Minnesota dentist shoots protected lion in Africa.

[Kerrmudgeon]

Very sad news, and I hope they string this asshole up by his balls! Cecil the lion a favourite on the safari park shot with a bow, found skinned and decapitated.....:sadangel:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCIQqQIwAGoVChMIq-Od8bD_xgIVko6SCh23sQs-&url=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2FInternational%2Fminnesota-dentist-acknowledges-killing-zimbabwe-lion-named-cecil%2Fstory%3Fid%3D32733466&ei=Q0a4Veu1LpKdygS3467wAw&usg=AFQjCNFR1z7XHfEHI2j-CHctM7BLnwJdCg&sig2=mRLljkiH8zOkXrVphY4W6A&bvm=bv.98717601,d.aWw

http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/HT_cecil_lion_01_jef_150728_4x3_992.jpg

[OddBall]

From the article, it seems that his guides screwed up.

[Aerovette]

You wanna shoot something dangerous? Head over to Iraq where what you're shooting shoots back.

[ZipZap]

While I detest shooting game animals for sport, it's legal if done by the law. Not for me, but I find it hard to push my views on others. It appears as though the local guides were the real culprits. What I am wondering about, is why did the hunter not take any action when the GPS collar was on the animal and subsequently removed?

Hell, if I found a mouse in a trap I set had tags, or a collar, I'd be trying to figure out which study I just fricked up.

Sadly, or not sadly depending on your opinion, this guy's business and career just went down the drain.

Having said all of this, I just can't imagine the thrill of killing an animal for sport. I have no qualms with meat hunting, or even hunting when culling is needed. Killing a lion may be legal, but what controls are on the hunt when the kill may affect generations to come?

[Kerrmudgeon]

While I detest shooting game animals for sport, it's legal if done by the law. Not for me, but I find it hard to push my views on others. It appears as though the local guides were the real culprits. What I am wondering about, is why did the hunter not take any action when the GPS collar was on the animal and subsequently removed?

Hell, if I found a mouse in a trap I set had tags, or a collar, I'd be trying to figure out which study I just fricked up.

Sadly, or not sadly depending on your opinion, this guy's business and career just went down the drain.

Having said all of this, I just can't imagine the thrill of killing an animal for sport. I have no qualms with meat hunting, or even hunting when culling is needed. Killing a lion may be legal, but what controls are on the hunt when the kill may affect generations to come?

:iagree:......and he sure hi tailed it out of that country when he took his trophy. Now he's blaming his guides......bullshit! He still took the photos and head after he found the collar. The guides then helped hustle him out of the country! :issues:

[VatorMan]

That was his second brush with the law concerning big game hunting. He has zero credibility. I hope he goes to prison in Africa.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

That was his second brush with the law concerning big game hunting. He has zero credibility. I hope he goes to prison in Africa.

Not to mention the sexual harassment claims. This guy is garbage.

Yeah, I know it's legal, but trophy hunting Lions needs to fuking stop.

[island14]

From the article, it seems that his guides screwed up.


Someones lion.. :yesnod:

[island14]

Not to mention the sexual harassment claims. This guy is garbage.

Yeah, I know it's legal, but trophy hunting Lions needs to fuking stop.

I agree that its wrong to kill anything that you're not going to eat..

But then again some of these large predatory cats are eating people.. :(

[Bill]

If the guy was close enough to kill the lion with a bow, you'd think he was close enough to see the lion's collar. Even if he didn't see the collar until it was too late, he knew it had a collar when (most probably his "guides") butchered the cat. He should have said something at that point. Instead, he escaped back to America with his trophy.

I have no problem with hunting as long as the animal's meat is harvested and eaten by somebody, but just slaughtering animals for sport, for a head mount? Yeah, I just don't get it.

[Iron Chef]

I agree that its wrong to kill anything that you're not going to eat..

But then again some of these large predatory cats are eating people.. :(

True, but animals don't kill for sport...they kill either because they're threatened or to eat. Humans...sadly...know exactly what they're doing.

Sport hunting is just brutal to me. I don't really understand the appeal of killing something for the sake of saying you were able to do it. And all these "sportsmen" who brag about their "skill" and so forth? How lame. Doesn't take any skill at all to shoot something at 50 yards with a high powered rifle. Or sitting in a tree stand waiting for some animals to come along. Might as well shoot your dog.

They should take this guy and release him in the area where he shot the lion. No gun, no nothing. Let's see how he likes it.

[VatorMan]

True, but animals don't kill for sport...they kill either because they're threatened or to eat. Humans...sadly...know exactly what they're doing.

Sport hunting is just brutal to me. I don't really understand the appeal of killing something for the sake of saying you were able to do it. And all these "sportsmen" who brag about their "skill" and so forth? How lame. Doesn't take any skill at all to shoot something at 50 yards with a high powered rifle. Or sitting in a tree stand waiting for some animals to come along. Might as well shoot your dog.

They should take this guy and release him in the area where he shot the lion. No gun, no nothing. Let's see how he likes it.

Now I'm not going to go that far. Deer hunting serves a purpose. Cull the herd. Sports hunting big game ? Not a fan.

[Iron Chef]

Now I'm not going to go that far. Deer hunting serves a purpose. Cull the herd.

Perhaps. I know there are some animals that multiply out of control, but there has to be a more humane way to accomplish that.

It also could be said that the reason that happens is...surprise!....we humans have upset the natural balance.

[VatorMan]

Perhaps. I know there are some animals that multiply out of control, but there has to be a more humane way to accomplish that.

It also could be said that the reason that happens is...surprise!....we humans have upset the natural balance.

I know where you are going with this-but guess what ? Even you displaced something when your house was built. Probably a shitload of fire ants. :funnier:

[Aerovette]

I kind of chuckle at deer hunters here.

Feed them
Feed them
Feed them
Feed them
Shoot them

Almost like hunting in a petting zoo.

[Iron Chef]

I know where you are going with this-but guess what ? Even you displaced something when your house was built. Probably a shitload of fire ants. :funnier:

All of us are to blame for that...no denials. I was careful about the fire ants though. I moved them all to a neighbor's yard. :D

I kind of chuckle at deer hunters here.

Feed them
Feed them
Feed them
Feed them
Shoot them

Almost like hunting in a petting zoo.

Yep. Like shooting your dog.

[yell01]

I kind of chuckle at deer hunters here.

Feed them
Feed them
Feed them
Feed them
Shoot them

Almost like hunting in a petting zoo.

My feelings exactly. What you said above and especially this douchebag who killed the lion to me aren't hunters. Hunting is tracking something, not luring it to an easy spot. What makes me really mad is that they tied an animal carcass to a car bumper to get the lion out of the park. I'm betting this is how this "big game hunter" hunts all of his "trophies".

I can only hope that this guy loses all his business and everything he has as a result. Hopefully karma the bitch is in his future.

[Bill]

Perhaps. I know there are some animals that multiply out of control, but there has to be a more humane way to accomplish that.

