FBI vs Apple....

[island14]

Your thoughts? :island14:

From what I'm reading the FEDs are willing to just hand over the phone and let them do it.

This way they will not have access to the back door or cracking info.

To me this info they can access is about National Security..

Am I missing something here? or does Apple have a point?

[Cybercowboy]

I don't want Apple to make a back door to these devices. The feds let these two people into the country and then let them accumulate all those weapons and gear. Any information on that phone is already obsolete anyway. The feds screwed up 50 ways from Sunday and are acting like petulant children.

[6spdC6]

Your thoughts? :island14:

From what I'm reading the FEDs are willing to just hand over the phone and let them do it.

This way they will not have access to the back door or cracking info.

To me this info they can access is about National Security..

Am I missing something here? or does Apple have a point?

******Taking a neutral position here!*****

It appears to me that the answer to your question depends on what story you read. I have seen all sorts of versions of what they want and why apple will not do it. Got to separate the wheat from the chaff here.



Once the camels nose is under the tent more will follow, that just seems to be the way the government (ANY GOVERNMENT) normally works.

[island14]

In my mind.. making a back door would be a bad thing. :yesnod:

And do not trust them myself if they had it...

But from what I am reading they just want the info from the phone to help with the investigation.

[island14]

On the flip side though..

I have to wonder if its all smoke screen and bullshit to make others feel safer using them.

The Tin Foil Paranoid side of me thinks they had the back door before the phones were ever made..

[Millenium Vette]

Your thoughts? :island14:

From what I'm reading the FEDs are willing to just hand over the phone and let them do it.

This way they will not have access to the back door or cracking info.

To me this info they can access is about National Security..

Am I missing something here? or does Apple have a point?

The bold text is incorrect per the court order. The court order demands that Apple develop encryption breaking software that will belong to the FBI.

[Ryan Bell]

Apple *offered to unlock the phone themselves*. I don't know why no one is reporting this. They FBI said "no" because they demanded the power (i.e. workaround exploit) to do it themselves. Apple said no.

Apple's not doing anything wrong. They offered to help. FBI said my way or the highway.

[Mike Mercury]

I am no kooky-aid drinker; but have to side with Apple on this... as long as they refuse to hand over the golden key - in it's entirety - to the govt.

If the govt changes its tune, and ask Apple to do the unlocking - just on this one court ordered device... then Apple better comply.

[Cybercowboy]

Apple *offered to unlock the phone themselves*. I don't know why no one is reporting this. They FBI said "no" because they demanded the power (i.e. workaround exploit) to do it themselves. Apple said no.

Apple's not doing anything wrong. They offered to help. FBI said my way or the highway.

Exactly. Apple could change the iTunes account password, spoof the guy's email address, and get at the data that way. Not that difficult. But the FBI wants to be able to just rip the data straight from the phone any old time they want.

[Rob]

Apple *offered to unlock the phone themselves*. I don't know why no one is reporting this. They FBI said "no" because they demanded the power (i.e. workaround exploit) to do it themselves. Apple said no.

Apple's not doing anything wrong. They offered to help. FBI said my way or the highway.

Keep in mind - it is one of the investigators that screwed up and changed the password for that appleid rendering that account useless. They are the one that screwed up

[Jobaka]

I wonder if they tried his fingerprint.

[mrvette]

Exactly. Apple could change the iTunes account password, spoof the guy's email address, and get at the data that way. Not that difficult. But the FBI wants to be able to just rip the data straight from the phone any old time they want.

I don't know what side of the fence to shit on in this one.....so that leaves me with a picket or a post to split the difference .....just to be fair....

and make a comment, that NO ONE but a CIA operative needs this kind of 'security' over a silly Iphone.....even the SS, I can see the .mil needs their own version of this stuffs.....but over a silly Iphone??

the above comment about the BS being SO dated by now, and .gov total incompetence keeping in mind the islamic idiots in 'power' these daze, it does make me wonder so I suppose I going to shit on the .gov side of the fence......

maybe hit a picket or two on the way down, but not a post......:issues::dance::lol:

[Chuck A]

i rather they do not let FBI get into that A-Holes phone even though he is a A-Hole dont want FBI have control

[mrvette]

i rather they do not let FBI get into that A-Holes phone even though he is a A-Hole dont want FBI have control

After asshole and all the islamics are cleaned out of the Fed.gov maybe then with some conservative PATRIOTS in place we can let the FBI have the secrets.....:seasix::cert:

[04 commemorative]

:shrug:

[Mike Mercury]

Still a slippery slope w/doing that.

