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-   -   "Oba-ma-self... don' wanna be... Oba-ma-self..." - UK says no to strike on Syria (https://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56238)

ApexOversteer 08-29-2013 04:43pm

"Oba-ma-self... don' wanna be... Oba-ma-self..." - UK says no to strike on Syria
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by New York Times

WASHINGTON — President Obama is prepared to move ahead with a limited military strike on Syria, administration officials said on Thursday, even with a rejection of such action by Britain’s Parliament, an increasingly restive Congress, and lacking an endorsement from the United Nations Security Council.

Although the officials cautioned that Mr. Obama had not made a final decision, all indications suggest that the strike could occur as soon as United Nations inspectors, who are investigating the Aug. 21 attack that killed hundreds of Syrians, leave the country. They are scheduled to depart Damascus, the capital, on Saturday.

The White House is to present its case for military action against Syria to Congressional leaders on Thursday night. Administration officials assert that the intelligence will show that forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad carried out the chemical weapons attack in the suburbs of Damascus.

The intelligence does not tie Mr. Assad directly to the attack, officials briefed on the presentation said, but the administration believes that it has enough evidence to carry out a limited strike that would deter the Syrian government from using these weapons again.

Mr. Obama, officials said, is basing his case for action both on safeguarding international standards against the use of chemical weapons and on the threat to America’s national interests posed by Syria’s use of those weapons. Administration officials said that threat was both to allies in the region, like Turkey and Israel, and to the United States itself, if Syria’s weapons fell into the wrong hands.

M. Obama’s rationale for a strike creates a parallel dilemma to the one that President George W. Bush confronted 10 years ago, when he decided to enter into a far broader war with nearly 150,000 American troops in Iraq — one that the Obama administration says differed sharply from its objectives in Syria — without seeking an authorizing resolution in the United Nations. In that case, they said, Mr. Bush was seeking to overthrow the Iraqi government. In this one, they argue, he is reinforcing an international ban on the use of chemical weapons, and seeking to prevent their use in Syria or against American allies, including Turkey, Jordan and Israel.

Russia and China, Syrian allies and permanent members of the Security Council, have so far refused to support any military action against Mr. Assad. But Mr. Obama, his aides say, has reached what one called “a pragmatic conclusion” that even the most ironclad evidence that chemical weapons were used would not change Russia’s objections.

“We have been trying to get the U.N. Security Council to be more assertive on Syria even before this incident,” Benjamin J. Rhodes, the deputy national security adviser for strategic communications, said Thursday in an interview. “The problem is that the Russians won’t vote for any accountability.”

The decision not to wait for the British Parliament to endorse a strike is notable, however. Mr. Bush relied on what he called a “coalition of the willing,” led by Britain. Mr. Obama has made clear that the initiative here would come from the United States, and that while he welcomes international participation, he is not depending on the involvement of foreign forces for what will essentially be an operation conducted entirely by the United States, from naval vessels off the Syrian coast.

One central piece of the White House intelligence, officials say, is an intercepted telephone call in which a Syrian commander seems to suggest that the chemical attack was more devastating than intended. “It sounds like he thinks this was a small operation that got out of control,” one intelligence official said Thursday.

Mr. Rhodes and other aides insist that there are major differences from the decision that faced Mr. Bush in 2003. “There is no direct parallel with 2003, given that the United States at that time had to prove the existence of weapons of mass destruction in a country where we were going to do a military intervention aimed at regime change,” Mr. Rhodes said.

The current American objective, officials say, is to halt future use of chemical weapons rather than remove the leadership that allowed their use. Mr. Obama has referred, somewhat vaguely, to reinforcing “international norms,” or standards, against the use of chemical weapons, which are categorized as weapons of mass destruction even though they are far less powerful than nuclear or biological weapons.

[Kim Jong Il]Poor Obama, he so ronrey.[/Kim Jong Il]

bill_daniels 08-29-2013 04:58pm

Good for the UK. I guess they learned their lesson getting dragged into our last two (big) wars (not counting the war on Libya).

Broken Wind 08-30-2013 05:50am

Great headline!

Cybercowboy 08-30-2013 06:24am

If GWB ignored congress, didn't get the UN behind him, didn't get even our most reliable ally behind him, and attacked a foreign state - one backed by our arguably most powerful adversary - well the media would be going ape shit about right now.

But it's Obama, he's The One. He knows he owns the media. Democrats, this is what you have wrought, an imperial presidency. Disgusting. The hypocrisy is completely off the scale.

Craig 08-30-2013 08:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy (Post 1028689)
If GWB ignored congress, didn't get the UN behind him, didn't get even our most reliable ally behind him, and attacked a foreign state - one backed by our arguably most powerful adversary - well the media would be going ape shit about right now.

But it's Obama, he's The One. He knows he owns the media. Democrats, this is what you have wrought, an imperial presidency. Disgusting. The hypocrisy is completely off the scale.

Let's not forget, his "intelligence" source is the rebel force that gains the most from this ego-strike.

DukeAllen 08-31-2013 08:54am

The One won't be happy until he matches his biography...in "Revelations". :leaving:

TR6speed 08-31-2013 12:58pm

If and when hw orders this limited strike, he better be ready to do more, because I don't see it ending with a hand full of Tomahawks. You can bet Syria and possible Iran will do something about it.
He opened his big mouth and now he will have to pay the price. I hope he is ready for what may come of this strike.

mrvette 08-31-2013 04:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TR6speed (Post 1029233)
If and when hw orders this limited strike, he better be ready to do more, because I don't see it ending with a hand full of Tomahawks. You can bet Syria and possible Iran will do something about it.
He opened his big mouth and now he will have to pay the price. I hope he is ready for what may come of this strike.

It's the DEfunded .mil who carry the brunt of the bullshit, HE could care less, it fits the liberal/progressive/communist agenda going on for many decades now....Korea, VN, now islam.....and WE FUND islam through OIL.....

time to eliminate islam.....had we fought the way we should have fought over the last ~60 years or so, there would be a much better world, but NO, the communists are carrying the sway in our .gov now....

:issues::sadangel:

bill_daniels 08-31-2013 06:46pm

It Will Be Interesting to See What Happens When Congress Says No, No War on Syria
 
I'm betting our Fuhrer will just go ahead and wage war in violation of the Constitution (without Congressional approval), and yet again, nothing will happen. I don't understand why when those in government violate the Constitution, they are not arrested and charged. Lord knows that happens often enough. *cough* NDA *cough*


Obama to seek congressional OK for Syria action






August 31

By DAVID ESPO

AP Special Correspondent


WASHINGTON — Short on support at home and allies abroad, President Barack Obama unexpectedly stepped back from a missile attack against Syria on Saturday and instead asked Congress to support a strike punishing Bashar Assad's regime for the alleged use of chemical weapons.




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With Navy ships on standby in the Mediterranean Sea ready to launch their cruise missiles, Obama said he had decided the United States should take military action and that he believes that as commander in chief, he has "the authority to carry out this military action without specific congressional authorization."

At the same time, he said, "I know that the country will be stronger if we take this course and our actions will be even more effective." His remarks were televised live in the United States as well as on Syrian state television with translation.

Congress is scheduled to return from a summer vacation on Sept. 9, and in anticipation of the coming debate, Obama challenged lawmakers to consider "what message will we send if a dictator can gas hundreds of children to death in plain sight and pay no price."

The president didn't say so, but his strategy carries enormous risks to his and the nation's credibility, which the administration has argued forcefully is on the line in Syria. Obama long ago said the use of chemical weapons was a "red line" that Assad would not be allowed to cross with impunity.

Nor would the White House say what options would still be open to the president if he fails to win the backing of the House and Senate for the military measures he has threatened.

Only this week, British Prime Minister David Cameron suffered a humiliating defeat when the House of Commons refused to support his call for military action against Syria.

Halfway around the world, Syrians awoke Saturday to state television broadcasts of tanks, planes and other weapons of war, and troops training, all to a soundtrack of martial music. Assad's government blames rebels in the Aug. 21 attack, and has threatened retaliation if it is attacked.

Russian President Vladimir Putin, saying he was appealing to a Nobel Peace laureate rather than to a president, urged Obama to reconsider. A group that monitors casualties in the long Syrian civil war challenged the United States to substantiate its claim that 1,429 died in a chemical weapons attack, including more than 400 children.

By accident or design, the new timetable gives time for U.N. inspectors to receive lab results from the samples they took during four days in Damascus, and to compile a final report. After leaving Syria overnight, the inspection team arrived in Rotterdam a few hours before Obama spoke.

The group's leader was expected to brief Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Sunday.

Administration officials said Obama appeared set on ordering a strike until Friday evening. After a long walk in near 90-degree temperatures around the White House grounds with Chief of Staff Denis McDonough, the president told his aide he had changed his mind.

These officials said Obama initially drew pushback in a two-hour session attended by Vice President Joe Biden, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, Director of National Intelligence James Klapper, CIA Director John Brennan, national security adviser Susan Rice and homeland security adviser Lisa Monaco. They declined to say which of the participants had argued against Obama's proposal.

Whatever Congress ultimately decides, the developments marked a stunning turn.

France is Obama's only major foreign ally to date for a strike, public polling shows support is lukewarm in the United States, and dozens of lawmakers in both parties have signed a letter urging Obama not to act without their backing. Outside the gates of the White House, the chants of protesters could be heard as the president stepped to a podium set up in the Rose Garden.

Had he gone ahead with a military strike, Obama would have become the first U.S. leader in three decades to attack a foreign nation without mustering broad international support or acting in direct defense of Americans. Not since 1983, when President Ronald Reagan ordered an invasion of the Caribbean island of Grenada, has the U.S. been so alone in pursuing major lethal military action beyond a few attacks responding to strikes or threats against its citizens.

By day's end Saturday, the White House had sent Congress a draft of a resolution, crafted by the White House, to authorize Obama to use military force.

The draft does not lay out a specific timeline or course of military action, instead giving Obama approval to use the military as he determines "necessary and appropriate" to meet the objective of preventing future chemical weapons use. But in an overture to the limited scope of the strike Obama has said he's considering, the draft affirms the administration's view that ultimately, only a political solution can resolve the crisis in Syria.

House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said he expected the House to consider the measure the week of Sept. 9. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he, too, will hold a vote no later than the week of Sept. 9, with public hearings starting next week.

Republicans generally expressed satisfaction at Obama's decision to seek congressional support, and challenged him to make his case to the public and lawmakers alike that American power should be used to punish Assad.

"We are glad the president is seeking authorization for any military action in Syria in response to serious, substantive questions being raised," Boehner and other House Republican leaders said in a joint statement.

New York Republican Rep. Peter King was among the dissenters, strongly so. "President Obama is abdicating his responsibility as commander in chief and undermining the authority of future presidents," he said. "The president doesn't need 535 members of Congress to enforce his own red line."

For now, it appeared that the administration's effort at persuasion was already well underway.

The administration plunged into a series of weekend briefings for lawmakers, both classified and unclassified, and Obama challenged lawmakers to consider "what message will we send to a dictator" if he is allowed to kill hundreds of children with chemical weapons without suffering any retaliation.

At the same time, a senior State Department official said Secretary of State John Kerry spoke with Syrian Opposition Coalition President Ahmed Assi al-Jarba to underscore Obama's commitment to holding the Assad government accountable for the Aug. 21 attack.

Obama said Friday he was considering "limited and narrow" steps to punish Assad, adding that U.S. national security interests were at stake. He pledged no U.S. combat troops on the ground in Syria, where a civil war has claimed more than 100,000 civilian lives.

In Syria, some rebels expressed unhappiness with the president, one rebel commander said he did not consider Obama's decision to be a retreat. "On the contrary, he will get the approval for congress and then the military action will have additional credibility," said Qassem Saadeddine.

"Just because the strike was delayed by few days doesn't mean it's not going to happen," he said.

With Obama struggling to gain international backing for a strike, Putin urged him to reconsider his plans. "We have to remember what has happened in the last decades, how many times the United States has been the initiator of armed conflict in different regions of the world, said Putin, a strong Assad ally. "Did this resolve even one problem?"

Even the administration's casualty estimate was grist for controversy.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an organization that monitors casualties in the country, said it has confirmed 502 deaths, nearly 1,000 fewer than the American intelligence assessment claimed.

Rami Abdel-Rahman, the head of the organization, said he was not contacted by U.S. officials about his efforts to collect information about the death toll in the Aug. 21 attacks.

"America works only with one part of the opposition that is deep in propaganda," he said, and urged the Obama administration to release the information its estimate is based on.

Read more here: Obama to seek congressional OK for Syria action - KansasCity.com

JRD77VET 08-31-2013 07:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TR6speed (Post 1029233)
If and when hw orders this limited strike, he better be ready to do more, because I don't see it ending with a hand full of Tomahawks. You can bet Syria and possible Iran will do something about it.
He opened his big mouth and now he will have to pay the price. I hope he is ready for what may come of this strike.

Russia has a defense treaty with Syria. Russia has half of their fleet going towards the Med.

China is on Russia's side and is enroute towards our Pacific coast.

He better not prove he's the fool he's looking like right now. He's ready to start WW3

bill_daniels 08-31-2013 08:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRD77VET (Post 1029399)
Russia has a defense treaty with Syria. Russia has half of their fleet going towards the Med.

China is on Russia's side and is enroute towards our Pacific coast.

He better not prove he's the fool he's looking like right now. He's ready to start WW3

:iagree:
With all the lib warhawking going on, we seem to have forgotten that Syria is a Russian client state.

bill_daniels 08-31-2013 08:03pm

Where is Cindy Sheehan?

DukeAllen 08-31-2013 08:55pm

I don't know if I should get an English-Russian dictionary, an English-Chinese one, or a Russian-Chinese one. And will we have to use a Spanish accent?


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