It also could be said that the reason that happens is...surprise!....we humans have upset the natural balance.

In the case of deer, you are absolutely right. Humans have greatly encroached on their habitat, meaning there isn't as much forage available for them as there used to be. That's just the cold, hard facts. Now, given those facts, is it more humane to have deer that don't have enough to eat starve to death slowly, or to shoot some, and give the rest a chance?

All states have a wildlife conservation agency tasked with making sure wildlife is protected. We see that in Texas, with the size and bag limits changing on certain species of saltwater fishes, based on how they are doing out in the Gulf.

[Bill]

I kind of chuckle at deer hunters here.

Feed them
Feed them
Feed them
Feed them
Shoot them

Almost like hunting in a petting zoo.

We mow and clear pipeline right-of-ways. I see deer stands out the wazoo, and some of the stand owners do plant grass in the shooting lane, many more bait the area around their stands with deer corn. And many of them apparently use the pipeline marker signs to sight in their rifles.

[VatorMan]

Here at our facility, DNR gives our deer birth control.













I've heard it's a bitch to put the condoms on.

[Iron Chef]

Wow...the international furor is building. I bet this clown's hunting career is over.

Cecil the lion killer Walter J Palmer goes into hiding as Zimbabwe police want to speak to him | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3177303/PICTURED-American-dentist-passion-hunting-killed-Cecil-Lion-bow-arrow-Zimbabwe.html)

[Burro (He/Haw)]

This kind of wanton cruelty... death for fun and money... are things I have absolutely zero... and I mean zero tolerance for. We all should take a stand for something in this life... recognizing that not everyone will like you for it, or agree with you... but this is where I personally draw the line and plant my flag. Fuk this guy.

[Millenium Vette]

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/tom5518/CFOT/2AE9D28300000578-3177303-image-a-11_1438107127214_zpsuzuirp5x.jpg~original

This dentist hunter dude even looks like a dick. I bet Thomas could kick his ass.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/tom5518/CFOT/2AE9D28300000578-3177303-image-a-11_1438107127214_zpsuzuirp5x.jpg~original

This dentist hunter dude even looks like a dick. I bet Thomas could kick his ass.

I'd knock his fuking teeth out and maybe he could self medicate. :lol:

[NCC-1701]

It appears that the lion was lured out of his protected area by tying a dead carcass on the back of a truck to get the lion to move. This POS vett then be headed the lion and if that is not enough when the ****er shot it with an arrow he wounded the lion and took two days to find it again and when he found it he shot it with a rifle I would personally rip this guys limbs off and torture him till he died a miserable death Isis could take lessons from me on this one. I would outlaw any hunting on tigers leopards lions elephants apes etc and of course whales.

[Aerovette]

I'd knock his fuking teeth out and maybe he could self medicate. :lol:

His, bought and paid for teeth, not his "by birth" teeth. He looks like one of those grinning dogs from the TV commercials.

Jockhole needs his head mounted in a lion's den.

[mrvette]

A few friends and I used to hunt wild game......


on another guy's horse farm....~200 yard shots from hill top to hill top/side/valley spotting scopes, looking to wipe out the ground hogs that dug holes everywhere breaking horses' legs.....


blew the nutz off more than one of them, one of them refused to die, second shot, still kicking, we ran up fast as we could, pulled out the .45 and shot at point blank range,....TWICE before that tough little bastard was still......

been a few decades....:seasix:

I put out rat/mice poison in the workshop/garage.......it was all gone this AM put out more.....even the big blocks were nibbled on pretty good.....

:rofl:

And I do :sadangel: for the Lion, damn shame....:sadangel:

[Madmikeee]

I just want to know one thing. How much for a license so we can hunt HIM?? :D

[RedLS1GTO]

My time in the military (at least I think that's what did it) has greatly changed my views on things like hunting. Growing up I went deer hunting a few times. For perspective, I have done more damage to the deer population with my old GMC Yukon than I ever did with a bow or a gun. My hunting was COMPLETELY for food. I never felt a thrill or a sense of accomplishment but I wasn't necessarily opposed to it either. As was said, it felt more unfair than anything else.

Now, even with deer... I live in the middle of overpopulated deer country... I have no desire whatsoever to hunt them, even for food. I don't even like the thought of it. Outside of maybe an occasional fish, I'm perfectly happy not to kill a defenseless animal ever again. Hell, as I think about it, it's been a decade since I went fishing.

Now sh*t like THIS guy? Killing a lion for no reason other than "fun"?? Screw him. Drop the worthless POS in the middle of a lion's den as far as I'm concerned. Anybody who would enjoy killing an animal like that clearly has mental issues. I hope it ruins him completely.

I'd also venture to say that he falls in the category of pathetic cowards who like to claim they're cool but lack the courage to man up like aerovette said and hunt something that will fight back.



Oh, and snakes. F**k snakes. I will kill the hell out of a snake. :issues:

[VatorMan]

Oh, and snakes. F**k snakes. I will kill the hell out of a snake. :issues:

In Soviet Russia- snake hunts you !

http://i.imgur.com/Dhc06C5.gif

[island14]

In Soviet Russia- snake hunts you !

http://i.imgur.com/Dhc06C5.gif

Looks like that mofo got him... :yesnod:

Fawkkkkkkkk, I hate snakes!!!!

I use to have nightmares about cobra's when I was a kid.. and had another not long ago.

[RedLS1GTO]

For some reason I think I'm glad that image doesn't make it through our content filters here at work. :ohnoes:

[Millenium Vette]

His, bought and paid for teeth, not his "by birth" teeth. He looks like one of those grinning dogs from the TV commercials.

Jockhole needs his head mounted in a lion's den.

Great observation, but I doubt he did it that way to look like a grinning dog. He probably did it so the dicks would slide in his mouth easier. His patients probably wake up with their pants unzipped.

[island14]

A few friends and I used to hunt wild game......




I thought this was going to be about back in your bar hopping days.. :datawiz:

[Iron Chef]

I think there's a pretty good chance that this jackhole's dental practice might be toast. Would serve him right.

[NavyC5]

Flame suit on but here goes...

How about we get all the facts prior to convicting this guy based on what the media is reporting. I've been following this case from the beginning. First it was "he lured the lion off the preserve", then it was "his hunting guide lured the lion", now the latest story is he booked the hunt thru a guide service and stated he was told all permits were in place and the hunt was legal.

Not saying one way or another but to me the furor over this case is no different than Baltimore or Trevon Martin. A lot of people are jumping to conclusion before the facts are known.

If you objection is against hunting, that's fine, you have the right to believe what you want. However if you objection is to THIS hunt I suggest waiting until all the facts are known until rendering judgement.

Standing by for the beat down

[ApexOversteer]

:iagree:......and he sure hi tailed it out of that country when he took his trophy. Now he's blaming his guides......bullshit! He still took the photos and head after he found the collar. The guides then helped hustle him out of the country! :issues:

FWIW, he didn't get the head. Authorities have it, so no trophy.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Standing by for the beat down
No beat down.

