This is what the Assoc. of American Physicians and Surgeons were saying...
 

about masks and COVID-19 less than one month ago. This is before wearing them became massively politicized. You can read the whole thing, but this is the gist of it:

It's common sense, scientifically supported, and no Karen wearing that cute baklava does exactly nothing to save grandma.

Key word is "HEALTHY" unless you know for sure with 100% certainty that you are not asymptomatic your mask protects me and my family!
A face covering keeps one from spewing out germs, its up to us to not touch our orifices allowing germs to enter

That must be why they say this: Notice they say they're "ineffective at preventing...transmission...worn as source control..." I guess you and others know more than the Docs. :seasix:

doesn't matter.

Not sure who "they" is

Didn't bother to read the linked report, huh? It's not that long. It's from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. That's who "they" are.

Here's a quote in the report from the New England Journal of Medicine, they're kinda smart and respected: You really should read it. Seriously. It's chock full of facts and has no politics or emotion. It completely debunks mask wearing as protective of the public.

Another interesting fact from the report:

Smart people wear masks.

Be willing to bet she doesn't vote.

Sit 6 feet away from the Petrie dish and repeat that experiment. ;)

I just hope that she doesn't breed.

I didn't do the original one. It's published in a peer-reviewed journal if you care to read it - which I doubt you do. It's much easier to argue semantics and "common sense" than real facts. You've learned well from Doug. :seasix:

but... but, if this doesn't support the cults position, then these Physicians and Surgeons are:

racist
sexist
bigoted
homophobes

Ummm, no...they don't.

And of course peer-reviewed studies are never wrong and never contradict each other...

Of course that's possible. I typically read them before saying they're wrong. YMMV. :D

"Possible" is an understatement - it's an everyday occurrence. And not just WRT COVID-19. :yesnod:

How many people still believe that eating fat causes heart disease and that removing all the fat from our food and replacing it with sugar was a good thing for society? One look at the official "food pyramid" says it all.

I'm touching my orifice right now! Pics on request.

i wear one to keep the clerks and Karens of the world from yelling at me or kicking me out of the store.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons

Ah, so they disagree with the very left-wing physicians organizations and aren't demanding that citizens be disarmed. That makes them very unplus double-bad thinkers. Wikipedia then shits all over them, as is their way. Nice! No reason to challenge their various assertions backed by facts that they cite. Nope, they are not Approved By The Left, so they are bad and must be disregarded.

This is the game that is played, and keep in mind that if you ask almost any physician, which I talk to a lot of them, it's about evenly split between the Karens and the Non-Karens. They can't even agree, but there is one thing. Back in March every one of them, including the insufferable Brix and Fauci, claimed that wearing masks was not something that should be done by the general public. But one group has since aligned with the political will of one side, the left. Neat!

Wikipedia would never allow their anonymous editors to classify the AMA as "a very liberal left wing doctor's organization". Nah, they are just politically normal, right?

There's a reason I left that group in the wake of them endorsing Obamacare. They are still sending me "dues invoices." :rofl:

Yep. Play the game or else. I hate it, but it is what it is.

I’m actually at Watkins Glen for a track event right now, and these boys ain’t playing ! Either mask up or GTFO. No exceptions. IR scan before entering the track and no vendors period. We are making it work, but damn.

BTW- the event organizer CHIN is based in Florida. Guess what ? They didn’t drive their rig as to not get stopped by the cops. 10K fine in NY for plates from Fla, Tx, AZ and a couple other Republican states.

Yep this. If it helps fine. If it does not that is fine too.:D

Tom,

Do you have to wear the mask with your helmet while in your car????

If I’m with anyone else in the car, yes. But then again, I wear a fireproof balaclava every time anyway. It’s a pain for the student. I have a Roux helmet with integrated headphone mic system. My student has to hear and talk around the mask. I’ve been teaching via hand signals mostly. If I talk it’s because he did something to scare me. Lol

:seasix: sounds like a pain in the ass.

