L92 headed Darton Sleeved 427 build
 

We're going to be freshening my LS2 L92 headed 403 in January. In the process Shawn at VA Speed will be boring it and putting in Darton sleeves to make it 4.125 bore 427. Richard at WCCH will be reworking his heads I have on the car now.

Shawn and Ed will be taking lots of pics and vids of the process and we'll be adding to a very long thread on my car on LS1tech.


The question is:

Would the peeps here like to see it here? It should be interesting.

Let me know.

Kevin

:yesnod:

I wouldn't mind reading updates and seeing pics of from the teardown and buildup.

Do it here and we'll make it a sticky :D

Thanks Gary, I'll post up everything here also. There will be pics and vids from picking up the car, tear down, all the machine work and assembly and Ed tuning on the dyno.

Here's a link to the original "Plan B" thread on LS1tech. Over 600 posts and 54k views makes it one of 'techs most popular threads ever.

L92 DynoJet Numbers Plus Plan "B" - LS1TECH

Yeah, I'd really like to see it as well.

I'm new here but I came to learn so I would like to see all the info you come up with. then maybe be one day when I'm ready I'll know what to do with mine.

Link the tech thread and bump this thread when you have an update :beer:

It will be as additions to this thread.

L92 DynoJet Numbers Plus Plan "B" - LS1TECH

Shouldn't this be "Plan Z" or something ;) BTW I got some new golf shoes for Christmas... we need to put them to use this spring!

This might get interesting.:D

Yes, definitely.

Build threads are always entertaining.


:cheers:

Plan B v2.08 :willy:

Joan got me a golf cart cover and heater so I'm good as soon as the snow is gone. Speaking of which, I may try to find someplace south of here to play this weekend. My club is still closed. :sad:

A copy and paste from the other forum:

The term Gentleman's Cruiser was really my eccentric father's from many years ago. He used it to refer to his Rolls Coupe. I took it to mean an extreme vehicle but ultimately refined and understated. Everything we've done along the way has been an experiment to see what could be done with the L92 heads to make good power. Little tweaks along the way have brought us to 521/480. Not the most - but that was never my intention. It may however be the best 521/480 in driving quality and average power.

It is a wolf in sheep's clothing from the color to the quiet Ti exhaust. So here we have WKMCD's extreme vehicle but ultimately refined and understated.

With VA Speed and WCCH help we're just going to make it a little more extreme but still understated and provide as much information as possible and a little entertainment to this forum along the way.. :D

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...o4inchtube.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...00320Large.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...D/Front3-4.jpg

Meh, not interested....:rubbish:
'Til it's done! :D

In my best soup nazi voice:

No ride for you! :kick:

:roll:
Nice!

She's purdy all dressed up. But I've seen her naked, and topless. :D
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...insmods013.jpg
:o_o:

Look at those little tiny bores...:dance:

Gotta do something about that. :D

:yesnod:

Looks like Ed and Shawn will pick the car up the weekend of the 9th and 10th according to Ed. :party:

The cruiser will spend another winter down at the beach.:lol:

I'll wave to it as we're flying into San Juan... :D

Now, let's talk about that stow away thing I mentioned.......:o_o:

You live a rough life......:cry:

Are you still in sunny/warm Florida? :toetap::toetap:

PM'd with Shawn yesterday so he can order up the pistons. We're starting to move on this. :hurray:

Well, hurry up and get the cruiser picked up, and built. I could use a trip to Virginia Beach to go get it. :D

:yesnod:

Just got home. Stopped on the way last night. The ride from Orlando to SC/NC border was ridiculous. Bumper to bumper for hours.

I heard from Shawn yesterday. They should be up between 10-11:00am on Sunday if anyone wants to stop by to meet them or say hello.

Coffee and donuts will be served.

I shoulda been a cop. I'll show up anywhere for a donut! :willy:

Donuts! :drool:
Your making me hungry!

The wifes birthday is Sunday. Otherwise, I'd be down for the coffee. :o_o:
Too bad they aren't picking it up on Saturday. :leaving:

Hmmmm ... wheels turning.

Just got off the phone with Ed. He thinks the pistons came in and is going to get Shawn to post some pics.