Hunting for trophy is pathetic regardless of the facts of this case.

[ApexOversteer]

I think there's a pretty good chance that this jackhole's dental practice might be toast. Would serve him right.

One report I saw mentioned the boarded-up office and patients with appointments showing up not knowing he was closed.

[NavyC5]

No beat down.

Hunting for trophy is pathetic regardless of the facts of this case.

So what does that make the elk head on my wall? It's a trophy....however, I also ate the meat from the animal. Plus I have the once in a lifetime experience of taking the animal on a hunt with my father. He was literally 5 feet away when I pulled the trigger. An awesome day all around.

[RedLS1GTO]

If you objection is against hunting, that's fine, you have the right to believe what you want. However if you objection is to THIS hunt I suggest waiting until all the facts are known until rendering judgement.

I have no issue with hunting for food... As I said, I now have no desire to do it myself but have zero problem with those who do.

But this:

Hunting for trophy is pathetic regardless of the facts of this case.

Is spot on.

Killing something that doesn't even know it should be fighting back just so you can hang it's head on your wall is... well... pathetic really is a good word. Whether it's legal or not or the guy was tricked, or whatever he is saying is completely irrelevant. He killed a lion so he could hang it on his wall. It wasn't for food. It wasn't to help nature in some way. It was because he is a cowardly b*tch who wanted to feel powerful.

F**k him.

[RedLS1GTO]

So what does that make the elk head on my wall? It's a trophy....however, I also ate the meat from the animal. Plus I have the once in a lifetime experience of taking the animal on a hunt with my father. He was literally 5 feet away when I pulled the trigger. An awesome day all around.

Not to answer for Thomas... but IMO, If you had skinned it, cut off it's head, and left it to rot where it fell... you would be a colossal douche like this guy.

Based on what you say, that's not the case.

[Dan Dlabay]

I hope he pays dearly for this.Wounding a animal then hunting it down and killing it is not sport or big game hunting.

[ApexOversteer]

Not to answer for Thomas... but IMO, If you had skinned it, cut off it's head, and left it to rot where it fell... you would be a colossal douche like this guy.

Based on what you say, that's not the case.

:iagree:

Eat the meat, or give/share it... makes ALL the difference between hunting and douchebaggery...

[NavyC5]

:iagree:

Eat the meat, or give/share it... makes ALL the difference between hunting and douchebaggery...

I agree with you 100% on that. My point is still the same, not all the facts are known. If his was interested in just the trophy but gave the meat to someone else. We don't know. I've shot several deer in Alabama but gave the meat to a local charity.

If he guy left the meat to rot, no excuse...my point is people should wait until all the facts are known.

[RedLS1GTO]

If he guy left the meat to rot, no excuse...my point is people should wait until all the facts are known.

I've seen arguments that he was duped, etc... the things that will keep him out of jail, but I haven't seen any argument with this:

The 13-year-old lion was found skinned and headless earlier this month outside a national park.

[DukeAllen]

I'm no hunter, never been, never had any desire. But I have nothing against hunting for food. And I can't see hunting for fun.

Having said all that, anyone that says this human being should be killed, injured, put out of business, for shooting an animal has a frikkin screw loose.

[RedLS1GTO]

I'm no hunter, never been, never had any desire. But I have nothing against hunting for food. And I can't see hunting for fun.

Having said all that, anyone that says this human being should be killed, injured, put out of business, for shooting an animal has a frikkin screw loose.

He shouldn't be killed. If he wants to hunt a lion for sport he should be allowed to do so... with his bare hands.

Seriously, what kind of sick f**k actually enjoys watching an animal like this die for no reason other than to hang it's head on a wall? THAT'S the person that has a frikkin screw loose.

[99 pewtercoupe]

I have only done a limited amount of hunting (upland birds like pheasant and quail) and always ate & enjoyed what I shot
Trophy hunting has zero appeal to me however (donning flame suit now) there are some few cases where it may be beneficial. SCI sponsors hunts where a shooter may pay up to six figures to kill an older specimen in very controlled circumstances. The money funds programs designed to increase the overall population and health of the species.

Obviously something other than that happened here

[Burro (He/Haw)]

So what does that make the elk head on my wall? It's a trophy....however, I also ate the meat from the animal.


Was the sole purpose of your hunt to mount the head on your wall? If it was, that's crummy.

I've got all the facts I need regarding this Lion situation. This fukhead killed this animal strictly for bragging rights and a mount. Legal or not, this guy is a piece of shit.

[DukeAllen]

Was the sole purpose of your hunt to mount the head on your wall? If it was, that's crummy.

I've got all the facts I need regarding this Lion situation. This fukhead killed this animal strictly for bragging rights and a mount. Legal or not, this guy is a piece of shit.

Then don't get your dentures from him.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Then don't get your dentures from him.

Thanks for the advice.

I don't think anyone will be getting their dentures from this asshole. :rofl::rofl:

[OddBall]

I agree with you 100% on that. My point is still the same, not all the facts are known. If his was interested in just the trophy but gave the meat to someone else. We don't know. I've shot several deer in Alabama but gave the meat to a local charity.

If he guy left the meat to rot, no excuse...my point is people should wait until all the facts are known.

:iagree: That.

Now having agreed with that:
I still don't understand trophy hunting. I've taken many a deer. Used every part that I could. Gave away skins to folks that tanned them. Kept antlers and made things out of them, Still got a box of them. Never once mounted a head. Just cost to much, and didn't really interest me.

Hunting predators should only be a game management practice.

[stingraymyway]

This kind of wanton cruelty... death for fun and money... are things I have absolutely zero... and I mean zero tolerance for. We all should take a stand for something in this life... recognizing that not everyone will like you for it, or agree with you... but this is where I personally draw the line and plant my flag. Fuk this guy.

:iagree:
That ignorant half a bastard. :issues:


On a side note. Change your avatar Thomas before it gives me a seizure.:shots:

[Millenium Vette]

Flame suit on but here goes...

How about we get all the facts prior to convicting this guy based on what the media is reporting. I've been following this case from the beginning. First it was "he lured the lion off the preserve", then it was "his hunting guide lured the lion", now the latest story is he booked the hunt thru a guide service and stated he was told all permits were in place and the hunt was legal.

Not saying one way or another but to me the furor over this case is no different than Baltimore or Trevon Martin. A lot of people are jumping to conclusion before the facts are known.

If you objection is against hunting, that's fine, you have the right to believe what you want. However if you objection is to THIS hunt I suggest waiting until all the facts are known until rendering judgement.

Standing by for the beat down

I agree and am at least waiting for the 911 call tapes to be released before I come to any conclusions......


FWIW, this assbag has been busted before for lying to authorities about game he took. There is enough evidence already that it doesn't take Crockett and Tubbs to figure out all these guys messed up and intended to do just that.