Once they do it for one, they'll be expected to do it for all, from any country who has a "legitimate" reason, IMHO.


with a subpoena from a Federal Judge; that should be OK. Apples lawyers can challenge the subpoena; so they wouldn't exactly be bending over at the first attempt.

But the FBI wants to be able to just rip the data straight from the phone any old time they want.

intelligence agencies try to avoid anyone else "in the loop" for data retreival; it's the old chain-of-command scenario. Each person that puts their touch on the device... gives a defense lawyer an inroads to having the evidence thrown out.

I have stated I'm siding with Apple on this one (as long as the FBI demands they hand over acess to all devices); though there is some reasoning as to why the FBI want's to unlock the device themselves.

[ApexOversteer]

Keep in mind - it is one of the investigators that screwed up and changed the password for that appleid rendering that account useless. They are the one that screwed up

This.

If they had simply gone "it's locked, let's have Apple grant us access" Apple could have waved a wand over it and done, none of this "give us access to all phones at all times" bullshit. But, since the FBI tried to do it themselves and f*cked it up, now they need Apple to make this magic bullet.

The only thing that really steams me is the possibility that information within the phone could be used to find other f*ckwad cockbags with an idea of hurting Americans.

[ApexOversteer]

I don't know what side of the fence to shit on in this one.....so that leaves me with a picket or a post to split the difference .....just to be fair....

Its an easy answer here: Always shit on the side of freedom.

Wait... that didn't sound right...

[Mike Mercury]

The only thing that really steams me is the possibility that information within the phone could be used to find other f*ckwad cockbags with an idea of hurting Americans.

this.

[GentleBen]

As I understand this, the FBI wants Apple to develop a new iOS which will bypass the normal security routines in the Apple 5C under discussion. My objection with this is, once the Government has forced Apple to do this, any other court can use this event as the basis to force Apple to do it for another case. BTW, I guarantee that if Apple is forced to do this, within 24 hours New York will also go to court to force Apple to unlock an alleged 175 Apple phones tied to cases where the NYPD cannot access data on the phones.

Also what if the Canadians, the Brits, the French, the Chinese, etc. also go to their courts and get a local court order? If Apple does not comply with the new order, then the local can impose some distract fines on an American based company.

Finally, should Apple comply with this court order, what do they do when the Court demands access to an iPhone 6 or later device? The iPhone 6 was the first to be built an "on board security enclave" that is not connected to the iOS system and cannot be bypassed. If someone were to (a) not deactivate the security protocol (mandated originally by the state California where this case is now based) that states 10 invalid sign in attempts would permanently lock the device and wipe all data, (b) use a 10-digit (or longer) password in conjunction with a thumb- or fingerprint and (c) turn off the phone before handing it over to the local police then they (the police) are going to be locked out. US Federal courts have ruled that a person may be force to place his/her fingers on the touch screen to unlock the phone. . . but on initial start after turning the phone back on it must be unlocked by the use of the passcode before the touch system is restarted. Were it me, I would swear that I cannot remember a 13-digit alpha-numeric sequence. As I understand it, even Apple cannot access the security enclave on board a late model iPhone. And we all know that at my advanced age I am hindered by Alheimer's, dementia, and a general case of ICRS!:)

[Rob]

Here is what I posted on bookface the other day about this.


Very simple solution:

1) Create the backdoor software being requested

2) license the software in a way it is on a per-use basis and not a possession license

3) keep the software at apple and available to anyone that needs it and has a federal search warrant allowing its use.

4) make the per-use fee $1 million dollars (or more) and donate that money to a victims rights campaign.


Please note - I am not saying I think Apple should give anyone the key - just that they let them in. Nothing more. Also, they should set it to where there is a two phase authentication method where a second person controls the rotating semaphore that signals that the key being used is a valid single use key.

I think Apple should help them - but hold it over their head that you are the one with the key.



Additionally - one other thought I have had is that this is an election year. Who is to say that Apple has not made a back room deal with candidate "x" that they will use for grandstanding to beat candidate "y"?

:yesnod:

[Aerovette]

Two things...

1) I read a report that the password for the phone the FBI has, was changed AFTER they took possession.

2) Dennis Miller has the best solution...

Give it to Hillary, wait a couple weeks, then ask Putin what's on it.

[VITE1]

This deal is a Cluster F**k from day one

1) The Phone is a company phone and they did not want to pay the 4.00 USd a month to prevent Users from locking out managment.

2) The owner of the phone RESET the device within a few days after the attack. WTF did they doi that when it was suppose to be in the FBI's possession?

3) Apple, who I hate for business reason, has done and provided whomever they could find to help the FBI access the phone.

4) The Government is demanding that Apple develop a "backdoor" for any FUTURE needs.

I stand with Apple based on the information I have now.

[Cybercowboy]

The only thing that really steams me is the possibility that information within the phone could be used to find other f*ckwad cockbags with an idea of hurting Americans.

Seems to me not letting any more Pakistani citizens who emigrate via Saudi Arabia would go much further than unlocking a phone.

[ApexOversteer]

Seems to me not letting any more Pakistani citizens who emigrate via Saudi Arabia would go much further than unlocking a phone.

That is a solution to a different problem. We need to find the scumbags already here.

[island14]

I wonder if they tried his fingerprint.

I wondered that also.. and wonder if they tried it at the morgue or kept the finger in case they needed it later.. :leaving:

[island14]

Interesting thoughts have been brought up here in this thread, and as mentioned my views tend to shift as many of the articles we have been fed have conflicting viewpoints.

Just reading many think they should crack this phone for the FEDs though..

Most Americans support the FBI over Apple, Pew study finds | PCWorld (http://www.pcworld.com/article/3036497/security/most-americans-support-the-fbi-over-apple-pew-study-finds.html)


I kinda think they should for this investigation, but do not think they should give them a back door they can use anytime they want..

But really with other thoughts brought up, like setting a precedence for what happens when another country like China makes the same request..


I have to say I don't know..

[Y2Kvert4me]

I wonder if they tried his fingerprint.

iPhone 5c doesn't have a fingerprint sensor.

Tech-savvy criminals don't use that (optional) feature anyways., it's a weakness. Precedence has already been set that law enforcement can coerce the accused into submitting a finger for the purpose of unlocking a phone....But so long as a defendant has the right to remain silent, they can not get a passcode verbally communicated.

And Apple should absolutely NOT build a backdoor for this purpose.

:cheers:

[Craig]

Apple *offered to unlock the phone themselves*. I don't know why no one is reporting this...

Where have you heard this, I haven't seen it.

[island14]

iPhone 5c doesn't have a fingerprint sensor.

:


So you're saying you don't think they chopped off his finger? :island14:

[ApexOversteer]

They haven't, because it's not possible for them to do so. If they could, it undermines the entire security system.

They did. They sent a tech to unlock the phone, and it was he/she/they that discovered that someone at the FBI had changed the password for that AppleID locking the phone and setting the 10 try limit.

As I understand it, Apple could have gotten into the phone until that had happened. Once they saw it had happened, they told the FBI they were screwed.

[ApexOversteer]

Which those are likely two different "unlocking" situations.

Before the FBI borked it up = not an issue to UNLOCK the phone.

After the FBI borked it up = major issue getting the phone "unlocked".

So who's really to blame here? Yep, the gov't. They screw up and try to blame others. SOP for them.

Precisely. One is a "I forgot my password" situation, and the other is "oh, you done fuctup now."

[Jobaka]

Privacy for everyone.
Privacy for no one.

Pick one.

[ApexOversteer]

I don't know if they sent a tech or not, but even if the FBI hadn't attempted to change the password, I'm not sure they could have broken into the phone (if it was locked). They could have, however, accessed the backups (maybe, it's unclear if those backups are locked with the phone)




Apple had been in regular talks with the government since early January, Apple executives said in an earlier call covered by other news outlets. It proposed four ways to recover the information, including connecting the phone to a known Wi-Fi network.

Apple sent engineers to try that method, but was unsuccessful, Apple said. That was when it was discovered the Apple ID passcode of shooter Syed Rizwan Farook's iPhone 5c had been changed under government custody.

IMO, Apple has bent over backwards to appease the FBI already...

[Craig]

They did. They sent a tech to unlock the phone, and it was he/she/they that discovered that someone at the FBI had changed the password for that AppleID locking the phone and setting the 10 try limit.

As I understand it, Apple could have gotten into the phone until that had happened. Once they saw it had happened, they told the FBI they were screwed.

Where did you hear this? I haven't seen it on the news.

[island14]

I still think they should have chopped off his finger.. :lol:

[NEED-A-VETTE]

McAffee, that crazy SOB, said he'll hack it for free. Give him a few weeks, according to him.

Let him have at it. :funny:

With all due respect to Tim Cook and Apple, I work with a team of the best hackers on the planet. These hackers attend Defcon in Las Vegas, and they are legends in their local hacking groups, such as HackMiami. They are all prodigies, with talents that defy normal human comprehension. About 75% are social engineers. The remainder are hardcore coders. I would eat my shoe on the Neil Cavuto show if we could not break the encryption on the San Bernardino phone. This is a pure and simple fact.

And why do the best hackers on the planet not work for the FBI? Because the FBI will not hire anyone with a 24-inch purple mohawk, 10-gauge ear piercings, and a tattooed face who demands to smoke weed while working and won't work for less than a half-million dollars a year. But you bet your ass that the Chinese and Russians are hiring similar people with similar demands and have been for many years. It's why we are decades behind in the cyber race.

MCAFEE: I'll decrypt San Bernardino phone free - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-bernardino-phone-for-free-2016-2)


John McAffee is the creator of McAfee security software and is one of the foremost cyber security experts in the world. I spoke to him by Skype, and he says this fight is really over encryption as a whole.

“The problem is that once you put a backdoor into a piece of software, every hacker in the world is going to find it and use it, and [then] we’re in a world of hurt,” he says.

McAfee says that if the FBI is telling the truth about their intentions and they really need to get into just this one, then he and his team of hackers have agreed to hack that San Bernardino shooter’s phone for the FBI for free. And he says they can do it in less than three weeks.

“But what I have done is said, look, you know, if in fact you are sincere in wanting to get access to just that one phone, my team and I will do it,” he says. “We can crack it—easily. I guarantee it. There is no un-crackable encryption. We all know that.

“They have not responded [to my offer] and I do not think they will because it’s not just that one phone they want. They want a key to everyone’s phone.”

Reality Check: Why McAfee Says FBI Really Wants To End Encryption, Not Hack Just One iPhone (http://truthinmedia.com/reality-check-mcafee-says-fbi-really-wants-end-encryption-not-hack-just-one-iphone/)

[Rob]

I just recently saw that he lives in a small town near me.

And yes, he is nuts.

[island14]

And why do the best hackers on the planet not work for the FBI? Because the FBI will not hire anyone with a 24-inch purple mohawk, 10-gauge ear piercings, and a tattooed face who demands to smoke weed while working and won't work for less than a half-million dollars a year. But you bet your ass that the Chinese and Russians are hiring similar people with similar demands and have been for many years. It's why we are decades behind in the cyber race.

:rofl:

[island14]

I just recently saw that he lives in a small town near me.

And yes, he is nuts.

I like the way he said that above, invite him over for some Rhum when you see him ok? :Jeff '79:

[Dave]

The chances of me buying an Apple phone went way up because of this.

Apple is right. The FBI can piss off.

[SteelCityBlue]

I just recently saw that he lives in a small town near me.

And yes, he is nuts.

where?

[VITE1]

They did. They sent a tech to unlock the phone, and it was he/she/they that discovered that someone at the FBI had changed the password for that AppleID locking the phone and setting the 10 try limit.

As I understand it, Apple could have gotten into the phone until that had happened. Once they saw it had happened, they told the FBI they were screwed.

It wasn't the FBI that reset it. It was th CA health department that Did it while the phone was in the FBI hands.