What to do with unskilled labor
 

So Flexo and the current state of affairs has brought up a topic again.
What do we do with unskilled labor. With automation taking over a lot of unskilled labor jobs such as floor buffer dude at the Wal-Mart, cashiers at stores with self checkouts, bag boys(god I'm old), newspaper delivery (both as kids and adults), etc.... What do we do with these people, or what do they do. Perhaps this is a reason socialism is rearing it's ugly head?
They always need ditch diggers they used to say when someone wasn't qualified to do much more back in the day. So with automated trash trucks where does that person go? If they haven't started yet I'm sure they find another path(or just become a leach on society) but what happens to those who have no desire or skill to do something else? My bet is they become a leach on society most of the time, they cannot go up without training and experience, lets face it nobody hires a 45 year old trash guy for Network administrator when he's cut from his job.
I've worked with hard working people that their current job was the best they could ever hope for skill wise(mental capacity also) and I've worked with geniuses that kept menial jobs as they were lazy.
So at this point they become disenfranchised but expect to be equal to everyone else that have better jobs or are more skilled i suppose. So I raise the question again is this why socialism is beimg sought by those who think it's their answer.
Futuristic shows such as Star Trek shows a society with everyone basically in a socialist society, they don't talk about the guy cleaning the floors but bet his ass was assigned the shitter cleaning job instead of running the photon torpedo controls.

What's your thoughts on this area and please keep it civil.

we'll always have the poor in society.

but you are on to something. all this "automation" and "high tech" has a cost we don't see.

when i was in HS (early 80s), our shop class took a field trip to the nearby Mack Truck plant. fascinating experience. i remember watching one guy, who's only job, was to take straight tubing and bend it just so, following templates, so it would fit into the engine later. i later thought, he does this everyday, 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week. just one task, over and over. i don't want to do that later.

and now we have fancy bending machines that will do that task perfectly, endlessly, and you can change the program anytime you want, and you don't have to pay it, or give it health insurance, or fund its pension. you can even locate that machine in Vietnam, and ship the finished product every month in a Conex box and pay the operator pennies compared to wages in Scranton.

But this is nothing new. the term "sabotage" derived from weavers throwing their sabots into the machines, as they saw their livelihood disappearing with automated weaving looms. that was a long time ago.

guess i'm lucky, but others not so much.

i don't have an answer.

Scrooge-"Are there no prisons?"
"Plenty of prisons..."
Scrooge-"And the Union workhouses." . "Are they still in operation?"
"Both very busy, sir..."
"Those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
Scrooge- "If they would rather die," "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

A different perspective.
When eggie was a young man, commercial HVAC systems were run by pneumatic controls or electro-mechanical. One good serviceman could work on all of it and determine if it was a mechanical breakdown or controls issue. Really good ones could fix both.
Fast forward, we now have every piece of equipment with onboard microprocessors. There is also a computer or multiple computers interconnected. Now we need a service mechanic, an automation guy, and a programmer/integrator to make all of this stuff work correctly.

Smart people adapt and learn new skills. Dumb ones don't and get left behind.

:yesnod:

Socialism - in the form of Universal Basic Income - has been proposed repeatedly as the solution to the loss of low-skill jobs. Perhaps if done correctly maybe it could replace the current welfare and food stamp programs which are widely abused with something simpler and harder to game. :shrug:

Universal Basic Income - aka giving people money for doing nothing - is different from welfare how, exactly?

Socialism has been a complete and utter failure wherever it's been tried. Talk to anyone (except the very elite) from one of the current socialist countries and listen to them. It doesn't work because eventually the government runs out of other peoples' money.

Absolutely.. But what do we do with them... Does it just create a massive divide between haves and have nots(bad example I'm sure). We can't just leave them in limbo as a society as that's never a good Idea. Thus the question since they are being left behind is this why socialism is coming up?

Good point, too bad the country won't make people work for their handout as that's mean now(thanks liberals). They could never do CCC in this state of things but look at all the good it did.