[99 pewtercoupe]

On a side note. Change your avatar Thomas before it gives me a seizure.:shots:

Please do. That thing gives me a headache within seconds

[Millenium Vette]

On a side note. Change your avatar Thomas before it gives me a seizure.:shots:

Please do. That thing gives me a headache within seconds

:iagree:

I keep mistaking you for LATB.

[Kerrmudgeon]

The only possible way hunting of this endangered animals should be allowed, and it should be VERY expensive at that, would be with tranquilizer guns like they use to move the big animals, or pick them up to let the vets work on them.
Go out, find them, get close enough to dart them, run up and get your "trophy" pics with it and leave it to wake up and live it's life. Man has all that technology to do that, and yet still issues permits to kill them. Sad, very sad. :(

And yes, I hope the egotistical pretentious asshole has his life destroyed in all ways because of this. :issues:

[OddBall]

The only possible way hunting of this endangered animals should be allowed, and it should be VERY expensive at that, would be with tranquilizer guns like they use to move the big animals, or pick them up to let the vets work on them.
Go out, find them, get close enough to dart them, run up and get your "trophy" pics with it and leave it to wake up and live it's life. Man has all that technology to do that, and yet still issues permits to kill them. Sad, very sad. :(

And yes, I hope the egotistical pretentious asshole has his life destroyed in all ways because of this. :issues:

Their numbers aren't declining because of hunts. Their numbers are on the decline because of habitat loss from human populations. This isolates and promotes disease. They will probably go the way of the tiger in the next half century.

[Kerrmudgeon]

Their numbers aren't declining because of hunts. Their numbers are on the decline because of habitat loss from human populations. This isolates and promotes disease. They will probably go the way of the tiger in the next half century.

Ya, I got that, but that's got little to do with what i was saying about the dart gun hunt possibilities for those idiots who still want to puff out their chest like a cave man. It's happened in the sport fishing industry all ready. Catch and release. :yesnod:

[PortDawg]

I hunt Deer. I eat what I kill. Venison is lean and tasty. I would like to Elk hunt someday and I will eat all of that meat also. I've hunted Duck, Quail and Pheasant. Again I eat what I kill.

With that said. I hunt Coyotes. I have a farm and cannot afford to have them eating my Chickens, Ducks or Peacocks. I do not eat the Coyotes.

[OddBall]

Ya, I got that, but that's got little to do with what i was saying about the dart gun hunt possibilities for those idiots who still want to puff out their chest like a cave man. It's happened in the sport fishing industry all ready. Catch and release. :yesnod:

That would be just torturing the animal. (I don't agree with the sport fishing either) If you need to kill it, then kill it. Don't just give it a life of torment; leave it the f'ck alone.

[Kerrmudgeon]

I hunt Deer. I eat what I kill. Venison is lean and tasty. I would like to Elk hunt someday and I will eat all of that meat also. I've hunted Duck, Quail and Pheasant. Again I eat what I kill.

With that said. I hunt Coyotes. I have a farm and cannot afford to have them eating my Chickens, Ducks or Peacocks. I do not eat the Coyotes.

You could probably use the skins and leave the meat far away from your farm to feed the other Coyotes so they wouldn't be so hungry? Win win.:bilmem:

[Bill]

Here's the Devil's Advocate post here.


Dirt poor third world countries (like Zimbabwe and other African countries) use the license fees from guys like this to help run their game preserves, to employ game wardens to help stop poaching, etc. If this was not a source of income, these countries that can barely feed themselves would have no wildlife preservation programs at all. I have also heard that the meat from these government approved safari hunts is donated to the local villagers.

Even in Texas, hunting tourism is a pretty big industry. In third world Africa, it's probably even more important.

I also would like to hear all the facts. However, the one damning fact that I don't see any way around is, the lion had a tracking collar on. Let's say the Great White Hope there didn't see the collar when he shot Cecil. He damn sure would have seen it when he was decapitating it. At that point, he had to know that they had screwed up, and instead of addressing it, he got to the airport post haste.

[Czarvette]

So what does that make the elk head on my wall? It's a trophy....however, I also ate the meat from the animal. Plus I have the once in a lifetime experience of taking the animal on a hunt with my father. He was literally 5 feet away when I pulled the trigger. An awesome day all around.

I'm not sure the elk had an awesome day.

[Czarvette]

The only possible way hunting of this endangered animals should be allowed, and it should be VERY expensive at that, would be with tranquilizer guns like they use to move the big animals, or pick them up to let the vets work on them.
Go out, find them, get close enough to dart them, run up and get your "trophy" pics with it and leave it to wake up and live it's life. Man has all that technology to do that, and yet still issues permits to kill them. Sad, very sad. :(

And yes, I hope the egotistical pretentious asshole has his life destroyed in all ways because of this. :issues:

Better yet, hunt with a camera. You can brag about how short a focal length lens you used.

[island14]

I hunt Deer. I eat what I kill. Venison is lean and tasty. I would like to Elk hunt someday and I will eat all of that meat also. I've hunted Duck, Quail and Pheasant. Again I eat what I kill.

With that said. I hunt Coyotes. I have a farm and cannot afford to have them eating my Chickens, Ducks or Peacocks. I do not eat the Coyotes.


Not defending this butt dildo from the story above..

But I can sure see where some of the locals there may not want to see Cecil roaming around in their area also for the same reasons.

Cecil would have no problems making a snack out of one of your kids. :yesnod:



I don't hunt anything.. and use to have plenty of deer right in my own yard that I could have just shot out the window with ease while watching TV in my heated home.

I don't care for the meat, and always thought it was cool to just look out and see them now and then.. :seasix:

But I have no issues with someone shooting them that cooks them, or donates the meat to someone for food..


At the same time I will kill anything that I feel is a danger to my kids, and use to kill about 6 or 7 copperheads a year near our home when I lived in Southern Ohio.

Almost got a timber rattler one time also (illegal to kill but don't give a shit)

[NCC-1701]

I'm no hunter, never been, never had any desire. But I have nothing against hunting for food. And I can't see hunting for fun.

Having said all that, anyone that says this human being should be killed, injured, put out of business, for shooting an animal has a frikkin screw loose.

I don't consider this pos a human.

[Iron Chef]

Lots of different arguments here, but let’s look at a few...

“I eat what I kill.” None of us lives on the frontier and we’re not forced to hunt as a matter of survival. Saying that you eat what you kill might be a convenient way for someone to rationalize the fact that they’re killing for sport, but when you scrape away the sugar coating, that’s still what it is. Taking the kill home and eating it is slightly more palatable than just cutting off the head so you can put it in your den and leaving the carcass to rot. But only slightly.

“Culling the herd/too many animals” I see that point, but in my mind there should be a more humane way to deal with the issue. Let’s face it...would you rather see a terminally ill relative be allowed to die as peacefully and pain free as possible, or would you rather take them out in a field and shoot them with a gun or a bow? I would assume that your answer is the latter, and I personally don’t see why animals deserve any less kindness.

