have a household income of over $100k to pay $7500 or more in income tax (married filing jointly). This does not mean that you won't get the tax credit. This just means that you won't get the FULL tax credit as it is capped to the amount you paid in income tax. So, if someone in 2024 only paid $6000 in federal income tax, their tax credit will only be $6000 and not $7500 as you can only get a credit up to the amount of your federal income tax liability.

Bold = incorrect.

According to the IRS 2023 Tax Table, to owe $7,500, you'd need a taxable income (IRS Form 1040, line 15) of at least $55,400 as a single filer, $62,700 for a head of household and $66,150 for joint filers.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I'm going to try this 1 more time. Because I simply refuse to believe that someone is too dense to understand something so simple.

The government handed GM approximately $50 Billion as a bailout. That to you is bad.

Now, let's try option B.

Instead of a payment, the government issued a $10,000 "tax credit" on all new cars. This credit was actually applied at time of sale and processed by GM (just like it is done with EVs). As a result:

GM increases price by $10k on every car but that is never seen by the customer. Prices are all "after tax credit". The customer pays the same amount that they would have otherwise. That $10,000 goes straight to GM.

GM sold 2.6 million cars in 2023. The customer paid exactly what they would have otherwise, GM gets an additional $26 Billion. Do it for 2 years and there you go. $52 Billion. GM gets the same benefit and the .gov never "gave" them a dime.

(Bonus points that you get to tell a bunch of idiot customers that they are actually saving $10k in the process.)

There is no way that you don't understand how this works. It is not complicated.

I've been trying to tell you . . .

[Mick]

Originally Posted by LATB

Bold = incorrect.

According to the IRS 2023 Tax Table, to owe $7,500, you'd need a taxable income (IRS Form 1040, line 15) of at least $55,400 as a single filer, $62,700 for a head of household and $66,150 for joint filers.

Married filing jointly, you would have to add back $27,700 for the standard deduction, so a gross of $93,850.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

Bold = incorrect.

According to the IRS 2023 Tax Table, to owe $7,500, you'd need a taxable income (IRS Form 1040, line 15) of at least $55,400 as a single filer, $62,700 for a head of household and $66,150 for joint filers.

That's if you have no kids and this is ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME, not GROSS INCOME. ADJUSTED GROSS income can be much lower if you contribute to 401k and other factors. If a family makes $100k, their AGI is likely a lot less.
Things like employee contribution to health plan, 401k and other things are taken out of that, including what you pay for FICA.
I'm married with 2 kids and my GROSS INCOME was $197k for 2023 BUT my AGI was only $149k. I'm not an accountant but I just checked my tax return for 2023 and the difference between GROSS Income and AGI is significant.

With 2 kids, 11 and 13 I only paid under $12k in income taxes for a $197k GROSS income. Of course, there are write offs, depreciation etc. that helps to get income taxes down.

With my AGI of $149k I would still qualify for used EV tax credit

I increae my 401k contribution every year to reduce my tax bill.. It reduces most of my income to a lower tax bracket. Business expenses are another large chunk being taken out of gross income.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by Mick

Married filing jointly, you would have to add back $27,700 for the standard deduction, so a gross of $93,850.

I wish my income tax bill was only $7500. Not much I hate more than writing the bastards in DC a big check.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by LATB

I wish my income tax bill was only $7500. Not much I hate more than writing the bastards in DC a big check.

Especially when they turn around and send it to Elon Musk to lure EV slurpers into buying a Tesla with your money.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Mick

Married filing jointly, you would have to add back $27,700 for the standard deduction, so a gross of $93,850.

Don't forget 401k contributions into ROTH IRA. Most people contribute and if you contribute a lot, your AGI will go down. That's what I do to pay less taxes. I increase 401k contributions every year to minimize income in higher tax brackets. I believe that Health Care Plan payments also reduce AGI.
Just like everybody who is smart, I do everything needed to reduce my tax rate/tax burden. Many LEGAL ways of doing that.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Especially when they turn around and send it to Elon Musk to lure EV slurpers into buying a Tesla with your money.

Come on man, you should know better. Elon isn't the 1 benefiting from it. Not at all. This is only to help the consumers. Didn't ya know? Saint Elon is opposed to all of it and only wants to help the masses. The fine folks at Tesla are even nice enough to process it for you to help you out... even while not benefiting from it at all.

[DDSLT5]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Come on man, you should know better. Elon isn't the 1 benefiting from it. Not at all. This is only to help the consumers. Didn't ya know? Saint Elon is opposed to all of it and only wants to help the masses. The fine folks at Tesla are even nice enough to process it for you to help you out... even while not benefiting from it at all.

I don't blame Elon. He is capitalizing on the stupidity of the average dipshit. That's the American dream! Good for him.

[LATB]

So what happens if you buy a Tesla and receive the 7500 credit at the time of the purchase but you don’t have the income to qualify for the credit?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

So what happens if you buy a Tesla and receive the 7500 credit at the time of the purchase but you don’t have the income to qualify for the credit?

You owe the IRS and instead of a refund, you have to send them money.

[GrandSportC3]

This year, I waited until late march to file my taxes as I expected to owe $2k or more.. However, turns out that I'm getting $1100 refund instead.. Should have filed earlier..

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

You owe the IRS and instead of a refund, you have to send them money.

I think that is hilarious. Some schmuck will buy a Tesla and come tax time he has to pay the 7500.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by DDSLT5

I don't blame Elon. He is capitalizing on the stupidity of the average dipshit. That's the American dream! Good for him.

I don't BLAME him either. He is absolutely capitalizing on the average dipshit (ironically what GSC3 is so spun up about when someone else does it). I blame the government and the idiots that support it.

I do however find it amusing that Elon is so "outraged" and "against" handouts... while simultaneously being the recipient of a $5 Billion .gov gift.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

I think that is hilarious. Some schmuck will buy a Tesla and come tax time he has to pay the 7500.

Some people are stupid.. All they need to do is to look at their last couple of tax returns and see how much income taxes they paid and if it was less than $7500, they can expect to owe money if they didn't pay $7500 or more in taxes. I'm very aware of my tax situation and I know more or less how much my tax load for a particular year will be. I can control my TAXABLE income with my 401k. So, any time my income goes up, I increase my 401k contribution as I don't like paying taxes in higher income brackets. In the years that I flipped homes, a lot of that income was taxes at a very high rate. That's why I stopped flipping homes. Better having rentals as there are so many write offs and depreciation to reduce the profit on those. It's also great to have a good CPA. Well worth the $$$

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I don't BLAME him either. He is absolutely capitalizing on the average dipshit (ironically what GSC3 is so spun up about when someone else does it). I blame the government and the idiots that support it.

I do however find it amusing that Elon is so "outraged" and "against" handouts... while simultaneously being the recipient of a $5 Billion .gov gift.

Look, I was against any of the handouts sent to taxpayers during COVID. This doesn't mean that I would reject the money but that doesn't change the fact that it was fiscally completely irresponsible by our government to send checks to people who had no impact due to COVID. I understand that they had to compensate those who were affected but that doesn't justify sending billions and billions of dollars to people who had no impact from COVID. Again, nobody will "REJECT" money that you get from government.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I don't BLAME him either. He is absolutely capitalizing on the average dipshit (ironically what GSC3 is so spun up about when someone else does it). I blame the government and the idiots that support it.

I do however find it amusing that Elon is so "outraged" and "against" handouts... while simultaneously being the recipient of a $5 Billion .gov gift.

BTW, did you get any Stimulus payments by our government during COVID?
Did you send it back or reject it?

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Look, I was against any of the handouts sent to taxpayers during COVID. This doesn't mean that I would reject the money...

Ethics. Get some. YW.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Some people are stupid.. All they need to do is to look at their last couple of tax returns and see how much income taxes they paid and if it was less than $7500, they can expect to owe money if they didn't pay $7500 or more in taxes. I'm very aware of my tax situation and I know more or less how much my tax load for a particular year will be. I can control my TAXABLE income with my 401k. So, any time my income goes up, I increase my 401k contribution as I don't like paying taxes in higher income brackets. In the years that I flipped homes, a lot of that income was taxes at a very high rate. That's why I stopped flipping homes. Better having rentals as there are so many write offs and depreciation to reduce the profit on those. It's also great to have a good CPA. Well worth the $$$

Convoluted bullchit that the government should not be involved with.