The Vette Barn

The Vette Barn (https://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/index.php)
-   Politics & Religion (https://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=82)
-   -   The Phone Call Heard 'Round the World: Trump Calls Taiwan (https://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103591)

bill_daniels 12-03-2016 8:14am

The Phone Call Heard 'Round the World: Trump Calls Taiwan
 
There's a new sheriff in town.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...iwan-president

Quote:

Trump's phone call with Taiwan president risks China's wrath

Diplomatic experts predict fraught start to US relations with Beijing after president-elect’s conversation with Tsai Ing-wen

China lodges complaint with US over Trump’s Taiwan phone call



Tom Phillips in Beijing, Nicola Smith in Taipei and Nicky Woolf in San Francisco

Saturday 3 December 2016 05.19 EST
First published on Friday 2 December 2016 19.04 EST

Donald Trump looked to have sparked a potentially damaging diplomatic row with China on Friday after speaking to Taiwanese president Tsai Ing-wen on the telephone in a move experts said would anger Beijing.

The call, first reported by the Taipei Times and confirmed by the Financial Times, is thought to be the first between the leader of the island and a US president or president-elect since ties between America and Taiwan were severed in 1979, at Beijing’s behest.

The US closed its embassy in Taiwan – a democratically ruled island which Beijing considers a breakaway province – in the late 1970s following the historic rapprochement between Beijing and Washington that stemmed from Richard Nixon’s 1972 trip to China.

Since then the US has adhered to the so-called “one China” principle which officially considers the independently governed island part of the same single Chinese nation as the mainland.

Trump’s transition team said Tsai, who was elected Tawain’s first female president in January, had congratulated the billionaire tycoon on his recent victory.

“During the discussion they noted the close economic, political, and security ties that exist between Taiwan and the United States,” a statement said. “President-elect Trump also congratulated President Tsai on becoming president of Taiwan earlier this year.”

Beijing sought to play down the importance of the phone call, with foreign minister Wang Yi dismissing it as “just a small trick” by Taiwan.
'Terrific guy, fantastic country': Trump heaps praise on Pakistan's leader
Read more

In an interview with Hong Kong’s Phoenix TV Wang said he hoped Trump’s conversation would not damage or interfere with the US’ longstanding adherence to the “One China” policy.

“China doesn’t want to see any disturbance [to US-China relations],” Wang added, according to the state-run China Daily newspaper.

An editorial in the Global Times, a state-run tabloid, echoed the foreign minister’s words, calling the phone call a “petty gesture” from Taiwan to which Trump had mistakenly responded.

The newspaper warned that by siding with Taiwan, Trump would “destroy Sino-US ties”. “That means the current pattern between Beijing and Washington as well as international order will be overturned. We believe this is not what Trump wants.”

Experts said the unanticipated call would infuriate China’s leaders.

“This is going to make real waves in Beijing,” said Bill Bishop, a veteran China watcher who runs the Sinocism newsletter from Washington DC. “I think we will see quite the reaction from Beijing … this will put relations from day one into a very difficult place.”

Evan Medeiros, the Asia director at the White House national security council, told the Financial Times: “The Chinese leadership will see this as a highly provocative action, of historic proportions.

“Regardless if it was deliberate or accidental, this phone call will fundamentally change China’s perceptions of Trump’s strategic intentions for the negative. With this kind of move, Trump is setting a foundation of enduring mistrust and strategic competition for US-China relations.”

In an indication that Trump’s team had grasped the potential damage caused to relations with Beijing, the US president-elect later tweeted:

Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)

The President of Taiwan CALLED ME today to wish me congratulations on winning the Presidency. Thank you!
December 3, 2016

However, even that 17-word tweet threatened to further inflame the situation. The traditional US diplomatic formulation for referring to Taiwan’s leader - one specifically designed not to upset Beijing - is “the president on Taiwan” rather than “the president of Taiwan”.

In a second tweet addressing criticism of the call Trump wrote:

Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)

Interesting how the U.S. sells Taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment but I should not accept a congratulatory call.
December 3, 2016

Bishop said it was hard to know whether the call was the result of a deliberate policy move by Trump or merely an intervention by a member of his staff who was friendly towards Tsai Ing-wen and Taipei.

Trump adviser Peter Navarro, an economics professor, travelled to Taiwan in the first half of this year at the invitation of its ministry of foreign affairs.

In a recent article for Foreign Policy magazine, Navarro said Barack Obama’s treatment of Taiwan had been “egregious”, adding: “This beacon of democracy in Asia is perhaps the most militarily vulnerable US partner anywhere in the world.”

