Gearheads...comment on my long block quote

[Datawiz]

This is from Texas Speed Performance. Will take 4-6 weeks. As quoted, the assembly (along with intake, tune and headers) will put about 570 at the wheels, thus around 670 at the crank. Right in the sweet spot for what I'm looking for.

[Datawiz]

I think I'm going to add this:

LSXR? 102mm Intake Manifold ? LS7 Car Fuelairspark.com (http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/lsxrtm-102mm-car-intake-manifold-ls7html/)

Will add 15-20 hp to the previously quoted.

[Stangkiller]

$14k for an Ls7? Man, seems steep, I was half that for my LS1, which is holding more power than you're hoping to make.

Does this solve ALL of the inherent problems with the LS7? how does this compare to a Wold block set up?

[Datawiz]

$14k for an Ls7? Man, seems steep, I was half that for my LS1, which is holding more power than you're hoping to make.

Does this solve ALL of the inherent problems with the LS7? how does this compare to a Wold block set up?

It's supposed to be all aftermarket parts, with the exception of the LS7 aluminum block. You know me, I'm a dummy. I'm looking for input, but I definitely want to stay at 427 CI. BUT, I'm looking for durability for what the car does. Anything more than 700 at the crank is going to be a total waste for what I do.

[CertInsaneC5]

Looks about right for what you are going to get. I spent a bit more than that for my setup. :cert:

[Stangkiller]

Dart makes an aluminum LSNext block that solves all the oiling issues :yesnod: may be worth considering, and also, considering a machine shop. Those prices don't seem great...$400 for a cam that you can buy anywhere, if I were spending that much money, I'd want a discount on the parts at a minimum.

If you're already in that ball park, what's a little more for something you'll never be able to kill, and was purpose built for exactly what you're using it for.

I'll just leave this here: Engine Tech: Borowski Builds Mild-mannered 427ci With LS Next Block - LSXTV (http://www.lsxtv.com/tech-stories/engine/engine-tech-borowski-builds-mild-mannered-427ci-with-ls-next-block/)

Dart LS Next (http://borowskirace.com/Dart_LS_Next.html)

Can I take this moment to urge you to replace all of your oil coolers, and take a good long look at your oil connectors, lines, pumps, and filter heads?

[Datawiz]

Dart makes an aluminum LSNext block that solves all the oiling issues :yesnod: may be worth considering, and also, considering a machine shop. Those prices don't seem great...$400 for a cam that you can buy anywhere, if I were spending that much money, I'd want a discount on the parts at a minimum.

If you're already in that ball park, what's a little more for something you'll never be able to kill, and was purpose built for exactly what you're using it for.

I'll just leave this here: Engine Tech: Borowski Builds Mild-mannered 427ci With LS Next Block - LSXTV (http://www.lsxtv.com/tech-stories/engine/engine-tech-borowski-builds-mild-mannered-427ci-with-ls-next-block/)

Dart LS Next (http://borowskirace.com/Dart_LS_Next.html)

Can I take this moment to urge you to replace all of your oil coolers, and take a good long look at your oil connectors, lines, pumps, and filter heads?

Have you used them before? Reliability?

[69camfrk]

Did you let Vengeance racing in Atlanta quote one for you? I really don't know where the pricing falls since I have nothing with an LS series engine, but I do know they build some of the baddest motors on the block.:seasix:

[Datawiz]

Did you let Vengeance racing in Atlanta quote one for you? I really don't know where the pricing falls since I have nothing with an LS series engine, but I do know they build some of the baddest motors on the block.:seasix:

I have not, but I will look into them. :seasix:

[GentleBen]

I didn't see a mention of the dry-sump coolant system nor the lines need to run it. Do you already have those or are you obtaining them from elsewhere?

[Datawiz]

I didn't see a mention of the dry-sump coolant system nor the lines need to run it. Do you already have those or are you obtaining them from elsewhere?

Z06 already has the dry sump stock. What am I missing?

[StaticCling]

Dang! 14 Grand! Too rich for my blood.

Have fun though!


FWIW, I only paid 4k for the 350 build in my '73. 450HP at the crank...But mine is old skool.

[JRD77VET]

Z06 already has the dry sump stock. What am I missing?