Let’s also not forget that the reason some species are overpopulated is because we humans have encroached on their habitat. We have ourselves to blame for throwing that ecosystem out of balance.

The hunting business in Texas is a joke. It may bring in a lot of money, but “canned hunts” are like shooting your dog. People pay a bunch of money to make themselves feel like “sportsmen.” And the Texas economy wouldn’t suffer one bit if the canned hunt business suddenly went away.

I’m not a gun lover or hater. I have nothing against responsible firearm ownership. Hunting is a different matter. Unless it’s a question of survival (and in the 21st century, there are few if any circumstances where it is), I don’t think it has a place in society. I’m not going to throw animal blood on anyone or refuse to be friends with people who hunt. It’s their choice and their business...just not my cuppa tea. If you want to do it, go do it. Just don’t use silly excuses and justifications to explain why you do it.

[island14]

Lots of different arguments here, but let’s look at a few...

“I eat what I kill.” None of us lives on the frontier and we’re not forced to hunt as a matter of survival. Saying that you eat what you kill might be a convenient way for someone to rationalize the fact that they’re killing for sport, but when you scrape away the sugar coating, that’s still what it is. Taking the kill home and eating it is slightly more palatable than just cutting off the head so you can put it in your den and leaving the carcass to rot. But only slightly.

“Culling the herd/too many animals” I see that point, but in my mind there should be a more humane way to deal with the issue. Let’s face it...would you rather see a terminally ill relative be allowed to die as peacefully and pain free as possible, or would you rather take them out in a field and shoot them with a gun or a bow? I would assume that your answer is the latter, and I personally don’t see why animals deserve any less kindness.

Let’s also not forget that the reason some species are overpopulated is because we humans have encroached on their habitat. We have ourselves to blame for throwing that ecosystem out of balance.

The hunting business in Texas is a joke. It may bring in a lot of money, but “canned hunts” are like shooting your dog. People pay a bunch of money to make themselves feel like “sportsmen.” And the Texas economy wouldn’t suffer one bit if the canned hunt business suddenly went away.

I’m not a gun lover or hater. I have nothing against responsible firearm ownership. Hunting is a different matter. Unless it’s a question of survival (and in the 21st century, there are few if any circumstances where it is), I don’t think it has a place in society. I’m not going to throw animal blood on anyone or refuse to be friends with people who hunt. It’s their choice and their business...just not my cuppa tea. If you want to do it, go do it. Just don’t use silly excuses and justifications to explain why you do it.


I have a different mindset..

And again I am not defending the asswipe in the news as I agree he is a worthless piece of shit.. :yesnod:

For me, If Cecil roamed around my village I would have no issues shooting that big predator cat just because he would be a danger to my children.

I don't want his head... or his skin.. and that mofo could just rot in the field for all I care.. :seasix:

If some of the villagers would eat the meat they can have it.. for FREE!


But seriously have you ever ate cat? :island14:

Mannnnnnn..... them mofos are pretty chewing no matter how long you boil the meat first...

And no.. they do not taste like Chicken

[Iron Chef]

For me, If Cecil roamed around my village I would have no issues shooting that big predator cat just because he would be a danger to my children.

Agreed. There are some cases where it's a matter of survival. And in that situation where you're protecting your family from a predator, I'd be in 100% agreement that the animal be put down.

Here's a counterpoint: What would be wrong with hunting down the animal...in this case a lion...tranquilizing it and then relocating it to a more remote location where it doesn't pose a threat?

[NCC-1701]

I agree with you two if your going to eat it as in game deer elk bison carabu(sp) etc I have no issues I love meat or killing something that is going to kill you or someone else that's all fair game. To kill just because and majestic animals at that to me is senseless and those people need to be severely punished. What type of person (animal) in this case be heads a lion think of that that is a sick POS.

It's just like people who kill bald eagles for what reason do you want to kill this bird.

Whales why would you want to kill a whale. People are sick and hold no regards for any type of life.

[Fastguy]

Here's the Devil's Advocate post here.


Dirt poor third world countries (like Zimbabwe and other African countries) use the license fees from guys like this to help run their game preserves, to employ game wardens to help stop poaching, etc. If this was not a source of income, these countries that can barely feed themselves would have no wildlife preservation programs at all. I have also heard that the meat from these government approved safari hunts is donated to the local villagers.

Even in Texas, hunting tourism is a pretty big industry. In third world Africa, it's probably even more important.

I also would like to hear all the facts. However, the one damning fact that I don't see any way around is, the lion had a tracking collar on. Let's say the Great White Hope there didn't see the collar when he shot Cecil. He damn sure would have seen it when he was decapitating it. At that point, he had to know that they had screwed up, and instead of addressing it, he got to the airport post haste.


I have been hearing a bit of this, the regulated hunts are all that keeps the majority of the animals safe from poachers and habitat loss. They buy up land to maintain wilderness for the animals and patrol it, sacrificing a few for the greater good of the population. I have no desire to ever trophy hunt anything (though I do like to fish) but I feel a lot of people are not seeing the big picture. If regulated hunts (and this one obviously went wrong) can guarantee the survival of the majority, I feel it is better than banning it altogether and watching the population go extinct due to habitat loss.
We are on the brink of losing the white rhino (4 left in the world) due to hunting, but I would have rather seen it regulated and protected versus poached into extinction.

[PortDawg]

Lots of different arguments here, but let’s look at a few...

“I eat what I kill.” None of us lives on the frontier and we’re not forced to hunt as a matter of survival. Saying that you eat what you kill might be a convenient way for someone to rationalize the fact that they’re killing for sport, but when you scrape away the sugar coating, that’s still what it is. Taking the kill home and eating it is slightly more palatable than just cutting off the head so you can put it in your den and leaving the carcass to rot. But only slightly.

“Culling the herd/too many animals” I see that point, but in my mind there should be a more humane way to deal with the issue. Let’s face it...would you rather see a terminally ill relative be allowed to die as peacefully and pain free as possible, or would you rather take them out in a field and shoot them with a gun or a bow? I would assume that your answer is the latter, and I personally don’t see why animals deserve any less kindness.

Let’s also not forget that the reason some species are overpopulated is because we humans have encroached on their habitat. We have ourselves to blame for throwing that ecosystem out of balance.

The hunting business in Texas is a joke. It may bring in a lot of money, but “canned hunts” are like shooting your dog. People pay a bunch of money to make themselves feel like “sportsmen.” And the Texas economy wouldn’t suffer one bit if the canned hunt business suddenly went away.

I’m not a gun lover or hater. I have nothing against responsible firearm ownership. Hunting is a different matter. Unless it’s a question of survival (and in the 21st century, there are few if any circumstances where it is), I don’t think it has a place in society. I’m not going to throw animal blood on anyone or refuse to be friends with people who hunt. It’s their choice and their business...just not my cuppa tea. If you want to do it, go do it. Just don’t use silly excuses and justifications to explain why you do it.

Was gonna Counter-Point this but not going to waste my time...you won't change your mind even if a logical argument was made so....Have a nice meat free day!