Paul Haenle, the head of the Carnegie-Tsinghua Centre in Beijing, said the call would serve as “a reality check” for many in Beijing who had expected Trump would be transactional and pragmatic leader who might begin a US retreat from Asia and would not challenge China on issues such as human rights.

Trump’s unpredictable moves now threatened to inject fresh uncertainty into Washington-Beijing ties.

“Former president George W. Bush, who I worked for as China director on the National Security Council staff, always operated from a principle of ‘no surprises’, which he believed was a key stabilising feature in the relationship with China,” said Haenle, a veteran US diplomat.

“The alternative – catching China by surprise on some of the most sensitive and longstanding areas of disagreement in our relationship – presents enormous risks and potential detriment for this consequential relationship.”

Bishop said Beijing’s immediate reaction would be a “rhetorical explosion” but that the longer-term consequences were altogether more unpredictable. “If the US starts to change the ‘one China’ policy, that puts US-China relations into uncharted territory,” he said.

Speaking to CNN’s Anderson Cooper, senior Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway defended the president-elect’s unorthodox move.

“I’m pretty certain that president-elect Obama spoke to world leaders in preparation for taking over as commander-in-chief,” she said. Pressed that Obama never broke with US diplomatic policy in this way, Conway said Trump was “fully briefed and fully knowledgeable about these issues”.

In a statement on Saturday morning, President Tsai’s office confirmed that the call had taken place at 11pm local time on Friday, and that the conversation had lasted about 10 minutes.

Taiwan’s National Security Council secretary general Joseph Wu, foreign minister David Lee, and acting secretary general Liu Shih-fang, were all present during the call.

The statement said Tsai congratulated the president-elect on his election and was certain his performance would be “outstanding” in office.

The two leaders exchanged “views and ideas” about future governance, in particular focusing on economic development and “strengthening” national defence.

They also discussed the regional situation in Asia and the strengthening of bilateral relations between Taiwan and the US, with Tsai expressing the hope that Washington would continue to support Taipei internationally.

Reaction in Taiwan was muted on Saturday morning, with people completely taken by surprise, said analysts.

“Obviously for Taiwan it’s a good sign as some Taiwanese politicians were a bit worried that the Trump administration would ignore Taiwan,” said Jonathan Spangler from the Taipei-based South China Sea think tank.

The call could also help boost Tsai’s ratings, which have plummeted in her first six months in office. “It shows that she does have the capacity and courage to lead Taiwan,” said Spangler.

Beijing has been scrambling to understand what a Trump White House might mean for already fraught US-China relations since his election last month, with some predicting an unexpected rapprochement and others a trade war.

On Friday Xi Jinping held a 90-minute meeting with Henry Kissinger, a longstanding go-between for Washington and Beijing, in the Chinese capital to discuss relations between the two countries.

According to Xinhua, China’s official news agency, Xi told Kissinger: “China will work closely with the United States at a new starting point to maintain the smooth transition of ties and stable growth”.

“The two countries should properly handle their different views and divergences in a constructive manner,” Xi reportedly added.

That relationship is likely to be come under sudden and renewed strain in the wake of Trump’s call with Tsai.

“This adds a level of risk to US-China relations that we haven’t seen in a very long time,” said Bishop.

“This is the third rail of US-China relations. For Trump to come in and basically look like he is setting aside decades of US policy towards [China/Taiwan] relations has to be quite worrisome for them. There is a lot of uncertainty about what Trump is going to do.

“It’s unclear who his advisers are, although certainly the ones who have been named have argued over the years for the US to change the relationship we have with Taiwan; to make the US-Taiwan relationship more important and upend the one China policy that we have had in place since the 1970s. So this could set off a lot of alarm bells in Beijing.”

In the lead-up to Friday’s call with Tsai, Trump’s team had reportedly been looking into the possibility of investing in luxury hotels in Taiwan.

In mid-November the mayor of Taoyuan, a city in northwest Taiwan, confirmed that a representative of the president-elect had flown into his city to examine business opportunities at Aerotropolis, a sprawling development of luxury waterside homes and industrial parks near its international airport.

The Taiwan News website reported that Eric Trump, the incoming president’s son, was also planning a trip to Taiwan this year.

So, a bunch of commies are butthurt. Maybe Trump should send them some crayons and coloring books and tell them to go to their safe space.