New lines ( in case there are metal particles in the old lines )

Is there a cooling system for the pump itself? ( I don't know, reading into what he wrote )

[Datawiz]

Dang! 14 Grand! Too rich for my blood.

Have fun though!


FWIW, I only paid 4k for the 350 build in my '73. 450HP at the crank...But mine is old skool.

$14 grand is going to be $20 grand with the headers, intake, and installation. Add that to the $10 grand I already spent on the new diff, clutch, race seat, harness bar and harnesses. You can see how I make a small fortune in racing....start with a large one. :lol:

[VatorMan]

Z06 already has the dry sump stock. What am I missing?

What year ? You need the 09 and above stock 10.5 quart dry sump.

[Datawiz]

What year ? You need the 09 and above stock 10.5 quart dry sump.

'08

[markids77]

Z06 already has the dry sump stock. What am I missing?

Metal particles from previous mishaps may be hiding in anyplace engine oil circulates; just waiting to dislodge and damage your new powerplant as well. For total peace of mind the lines and coolers and remote filter housings etc. should be replaced as well to ensure clean oil to the new heart. Whatever it costs will definitely be less than another build/rebuild.

[VatorMan]

'08

Need new sump. I recommend Accusump.

[mrvette]

$14 grand is going to be $20 grand with the headers, intake, and installation. Add that to the $10 grand I already spent on the new diff, clutch, race seat, harness bar and harnesses. You can see how I make a small fortune in racing....start with a large one. :lol:

Paid 8k for the car in '95 looked grand, no rust, and completely stock in mechanical/interior plastic.....spent another 8 grand over the years with all the mechanical mods, which is a VERY long list, due to the lights wiped out with a damn deer in '98 and the subsequent repair was with Ecklers sugar scoops,.... then maybe 8 years ago a Verizon truck backed into the left front, so that ended it, another paint job due to the old one being just shot after 25 years....I put this engine in, met a fellow here that sold me his 350 engine for about 350 bux, roller '89 factory 4 bolt block, it was fresh from the machine shop, in pieces, took it over to the shop, and had them assemble it, built a 200 4r for the overdrive.... plus rack, ahd HB brakes....and hundreds of other mods.....I am a junkyard hot rodder, been one for some 1/2 a century now.....

:seasix::hurray:

[RedLS1GTO]

$14 grand is going to be $20 grand with the headers, intake, and installation...

$20k?

That's about what my entire race car cost.

Jeebus.


...and as for dry sumps. 24qt. w/3 110v pre-heaters. Go big or go home. :D

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/botch1980/Howe%20Race%20Car/IMAG1419_zpsg4dao9bo.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/botch1980/Howe%20Race%20Car/IMG_0573_zpskuwt5qta.jpg

[island14]

Craig I don't wanna be a party pooper... BUT.... :D

Dood that's a whole lotta money, and if it makes you happy to have that, then by all means do it..

But just a little info before you go off and jump into the pond to think about.

First of all, do you really need all that power? :island14:

What are you going to do with it? What are your plans for the car this year and next? :island14:

Can your car with the tires you use.. really hook it up, and bite off the corners with that extra power?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you just doing short track runs in parking lots and maybe some tracks laid out at an airstrip with lots of turns or something?

On shorter oval tracks more power is not always the answer, so I'm kinda comparing here.

I have often seen guys switch to lower power engines on purpose for races at some flatter short tracks without a lot of banking, just to be smoother with better throttle control, and traction.

Heck I even pulled a plug wire off on purpose one time due to the shitty tires they made us use one night.

I have seen V-6 and even 4 cylinder engines kick ass.. and get much better lap times than the much higher power V-8 engines.

If you have a long straight away track, or tracks that you plan to race at soon, then of course you can always use more power..

Either way, I would first spend the money on parts that help the engine live, not just make more HP
(good valve train, Rods, Pistons, Crank, Oiling system)

And/or chassis parts to make the car handle better.

Also one last thought here, seems to me you are already the biggest fish in a small pond, and kicking everyone's ass... do you really need a whole lot more power at this time? :island14:

Worth mentioning.. I have an engine builder friend over in Indiana I saw the last time I was in the US a few years ago, that told me he still had some over 800HP engines (with just a carb and no turbo) from an ARCA team just sitting in his garage that I bet he would sell cheaper than what you are about to spend by the way.