[99 pewtercoupe]

“I eat what I kill.” None of us lives on the frontier and we’re not forced to hunt as a matter of survival. Saying that you eat what you kill might be a convenient way for someone to rationalize the fact that they’re killing for sport, but when you scrape away the sugar coating, that’s still what it is. Taking the kill home and eating it is slightly more palatable than just cutting off the head so you can put it in your den and leaving the carcass to rot. But only slightly.


So do you believe all that neatly packaged meat in your supermarket was taken from humanly slaughtered animals that spent their lives in safe comfortable environments? Isn't that nice Styrofoam tray and wrapper covering something that is usually no longer recognizable as an animal just another way of insulating people from the reality that an animal was killed to provide your dinner?

[VatorMan]

Yea IC, the "enlightened" society thing-that was your inner California coming out. At least a deer hunter faces his meal-while an "enlightened" society buys their meat at the store.
Humane ? Ever been to a slaughterhouse ? At least the deer/elk/etc...had it's moment it was free.

[Iron Chef]

Was gonna Counter-Point this but not going to waste my time...you won't change your mind even if a logical argument was made so....Have a nice meat free day!

Of course...as though all the other silly things that we post on here are a much more valuable use of our time. :spdchk:

The logic you speak of is subjective. What is a logical argument to you may not be to me. Anyway, I didn't post what I said to change anyone's mind. It's my point of view and you're free to agree or disagree as you see fit. And spare me the "meat-free" nonsense. I enjoy eating meat products as much as anyone else.

So do you believe all that neatly packaged meat in your supermarket was taken from humanly slaughtered animals that spent their lives in safe comfortable environments? Isn't that nice Styrofoam tray and wrapper covering something that is usually no longer recognizable as an animal just another way of insulating people from the reality that an animal was killed to provide your dinner?

I know for a fact that not all meat is slaughtered humanely. For example, Kosher slaughter is extremely cruel...and I don't buy it. When I do buy meat, I try my level best to buy from places that have a reputation for following proper laws which are SUPPOSED to ensure the animals are treated properly. There are no guarantees.

Yea IC, the "enlightened" society thing-that was your inner California coming out. At least a deer hunter faces his meal-while an "enlightened" society buys their meat at the store.
Humane ? Ever been to a slaughterhouse ? At least the deer/elk/etc...had it's moment it was free.

Yeah VM...and making fun of California really lends a lot of credibility to your comment. No, I've never been to a slaughterhouse but my g/f goes regularly as part of her job as she is qualified to inspect them. I've seen a lot of video and read a lot of QA reports. The fact is that if proper procedures for meat processing are followed, it should be a very quiet, organized facility. If cattle are distressed, they are supposed to be immediately taken out of the chute before they go to the "knock box" and removed until they are calmed down. Same for swine. Clearly not everyone does what they are supposed to by law, and I don't have to purchase that meat.

Sorry, but an individual holding a shotgun to a deer at 50 yards is not exactly what I'd call "facing one's meal." YMMV

**sits back and waits patiently for what will surely be an onslaught of insults and personal attacks**

[RedLS1GTO]

Unless it’s a question of survival (and in the 21st century, there are few if any circumstances where it is), I don’t think it has a place in society.

Do you honestly believe that people only hunt in this country because they WANT to?? :skep: Have you ever spent any time in small, rural, not-wealthy communities? It's where I grew up... and where I currently live.

It is absolutely a question of survival for a huge number of people. Would they "die" if they didn't hunt deer? No, probably not, but it certainly plays a large role in feeding many families that I know. I can't count how many people in the area that I grew up in and very near to where I currently reside grow/hunt/raise a huge majority (if not all) of their food. When deer season comes around, it is not a matter of hanging heads on the wall. It is a matter of filling the freezers with enough meat to get through until next season.

You sure do seem to take for granted being able to drive up and walk into a store and pay $4.00+ for a pound of ground beef or some of those nicely packaged chicken breasts.

[Bill]

Of course...as though all the other silly things that we post on here are a much more valuable use of our time. :spdchk:

The logic you speak of is subjective. What is a logical argument to you may not be to me. Anyway, I didn't post what I said to change anyone's mind. It's my point of view and you're free to agree or disagree as you see fit. And spare me the "meat-free" nonsense. I enjoy eating meat products as much as anyone else.



I know for a fact that not all meat is slaughtered humanely. For example, Kosher slaughter is extremely cruel...and I don't buy it. When I do buy meat, I try my level best to buy from places that have a reputation for following proper laws which are SUPPOSED to ensure the animals are treated properly. There are no guarantees.



Yeah VM...and making fun of California really lends a lot of credibility to your comment. No, I've never been to a slaughterhouse but my g/f goes regularly as part of her job as she is qualified to inspect them. I've seen a lot of video and read a lot of QA reports. The fact is that if proper procedures for meat processing are followed, it should be a very quiet, organized facility. If cattle are distressed, they are supposed to be immediately taken out of the chute before they go to the "knock box" and removed until they are calmed down. Same for swine. Clearly not everyone does what they are supposed to by law, and I don't have to purchase that meat.

Sorry, but an individual holding a shotgun to a deer at 50 yards is not exactly what I'd call "facing one's meal." YMMV

**sits back and waits patiently for what will surely be an onslaught of insults and personal attacks**

I think his point was, people who hunt, who fish....those that butcher their own meat, actually know and get to see exactly what goes into that meat on the dinner table.

I like a good steak, too, but frankly, I eat way less meat than I used to, maybe only 3 times a week or so, unless I am eating fast food on the run. I eat less because I know exactly how that meat got on my plate, and I'd prefer to minimize my consumption because of that.

As far as the Kosher and Halal meat.....if those two religions weren't so powerful, we would have outlawed both. If a stun bolt to the head isn't bad enough, slitting an animal's throat and letting it bleed out.....damn, that is cruelty just for the sake of cruelty. It shouldn't be legal to do that. It isn't legal to torture any other animal.

[Iron Chef]

I think his point was, people who hunt, who fish....those that butcher their own meat, actually know and get to see exactly what goes into that meat on the dinner table.

I like a good steak, too, but frankly, I eat way less meat than I used to, maybe only 3 times a week or so, unless I am eating fast food on the run. I eat less because I know exactly how that meat got on my plate, and I'd prefer to minimize my consumption because of that.

As far as the Kosher and Halal meat.....if those two religions weren't so powerful, we would have outlawed both. If a stun bolt to the head isn't bad enough, slitting an animal's throat and letting it bleed out.....damn, that is cruelty just for the sake of cruelty. It shouldn't be legal to do that. It isn't legal to torture any other animal.

If that's the point he was trying to get across, I stand corrected. But I didn't interpret it that way.

I eat about 70% or so vegetarian...not because I don't like meat, but because of how it seems to make me feel afterwards. A big ol' greasy cheeseburger is one of life pleasures. If people want to have it for breakfast, lunch and dinner makes no difference to me.