6spdC6 12-03-2016 8:16am

China is pissed off:lol:

04 commemorative 12-03-2016 8:33am

cliffs

bill_daniels 12-03-2016 9:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04 commemorative (Post 1521276)
cliffs

Since 1979 (Jimma Caaarter era) the US and China agreed to a "don't ask, don't tell policy towards Taiwan, because Red China is butthurt that some Chinese are free and democratic. Part of that deal is, the US president doesn't speak to the president of Taiwan, so as not to offend the special snowflakes of the Chinese communist party.

Trump just let China know what he thinks about a US president being silenced.

markids77 12-03-2016 9:02am

Cliffs: China wants to exert sovereign control over the entire South China sea area, therefore also controlling what, if any ocean borne commerce passes through "their" waters. Several US administrations now have avoided any sort of challenge to that policy, and that has been a huge mistake..

It is in the world's best interest that free transit of goods happen there and this looks like an initial step by the Trump team to tell China that there's a new Sheriff in town.

Shrike6 12-03-2016 9:10am

I hope Trump disregards China's protests and just does the right things. Screw them and what they want. We shouldn't let them dictate anything to us, ever.

boracayjohnny 12-03-2016 9:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by markids77 (Post 1521283)
Cliffs: China wants to exert sovereign control over the entire South China sea area, therefore also controlling what, if any ocean borne commerce passes through "their" waters. Several US administrations now have avoided any sort of challenge to that policy, and that has been a huge mistake..

It is in the world's best interest that free transit of goods happen there and this looks like an initial step by the Trump team to tell China that there's a new Sheriff in town.

Yep, the South China Sea has been taken over by China. Thanks in part to Obama and him being a weak ass, once again.

Even the President of the Philippines disrespected Obama by calling him a SOB and all that happened was Obama not following through on a planned meeting.

markids77 12-03-2016 9:16am

I hope everyone on both sides of this potential fustercluck keep their big boy pants on and considers each move long and hard. The economies of most of the developed Nations hinge on access to that trade route; especially to include ours AND China's.
Wars have been started for much less important stuff.

boracayjohnny 12-03-2016 9:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrike6 (Post 1521284)
I hope Trump disregards China's protests and just does the right things. Screw them and what they want. We shouldn't let them dictate anything to us, ever.

Back in '02, the Winter Olympics were in Salt Lake City. The worlds athletes were all over the area. One Salt Lake resident decided to make a banner and hang it from the balcony of their high level apartment. The banner simply read, "Free Tibet". The Chinese were upset and demanded the banner be taken down. Yea, that went over well. The Chinese were told the US is a free country and the banner could stay. The Chinese tried to save face with some lame ass double speak. Fukk those guys.

Jeff '79 12-03-2016 9:17am

Would a US policy of not allowing Chinese boats into US waters hurt China?
Unless they allow the SCS to be navigated freely, there will be no Chinese boats allowed into US waters.
Who owns Maersk and the rest of those massive shipping importers?

boracayjohnny 12-03-2016 9:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff '79 (Post 1521291)
Would a US policy of not allowing Chinese boats into US waters hurt China?
Unless they allow the SCS to be navigated freely, there will be no Chinese boats allowed into US waters.
Who owns Maersk and the rest of those massive shipping importers?

Unfortunately, the US and China are bound together through many businesses currently. To abruptly stop the movement of one countries trade would not be good for either country, to say the least. What's the solution? I have no idea. I do know it is a huge mess. I will support President Trump using any and all measures to make a successful outcome for the US.

markids77 12-03-2016 9:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff '79 (Post 1521291)
Would a US policy of not allowing Chinese boats into US waters hurt China?
Unless they allow the SCS to be navigated freely, there will be no Chinese boats allowed into US waters.
Who owns Maersk and the rest of those massive shipping importers?

It would hurt us as well. Think for a moment how many things you touch each day which have that little sticker "made in China" on them. The US manufacturing base has been so decimated by "Globalization" and the greed of companies vs labor that it would be nearly impossible for us to replace Chinese goods with in country or even in Continent manufactured goods.
This is a BIG deal for everyone.

I have even gotten camo hats from a US PX with the China label inside... think about that for a minute!

Jeff '79 12-03-2016 9:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by boracayjohnny (Post 1521295)
Unfortunately, the US and China are bound together through many businesses currently. To abruptly stop the movement of one countries trade would not be good for either country, to say the least. What's the solution? I have no idea. I do know it is a huge mess. I will support President Trump using any and all measures to make a successful outcome for the US.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markids77 (Post 1521296)
It would hurt us as well. Think for a moment how many things you touch each day which have that little sticker "made in China" on them. The US manufacturing base has been so decimated by "Globalization" and the greed of companies vs labor that it would be nearly impossible for us to replace Chinese goods with in country or even in Continent manufactured goods.
This is a BIG deal for everyone.