I can shoot off an email to him if you are interested.

Used Cup engines are also getting really cheap these days.. :yesnod:

:cert:

[RedLS1GTO]

Worth mentioning.. I have an engine builder friend over in Indiana I saw the last time I was in the US a few years ago, that told me he still had some over 800HP engines (with just a carb and no turbo) from an ARCA team just sitting in his garage that I bet he would sell cheaper than what you are about to spend by the way.

I know the driveline could take it (since it's all ex-Cup parts) but I wonder if the ASA chassis could hold 800hp... hmmmm. :D

[island14]

I know the driveline could take it (since it's all ex-Cup parts) but I wonder if the ASA chassis could hold 800hp... hmmmm. :D

Knowing Greg he built them with all new parts most likely, but the same parts as the cup guys use.

Of course your chassis can handle it.. thought it wouldn't? :lol:

What kind of power are you getting out of your two cars?



I will send him a message through his wife on FB and see what parts and engines he has left if any.

I'm sure if he has anything he would be happy to unload.. and maybe someone here could use something.

He is so close to you.. that you should consider him the next time you need to fresh an engine (or break one)

Good guy! and really knows what he is doing.. :yesnod:

The last time we spoke he was also building some Top Fuel drag racing engines for a few guys.

[RedLS1GTO]

What kind of power are you getting out of your two cars?

The LS car is somewhere just above 500bhp and the other naturally aspirated smallblock car is something a little more than that... 550 maybe?

Mine (the LS) has been on a dyno. I'm basing the other number on the fact that it pulls me by a few mph on the straights despite being a little heavier.

[island14]

The LS car is somewhere just above 500bhp and the other naturally aspirated smallblock car is something a little more than that... 550 maybe?

Mine (the LS) has been on a dyno. I'm basing the other number on the fact that it pulls me by a few mph on the straights despite being a little heavier.


That's plenty of power with just a carb using 10 inch slicks.. and good parts so they can live all day at high RPM for 100 lap or more races.

Then turn around and do it again for many more races without a re-fresh.

Knowing what you have said in the past about the history of the car, I know your engines have all good parts in them.

That's about what we had in our latemodel with a 358 and only a 9/1 compression rule, But some tracks had a 390 carb rule that choked off some power.

Greg was building me a big inch, 16.5/1 compression small block, (438 I think it was going to be) that I was really looking forward to using at a high bank 1/2 mile for the modified, where you could use all the power you could get.

I ended up selling out and quit about that time.

[Datawiz]

Money is in the bank, project is moving forward. Still going to reach out to Vengeance Racing for a quote. Also calling Borowski. :yesnod:

[Datawiz]

Money is in the bank, project is moving forward. Still going to reach out to Vengeance Racing for a quote. Also calling Borowski. :yesnod:

Vengeance would not be able to provide an engine until February, so they are out.

[Datawiz]

Craig I don't wanna be a party pooper... BUT.... :D

Dood that's a whole lotta money, and if it makes you happy to have that, then by all means do it..

:cert:

Tim,

My venue is a mile long, and concrete, so putting the power down is nothing. I'm truly looking to get more into road course HPDE's. I've already done them in that car, and while fun, I want more power. I've had the car for 8 years and am bored. I don't care if it's useless on smaller autocross courses, as I simply buy rides in capable cars, like the supercharged Miata I'm racing this season.

I'm doing this for several reasons; obviously I have to, cuz the existing engine is dead, but I plan on keeping this car forever, I want it to stay an LS7 but with a nice bump in power, yet remaining all motor. I want to keep playing with it, and want an engine that's durable. :yesnod:

[RedLS1GTO]

I've already done them in that car, and while fun, I want more power.

<500hp...

http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/2014-corvette-c7r-breaks-cover-in-detroit-promises-more-track-success-live-photos_1.jpg

Power is never a bad thing but if you want more fun on a road course, power in my opinion isn't the way to get there. Some of the most fun cars I have ever driven are not even close to the most powerful. Personally, the newer Vettes are pretty boring in general in an HPDE setting. As backwards as it sounds, they're too easy to drive. More power just makes them boring at higher speeds. :D

At the price point you are talking about, have you considered a step back on the engine and buying something else to be a "fun" track day car? Maybe even look towards something like a Radical or other non-production based car. As I mentioned partially in humor before, you're at the cost of my entire car with what you're proposing.

