Hey NOX
 

What is your view on Trump's personnel drawdown in Afghanistan and Iraq announced today ?
Personally, I think a presence is more important than not.
School me please.

Also, Trump's Pentagon moves.... Thoughts?

I think Afghanistan and Iraq are just festering wounds that will never heal. All we do is to pick at the scabs, when we should be amputating those limbs once and for all. The people and culture have not changed in a millennia and won’t just because we go in to babysit. I think a military incursion is just a big waste of time.

I am not that worried about anything Trump does moving forward. I’m more worried about what Biden will do when he takes office.

Interesting.
On one hand, I think that we need a launching platform there, and on the other hand, I say just let them deal with their own problems and just sever.
If we totally left, don't you think that potentially valuable Intel will no longer be available?
Or does it not matter.?

We already have the most valuable intel in our possession. Someone in the know once told me that we should just let all the detainees in Gitmo and other places go. They have all long ago been mined for any useful info they would be willing to divulge. Then just follow them and see where they take us.. if you get the hint.

Yep, I totally get it. :yesnod:

What are the concerns in a Biden admin. ?

Let’s start with he got elected.

ya, sooooo, he did.
What are the concerns from a military standpoint ?

More deployments mean more money for politicians :yesnod:

The majority of military members are not very enthused when there is a Democratic administration in place. Past experience tells us, they'll claim to trim fat from the budgets, while actually cutting to the bone. When carriers can't deploy due to differed maintenance that affects the battle groups ability to perform its mission. Well then you've cut to far.

USS John F. Kennedy was a prime example. Catapults inoperable at the time the ship was to deploy. The Captain was relieved of command due to a loss in his ability to command. When in truth they wouldn't listen to him when he said they could not afford to defer any more maintenance on the ship.

If the Democrats had their way it would not just be “Defund the Police,” it would be “Defund the Military,” and Defund anything that didn’t have to do with social welfare and free medicine and free handouts for one and all. Maybe in a Unicorn Utopia where money grows on trees and gold was like sand on the beach, but the reality is, the money has to come from somewhere.

Yeah, but welfare people gots to have iPhones!

Hopefully the GOP can get their house in order before the entire country is ruined. Extreme right tactics will never work, just as extreme left won't.
The Pubs went a bridge too far this go round and lost the election because of it.

Over a thousand bridges to GO too.....

as for the troops overseas, I think we need back up and come home.....islam gets aggressive.....we bring them down with ICBM's.....fry them.....EVERY capital they have in ALL of islam.....destroy their oil industry and any water source they have......in 6 months the rest of the world can set around some table and draw lines on the map deciding who wants what.....

:issues::seasix::hurray:

Shrub Bush started that whole mess invading Iraq and as NOX said, the festering wound Afghanistan. I truly wonder what our national debt would be right now without both of those ? Obama kept pushing when he promised to bring the boys home and close Gitmo He did neither.

Trump is doing what he pledged- even if he might be on his way out. Keeping promises unlike a 50 year .Gov employee that just got elected will EVER do.

It’s funny AF that you think you have it all figured out.

YHGTBFKM.

Launching platform? For what?


This I gotta hear.

:withstupid:

:bigears:

Please detail what policies were "extreme right"

We spend more on the "War on Poverty" each year than the combined costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. How about ending that massive failure?

If you are going to send our military in send it in with no rules of engagement. The Soviets went in and after more than 10 years they gave up and withdrew. Has the politicians forgot a place called Vietnam.

:waiting:

Self Reliance, Limited government, Low taxes, and the ever horrible self discipline.

Don't forget personal responsibility.

Don't you just love people, with zero skin in the game their entire lives, trying to act like they know?

He doesn’t even act well. It’s painfully obvious he’s clueless.

I love when members that never served have the answers. :yesnod:

Thank You Brothers. :cert:

*if
He didn't get elected yet.
No.
No.
That's crazy talk!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: Wait! :rofl::rofl:

Well *I* love when members think unless you served, you’re not entitled to an opinion.

:rofl::rofl: Wait. Lemme catch my breath. :rofl::rofl:

Leftists: “no endless wars”
Trump “I’m ending the wars”
Leftists “We want endless wars!”

What a world.

Wait. lemme catch my breath. :rofl::rofl:


:funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79:

:funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79: '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funniest::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::funnier::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79::Jeff '79:

Opinion or an informed opinion?

Tell me.

What insight does someone who served give them over someone who did not? Are they privy to some inside information per say? And please. Don't say 'You wouldn't understand.' You should be able to articulate why.

For argument sake lets say John Doe enlisted at 20 years old, served his three (?) years active duty, returned home, found employment then served another five in reserves. Somehow I find it hard to believe Mr. Doe -now in his 50's- became a foreign policy expert. You can even extend this out to someone who served twenty years if you'd like.