Regardless a project like CCC was never meant to be long term but perhaps it would give people a sense of responsibility and a path to employment elsewhere.

I don't think it's a matter of unskilled labor jobs disappearing as much as it is people no longer want to do those jobs. They feel it's beneath them.

Even some skilled labor is fighting this lack of ambition. Take the construction trades as an example. You can make a decent living welding pipe. But the minute they find out the weld is on top of a coal fired boiler -that's operating- they'll laugh in your face.

:D Been there did it! With that said I really did not enjoy the -20F or lower temperatures when working outside in NY states nasty winters.


Well I never have been laughed at. Tell theme your making $50 per hour and a shitload more on the plentiful overtime available and also get excellent health benefits and a very good pension, that stops all their merriment.


Heck in my case I could take early retirement to a paid for new built house on a big lake, and afford to do just about anything I wanted to do.

Mike Rowe's Dirty Jobs series showed that any job has it's highs and lows. but almost everyone on that show had a smile on their face at the end of the day. they enjoyed their jobs and their earnings. it was honest, but dirty, work.

long ago, i had a job that involved a LOT of travel. and we had a fairly snooty typist (she typed my reports) that wanted to re-write my stuff.

honey, if you want to do my job, you'll need a engineering or architect degree, a professional license (another 4 years minimum), and then you can do this. stay in your lane. and of course, she had 9-5 hours. i had 4am to 10pm hours some days, but only got my 8 hour salary. still interested?

This is the fallacy of a so called living wage from menial jobs. Even if you work at a place 5 years, you will make the same as the guy that was just hired and doesn’t know a thing. It leads to complacency and lack of drive.

I will say that the upcoming tidal wave of solar arrays will need a lot of labor. However, with the border open again, I know who’s going to be building them.

S.Korea will make the panels and inverters, China will make the steel stands, Middle and South America will install them in the US. Yep, lots of high paying Green New Deal jobs coming right up.

I heard that you get more welfare money by popping out more kids. This of course incentivizes women to produce lots and lots of otherwise unwanted offspring. Also, welfare payments typically stop when you find a job, thus dis-incentivizing people to find work.

As I understand it UBI is just a single flat rate for each adult no matter how many children they have or whether they are employed, which would close those loopholes.

Some people just have no drive or ambition, but want money for doing nothing. A good friend's daughter went in the Navy, learned Farsi, got out and got a very high paying intelligence job at the Pentagon. A year later she decided she wanted to be gay, turned into a socialist and quit. Now she's a bartender and is always whining about not making enough money and she's all in favor of Universal Basic Income. Idiots are idiots and always will be.

So what's your solution? You want all those useless people to become homeless and sleep on the street in front of your house? :shrug:

How close to socialism is just being obedient?
Everyone has a different idea of when a job is done and as mentioned some know but don't care. I am told that I am a perfectionist, I see it as I am all in until the task has been completed to its full potential.
"Why bust my ass when someone else can do it and I still get paid" has always been and always will be the attitude a large portion of the workforce!
In some situations I believe that laziness bread automation, with the being said where do these people go? Down the street to the next unsuspecting place to repeat the cycle I suppose

Seems to me that "some" of those folks were finding positions in the trump economy prior to the covid thing. Every place I passed had help wanted signs, was offering free training with no experience required. Seems to me that, given a chance, folks find reward in earning their way, as opposed to being given a fish each day. We have generations of people who have been fed, clothed and coddled at every turn. GENERATIONS, yet they remain poor. Do you think they dont notice? Do you think they saw opportunity in the former trump economy and enjoyed being able to participate? I sure as hell do.

Teach a man to fish.....

That's the only alternative? Seriously? The solution for her in particular is to live within her means, whatever that is. When you have a skill that is in high demand and can get a job that pays very well, you don't get other people's money free just because you're lazy. That's precisely why socialism fails. Why work when you can get free money from the government?

