[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by Loco Vette

OK, I am back. No we're not. If the only taxes they pay are to secure a future return to them down the road, then they are contributing to their good, not the common good. And by "other taxes", I assume you mean sales tax, etc. These are consumption based and do not "progress" with the payor's income, therefore they are not part of this discussion.

Well, you already said most of your employees in this pool of tax payers have a mortgage, so that means they pay property taxes. They probably have to drive to work so they pay tax on their registrations and then tax on the fuel they use.

I could go on and on.

FYI - Individual income tax only makes up slightly less than half of the money collected by the federal government.

I musta missed that referendum. And even if it is true, "society as a whole" damn sure did not agree to create a system whereby families can go through 3 or 4 generations with no one holding a job, just reproducing.

Your characterization of the typical welfare recipient is way off. The largest "ethnic" group is white, and most are only on it for a short period of time. As I already pointed out, there is a 60 month lifetime cap on cash assistance.

The highest percentage of people on welfare are unwed mothers. Which when you combine this with the fact that your side still wants to abolish abortion blows my mind.

But the ones that go into the 47% and stay there are there because of poor decisions. People drift in and out of the 47% just like they do the 1%. And where did you get your 1/5 stat? Or is it just your opinion?

So the guys in the military - who qualify to be in the 47% - have made poor decisions?

People with disabilities have made poor decisions?

The elderly living in retirement have made poor decisions?

On top of that, there is only so much income to be made in this country. Not everyone can be a millionaire. If all the sudden everyone became an investment banker, that job would suddenly pay minimum wage.

The VAST majority of poor people are born poor and the VAST majority of wealthy people were born into wealthy families.

Not everyone has parents that can afford law, business or medical school. To whom one is born is the overwhelming factor in whom and what you become.

When did the GOP start consulting you on the platform? No one is advocating that and you know it.

You - especially coming from your medical background - can not possibly be arguing that conservatives want to expand - or even keep MedicAID at its currently funded levels.

And they didn't have to consult me. Paul Ryan's budget cuts Medicaid by 800 million over the next ten years.

You're the one who dismissed my statement with no data. What data has been shown supports my point. And no, I'm not pullin all their tax returns in to see.

Since there is no data, neither of us can make a point.

Spoken like a true dreamer. Neither of us can overrule the laws of economics any more than we can the law of gravity. What we can do is look critically at the fact that the "War on Poverty" has been no more effective than the "War on Drugs" and quit throwing more money into the failed machine.

Let me clarify what I meant. Corporate "economic realities" do not excuse us from our social moral obligations. If a company goes bust our government has programs to help the unemployed.

While that may (and I am not gonna go to the effort to research it) that statement is true only in the classic sense of the word "welfare". SNAP, AFDC, etc have no such restrictions.

If you are not going to research it how can you debate it?

Not true. If a job has to be done and no one is willing to do it for the wage offered, then the wages offered will go up or the job will go undone. Those immigrants you love so much are exacerbating this problem, by the way.

Its absolutely true. When we ship more and more good paying jobs overseas, the dwindling pool of available jobs are the low paying jobs. People take those jobs because they have no other choice.

And its your party that objects to punishing the companies that hire illegals by the way.

You started with the capital gains rate, I answered, you jumped to the Bush tax cuts, I answered, now we are back to capital cains rates. I will debate either or both of these with you but we have to stay on one subject at a time.

The Bush tax cuts INCLUDED lowering the capital gains tax.

It was. He said Hi!

Looks like you guys had a good time.