I have even gotten camo hats from a US PX with the China label inside... think about that for a minute!

I agree. Initially it would hurt us, however, over a period of time, it would force us to manufacture what China used to import. Albeit, goods would be more expensive, but our unemployment problem would disappear. This combined with Trumps corporate tax cuts could be the answer imo.
Other side effects would be for us to eliminate our dependence from that side of the world, and the slow strangling of Chins's economy, leading to their own civil war.
Ya, ya, that's the ticket. I like it.
Sometimes one has to take one step back to go two steps forward.

OddBall 12-03-2016 10:05am

They've been testing our resolve on the SCS all through obama's term. Trump just let them know that he's not obama.
What Trump has done is move his rook.

China doesn't want to lose our business. They'll squawk, and that's about it.

markids77 12-03-2016 10:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff '79 (Post 1521301)
I agree. Initially it would hurt us, however, over a period of time, it would force us to manufacture what China used to import. Albeit, goods would be more expensive, but our unemployment problem would disappear. This combined with Trumps corporate tax cuts could be the answer imo.
Other side effects would be for us to eliminate our dependence from that side of the world, and the slow strangling of Chins's economy, leading to their own civil war.
Ya, ya, that's the ticket. I like it.
Sometimes one has to take one step back to go two steps forward.

We educated and reasonable folk could justify such actions but think the disruption that would be caused if "Joe the Plumber's" wife went down to Wally World for a new blow up Santa and Elves only to find it was on National Back order, and she could get a raincheck; but after the thing came in it would cost $89.96 instead of the advertised $29.96. There would be rioting in the streets, serious.

OddBall 12-03-2016 10:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff '79 (Post 1521301)
I agree. Initially it would hurt us, however, over a period of time, it would force us to manufacture what China used to import. Albeit, goods would be more expensive, but our unemployment problem would disappear. This combined with Trumps corporate tax cuts could be the answer imo.
Other side effects would be for us to eliminate our dependence from that side of the world, and the slow strangling of Chins's economy, leading to their own civil war.
Ya, ya, that's the ticket. I like it.
Sometimes one has to take one step back to go two steps forward.

:iagree: Would definitely open some new markets. Probably for Europe as well; I'm sure Greece would be happy as hell.

6spdC6 12-03-2016 10:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by markids77 (Post 1521303)
We educated and reasonable folk could justify such actions but think the disruption that would be caused if "Joe the Plumber's" wife went down to Wally World for a new blow up Santa and Elves only to find it was on National Back order, and she could get a raincheck; but after the thing came in it would cost $89.96 instead of the advertised $29.96. There would be rioting in the streets, serious.

The rioting is done by people that do not want to pay for anything. "Joes" wife would be more inclined to do a op-ed in the local paper!

Jeff '79 12-03-2016 10:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by markids77 (Post 1521303)
We educated and reasonable folk could justify such actions but think the disruption that would be caused if "Joe the Plumber's" wife went down to Wally World for a new blow up Santa and Elves only to find it was on National Back order, and she could get a raincheck; but after the thing came in it would cost $89.96 instead of the advertised $29.96. There would be rioting in the streets, serious.

I think that Joe Plumber would much rather sacrifice buying an inexpensive blow up Santa, rather than sacrificing his sons.
Going to war with China is unwinnable..... Simple as that.
We can beat our chests all we want, but they are as advanced as we are, whether you want to believe that or not.
An armed conflict is not the correct answer on this one.

OddBall 12-03-2016 10:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff '79 (Post 1521306)
I think that Joe Plumber would much rather sacrifice buying an inexpensive blow up Santa, rather than sacrificing his sons.
Going to war with China is unwinnable..... Simple as that.
We can beat our chests all we want, but they are as advanced as we are, whether you want to believe that or not.
An armed conflict is not the correct answer on this one.

China doesn't want a war any more than we do. Well, not with us anyway. Bad for business. And who's talking armed conflict?

Jeff '79 12-03-2016 10:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OddBall (Post 1521308)
China doesn't want a war any more than we do. Well, not with us anyway. Bad for business. And who's talking armed conflict?

Things escalate very quickly, and as was said before in this thread, wars have been started for lesser reasons.
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin', you know what I'm sayin' ? :D

Sending our war ships into the SCS would definitely ramp up the situation.
Do we really wanna play poker with them when we don't have to ?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 8:05am.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 - 2019 The Vette Barn