Or by panhandling.

Nope. I didn't really enjoy some of the jobs I had either. MN winters can be pretty tough. We have a couple refineries in our jurisdiction here. I can't think of much worse than dragging ****ing lead across a pipe rack in January.

But that's where the $$ was. I passed on a lot of referrals slapping copper together in better conditions working less hours. What's it gonna be? 40's inside or 7-12's outside? I chose 7-12's almost always.

As an apprentice I saw a lot of new F-150's in the parking lot and there was one way to get one; work. Now? They all want the new truck but not what it takes to get one.

This thread is about people with no marketable skills. What is your solution for them? :popcorns:

Survival of the fittest. Just because you slacked off in high school and chose the wrong path, doesn't make it society's responsibility to provide for your well being. I say this for all able-bodied people. Those unfortunate enough to have been dealt devastating diseases, and the elderly who put in their time during their time, it's a culture's duty to take care of them. It's not a culture's duty to create a society of government sucking sea slugs.

If a person is not learning something new every day and making themselves better, then they are falling further and further behind.

Personal choice has good and bad outcomes. When your choice provides a bad result, it SHOULD HURT, then maybe you'll choose wisely the next time.

Someone's got it right. :cert:

WTF does "no marketable skills" mean? Unless you're disabled and absolutely cannot work you have marketable skills. Why do we import legal and illegal aliens, who have little to no formal education, to do manual labor jobs that American citizens used to do? Because Americans have gotten lazy. Until COVID hit the unemployment rate was at historic lows, to the point that anyone who wanted a job could get one - "wanted" being the important word there.

I was getting out of my car the other day...large strip mall parking lot...and two spots down from me an elderly couple was getting out of theirs. Some character in a wheelchair rolls up to the couple and goes into a diatribe (obviously asking for money).

The old man didn’t even wait for it to end: “I’m sorry I can’t help you” was his remark. The guy in the wheelchair says “You can’t or won’t help me?” “Take your pick” he says. “So this is how you treat your fellow man who served their country?” (By this point I was paying more attention). The old guy spins around, opens his car door and puts on one of those hats that shows what ship he was on in the Vietnam war, puts it on and looks at this idiot: “Listen you jackass...I served with people who were far more damaged than you. They went on to live successful lives, got degrees, raised families. What they didn’t do was roll around a parking lot having a pity party begging for money. You’re not here because you’re disabled...you’re here because you’re lazy and stupid.”

Whoa.:faint:

Wheelchair boy was stunned and speechless. As he walked past me and I reached out and gave him a fist pump. “You’re my hero” I said. “Don’t **** with a 2-star” he responded. His hat said “USS Coral Sea.” :yessir:

The jobs you listed here are all what I’ll call ‘high school kid’ jobs and will always exist. These aren’t the jobs at Ford plant assembly line where you can earn a decent living.

I grew up in a blue collar town in a blue collar home. If you lived in my neighborhood you went to work in one of three places;
3M
Whirlpool
American Hoist.

All those jobs were unskilled but they all paid well enough for the woman of the household to stay home and raise the kids. THOSE are the jobs that are gone.

Places like Skid Row are full of people like this. People like this are why you have human feces on the streets of San Francisco. :yesnod:

It means you slacked off in high school and chose the wrong path, and now the best job you can get is flipping burgers or stocking grocery shelves.

What 16 year old has a marketable skill?

They aren't handed out. They are obtained.

My first job was a busboy. Busboys don't drive nice cars. Busboys don't go on vacation. Busboys don't maintain a relationship with anyone of substance for long. I knew jack shit about doing anything but bussing tables. I did it for a year. Then I got a job making pizzas. I showed initiative and a desire to NOT make pizzas forever and I became an assistant manager. Did I know how to be an assistant manager? Hell no. I was taught...because I SHOWED INITIATIVE. I then got a job in a warehouse and the first day I showed up for work, the HR guy pulled me aside and said, I think we have something better for you. I became a Quality Control Inspector because...I showed interest and initiative during my interview. Then I became a Lab Technician, then moved in to sales and tech support. ALL OF THIS with ZERO experience and ZERO college. I did it because of who I CHOSE to be... and it was not a BUSBOY.