Better protection than a mask is a plastic bag secured around your head. :shots::leaving:

This is like non athletes arm chair quarterbacking a game. :rofl:

Most of you commenting back and forth have absolutely NO fuggin clue about virology and have had NO KNOWN exposure or dealings with COVID.


I have been treating and working with COVID patients before we were even advised COVID was confirmed to be in the USA.


I can assure you I know exactly how to avoid getting it. And argue it all you want MASKS work when worn by EVERYONE in certain situations.

All you have to look at is companies that have required masks and those that have not and the spread of COVID in those facilities.

DO I wear mine outside NO

DO I wear mine when in a large store and there are very few people and I have excellent control over social distancing NO

DO I wear mine when in a jam packed grocery store YES

DO I wear one everyday at work because I have to Yes, but would do it even if it was not mandated because I care about my patients as well as my own health.

Do I have friends over and wear a mask, NO, we are OUTSIDE and stay safely apart.


This whole freaking world needs a strong ass dose of COMMON SENSE.

I’m gonna order these for the rare times I’m forced to wear one. :D

Come on Stev~E, you seem to be a pretty smart guy. You trly cannot tell me that if 2 people have masks on that does not decrease the viral shed/transmission!

So If I invited you to go help me care for a patient with COVID, since you are deeming masks utterly useless, I'l let you just go commando. :funniest:

Treating patients is just a teeny tiny bit different than, for example, shopping. But you already knew that. :seasix:

In a bad flu season 100,000 people or more die from flu, but we don’t wear masks. Why not? Do those deaths not matter?

This is an unfair question. If I asked you to go fight a fire with me and don't wear any fire gear, would you? Hell no. We are purposely entering a FIRE.

Now, would I wear fire gear every time I left the house JUST IN CASE I wander in to a fire? Hell no.

Actually, during flu season I do wear a mask, as do the highest risk patients (cancer patients etc). Flu is not as contagious or deadly as COVID, but we have been through those facts. Also no immunization and NO known treatment. I can give my patients antivirals to fight influenza.

Here's the rub. We can keep bitching and moaning about mask wearing and "freedoms being taken away" and we will get some of our communities shut down again because too many people cannot be trusted to be responsible about social distancing.

So I, without hesitation, say, wear the fuggin' mask so we ALL can get some sense of normalcy back into our lives. Now, if your county has virtually no cases, fine, let your local government asses and make adjustments. Here in Oklahoma, too many backwoods hillbillies that think, oh it won't affect me, I ain't wearin' no mask!"

The same people complaining about mask are probably the same that will refuse the vaccine. :thomas:

Local man that thought this virus was a joke, took minimal precautions. He got COVID, but he pulled through, his wife did not. He will have to "Live" with that the rest of his life.

Well, that is a complete jackass comparison, you can see fire jack hole. :rofl: You know, smoke/fire and all.


I know you work in a facility that makes COVID tests, they have any that let those infected glow green or something so we all know??? :nutkick:

And no, treating a patient is absolutely NO different than shopping.


WHY?


If I am intubating a patient and they cough/sneeze/talk they shed viral particles. If I am in line at the grocery store, and some jackass passes me or comes up behind me in line and sneezes/laughs/coughs..... same same.

:island14: Most likely. Bill Gates involved? Fauci? I'm out.

And we're not complaining about wearing a mask, we are pointing out that it's a social engineering exercise. If a "mask" is a scarf, baklava, or any other non-corona-virus-certified mask (as is almost anything anyone can get their hands on) then it's completely pointless and probably counterproductive.

I’m absolutely sure I’ve worn respirators (not paper or cloth masks, but actual respirators) more than anybody here. I’ve gone in a room with enough airborne plutonium to kill you if you took two breaths without a supplied air suit. In deciding what PPE is appropriate for a hazard we use what’s called a graded approach. We don’t require respirators “just in case” or for hazards with almost no chance of happening. I hate hearing someone say “you can’t be too safe” because that’s absolutely untrue.