And yes. I support the military 110%.

I will speak from my 27 years 9 day experience.

I served in positions from a private to senior executive level NCO working for the OSD. 5 combat deployments blah, blah, blah, blah.

Being on the ground gives you a different perspective when you are amongst the people of a country. For example.

Bosnia, they wanted us there for the most part. However, they also stated from all sides that once we leave they will fight again. Afghanistan, a disjointed tribal mentality where the president of their country is really only mayor of a district in Kabul. Iraq, the men are like Jeff'79. Sheeple sideline sitters. Bitch in local circles but will never band together to face off with a dictator.

We should have never went into Iraq nor Afghanistan. Both situations were hopeless from the beginning no matter what the media or leadership tells you.

N. Korea (while working for the OSD). The media had it all wrong which is where the people like Jeff'79 gets his opinions from. I was literally elbows deep in that entire ordeal. I cannot say much at all because it is classified but I tell you the media had it all wrong and was 180 degrees out from what was being done.

The media usually gets it all wrong from the ground truth. After being in Service that long whether on the ground or in a "war room" in a major command you come to realize that.


I sincerely hope that Jeff'79 answers what he meant by "launching platform" but he won't. He will cowardly walk away from it because he knows he doesn't know.


Nox hit it right on the head with his assessment but it seems to me Jeff'79 will go on thinking the way he does in ignorant bliss.

Another point.


I have obviously been in D and R administrations.

D administrations are not good. The force suffers and more importantly the readiness suffers tremendously.

We have a strategic policy to fight two wars at the same time.

Readiness falls to such a critical level under Ds (really globalists in general) where that is not possible.

A Biden administration will be no different. The Chinese know that.

We would need to cancel that long standing policy but it would come with risks.

Thanks for responding. :cert:

And you're absolutely right - your first hand knowledge give's you a different perspective. I'd never in a million years challenge that.

But this?

Is a bullshit response from a fool. Jeff is absolutely entitled to his opinion which was my entire point. The whole notion of 'You never served so STFU' is, well, stupid.

Now. If he were to tell you how to behave in a combat situation having never served? I'd join the STFU chorus.

Again. An uninformed opinion.

Some here have skin in the game. Some here will never live down what they did or saw.

There is a reason why the phrase "You wouldn't understand" exists.

You can't even understand that.

Further thoughts,,,

It's typical here (Hell MOST places) that when someone makes the You never served comment the 'Likes' come in fast and furious. But I see these and wonder to myself; was this person a career military individual? If they were, what was their position? Did they see combat, live and work amongst the natives - so to speak- or work in a supply chain capacity somewhere? (Just an example) Or were they someone who enlisted for 2-5 years and got out. 25 years ago.

If they're the latter? You don't get to play that card regarding anything current IMHO. If you're the former? That's a different story.

Retired late 2018. Still serve DoD today.

:iagree:

Not to mention that career military have been "indoctrinated" so their point of view is a bit skewed one way.

Indoctrinated in the truth.



That's my whole point.

Like with the Bible, the truth can be interpreted in many different ways.

MY only comment is about the stooopid 'leaders' getting us involved in all these foreign wars, in witch we gained NOTHING.......as a nation, but it did help enrich many folks making war goods from snacks to aircraft.....

BUT what did it prove?? About the only thing worth doing, the islamic war, was screwed up by poly-ticks......and we were stupid enough to train some islamics well enough to fly the plane, not take off or land, just in the air and even after all the BS those clowns have done for centuries???

BUTT, I think much of that is due to our commie dominated kolledges......

:issues::issues:

I was born in the DC region, grew older in Bethesda Md. and lived there for some 53 years, except a year in Fort Worth Tejas.....so my opinions and observations are based on a series of work friends/buddies many/most? of which had a TS clearance, as I did......Attended Univ/Md. Kolledge park Md, on the DC border.....B screwal, 4-5 out and out commie profs......

Some of you may know that toward the end of WW2 U/Md. was asked by the Feds to set up campuses for our GI's to attend.....still active in the early 60's....I suppose shut down today....??

:confused5:

Further Thoughts II ,,,,,

Not everyone is suited for the military would you agree? Do you really WANT everyone to serve? I doubt it.

I didn't serve (As you're aware) but I'll bet my last buck -what I have left after my divorce that is- the military is a microcosm of society. You have good/bad and otherwise.

And don't forget the people in the private sector that support the military.

There is a high value put on military service in this country as there should be. But does it have to be at the expense of everyone else à la You didn't serve?.

Huh?

Nope.

UMUC.

See, you just don't understand. :D

:D

Thank GOD for small miracles. :Jeff '79:

:Jeff '79:

FWIW: I never served in the military.