The fktard on the fry machine pulling his phone out every 30 seconds to fk with it, is going to be making fries until he is fired for taking his phone out one too many times. Give that shitbag $15.00 and he will show NO initiative to do anything else that might involve WORK. Keep him hungry and he will have little choice but to get his shit together and move on/up.

This is where my ex completely fkd up. She coddled and provided and spoiled my step-daughter and essentially has made her a very cute, worthless contributor to society. The looks will go soon enough and she had best marry up.

Again...stupid should hurt. Instead of giving a homeless person a buck to get another beer, how about giving him an option to get training to get marketable skills? They have to want it. If they want to learn and want to get off of the street, then let's help them. If all they want is a handout, then again I say survival of the fittest.

Just like elections, choices in life have consequences. Make stupid choices, win stupid prizes. Don't expect the government or taxpayers to bail you out.

No skill can be rectified. No desire is gonna be more difficult to resolve and if that’s how you conduct yourself? Enjoy your cardboard box.

former neighbor gal, she sold her lot and moved to a place about 8 miles south, but we still keep in touch with her (made her a little desk recently and loaned her some tools which i got back). she's 35, has a masters in something (public policy i think), works this little dead end job for the state gov't. says she doesn't want to work, just wants to go shopping and play all day. well, sweetie, you better find a dumb rich guy who will put up with that, because the rest of the successful world has to work to earn their keep.

Ok back on topic a little, we all know people are lazy adn shouldn't be rewarded for such behavior.
Move on from the lazy fuker part as not what i wanted to talk about.

So let's say you're a 40 year old hard worker doing one of these menial jobs such as floor buffer. Along comes a tablet and takes your job , you've worked there 20 years always did a great job and was happy with your station in life that job provided. Suddenly you are on your ass looking for a comparable job salary wise. You're obviously behind the curve in keeping up with "tech" lets say.
Pehaps you're skilled enough and smart enough to goto a tech school and take a few years courses knowing with zero experience your new salary will suck... Perhaps you cannot see a light at the end of the tunnel. So along comes socialism talk, guaranteed income etc. From that person perspective it could sound appealing, yes?

Now throw in a young person of 17 or 18, decent student, decent hard working parents, doesn't want to or cannot afford a 100k degree so desides to join the work force. Normally it'd be a bag boy, floor sweeper, cashier, etc. Well those jobs are not around nearly as much now so what do they do? Nothing half the time I bet and the socialism thing becomes appealing, yes?

Just wondering with socialism type thoughts have wormed their way into the country.

It's always been there, but not as robust as now. No idea why that is. How could a state elect someone like Bernie Sanders knowing what he is and what he wants for the country?

I put part (maybe a lot) of the blame on social media, where you find others with the same view and thoughts. I also blame the media, and people who think if it's on the internet or on the TV it must be true, and so they do no research on their own and they have no clue about how to think for themselves.

If you're lazy socialism sounds good. If you don't know how it's utterly failed in other countries, I can see it sounding good, especially when a prominent politician like Sanders lies about how good it is.

every time we identify some problem in society, the most common response is:

"the gov't should fix that"

and that's the problem.

charity used to be done privately, nice old ladies would run the charity house, they'd screen those seeking handouts, and gently help or guide people in a useful direction.

not anymore.

now Uncle Sam is the first place people go looking for charity. but those running the show have no interest in you besides making their day short and their work load light. it's just a dead end job to them. and they can't say no to bums, they have to follow the rules. you pass the sniff test, you get the money.

there is no easy answer. if there was, we'd have found it by now.

In that case enjoy having them in your neighborhood. Around here they give homeless people the bum's rush, but no sooner is one escorted to the city limits another one pops up to take their place.