Kosher/Halal is barbaric. Period. And it should be outlawed.

Do you honestly believe that people only hunt in this country because they WANT to?? :skep: Have you ever spent any time in small, rural, not-wealthy communities? It's where I grew up... and where I currently live.

It is absolutely a question of survival for a huge number of people. Would they "die" if they didn't hunt deer? No, probably not, but it certainly plays a large role in feeding many families that I know. I can't count how many people in the area that I grew up in and very near to where I currently reside grow/hunt/raise a huge majority (if not all) of their food. When deer season comes around, it is not a matter of hanging heads on the wall. It is a matter of filling the freezers with enough meat to get through until next season.

You sure do seem to take for granted being able to drive up and walk into a store and pay $4.00+ for a pound of ground beef or some of those nicely packaged chicken breasts.

And you sure do make a lot of assumptions yourself.

Because you know people that hunt for their survival and I don’t, I’m suddenly the snobbish elite and am supposed to feel guilty about buying pre-packaged meat? Please. :rofl:

I will repeat...for your benefit...what I DID say, and that was if it was necessary for survival, you do what you must. I just don’t believe that simply because you know some people who do it, that it is as widespread as you seem to believe.

And since you have no more hard data to prove your point than I do mine, we’ll agree to disagree.

[jda67gta]

And since you have no more hard data to prove your point than I do mine, we’ll agree to disagree.

“Sportsmen and women spent $4.1 billion on hunting and fishing in Texas in 2011, which is nearly twice the receipts for cotton, the state’s second largest agricultural commodity that year ($4.1 billion vs. $2.3 billion).”

For example, 2.7 million people (resident and non-resident) hunted or fished in Texas in 2011, more than the population of Houston, the state’s largest city (2.7 million vs 2.1 million). In addition, there are more sportsmen and women in Texas than the 2011 home attendance for the Dallas Cowboys, the Dallas Mavericks, the Houston Texans, and the Houston Rockets combined (2.7 million vs 2.4 million). Perhaps most importantly, hunters and anglers supported more jobs in Texas than Dell, the University of Texas — Austin, and the MD Anderson Cancer Center, the state’s top three employers (65,993 vs. 59,000 jobs combined).

Nationwide, the impact is even more impressive. There are more than 37 million hunters and anglers age 16 and up in this country — about the same as the population of the entire state of California. These sportsmen and women spent $90 billion on hunting and fishing in the United States in 2011, which is comparable to the combined global sales of Apple’s iPad® and iPhone® that year.

In difficult economic times, it is important to note that both participation and spending by people who hunt and fish went up in 2011.

Beyond the impact to businesses and local economies, sportsmen and women are the leaders in conserving fish and wildlife and their habitats.

When you combine license and stamp fees, motorboat fuels, excise taxes on hunting and fishing equipment and membership contributions to conservation organizations, hunters and anglers directed $3 billion towards on-the-ground conservation and restoration efforts in 2011 — that is over $95 every second. This does not include their own habitat acquisition and restoration work for lands owned or leased for the purpose of hunting and fishing, which would add another $11 billion to the mix.

Data from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s 2011 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting and Wildlife Associated Recreation.

[Iron Chef]

Data from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s 2011 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting and Wildlife Associated Recreation.

Texas Agriculture, Forestry and Fishing makes up about one percent of the state’s economy (as of 2006...I doubt it’s changed much since). Do you know what Texas Gross State Product was last year? $1.6 TRILLION. Is $4 billion a lot of money? Yeah. But I seriously doubt that the state would fold without this industry. Of course, it’s not going to happen, nor am I suggesting it should. But it is amusing the way the US Fish and Wildlife used the SMALLEST sector of the economy in an effort to make their statistics look good.

Anyway, the data that I was referring to was about people who rely on hunting and fishing for survival, not pleasure or sport. I don’t think the US Fish and Wildlife keeps statistics about that and if they did, I wouldn’t count on the accuracy.

[VatorMan]

The point I am trying to make, is that a deer has no more right to life than a cow. No less either. Both have about the same mental capacity.

My reference to eliteism stands tho. I work with a huge group of them. Scientists, researchers, highly educated people. The amount of Priuses and other electric cars on site is enormous. They feel good plugging their cars in at night, as long as they don't have to live by the power plant producing the power.

Urban America has isolated itself from the dirty work that needs to be done in order to provide the life "they deserve."

Back to Big game hunting. I firmly believe that there are species that exist because the amount of money big game hunters bring in. Money is the motivator to keep poachers and tribes from wiping out the species. The dentist is still a douchebag for the WAY he bagged his Lion.

[jda67gta]

Anyway, the data that I was referring to was about people who rely on hunting and fishing for survival, not pleasure or sport. I don’t think the US Fish and Wildlife keeps statistics about that and if they did, I wouldn’t count on the accuracy.

I suppose it’s a matter of perspective. I’ve hunted my entire life, from gigging frogs in Marine Creek Lake before they even built Loop 820W, doves and quail on 2,000 acres in Decatur, deer and hogs on too many leases to count all over Texas, to plains game in Africa, just south of the Limpopo river.

I’ve eaten most of all that I killed, but in many cases donated the meat to organizations like Hunters for the Hungry. Being outdoors, setting up and breaking down camps, trying to outsmart some of nature’s most elusive, getting up early to watch the world come alive, are just a few of the experiences that hunting has provided.

There’s a satisfaction of knowing that one can provide for a family, outside of going to the store and getting it off the shelf.




BTW, the dentist, his “professional hunters”, his guides, etc. are all douchebags. The guy has a history of poaching, and even if they did not intend to bait the lion off the reserve (which I sincerely doubt), when they realized it was a tracked animal, they had an ethical responsibility to report it to the authorities, not run and hide like cowards. Assholes like him and his kind give hunting a bad name.

[Iron Chef]

BTW, the dentist, his “professional hunters”, his guides, etc. are all douchebags. The guy has a history of poaching, and even if they did not intend to bait the lion off the reserve (which I sincerely doubt), when they realized it was a tracked animal, they had an ethical responsibility to report it to the authorities, not run and hide like cowards. Assholes like him and his kind give hunting a bad name.

Well...I think everyone in this thread is pretty much in agreement over that. :yesnod:

Many of those experiences you talk about can be had without the hunting aspect. However, I understand that it is the way many folks have grown up. It’s part of your life experience. If it’s what you treasure then that’s how it should be. I’ve never come unglued or even commented on folks who talk about their hunting adventures. Only that it isn’t for me.

Likewise, I don't think it's fair to label someone as "elitist" or "clueless" simply because he places a high value on the lives of things other than humans. Usually, people act that way for reasons that are far less ideological (like, they're just plain douchebags).