I decided while we're doing this to install an Edelbrock 2 piece timing cover. It allows cam changes without dropping the steering rack and greatly simplifies the process. A friend of mine on the west coast ended up with 2 of them so he made me a great deal on one. I just got it today. It's brand new in the box. With the 4.125 bore I can run any heads if I choose - including LS7 heads. :) I may just want to run a different cam with the L92's on the 427 - who knows.

I'll try to get some pics up in the morning.

Helped a friend earlier this year with a h/c job. He bought a QTP 2pc timing cover, and although it was a really nice machined billet piece, I still cannot see doing a cam swap with just the top half of the cover off.

http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/l...eadcam/229.jpg

http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/l...eadcam/231.jpg



As you can see, it's impossible to see the crank sprocket (dot) with the lower half of the cover in place.

I guess you could match-mark the chain to the cam sprocket prior to removal, and somehow prop up the chain to insure it never leaves the crank sprocket during the swap...but that still seems awfully risky to me. Just verifying dot-to-dot is a procedure that should be double/triple checked...I can't imagine doing it blind with no means of verification.

And speaking of verification, degreeing the new cam becomes another challenge with the balancer already in place.


Neat idea, but in practice I don't see a 2pc timing cover greatly simplifying the process at all.


:cheers:

Mark the cam gear 180 degrees from the dot so you can keep track of the dot. Use a straight edge through the center of the cam. After that, a degree wheel will get you spot on. We'll be using a Cloyes adjustable gear set on the build.

Thanks for the pics.

You make it sound so easy. :D (btw, the above pictured is a Cloyes hexajust set with IRL chain).


Now, if I may ask, what do you fasten the degree wheel to? :confused5:
Remember, the balancer will still be there, bolted up tight.

Normally, I could see the possibility of making some sort of spacer setup to locate the degree wheel outboard of the balancer, but that would still require removing the bolt, which isn't possible with the rack in place.

Cut out the center of the degree wheel and two-sided tape it to the balancer. I haven't done it before but it seems doable.

Just heard from Ed. We've entered the 24 hour countdown for pickup. :hurray:

Sweet! :cheers:

Fired up the heater today and adjusted the coilovers. One click on the front and two on the back. Should be better in high speed corners now. :D

:drivingskid:

:goodmorning: Just spoke with Ed. They are on their way...

Starting to happen now.

:party::party::party:

He's starting to get a lil bit excited. :o_o:

Wont be long now! Make sure to let us know when you pick it up and stop by the barn so us locals can come see this baby in person.

Shawn and Ed made the drive up from VA Beach this morning to pick up the cruiser. Damon (MCLEOD) came by to lend moral support. Next time I see it it will have a 427 under the hood.

Thanks guys.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...10loading3.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...wnloading2.jpg

At least it was sunny.. :)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...0ontrailer.jpg

On it's way to winter in Va Beach - again. :yesnod:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...D/IMGP2089.jpg

I had to stop by to say goodbye to the "cruiser".:seeya:

I can't wait to say hello to the new "cruiser". :thumbs:
What's the timeframe of the build Kev?

I would expect some where around 30 days. We have to get it apart and ship the heads off to the west coast (one week each way). Richard has some plans for them. :dance:

Yeah, I heard there was some plans for the heads. Gonna be one helluva go-kart when it's all buttoned back up. :D
:thumbs:

Anyone need any stumps pulled??? :D

Just cause you can't hook up, don't go throwin' big ol mudder tires on the Cruiser Kevin. :roll:

Think - Dirt Drags... :drivingskid:

:rofl::rofl:

I just had a long talk with Richard at West Coast Cylinder Heads (proheads.com). He's been working the last few weeks on more port programming and chamber design. He says he's got the intakes up to 380CFM and that the numbers will be right in with the LS7 heads. He's also bumping the intake valve up to 2.200 inches - HUGE!!! He's really excited about being involved again with this ongoing project - and so am I.

2.2 intakes?! Holy snikeys! :o_o:

Ed just emailed me the last pull on the 403. 516/471. Still 400RWT at 2k RPM. I'm sure he could tweak the tune for todays conditions and get it right back up to 521/480 it was last spring. The build has always been extremely consistent on two seperate DJ's that do read very close to each other.