I knew someone like that. She was married 4 times. Her biggest priority in life was finding out where all the hot parties were so she could make an entrance.

last text from her was that she had taken a fall and had some head injuries.

There is probably no program, or political philosophy (Socialist or otherwise) that is going to help the guy in the first example. It happened to my dad and the only saving grace was that he happened to be old enough to retire...and did. At my age, even having a marketable skill puts you at a great disadvantage. Us second hand lions are of little value unfortunately. Now, the young pup has options and shame on him if he doesn't use his youth, brains, or whatever asset he has to get a head start way up front because the back side is going to suck for him just as much as the floor buffer if he doesn't run hard and fast and get ahead of the pack.

You're not a second hand lion you're too ****ing expensive. You bring 30 years of experience to the table? They don't care. They can get some snot fresh outta college for 50% of what you'd need.

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but I have the ability to work anywhere in the world. I don't choose to live in big cities, and I have no need for them. Hell, with Biden looking like the winner, I could even consider another country. I was nearly homeless, completely broke, up to my eyeballs in debt, and I pulled myself up...with NO HELP. I am who I am because I wanted more. GWiz is who she is because she has my genes and the environment that we provided, and she kicks my ass on the world stage. That's what parenting is about.

Again, to sum it up, I have the ability to not live where the homeless choose to live. Having said that, if I find the right homeless person who has drive, but needs a benefactor to help them along, my personal charity will help them succeed. :yesnod:

Ugh...you are full of shit. I fixed it for you. :rofl:

OK Mike, you caught me. But how does one buy more beer without money. :)

We all need to make hay while the sun shines, and for now it's shining bright.

And not to offend the others, beer is cheap. I still have a shit ton of that $1,800 scotch. :rofl:

$1800 Scotch??? Jesus....I'll drink my $250 Tequila and buy another watch with the rest! :rofl:

:cert:

i don't drink, so i buy ammo...and ammo is no longer cheap. :faint:

If I want to buy this again from Total Wine, it's now up to $2,100 and change. :willy:

nice box. :DAB:

Nooooo...no no no no....

This is what I'm looking at:

Is it worth it? Asking for me. :shots:

The magnet system is really cool. :yesnod:

So...for my birthday last year I bought myself a 21 year bottle for $650 and it was awesome. It lasted me a year, and I had 1 dram left for this year's birthday so I could compare the 21 to the 25.

With the 25 being 3x the cost, I cannot say that it's "worth the price", but I would say that it's worth 2x the price. The smoothness and flavor was off of the charts. There is a reason they call Macallan 25 the Rolls Royce of Scotch.

Having said all of that, I will absolutely spend $2,100 to get another bottle of this Scotch after I share the rest with Simpleman68 and our Amelia Island Corvette peeps. Planning on a rendezvous in the spring.

I have a lot of disposable income, and Scott introduced me to quality scotch. I will continue to indulge as long as I can, but more importantly, share those indulgences with friends and family.

Couple of years ago the wife got me this for Christmas. It’s pushing $900 now. I’m almost out so thinking what my next high end Scotch will be.

.

You weren’t pouring that when we came over for the red fish dinner:wtf:

Y'all are drunks... :datawiz:

Wow!
That's 51.4 30paks of The High Life.

Yet productive. :datawiz:

Do I have to be homeless? Teach me Obi Wan!:D:kimblair::cert:

I will gladly share the wealth with anyone. Want a personal zoom meeting to discuss, I'll be happy to share what, and how, I do what I do. :cert: Coaching is free. You just need to have the drive.

Back on topic a bit. At work they instituted a new pay raise system. We used to determine top performers and award them with better raises. Some dipshit in HR decided, "Let's give everyone a base percentage raise each year". So we now get the "Blue Ribbon" award to everyone. The top performers get 3% and the low enders get 3%. How hard do you think most work? Not much incentive to bust your ass when he idiot next to you is getting the same pay raise for just getting by. Socialism at it's finest.