When do we get to stop wearing masks for this virus? Once a vaccine exists and 40% of the population don’t get it, then what? What if no effective vaccine exists for another 2 years, do we wear masks (and social distance, and drive people and businesses bankrupt, etc, etc, etc) for years?

We flattened the curve. In fact, there was no curve in most of the country to flatten. Hospitals are begging people to come in because we’ve scared or banned people from getting needed healthcare. This virus is real. Our reaction to it has been absurd from day 1.

And then there's the whole "intubation is the answer" and "toss them in a nursing home" thing.

5 days of hydrochloroquine, azithromycin, and zinc....then send 'em home,

Yeah, well, we all know what the "experts" think about that, right? But $2300/treatment Remdesivir That Fauci is pushing? It works! Trust him, he's fully invested in the company that makes it. But $0.30/pill HCQ? It'll kill ya!

Well, now that we have let a SARS virus infecting America, we now, like ASIA, may have to wear masks as a new norm, IN CERTAIN scenarios and counties/areas where COVID is prevalent.

You really cannot compare radiation to virus. Radiation does not use our bodies as a portal to "infect" others. I won't claim to be an expert on radiation, that's your game, but I sure as hell know a lot about infection control.

If your county has no cases, yea, I think that having mandatory mask regulations are silly. BUT, in cities where that is NOT the case, like here, where we are have 500+ cases a day and my ICU beds are filling up AGAIN..... wear the mother F'ing mask before you kill more innocent people.

Screw all the political talk surrounding this, I don't give a chit about politics, I care about innocent lives being lost.

See, this is exactly what I am talking about.

Exactly how many people have you treated for COVID to base your opinions on?

:rofl:

These I feel are helpful in the very early stages of the illness. ALL of our patients that made the nasty turn for the worse, once they got to that point of coming to the ER and being admitted, none of the above showed ANY efficacy, so it was removed from our hospitals protocol, and we are a multi state facility.

Some studies do show that this is effective PRE illness as a preventative.

I am taking high dose c/zinc daily.

Baklava is a Greek dessert item. I think the word you seek is balaclava. If you wish to be considered a serious researcher and not a misinformed citizen at least get your terminology straight.
We now return you to scheduled programming already in progress.

It is very interesting to see the difference in views between medical and non medical staff.

OK, you got me there on an auto-correct. Good job. Serious researcher? I think most people here on this forum know that I don't just pull shit out of my proverbial ass, but hey, whatever.

You so easily dismiss.

So when this happens, people refusing to get the Bill Gates vaccine, you're going to just look down on them as some sort of yokels or something? I'm not anti-vacc, it's just that he has a track record. And it's frankly terrifying.

I'm posting links from both "left" and "right" sites so I don't get baklava on my balaclava.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bill-...b69358ef8a9803

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN15N13K

right-wing youtube

Come again?

Your choice of wording, syntax and punctuation are the only criteria we who read your (or anyone's) posts have to judge the "worth" of your words so yes, be certain your posting says what you want it to. Just like the shallow fools who insist on "cliffs" because they are too lazy to truly invest in sharing here, blaming auto correct is shallow defense. Proof your postings and I for one will consider your musings more seriously.

Nailed it.


Like I said, like old fat guys on their couch, arm chair quarterbacking the super bowl players.

:funniest:

Cliffs? :rofl:

Up yours. :lol:

You. So. Easily. Dismiss.

I don't have to treat a single one to speak to this issue. It's kinda funny how anyone would even assume that was a prerequisite. I don't really care much, this is but a tiny forum.

The amazing thing is they are also constitutional law experts.:leaving:

Ah, see? This is exactly why grandma is going to die because you're not wearing that mask. She knows that the Constitution and all conjugates have a capital C.

Your comparison is no different. I can SEE the person is in the ICU and you already told me we were going in.

:rofl:

This is meant to be lighthearted and thanks MrPeabody, you get it!

Do you think the mechanic at the dealership knows more than the hot-rodder in his garage?

Do you think the kid at Autozone knows more about cars than you?

The job doesn't make you an automatic expert in the field. Maybe better tools, but that's no guarantee you can use them.

I went to an ear doctor today that asked ME what antibiotic I wanted. :island14:

I said, I mean no offense, but shouldn't you know what I need?

My grammar gets much better the more I drink, and it's still early on the west coast.:yesnod:

Sir, in order to make sure you get the right windshield wiper blades, I'll have to know what size engine your truck has, and also whether it's 4wd or not. I'm a trained professional.

Luckily these folks are wearing masks. So responsible.


Guy at Home Depot not wearing a mask? Killing grandmas every five minutes.

Guy in red smashing the bank window? Baklava mask, which is a mask made of a sweet honey and nut treat coated in mask fabric.

I lost both my grammars years ago, but I still miss them.

:dance:

Sure, just let me get a glass of chocolate milk and 15 minutes...

Wait, what?

Come again? I went to the Autozone last week bearing an Autozone battery for my Ranger, Told the sales wimp I wanted to replace the battery in question with a new one just like that and the fool couldn't even search his database by part number to determine if he had a replacement in stock. In frustration I told the assembled staff I had a 2004 Ford Ranger with a 4.0 liter v6 and needed a new battery. It took 3 salesholes 5 minutes to decide i wanted a replacement battery of the exact part number of the core I had arrived with.
So NO, the kid at the Vatozone and all his coworkers are assholes who know jack shit about cars but they get paid as if they did, and actually gave a shit, anyway.

I think you are a cool lady and all, and at the risk of alienating you on this forum, I would like to say that you are also caught up in the politics of it. To a depth that you don't recognize because you are too close. If you could be objective and understand that we all know this virus can kill you...there is no doubt. But so can a million other things and at a HIGHER probability than COVID. You will never, in 5 lifetimes, convince me that someone dodged a bullet because of a 99 cent bandanna. That piece of cloth will never be the difference between life and death. You will never convince me that EVERY patient in the ICU didn't wear a mask. You will never convince me that a 99.6 or 99.8% survival rate warrants the actions being taken. You will never convince me that more people have the virus today, than did 8 weeks ago. You will never convince me that a kid on a swing set in a park with his mom is more is a health risk or in more danger than a rock throwing arsonist thug in Minneapolis.

You are too close to be objective. I stand my my analogy that the war from the soldier's perspective is very different than from the general's. You are surrounded by sick and dying and think we are all going to be sick and dying. If I was surrounded by beautiful bikini clad women feeding me grapes, I would think the world was a pretty awesome place. Same world, different view.

:seasix::cert:

That's my point. There is a doctor somewhere that thinks a fellow doctor doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. They are not automatically right because they got through college. The title doesn't make you an expert. Fauci for example.

This thread so far:

It's a given we're being COVID-played,

Nancy Pelosi is hoarding expensive ice cream.

The DNC killed Seth Rich.

Michelle Obama has a penis.

Any questions?

Hyperbole much?

Not once have I said we were all gonna die from this.

Not once have I said a bandana was the answer.

Not once have I even slightly implied that everyone should wear a mask everywhere they go.

I don't watch the news on this topic, so no, I don't give a crap about the politics.

By seeing the posts on my FB feed, it is easy to derive that the leftist liberals seem to be pushing masks for all, all the time, stay HOME... and right wingers are anti mask and pro give me my freedom, this is just the flu!

I am in the middle, proper masks in the proper scenario.

Not that hard really.

Dumbasses abound on either side.

It is ostrich like to assume this is just grandma, just the flu and just the sick that are dying. When it is your loved one that dies, get back to me on the above "just" list and let me know.

That is the case in ANY profession, that is no new news.


Holy shit, people will debate for months the best part on a car, you think they wont disagree on a complex subject like this?