Oh well, now that we have a baseline - Onwards and upwards!

How did I miss this thread, must of had my head in the sand. I will be looking forward to updates, I bet come this March my beast is going to need a new motor, and a 427 sounds sweethttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ons/rockon.gif

Stay tuned! This is going to be interesting.

New motor for you = >1000RWHP :o_o:

Get it back up 521/480? You're only talking 5/9 Kevin. That small of a change could be due to some funky gas in the tank or something. Those are dam good numbers for pulls made almost a year apart. I wouldn't change a thing. :slap:
On second thought, since they got it anyway, you may as well have 'em punch it out, maybe do a little head work, sleeve the block........ :D
:roll:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'm thinking 550/510 - maybe. We'll just have to wait and see.

I'm thinking closer to 575/525. I think we should get a pool going for the final numbers. :D

That would be nice but we're still dealing with the limitations of the L76 intake. BTW: Shawn has some pics that he's emailing me for posting. I'll get them up as soon as he sends them.

That is a large number, looking at a sleved LS2 with big cubes to accept LS7 style heads and see what it does at first with my DS1C and looking forward to your progress on your setuphttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2..._thumright.gif

My thinking exactly with the sleeved 4.125 bore. There is a new GMPP LS7 head that looks like a pretty good deal. My bud Phil Thomas runs the ET LS7 heads on his LSX Mustang. He's up around 2200-2400RWHP. :o_o:

I thought that intake flowed enough numbers to support up to 600 horses? Am I mistaken?

600 flywheel HP with ease. We've made 540rwhp with a reasonably mild cammed 416 in a Goat. Not Baahahahahad! LOL. I keel myself.....:rofl:

Pics or STFU! :beat: :seeya: :)

Oh, that's funny sheit right there!
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...weetdaddyD.jpg

Don't get too fond of those goats.

Man's sex with goat | The Sun |News

Dammit Kev! I just spit coffee all over the glasstop table. :roll:
Where's that darn Windex.....:leaving:

Shawn sent some pics last night. The drive train is out and dissasembly begins.

The always photogenic Ed.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...003EDINCAR.jpg

Doing one last baseline pull on the 403. They use an in-ground DynoJet - also known as the "Heartbreaker". The numbers were down less than 2% of last spring. No adjustments of any kind were made. It's always been extremely consistent.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...02DYNOPULL.jpg

Next it's up on the lift. A keen eye will spot the LG GT2 coilovers and PFADT sway bars.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...0004ONLIFT.jpg

Everything unbolted and unplugged and the car is raised off the drive train.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...1-12-10011.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...1-12-10014.jpg

I run an ECS tranny brace with an RPM 3.90 rear.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...VETRAINOUT.jpg

I change the oil very frequently - everytime I have the motor out.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...RAININGOIL.jpg

So long to the 403.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...1-12-10020.jpg


Shawn will be sending more pics of the dissasembly, parts for the new build, machine work and assembly. We'll post the progress and build results all the way until I pick it up with the 427.

Hey, I know those shocks and sways.....intimately! :D
Didn't take them long to pull the drivetrain. :thumbs:

I think they've done it before. :)

Twice.........

Then there you go. They had your bolts all numbered. :roll:

What bolts? Last time we had it apart, we put it back together with velcro! :lolsmile:

This time we're gonna step it up a notch. ZIPPERS!! :rofl:

Where do you think they got the expression - "Button things up" ?:p

Zippers!! :roll:

Shawn has the motor pulled down and PM'd me.

A couple things,measured your bores smallest part of the smallest bore is 4.0050

largest part of the largest bore is 4.0085-that's .0035 difference.Some bore had as much as .0025 taper and out of round-pretty much like every other SDxx engine.The pistons were 4.0005-so you had as much as .008 piston to wall clearance.
I'll send you some picks tonight but you can see where the main caps were walking around due to the stock main bolts.

It sounds bad but it demonstrates to me the Shawn will have it right when I get it back.