I wasn’t? Hmmm... :leaving:


High Life?

.

Hence socialism. :(

:lol: :shots::shots:

Wow that's some bullshit isn't it...

A company that I worked for did govt contract work, we employees were constantly evaluated. They never and i mean never gave a bad review or a well deserved zero pay raise due to govt requirements and wanting to keep profits high as possible by showing what outstanding employees they had.
I can recall one incident a guy was false reporting a massive amount of hours and the customer had never seen the guy. That's the only time I think someone was bad mouthed and made company look bad.

Contrast this with one company I worked for in the distant past. Every year they would evaluate every employee and assign them to one of 3 categories. The top tier got a raise every 12 months. The middle tier got a raise after 13 months. The bottom tier got a raise after 14 months, and if they remained in the bottom tier for too long they got fired.

How's that for incentive? :D

This is why I prefer the system I am on. My salary has barely changed and if someone were to do the math on my base, they'd wonder why I am a happy employee. It's in the bonuses. I prefer it that way. If you get money added to your paycheck, it just gets absorbed in to daily life and pretty soon it's like you never got it at all.
I used this example at one place I worked. I told my boss that if he gave each employee a $200.00 a year raise, he'd piss them off... BUT, if Christmas came and he handed each employee a crisp $100.00 bill, they'd be grateful...and he'd spend half as much.

You probably generated enough brass (which is the most expensive component) this year to allow reloads for 2 years. Make a one time investment in a manual progressive press and you can load (or could before the current panic)1k 9mm for $20 in powder, $25.00 in primers and less than $100 in plated bullets. You choose your power factor, and since you are retired the time is yours to allocate as well.
Component prices are up at present, but it is still about half (or less) as expensive to roll your own.

That's no jelly of the month club.

On topic, what to do with all able bodied folk will require a paradigm shift in society. I suggest we phase the current welfare system out over the next 10 years or so starting with turning it into workfare. Farmer Joe needs to harvest tomatoes? Call the welfare division instead of importing migrants; walla the crop gets picked and the folk on public assistance earn a living while acquiring a marketable skill. Or the local government could use the workforce to complete public works projects like trash removal, blight reduction or the like. Choose a "term limit" for public assistance... if able bodied you either get hired somewhere and make your own way or get a 90 day furlough before you can re-apply. Encourage exit from the program, not reliance thereon.
Homeless and indigent people could sign on for consideration in the same system and benefit from working as well. The logistics would need some fine tuning but since Obamaphones I expect it is doable.
I live in a port city which is also in an area where tree farming is big business. Possibly the most sought after labor in my area are commercial truck drivers. Hell, anyone who can pass a DOT physical and is not mentally impaired should be "trainable" in that capacity. I am certain similar local needs exist all across this country waiting to be fixed. BUT no one who is likely to get elected Nationally has the stones to try something like this so I think we are still F****ed.

why do anything? the economy is just fine with them being unemployed :shots::leaving::bigears:

And that existed in the 30's, https://www.britannica.com/topic/Pub...Administration

It would never fly in today's welfare state...

I agree. It would take another dust bowl depression here to make that a potential reality unless there is sufficient social unrest coupled with insufficient Governmental controls to ignite another civil war. Things in general here are too easy for me to believe that is a genuine possibility.

Because I don't want a bunch of jobless, homeless losers camping out in front of my house? :shrug:

Also because this is exactly how a liberal gets elected... The amount of people sucking on govt tit will guarantee thing remiain the same.

I'm 65 and just retired this year. Like Aerovette, I started at the bottom as a busboy as a part time job. I quit that and got a full time job doing visual inspection, then moved up to doing mechanical inspection, then finally moving to doing measurements on a surface plate using lots of measurement tools I never seen before. Did I have education for this? No, but I showed initiative wanting to learn new things, and it also helped because I liked what I was doing. This finally lead to a field called calibration which I remained in for 40 years.

At one point, I had 2 supervisors, one engineer, and 15 techs reporting to me, including 2 others 500 miles away. With cut backs and the emergence of the CCP virus, my 65th birthing coming up, I decided to retire from the company.

I was recently contacted by the company as they want me to come back as a contractor. They were offering only $70/hr. I said nope - I want $120/hr. They are in the process of getting the contract ready. It will be for only 20 hrs/week with no travel - all working from home.

I think my dad said it best - when I was a kid, we would see some expensive houses and I would ask my dad - where does one get the money to buy that?" My dad would say, "if you work hard and smart, you can make lots of money to buy the things you want. That is why everyone in the world wants to come here and work, because they can be flat broke and become millionaires with hard work."

Wathen1955, I enjoyed the calibration work I did. Huge dynamometers for electric motors. Medium and high voltage stuff all the way down to calibrating crimp tools, calipers, and mics. Working in R&D we were pretty self sufficient. We'd send our standards out once a year and do all the in-house calibration from those. Old standard analog meters used to calibrate the daily use meters. Interesting stuff. I didn't know squat about that stuff until I started doing it.

some years ago, my last company contacted me and wanted my help here locally. they were looking to bid on a large contract, and wanted me to attend the pre-bid meeting downtown. ok, doable. how much are you offering? how much you want? how about $125/hour? long pause...um, can we limit it to 4 hours of involvement? hour travel to town, hour back, hour for the meeting, hour to write things up...sure, agreed.

they have never called me again for anything. fine with me.

"but you are just going to a meeting!"

"yes, i'm going to a meeting as as expert in this topic"

or i could have stayed home, and you could fly someone out here, pay for meals, travel, hotel, and be out $2k. your call.

Problem with the system you are on is called bonus. With our merit raise system they also threw in monthly/quarterly bonuses. Well guess what happens when a panic hits. What is one of the first things to go to save cash. TaDa, bonus. You rely on someone deciding if they should give you 3K or 5K or nothing. About what our Incentive compensation does, a big game of juggle the numbers to get what the big dogs want and then release the payment. One of our "Incentive" base points is diversity and inclusion based off of how much of a percentage of women are in higher job bands.
If I had the choice of a bonus or a higher pay raise, the higher pay raise it would be. Being on a pension plan still, it adds to the overall value of total compensation.

I'm with you. Put it on the check.

Oh I did a good job Mr. Supervisor? Put it on the check.
Oh you're giving me a customer service award? Put it on the check.
Oh I'm employee of the month? Put it on the check.

i don't care about your pointless titles, i have enough t-shirts and mugs and other crap with the company logo, i'm just here for the money. i'll do my best, but a pat on the back doesn't buy groceries.

No wonder you didn't get the job. :rolleyes:

The problem with raises is, that it always ends up coming out of the bonus. A bonus can be given as heavy or light as your manager sees fit. Mine was a large percentage of my salary. There is NO WAY, my company would give me that as a raise and at 3-5% per year it would take way too long to get there organically...actually never, because you are constantly falling behind where you would be if you took the bonus. I have ZERO doubt that if I hit my boss up for a raise, my bonus would reflect it. I'd rather have that fat check than a monthly pittance.

Shit, and I was feeling good about my 18yo Macallan :nonod:

Eat them.

Have any of you ever worked on straight commission?
I mean no work no pay
Well working as an auto tech for 28 years on flat rate I can tell you how being aggressive, passionate, committed and good at your job can be rewarding!
Or a total Cluster-****
There were days when I spent the whole day rebuilding my sons transmission or engine while not getting any real work, meaning no pay
That's what the business was at the time and I made the best of it
Talk about survival of the fittest

Operating a floor buffer is an occupation of skill otherwise, the Army wouldn't have entrusted me with such a valuable, high dollar machine to operate.