Some docs hand out opioids like it is candy and have had tons of their patients overdose, they see NO problem with how they practice medicine. Other docs hand out antibiotics to everyone with allergies or a virus.... having that degree does not mean you will make good decisions.

YES! And that pretty much applies to all the "experts" on any given subject. I can't even begin to tell you how much a PC gaming platform is better than a gaming console, but then I can't even begin to tell you how much better Linux is than Windows. But actually I can.

I can't tell you if thorium is a better candidate for a nuclear reactor, or perhaps a hydrogen isotope. But I can tell you that nuclear fusion will kick the ass of thorium, and thorium reactors would be much better than current uranium reactors. But better might not even be a term that would apply. So you want to get into the weeds? Complicated things are complicated but when trying to dissect why our economy was almost destroyed because of the WuFlu, things simplify greatly. First thing: Orange Man Bad Second Thing: Billions of Dollars at stake : Third thing: Delicious Baklava

I guess I am absolutely 100% confused about your position. I read one post that goes one way and the next goes the other way. I don't know if I have piss poor comprehension, or you are struggling with this issue and are just not certain what to think. I'm certainly willing to accept that it is me and I'm just reading it all wrong.

My position, on the other hand is very succinct.

The virus is real, everything outside of that fact is bullshit.

All this discussion about how masks don't work and not one reason why not!
According to some we don't need to cough or sneeze into our sleeve anymore yet mankind has been doing it for years to prevent spreading germs
BOY WERE WE WRONG, now I can just let it fly

How the hell have you become confused, I think I have made it very clear my position.

I also made it clear that there are doctors out there that are stupid.

Is that helpful?

"The virus is real, everything outside of that is bullshit!" Ummm, come on man..... low information much.

Since some hate reading, we will do picture time. cliffs:


https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...67&oe=5F23B3B5

Sarcasm and personal attacks don't fit you.

There are a whole bunch of peer-reviewed studies in the link posted earlier, most of which conclude that cloth masks and bandannas do very little to prevent the spread of this virus. Did you read those? Are they all wrong?

All the media talks about for Florida is the "surge" in cases, without talking about the rate of positive cases, the rate of hospitalizations, or the death rate. Why is that? Could it be because those other stats, which I'd offer are far more important than the raw number of new cases, doesn't support the argument for masks, more lockdowns, and other draconian measures? Nah, that couldn't be it.

While the raw number of cases here is "surging," hospitals are largely empty and the number of CV deaths is dropping by the day.

This isn't really an argument about masks, it's an argument about a giant overreaction by health "experts" who can't ever admit they're wrong, and giant overreach by politicians, who have the same problem with ever admitting they're wrong. History won't be kind to how this was handled.

Healthy people who are not sneezing, coughing, and flinging spittle in all directions aren't the ones spreading this disease. There's zero evidence that someone who isn't showing any symptoms can spread this through their exhalations, and surgical masks aren't designed to stop particles the size of this virus anyway. But this isn't really about evidence or science, is it? The goalposts constantly shift, there is no real goal in sight that would allow us to return to normal. "Wait until a vaccine!" Uh, name one vaccine for a corona virus that works? "Wait until the election, we got to destroy the economy good and hard" is more like it.

And about that vaccine. The "experts" can't even say definitively whether you are immune from the virus after contracting it and getting over it. Think about that! But their vaccine will make you immune? Really? But actually having it might not? Such science, such brilliant!

What type of mask?

That is correct...directly sneezing, coughing, singing, and talking into a petri dish...
...and then; biologist setting it up for growth will reveal ....growth.


Didja know you can actually drink liquid ice? :bigears:

Sarcasm not fit me. Haha. You don’t know me do you.


Yea, I read articles several times per week. And I’m not referencing “cloth” masks. Some are good some are not. Hold a bandanna up to the light, even if folded over twice you can see through it. Not what I am talking about.

Not promoting “draconian” measures either. I am supporting masks in CERTAIN scenarios so we can open back up


I do believe many here were telling me that the heat of summer would abolish this virus. Think we all know now that is complete BS.

Wrong. Plenty of proof. But what does a front line provider know?

Case in point. Man got COVID, he had no symptoms of fever, cough etc, slight sore throat. He thought it was his typical allergies. His high risk wife had NOT LEFT the home, complete isolation. Guess what, she got it and became critically ill. So I know that asymptomatic patients spread it. As much as a highly symptomatic patient, no, but they still have viral shedding.

Confused as to why so many are in such denial about simple things.

For me it's not so much denial, as it is the ever-changing goalposts and guidance from medical "experts." We were initially told by the "experts" DON'T WEAR MASKS, then we were told - by the same "experts" - WEAR MASKS ALL THE TIME. If you listen closely to what the "experts" actually say, including the CDC Director and Dr. Fauci, they use the word "believe" a lot. They believe masks help. They believe asymptomatic spread is the primary cause of the spread. They believe a lot of things, but don't seem to "know" much.

In science facts matter, beliefs not so much.

Never once during this entire pandemic have I heard "Do not wear a mask".

I think they were discouraging people buying is mass as there was a shortage for healthcare workers. But again, I don't watch the news to get my info.

Honestly, one of the main failures of masks is user error.

Here is an article with additional references cited at the end of the article.

Masks DO lower transmission rates, that is not debatable. Proven... now, if some lay person touches the mask constantly, improperly puts it on and takes off (just like gloves) the mask is probably doing more harm than good truthfully.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2764955

People aren't in denial.
People are tired of fake reports, numbers, stats circulated on the news and inner webs.



The COVID bug is terrible.
some people have died
some people get it easier than others
some people don't get it
some people spread it


Those are facts that nobody is denying.

They do... :seasix:

but...
...so does washing your hands, having good public hygiene practices (covering sneezes and coughs), and staying home when sick.

Huh? Here’s what the CDC said in late March:

Why don't people wear masks at home? I have yet to find anyone that does. I have asked many times. The mantra is "Masks aren't to protect you, they are to protect others". Ok, so what that says is you care more about total strangers in Wally World, than the kids in your own house.

The CANCER is terrible.
some people have died
some people get it easier than others
some people don't get it
some people spread it (HPV related)

The FLU bug is terrible.
some people have died
some people get it easier than others
some people don't get it
some people spread it

The TUBERCULOSIS bug is terrible.
some people have died
some people get it easier than others
some people don't get it
some people spread it

The MEASLES are terrible.
some people have died
some people get it easier than others
some people don't get it
some people spread it

The SMALLPOX bug is terrible.
some people have died
some people get it easier than others
some people don't get it
some people spread it

The SHINGLES bug is terrible.
some people have died
some people get it easier than others
some people don't get it
some people spread it

The AIDS bug is terrible.
some people have died
some people get it easier than others
some people don't get it
some people spread it

But we only kill economies and press our thumbs on the general public for ONE of these. :mad:

Which one?

The one that was quoted.

Sure...because it's the only one/scam available to take down what the Trump admin. built....that's why the MSM and haters wont let it die.

That's why Trump rallies spread COVID , but rioting and looting doesnt...nor does huge protests with people snotting, spitting, and sweating cooties on each other. :island14:

:thumbsup: Why you cannot get your info from MSM or news outlets with a political agenda.

People are denying that masks are effective at reducing transmission and need not be worn, I could be missing something, but I thought that was the discussion at hand here.

:popcorns::popcorns::popcorns:


BTW, morning KayJune. :kiss:

Yep. yep and yep. :cert:

:99pewtercoupe:
Well I am fighting both battles. Why I am leading up the LDLCT program at my hospital to preform early detection and screen for lung cancer.

It is OK to care about more than one ailment, and I DO.

I think you all do not understand that my stance comes from one of caring about people and not of a political view. I feel that many I have debated with on here are laser focused on the politics of this virus. I am not.

Yes, they need to bring up their political views to stroke their own egos