No wonder it didn't make any power. :toetap:

All broken down:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...upsidedown.jpg

Looks like it was burning some oil after all.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...upheadsoff.jpg

Pistons and rods out.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...ginewcrank.jpg

You can see where all of the main caps were walking with stock bolts. For some reason I thought I had ARP mains.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...D/maincap1.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...D/maincap2.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...maincap3-1.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...D/maincap4.jpg

16-18k on this LS2 chain. Being replaced with a Cloyes adjustable setup.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...mingchain1.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...mingchain2.jpg

Bare block ready for some serious machine work.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9.../bareblock.jpg

good looking finger

I hate to think where that finger has been. :rofl:

Great pics BTW

I actually love thinking about where it's been:)

:rofl:

Why would the main caps be "walking" around even with stock rod-bolts? These motors have 6-bolt mains and are quite strong vs. most other motor setups out there. Just curious... also, what in those pictures shows evidence of movement?

Nice work so far... VaSpeed guys just left you front desk guy a message for a quote on a catback swap on a 2003 vert... or just removing the OEM pipes.

While they may have 6 bolts holding the main caps,only 4 are doing anything and they are small.You figure these fasteners were designed to handle 400hp a lighter rotating asy and 6200rpm.Add 50% more power,5% more rotating weight and 10% more rpm,the fasteners are just not happy.This is the main reason the ls7 main caps are doweled.

Shawn put some incredible pics and comments on machining the liners on ls1tech.com. I hope he puts them up here also.

L92 DynoJet Numbers Plus Plan "B" - LS1TECH

That's a logical explanation... didn't realize the rotating assembly was heavier. What markings denote they were moving around vs. a normal machining mark?

Normal machining marks only go in one direction. If you look at the pics closely, you can see several places where there are marks that go across the grain of the machining process marks. That's an indication of "walking". The cap is moving side to side, or forward and backward.
At least that's what my "shade tree" eye is seeing.
:cheers:

Here are some pics of the sleeve machining and installation process.


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10025.jpg

first thing is the block setup in the cnc-here the probe is finding the crankshaft center line


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10026.jpg

now we find the camshaft centerline-this way we ensure the bores and decks are exactly 45 deg from the camshaft to crankshaft centerline


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10028.jpg

now we probe the bore locations to determine the location of the bores


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10030.jpg

now we probe the decks in 6 locations on each bank-this tells us the height and straightness of the decks


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10034.jpg

here is a report of the locations of the bores and the deck heights-the x locations in parenthesis are the blueprint locations the one beside them are actual.All y locations should be zero


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10035.jpg

here we are rough boring-this will get us to within .020 of the actual size


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10037.jpg

block after rough boring


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10039.jpg

couple shavings underneath


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10040.jpg

finish boring-we need to be within .0002 when finish boring-that's 2 ten thousanth's of an inch.Accuracy is really the key here-if not bored perfectly-you can crack the block when installing the sleeve or you can have a loose sleeve.There are not too many machines out there that can hold this accuracy-we are very fortunate to have one.


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10042.jpg

bores ready for sleeves


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10043.jpg

sleeves installed


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...1-14-10045.jpg

ready for final machining

Great pics and writeup. I was getting tired of those little 4 inch bores anyways. :above:

Great looking work. :thumbs:

This from Richard at West Coast Cylinder Heads - proheads.com. We're sending the heads back to Richard for a little more work. :D

Shawn. This is a really nice presentation of the precision machining required for proper sleeving and block prep. The final result is a solid foundation for a performance build. Thanks for taking the time to show the step by step process.
Kevin is doing a great job keeping pace with the changing demand for larger displacement engines and spotlighting the technological progress of building a potent street machine. His decision to stick with the L92 heads will help demonstrate the true power potential of this mass produced part. It's truly an impressive production design.

Nice work Kevin

Richard

Now, let's see what they can do about increasing the flow numbers on those L92's. :yesnod:

The heads are on their way to Richard at WCCH. New CNC program and 2.20 intake valve. I've been running stock L92 vales all this time with no problems but we're going to upgrade the exhaust to stainless also while we're at it.

That is all. :D

Tell 'em to hurry up. I wanna see those numbers man! :toetap:
:dance:

We didn't get these over here.

Block all blueprinted and decked to .0001 tolerance.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...ckedblock1.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...ckedblock2.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...ckedblock3.jpg