Hhmmm..... I didn't know I was working in China making computer grade and solar grade hyper pure polysilicon. They musta named it Tennessee just to trick me. :leaving:

January 4th, the tariffs are off and Tennessee will be another Solyndra. South Korea and a Chinese products will again rule the US.

I was discussing this living wage shit with the wife and her coworkers the other day, most hadn't heard anything about it. A couple asked if they'd get extra pay since they worked harder than the lazy bastards. When told them no the others get to stay home and screw off and get paid the same as you... Then I thanked them for voting for Biden... They had no idea he supported such ideas yet voted for him.
There shouldn't be handouts period(some exceptions of course for handicapped but no reason most couldn't do something also), if I needed assistance I wouldn't feel right not doing anything for it. I suppose most here remember when being on govt assistance was a last resort and nothing to be proud of, now it's a badge of honor it seems.

You do realize that when they placed tariffs on polysilicon it hurt us. We export to China.

We?

Why is it MY job to work my ass off to allow some other sack of shit to be lazy? The number of people "left behind" in this country is extraordinarily small. Disabilities, mental issues, etc. With that said, as the child of a paraplegic father who worked his ass off, even the "disability" argument is almost always a load of shit.

They STAY behind because they choose to stay behind. I have never known a single person who was willing and tried to work hard who was not able to achieve at least a decent living.

You not trying isn't my problem.

...and what's yours? Hand them what I work for so they can sit on their useless asses watching TV and popping out future generations of useless turds?

Cliffs: Not my problem. Don't care. Stop telling me that I should have to pay for everybody else.

Better yet, don't rely on someone else to tell you what you're worth.

I am an engineer by degree and spent enough of my life actually working as an engineer to realize that the business world sucks. I have enough specialized experience that people call me somewhat regularly with job offers that pay quite well. No thanks.

I'm here today in my own shop with some greasy ass Harleys, working my ass off trying to build a business about to eat some Ramen Noodles for lunch... and I couldn't be happier.

I'd rather eat Ramen (for now) and drive a 15 year old Yukon while I build my own business than kiss some douchebag's ass hoping he gives me a good review every year. The thought of working for someone else again and having to play the stupid games trying to get what crumbs get thrown down to employees is all the motivation I need.

P.S. Anybody want to buy a motorcycle? :lol:

You don't have to believe it's your responsibility, or that you should pay for any of it. But let me tell you,, YOU ARE PAYING FOR IT NOW!!! Do you have any idea of the fraud that goes on with SSI? My wife works for the Social Security Administration and she sees this daily. The bad part is that even though they have a fraud investigation dept they won't or just don't investigate it unless it's really a large amount. She reports this when she suspects it but unless the people are getting greedy nothing's done. And SSI isn't the only fraud going on. She has people now that try to apply against a deceased persons benefits and she sometimes finds they were never married and therefore not eligible. Most of the time these things aren't discovered but my wife tends to dig further into these claims than many other agents do. But again they usually will not pursue small fraud amounts. If you're not trying to get benefits from 3 different people at the same time they just don't pursue it.

No shit. ...and yet people want to take even more.

For the last 150 years of the Industrial revolution we have had regular and painful changes in the makeup of the work force. We went from nearly 90% of Americans working on farms and ranches to less than 3% now. Automobiles were predominantly driven by chauffeurs in the late early 1900's. Manufacturing automation, Office automation, ATMS, and dozens of other changes have always impacted the least skilled the most.

One thing we do know is that if you ask the Government to "Fix" the problem they only make it worse.

Let's the free market decide. People will need to learn new skills or invent new ones. But the people will do the best job of it.

Except you're already paying for them if they get welfare or any other sort of public assistance.

The reverse is also true. If we did not have these programs the individual would be dependent on themselves, their families, friends, neighbors and social groups VS the beauracacy that comes with the government programs.

Maybe we should stop paying them from our taxes and support them through charity and work?

I can't argue with that.

Pics of wife, er, motorcycle? :bigears:

What are you, a capitalist? :slap: