For you Christians

[DAB]

and if you say you believe what the vatican teaches, which has changed over time, and some is based on the Bible, and some is based on "tradition" (what someone long ago taught and it has stuck around), and you believe that you can perform acts that will get your sins forgiven, or that the pope and his designees can forgive your sins, then why wouldn't the pope just forgive everyone's sins and be done with it? surely the pope wants the best for all his sheep?

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[SurfnSun]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

SNS,
Good input, thanks.
I believe in grace and mercy.
The GOD of the OT was very rigid, and I believe Christ's main objective was to teach grace and mercy as evidenced with Mary Magdalene.
Jesus's teachings were also NOT exclusionary, all who came were fed.

There are countless benevolent, forthright and altruistic people who never came under the knowledge and teachings of Christ.
IMO they are worthy, as they exemplified the virtues that GOD enjoys viewing, the virtues for which we all aspire.

I may be wrong, I hope I am not.

God is the same...unchanging. The God of the OT is the same God in the new.

Grace and mercy are a result of what Christ did on the cross. If you don't accept him, you aren't covered. The shed blood of Christ is what saves someone...nothing else.

To us, it sounds cold and cruel but riddle this....If God is all powerful and knows the future, do you really have free will? The Bible says you do. If God doesn't know the future is He all powerful? Its that theological question that our minds don't have the capacity to understand. Just like the holy trinity...three separate persons who are all the same person. Same for your question of why seemingly good people go to hell without Christ.

Isaiah 55:8-9 says....
For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.


That tells me we don't have the capacity to understand...hence, faith.

[Ronins2ndCuzzin]

Originally Posted by LATB

Mr Ronin,
A question….
Are you an atheist or are you agnostic?

Based on current definitions, I fall more inline with agnostic.

[SurfnSun]

Originally Posted by Ronins2ndCuzzin

Agreed, it's plausible. When you compare the two, they share similar characteristics in their descriptions of the Greek versions. Subtle differences, but similarities too.

I still struggle with why would they leave? If men (mankind) truly worshipped them, that gives them all the power they could ever want/need. Why would any demigod ever leave? Why would they not continue to remain among us to be worshipped? Do they think we're so doomed that they can't help or even save us? Certainly with god-like powers (even half of a "Gods" power) is more than enough to save humanity. Is mankind just a toy that God (or gods) is/are tired of playing with? If so, are they still worthy of being worshipped?

To your other questions...the Bible says they were giants, so thats what I believe. IMO Demigod is man-made mythical term, no mention of that other than in fantasy or mythological writings. Angels aren't gods, they were created.

As to why they left....When they bred with humans, the offspring was sin cursed just like man. They died just as men do.

Have you read about the Dead Sea Scrolls?

[Ronins2ndCuzzin]

Originally Posted by SurfnSun

To your other questions...the Bible says they were giants, so thats what I believe. IMO Demigod is man-made mythical term, no mention of that other than in fantasy or mythological writings. Angels aren't gods, they were created.

As to why they left....When they bred with humans, the offspring was sin cursed just like man. They died just as men do.

Have you read about the Dead Sea Scrolls?

I'm familiar.

[04 commemorative]

Purgatory

[Ronins2ndCuzzin]

Originally Posted by 04 commemorative

Purgatory

Strong first post...

[jw38]

Originally Posted by Ronins2ndCuzzin

I'm in no way challenging anyone's beliefs. I'm happy that true believers exist and they are almost always wonderful people to be around. I also truly enjoy discussions like these with people who have vastly different perspectives than I. I'm just saying that I don't believe in the same way. I have too many questions that can't be answered by "having faith."


In the bold though...that doesn't seem like a bit of a stretch? How can anything be "written" before there is a world with people in which to write it? So you dig deeper analytically (out of the literal) into the philosophical context of it, to me it sounds like the author is saying that God is "the Universe." And if that's the truth, cool. It's a title. Like any other synonym. A ball is a sphere, a bottle is also a container, and vice versa.

Simple answer: God. You're looking at it from an analytical context, not a spiritual context.

Originally Posted by Ronins2ndCuzzin

(Only slightly sarcastic...no offense intended.)
Hate to point out the obvious, but I'm pretty sure that guy is dead. Does that also mean you'd have to meet him for him to forgive you? And since he's dead, I'm guessing he made it to heaven, which wouldn't that mean I'd need to be in heaven to ask him to forgive my sins to then get into heaven? But then how can I ask him anything, if I'm dead, and he's dead...is it just then our ethereal energy that's communicating? How does this work exactly?

Simple answer: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus lives in all of us.

Originally Posted by LATB

Jesus was crucified and died. He was placed in the tomb and rose from the dead. He ascended to heaven and is with the Father.
The belief in the resurrection is the basis of Christian faith.

Amen!

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

Good posts in here, thanks.

My take:
1) The is an Omnipotent Creator, HE is the Supreme Authority, we are a much lesser race
2) Our universe did not come from nothing, the matter was provided by GOD, this could have been shown much easier but then there would no need for faith
3) You cannot make those who do not want to believe into believers, faith is not their pursuit
4) Earth is a test, GOD wants to be with those who love him for eternity, your character is best defined in your toughest times
5) If everyone goes to heaven Earth would not be necessary, many go to hell
6) 50% of overcoming is your own life's work, the other 50% is helping others to be their best
7) GOD IS NOT RELIGION, religion is man's teachings of GOD's writtten works, much is flawed here as man is greatly flawed
8) My concern is not to make you believe in GOD, no one makes you believe anything
9) GOD is good and merciful, many have not heard of JESUS CHRIST due to when they were born or where they lived, Heaven is attainable without knowing JESUS CHRIST
10) Only your actions dictate your end, not your possessions or intellect or ego, the inhabitants of Heaven will be altruistic and noble

Absolutely true. Especially #7.

Originally Posted by SurfnSun

Here is the problem with that...true Christianity isn't religion.

Has man warped it in some denominations? Absolutely...the problem is fellow man was never the measuring stick, we are a broken people. Look around the world. It is Christ, and we can't live up to him. Hence the crucifiction of a blameless individual to pay for sins he never committed.

Bingo. And religion isn't Christianity. I'm a Christian...a follower of Christ...but I practice no religion.

Originally Posted by DAB

Matt 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


No one talked Peter into believing that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God. God alone revealed this to Peter. likewise, you are not going to convince or win an argument/debate with someone and make them a Christian.

God alone will give them a new heart and make them a believer. That's really good news, as the salvation of others is not my responsibility, it is solely God's problem. If He has chosen you to join Him in heaven, then He'll do what is required to get you there, and if not, then you'll go to hell and receive eternal punishment that is fit for your sins.

My only responsibility is to tell others the good news of the gospel, which i and others in this thread have done.

Originally Posted by LATB

/thread.

Yup...boom!

[owc6]

Originally Posted by 04 commemorative

Purgatory

Is not a biblical concept.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Doesn't mention anything about going to a place where you can buy or earn way out, or people still alive can pray you out.

Ones spiritual condition doesn't change after death.

[roadpilot]

Originally Posted by KenHorse

Not sure why but this thought popped into my head while iHeart was plugging a podcast about a serial killer.

If a mentally ill person commits murder, do they go to Heaven?

Sure, they have free will but their mind doesn't work correctly and can't tell the difference between right and wrong, right?

We all go to Heaven. The catch is how long we stay.

[SurfnSun]

Originally Posted by roadpilot

We all go to Heaven. The catch is how long we stay.

As I’m always curious on people’s beliefs…where does that idea come from?

[DAB]

Originally Posted by SurfnSun

As I’m always curious on people’s beliefs…where does that idea come from?

read Revelation chap 21. it's for eternity.

[owc6]

Originally Posted by SurfnSun

As I’m always curious on people’s beliefs…where does that idea come from?

Perhaps that's where the Judgement will take place. With God on his throne which is in heaven.

[SurfnSun]

Originally Posted by owc6

Perhaps that's where the Judgement will take place. With God on his throne which is in heaven.

Oh if referring to The Great White Throne judgment I suppose, I wasn’t reading it that way. However the unsaved would have been in Hades awaiting Gehenna, right?

[SurfnSun]

Originally Posted by DAB

read Revelation chap 21. it's for eternity.

Not all go to Heaven

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by owc6

Is not a biblical concept.

Is a Dante concept.

[Ronins2ndCuzzin]

Originally Posted by DAB

read Revelation chap 21. it's for eternity.

This is of course if you believe the Bible is factual.

[roadpilot]

Originally Posted by SurfnSun

As I’m always curious on people’s beliefs…where does that idea come from?

Life in/is Hell.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

Is a Dante concept.

Dante? Dante Washington? That fool still owe me money!

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by Bill

Dante? Dante Washington? That fool still owe me money!