[Datawiz]

Just spent $14,710. :leaving:

Includes headers and cold air intake.

[RedLS1GTO]

Just spent $14,710. :leaving:

Includes headers and cold air intake.

You could have told me BEFORE I took the time to write that extremely eloquent and well thought out post. :D

It should be a beast on the straights.

If your plan is to run road courses, even just HPDE, you better start to budget another $14,710 for suspension, etc to match that power.

[Datawiz]

You could have told me BEFORE I took the time to write that extremely eloquent and well thought out post. :D

It should be a beast on the straights.

If your plan is to run road courses, even just HPDE, you better start to budget another $14,710 for suspension, etc to match that power.

As you know, the car is a work in progress. Suspension is already pretty well sorted for what I do, but upgrades will always be coming, but it has to come in stages. Christ, I spent $10K on the diff, clutch, race seat and harness system just before it blew up.

Future improvements will be coil overs, better brakes (brake lines already plumbed), FAST 102 intake (I didn't pull the trigger on that at this stage due do budget constraints).

I love my car, and will continue to improve it. :yesnod:

[Datawiz]

You could have told me BEFORE I took the time to write that extremely eloquent and well thought out post. :D

Oh, and I just purchased it 20 minutes ago, so it was clearly after your well thought out post. :D

[dwjz06]

This is from Texas Speed Performance. Will take 4-6 weeks. As quoted, the assembly (along with intake, tune and headers) will put about 570 at the wheels, thus around 670 at the crank. Right in the sweet spot for what I'm looking for.
Craig,

Get a quote from Katech. Yeah the guys that build the race motors for the C6R, C7R pretty much bullet proof they say.:D:cert:

C6 Corvette Z06 « Katech Inc. 586-791-4120 (http://katechengines.com/performance/vehicles/c6-z06/)

[Datawiz]

Craig,

Get a quote from Katech. Yeah the guys that build the race motors for the C6R, C7R pretty much bullet proof they say.:D:cert:

C6 Corvette Z06 « Katech Inc. 586-791-4120 (http://katechengines.com/performance/vehicles/c6-z06/)

Katech engines are UBER expensive. :willy:

[dwjz06]

Katech engines are UBER expensive. :willy:

They have different packages. Might be worth a talk and a look.:cert:

As they say pay me now or pay me later. How many engines you want to build or go through?:seasix:

[Datawiz]

They have different packages. Might be worth a talk and a look.:cert:

As they say pay me now or pay me later. How many engines you want to build or go through?:seasix:

I already bought the TSP Engine. From my research, they are one of the top notch builders out there. I think it'll work out for what I'm doing. Engine will see much reduced duty compared to the past 8 years, as it will only be a 1-2 lap novelty on autocross race weekends, as I'll continue to buy events in other cars. It will start doing more HPDE's, but likely only 3-4 per year.

[island14]

Tim,

My venue is a mile long, and concrete, so putting the power down is nothing. I'm truly looking to get more into road course HPDE's. I've already done them in that car, and while fun, I want more power. I've had the car for 8 years and am bored. I don't care if it's useless on smaller autocross courses, as I simply buy rides in capable cars, like the supercharged Miata I'm racing this season.

I'm doing this for several reasons; obviously I have to, cuz the existing engine is dead, but I plan on keeping this car forever, I want it to stay an LS7 but with a nice bump in power, yet remaining all motor. I want to keep playing with it, and want an engine that's durable. :yesnod:


Craig I know racing is racing.. and Moar power is what everyone wants.

It's your money, and spend it how you want..

But like I said before, you are already kicking everyone's ass around you.

Just a thought though, instead of just HP have you thought about cheating up your chassis some? :island14:

So much to be gained there.. :yesnod:

I know a guy in Fla not far from you working as a racing adviser, ARCA, NASCAR, Late Models dirt or pavement.. he's not free, and does it as a living.. but I will guarantee you that even with your old engine, just some chassis updates, and keeping it within the rules (well kinda sorta :D but you wont get busted) he will knock another second off of your lap times I promise.. :yesnod:

Larry Moore.. He is a retired driver with more short track wins on Pavement and Dirt tracks than we can count, and big money races even... google him.

He was the first dirt driver to ever win over $250.000 in one year, also won the world 100 three times.. (Pays $100,000 to win..) :yesnod:

Interested? Ill go dig out his email for you..

Knowledge is power! :yesnod:


:cert:

[island14]

I just googled Larry Moore, didn't work out so well... add "racing" to the search.. :lol:

[Datawiz]

At the price point you are talking about, have you considered a step back on the engine and buying something else to be a "fun" track day car? Maybe even look towards something like a Radical or other non-production based car. As I mentioned partially in humor before, you're at the cost of my entire car with what you're proposing.

In the next 12 months, I'm planning on putting the broken LS7 into a Miata with a V8 conversion. :yesnod: Cheap as hell to race, but still fast as shit. My daughter and I will get to learn the rotating mass of an engine, which is the last tiny bit that we both have no exposure to. :yesnod:

[vetteman9368]

Dart makes an aluminum LSNext block that solves all the oiling issues :yesnod: may be worth considering, and also, considering a machine shop. Those prices don't seem great...$400 for a cam that you can buy anywhere, if I were spending that much money, I'd want a discount on the parts at a minimum.

If you're already in that ball park, what's a little more for something you'll never be able to kill, and was purpose built for exactly what you're using it for.

I'll just leave this here: Engine Tech: Borowski Builds Mild-mannered 427ci With LS Next Block - LSXTV (http://www.lsxtv.com/tech-stories/engine/engine-tech-borowski-builds-mild-mannered-427ci-with-ls-next-block/)

Dart LS Next (http://borowskirace.com/Dart_LS_Next.html)

Can I take this moment to urge you to replace all of your oil coolers, and take a good long look at your oil connectors, lines, pumps, and filter heads?


The LSNext Block is pure race, and starts at $3500 bare for an aluminum one. It also requires a different oil pan and a few other one off pieces.

[Stangkiller]

The LSNext Block is pure race, and starts at $3500 bare for an aluminum one. It also requires a different oil pan and a few other one off pieces.

And? Sounds like it would have been worth the consideration for Craig's purpose, especially now that he's planning more HPDE with it than autoX

[RedLS1GTO]

In the next 12 months, I'm planning on putting the broken LS7 into a Miata with a V8 conversion. :yesnod: Cheap as hell to race, but still fast as shit. My daughter and I will get to learn the rotating mass of an engine, which is the last tiny bit that we both have no exposure to. :yesnod:

Dear God. Is there any part of a Miata's drivetrain that can hold 500hp??

[Datawiz]

Dear God. Is there any part of a Miata's drivetrain that can hold 500hp??

:lol:

[island14]

Dear God. Is there any part of a Miata's drivetrain that can hold 500hp??


We are about to find out.. :lol:

Actually sounds fun.. :yesnod:


:cert:

[Datawiz]

Sure! If you replace it all...:rofl:

Pretty much. :yesnod:

[CertInsaneC5]

Dear God. Is there any part of a Miata's drivetrain that can hold 500hp??

We are about to find out.. :lol:

Actually sounds fun.. :yesnod:


:cert:

Sure! If you replace it all...:rofl:

Pretty much. :yesnod:

And then there is the chassis to consider. I doubt it will go untouched. :rofl:

[Datawiz]

And then there is the chassis to consider. I doubt it will go untouched. :rofl:

FlyinMiata.com sells V8 kits for Miatas all day long. Lots of changes, but LOTS of fun. Christ, you can't touch an existing V8 Miata for less than 13-15k :yesnod:

[markids77]

FlyinMiata.com sells V8 kits for Miatas all day long. Lots of changes, but LOTS of fun. Christ, you can't touch an existing V8 Miata for less than 13-15k :yesnod:

Tremec has transmissions that will fit. There is a Lincoln disc brake rear that fits with minimum mods; and there is a kit for that as well. Hard Dog makes a plethora of chassis add ons to stiffen the tub. You could get as wild on the mods as you wish; someone has already gone there and is marketing the fruits of their development.