:cert:

[Superstreet]

Jimmy Kimmel on the Killing of Cecil the Lion - YouTube

[C5SilverBullet]

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11826060_939292229441037_8855873948911337349_n.png?oh=f3e021e37123b232220430073176c2c6&oe=5654D053

[RedLS1GTO]

Because you know people that hunt for their survival and I don’t, I’m suddenly the snobbish elite and am supposed to feel guilty about buying pre-packaged meat? Please. :rofl:

I will repeat...for your benefit...what I DID say, and that was if it was necessary for survival, you do what you must. I just don’t believe that simply because you know some people who do it, that it is as widespread as you seem to believe.

:rolleyes:

My comment was to the very specific part that I quoted.

I never said that you were the "snobbish elite". I never said you should "feel guilty." I never said anything even remotely close to that. I said very simply that you seem to take walking into the store for granted. Stop trying to twist things so you can claim some sort of insult where there was none.

The post you made was pretty simple.

Unless it’s a question of survival (and in the 21st century, there are few if any circumstances where it is), I don’t think it has a place in society.

"IF ANY" As in you think there is a possibility that there are NONE. What exactly am I getting wrong with that interpretation? There are a whole lot of people that rely on hunting as a major source of food. Your post pretty clearly indicates that you are not familiar with that lifestyle... a lifestyle that is pretty common in a large part of the country. Is it a majority? No, not even close... but I guarantee that it's a hell of a lot more common than you seem to believe.

And since you have no more hard data to prove your point than I do mine, we’ll agree to disagree.


Hard data? Seriously? What data exactly do you want? Do you want me to go collect names for you? Maybe put it in a chart of some sort?

If you don't want to take the word of someone who has lived their entire life as a first hand witness to a lifestyle that you claim doesn't even exist, there's not much else left to say. I certainly don't care enough to try to convince you.

Oh well.

[Aerovette]

I feel about this guy the same way I feel about breeders or dog owners that drown less than perfect puppies.

[99 pewtercoupe]

**sits back and waits patiently for what will surely be an onslaught of insults and personal attacks**

Sorry if it disappoints but I will leave this at we agree to disagree on this particular issue. I'm sure if we sat down over drinks we would find that we agree on far more points than we disagree about. :seasix:

[PortDawg]

**sits back and waits patiently for what will surely be an onslaught of insults and personal attacks**

When you were gone...You missed it and you know it... :seasix:


:leaving:

[Iron Chef]

Hard data? Seriously? What data exactly do you want? Do you want me to go collect names for you? Maybe put it in a chart of some sort?

If you don't want to take the word of someone who has lived their entire life as a first hand witness to a lifestyle that you claim doesn't even exist, there's not much else left to say. I certainly don't care enough to try to convince you.

Of course you don't care. Which is why you wrote two lengthy posts arguing your point. :rofl:

And yeah...seriously. I'm not gonna "take your word for it." I need a bit more than your say-so for me to accept your point as being valid. I don't need names or charts because the honest truth is that I don't give a shit if what you say is accurate or not. If you think your observations are valid, that should be good enough for you and leave it at that. No one's stomping on anyone's rights here. It's an opinion...nothing more.

AND...you already said you didn't care, so it really doesn't matter, RIGHT??? :kimblair:

When you were gone...You missed it and you know it... :seasix:

Actually...I really didn't. But you can tell yourself that if you like. :D :cert:

[RedLS1GTO]

Of course you don't care. Which is why you wrote two lengthy posts arguing your point.

Sorry but no, I'm not gonna "take your word for it." Why? Because I didn't grow up in a rural area. I grew up in a city where you learn to verify things and do your homework and due diligence or you run the risk of getting screwed a dozen different ways. This is of course nothing of that magnitude, but I need a bit more than someone's say-so for me to accept it as being valid.

Don't mistake my being bored and clicking around the forum with actually caring about your opinion. You don't want to take my word for it? So be it. When it comes to something that I have seen my entire life, someone on the internet saying I'm wrong doesn't even begin to register on the give-a-damn meter. My apologies for not presenting that thought in the form of an independently verified chart with supporting data.

Like I said, oh well. :shrug:

On a larger scale, I'm really glad I don't go through life being so jaded that I need a published research study to "validate" everything I hear, especially inconsequential things like this that are simply part of a discussion. If nothing else, your comment really makes me appreciate growing up where and how I did.

As a side note, if you want some "data", take a trip through rural America sometime. Should you ever find yourself in Bowling Green again, drive about 30 minutes north to Cave City, Glasgow, or any of those other small towns. It might be a nice change of scenery. :seasix:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

On a larger scale, I'm really glad I don't go through life being so jaded that I need a published research study to "validate" everything I hear, especially inconsequential things like this that are simply part of a discussion.
Wherever TxAg is right now, I bet his ears are twitching like a Mofo. :lol:

[Aerovette]

Red, what people have to hunt for survival?

I would guess there are some possibly on Alaska, but in the rest of the continental US, there is no road that doesn't eventually lead to a store. I believe people that hunt for food still do it by choice. Do they have no vehicle? No friends with vehicles? No income? I mean this is not the Wild West so in my mind, it is absolutely a choice to hunt as your main source of food...or fish for that matter.

[Iron Chef]

If nothing else, your comment really makes me appreciate growing up where and how I did.

Me too :rofl:

As a side note, if you want some "data", take a trip through rural America sometime. Should you ever find yourself in Bowling Green again, drive about 30 minutes north to Cave City, Glasgow, or any of those other small towns. It might be a nice change of scenery. :seasix:

Thanks, but I've got all the RFD I can handle right here at home. :kimblair:

[RedLS1GTO]

Red, what people have to hunt for survival?

I would guess there are some possibly on Alaska, but in the rest of the continental US, there is no road that doesn't eventually lead to a store. I believe people that hunt for food still do it by choice. Do they have no vehicle? No friends with vehicles? No income? I mean this is not the Wild West so in my mind, it is absolutely a choice to hunt as your main source of food...or fish for that matter.

Define "have to" and "for survival". From my earlier post:

Would they "die" if they didn't hunt deer? No, probably not, but it certainly plays a large role in feeding many families that I know. I can't count how many people in the area that I grew up in and very near to where I currently reside grow/hunt/raise a huge majority (if not all) of their food. When deer season comes around, it is not a matter of hanging heads on the wall. It is a matter of filling the freezers with enough meat to get through until next season.

No, it's not the wild west or Alaska. Is it physically possible for them to get to a store? Certainly. Take a look at Southeastern Ohio, large parts of Kentucky, West Virginia, etc... Areas where the median household income is less than some folks here make in a month. I am talking about low-income, rural America. It's a larger part of the population than many seem to think. I'd venture to say people don't realize it most likely because they don't scream about how unfair life is and how much everybody else owes them. Almost everybody has a garden, not because it is a hobby but because it is food. Chickens running around in yards is a common sight, not because somebody wanted a pet, but because it is a source of food. These people in large number hunt as well. In this area specifically, deer is of course the majority of that.

Sure, they could "survive" without hunting, but they sure as hell wouldn't be able to feed their families as well. $4.00/lb for some ground beef isn't really an option for a large number of people on a regular basis.