But I don't agree with this. I think of it like the guys on here who have never had children, and then criticize me about the way I raised my kids. Sure, they are entitled to their opinion, but they shouldn't be surprised that I view their input as coming from someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

I rarely take part in military discussion on message boards or in person, and when I do, it's usually to ask a question. I admit I don't know shit about the military itself, military strategies and tactics etc., so I generally STFU so nobody has to tell me to. :yesnod:

:withstupid:

That's exactly why I asked NOX. I figured that I'd get an answer from someone who has been there and that I wouldn't get trashed by him for asking.
I am also ignorant in military matters, so i asked.

edit.... I did play with GI Joes once and did play guns when I was little

Fair, but your logic is flawed IMHO.

The things being discussed here are matters of national interest. If you tell your son football is dangerous you can't play, that's very much a personal decision that impacts only your immediate household.

I never had children. You can all drop a 'Thanks' on me below this response. :Jeff '79:

I called a certain entitled female out about this very topic and got attacked when I did by half the board.

Resulted in no shame or introspect by that same entitled female and emboldened her to continue acting like a clueless ****.


(No I am not talking about Jeff'79)

How about another STFU? :D

:waiting:

A presence, a secure place do disembark from, for example, an aircraft carrier is to the ocean , as a military base is to land ,but in the theater.
Jeezus. Sorry I'm not up on the lingo and anacronyms.
Like you couldn't figure out what I meant like everyone else. :spdchk:

O.k. you missed the point as usual.

Where are we going from the "launching point"?

China, Iran, Tonga?

You do realize American Soldiers are being killed for a "launching point"? This is clueless and what pisses us Veterans off. The US military should never be used as a police force, nation builder, or a "launching point".

This is globalism and feeds the Industrial Military Complex.

It's cheaper to already have and maintain one than to have to refit one all over again. It is my understanding that the drawdown will not eliminate all troops from the theater so I guess they will maintain a small presence?
I also guess that did miss your point.
Personally, I think they should all be pulled from the middle east and Afghanistan and let them kill each other. If a country decides to be a nuke threat, eliminate the facility.

Launching points in the ME if we were ever to stay there are Ali Al-Salem in Kuwait or Al-Udied in Qatar. Soldiers are not being killed there.


See if you had been there you would know that. But you haven't so you don't.

Thanks for solidifying all of my points for me. :yesnod:

Thank you for the lesson

Anyone want to address this? Facts are rooted in history.

Will Biden be different? Most probably not since since other facts about his own son and himself say otherwise.

C'mon man! You couldn't find a D on this board if he paraded around in a sandwich board with Hillary on one side and Cumala on the other.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When we first went into Afghanistan my Father, a 2 war veteran, said it's a waste of time and we should just nuke them and turn the country into a glass encrusted memorial for 9/11.

He was right.

You had to figure that if the Russians couldn't do it in 10 years.......

Or the British or the Greeks or any of a dozen other nations trying to civilize them.

Yet If Bush haf done that the progressive liberals would have impeached his.

Should have tactical nuked Osama wherever he was. :yesnod:

Again, your logic is flawed, not mine. I actually know something about football as I played for a few years when I was a child. If you have zero knowledge or experience with football, and conclude on your own that it is too dangerous to let your son play, IMO, you're a dumbass. Every guy who has guy friends could ask around and find out the "Pop Warner" type of football is very safe, and that a kid getting any injury more serious than a bruise is very rare. The danger comes at the High School level when the size, strength, and speed of the players is exploding.

I can similarly have an opinion on what kinds of wars our nation should and shouldn't be getting involved with. What if my son gets drafted? Is this particular war worth it to me to potentially put my son in harm's way? But if I was to start opining on where we should open an Army base, I'm sure I would be roundly ignored by all those who have direct knowledge of such things. See the difference?

Not really but that OK.

My entire point to jumping into this mess was that Jeff is entitled to an opinion without having served. That's it. That's all.

And you never served so wgaf on your opinion on the Military or children. Just like someone that has never picked up a guitar giving their opinion on how to play it. Get it?

:laugh::laugh::laugh::spdchk::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one

I'm not surprised.

Yes, he is entitled to an opinion, and anyone and everyone who has real-world experience and knowledge in this area are entitled to, and IMO expected to, summarily dismiss his opinion as that of someone who has no ****ing clue what they are talking about. Jeff seemed fine with that, and even thanked Z06 for giving him some additional information on the topic. You, however, said Z06's response was "a bullshit response from a fool". In the end, it is you who looks a fool. But that isn't really any of my business, so feel free to drive on! :thumbs:

Actually no I didn't. Revisit the thread, read carefully.

Oh well. You were doing OK here adding to the discussion. For a little while anyway. Then this -

*I* am not surprised.

Carry on slugger. :cert:

The only worthy response is: :rolleyes: