NASCAR races to ban the Stars and Bars

[BADRACR1]

NASCAR says any "NASCAR controlled area" will have the flags banned.
As a fan since 1992 I have felt less and less enthusiastic each of the last ten years or so about the coming season. NASCAR seem to keep changing things that to me make the sport and watching the races less and less enjoyable.
This is a sport founded in the South. As an individual proud of my Southern heritage this may be straw that broke the camel's back for me. They are turning their back on their roots, and as a result I may turn my back on them. I know they won't give a crap but they won't get any more of my money or viewer participation.:BADRACR1:

NASCAR Head Wants Confederate Flag Gone | Valley News (http://www.vnews.com/sports/17515357-95/nascar-head-wants-confederate-flag-gone)

Oh, and bad news for Junior Nation: according to the article Jr back's NASCARS's decision.

[Sea Six]

Buck em

[vetteman9368]

They really don't know their demographic do they?

[Sea Six]

This is gonna go over about as well as the Dixie Chick's GWB comment.

[Grey Ghost]

After 40 yrs. of being a fan and supporter they can kiss my ass. Brian France Jr. has tried his best to kill the sport. This was the last straw. I've never purchased or carried a CSA flag. But this shit has gone too far. My reenacting group has decided to never participate in a national military park event again for the same reason. We will do the ones on private property only.

[LATB]

....

[SQUIRMIN VERMIN 84]

For years, I never missed a race. The last few years, NASCAR has been getting more PC every year.
Time and again, top management was resembling GOP cave-in leadership and more influenced by sponsor's
gratification instead of the driver's and the fan's gratification (including Southern Pride in Southern Culture), who made it great to begin with.
In this direction, Nascar's expected demise is well-earned.

[SQUIRMIN VERMIN 84]

As a long-time fan of Dale Sr, I'm disappointed in Jr's response but not surprised... He's NOT like his father's generation.

[ApexOversteer]

Haven't watched a second of it since Daytona...

[Sea Six]

I can't WAIT to see this blow up in their faces.


:hurray:



:waiting:

[Wathen1955]

I haven't followed NASCAR in years, but didn't they have an issue with attendance the last 8 years or so? If it's still like that, then this will only make it worse.

[Sea Six]

I've never purchased or carried a CSA flag


Me either. But this is just over the top batshit crazy.


Just fukkin crazy.

[Sea Six]

I'm predicting public nascar memorabilia burning/bulldozer crushing events in the near future.

:yesnod:

[BADRACR1]

As a long-time fan of Dale Sr, I'm disappointed in Jr's response but not surprised... He's NOT like his father's generation.

More about the money aspect.

[BADRACR1]

I haven't followed NASCAR in years, but didn't they have an issue with attendance the last 8 years or so? If it's still like that, then this will only make it worse.

I agree.

[DukeAllen]

NASCAR bans the very people that made it what it is? Sounds like time to ban NASCAR.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

NASCAR races to ban the Stars and Bars

:banana1::banana1::banana1:
About ****ing time
:party::party::party:

[Sea Six]

:banana1::banana1::banana1:
About ****ing time
:party::party::party:

Do you hafta FUKK up every thread?

:bslap:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Do you hafta FUKK up every thread?

:bslap:

Just doing my part. (http://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/1373986-post7.html)

[Sea Six]

It was a rhetorical question.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj280/Dilemma_1962/fagg_zpsuqbcbtvt.gif~original

[BADRACR1]

Do you hafta FUKK up every thread?

:bslap:

Yes. When one has nothing better to do they look forward to it.

[Olustee bus]

I guess they are betting on gaining african american fans to offset the loss of the redneck fan base. Don't see it happening.

[island14]

At a NASCAR Winston Series Race a few years back..

http://freeshopmanual.com/uploads/photos/Rebel-2.jpg

[island14]

I guess they are betting on gaining african american fans to offset the loss of the redneck fan base. Don't see it happening.

I don't think that is their point, and think they are just trying to distance themselves from the redneck sport image as they want to gain wider demographics.

But most likely will not matter, and may just loose a few on the way.

[boracayjohnny]

I support CSA flag removal:

http://i.imgur.com/4kKPLT3.png

[Fasglas]

They really don't know their demographic do they?


Oh, I think they do...

http://www.causeplanet.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/cash1.jpg

[Jeff '79]

Oh, I think they do...

http://www.causeplanet.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/cash1.jpg

Anything to please the almighty corporations that fund their businesses..

Yep, the almighty dollar wins again.

[LATB]

I guess fans with Stars & Bars tattoos are no longer welcome at nascrap events now. :island14:

[island14]

I guess fans with Stars & Bars tattoos are no longer welcome at nascrap events now. :island14:



Just pull your hat down and maybe they wont notice it on yer forehead.. :lol:

[Jeff '79]

Just pull your hat down and maybe they wont notice it on yer forehead.. :lol:

Excuse me....
He's from the birthplace of John Wilkes Booth, Baltimore/ BelAir, so he's not a Confederate Southerner. :slap:

[island14]

That was just advice to all, I wasn't singling him out.. :Jeff '79:

[DAB]

yep, time to hop on the bandwagon and scrub the last of the 'rough edges' off.

appeal to yuppies, diss those who let you survive and flourish. take that corporate money and TV money. don't show the empty stands, just the on track action.

and then schedule your events at different times so they are hard to find on TV. and make sure you have some lovely rain delays. :blabla::faint:

[RedLS1GTO]

Oh, and bad news for Junior Nation: according to the article Jr back's NASCARS's decision.

NASCAR is run a bunch of idiots... we know that, but what are the drivers supposed to say if asked? I say if asked because I highly doubt he made some statement on his own. These guys aren't politicians, they're race car drivers. You know damn well that anybody who said anything other than "I agree" would be plastered all over the place as a racist bigot. I am not speaking only within NASCAR circles. If someone of the level of Jr spoke out against it, that shit would be on every channel. Then come the dominoes of sponsors having to backpedal, etc. It is an absolute no-win for these guys.

I have no f**king clue how some nutjob shooting people turned into this, but they (don't really even know who "they" is) put out the narrative and used it to perfection.

[LATB]

Excuse me....
He's from the birthplace of John Wilkes Booth, Baltimore/ BelAir, so he's not a Confederate Southerner. :slap:

Do you understand the ignorance in this post?

[Sea Six]

Do you understand the ignorance in this post?

He doesn't understand anything but hatred of the fact that you are back and there's nothing he can do about it.

[Bill]

This is gonna go over about as well as the Dixie Chick's GWB comment.

*Dixie Chicks'




I agreed with them, but then I'm not a huge country music fan, even though I'm a Texas redneck.

[Bill]

Anything to please the almighty corporations that fund their businesses..

Yep, the almighty dollar wins again.

The point of this is, the NASCAR demographic isn't going to like this banning of the Confederate flag at NASCAR events. I don't think this decision is going to maintain or increase profits for NASCAR. They just made a losing business decision, IMHO.

[Sea Six]

*Dixie Chicks'




:seasix:



I agreed with them, but then I'm not a huge country music fan, even though I'm a Texas redneck.

[Kerrmudgeon]

I watch for the race, not flags. :bilmem:

Stock car racing isn't and has never been limited to the southern USA. :toetap:

We had bootleggers running from the law too ya know. :canada:

[vetteman9368]

I watch for the race, not flags. :bilmem:

Stock car racing isn't and has never been limited to the southern USA. :toetap:

We had bootleggers running from the law too ya know. :canada:

Yea that outlaw maple syrup industry was wild back in its heyday

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Yea that outlaw maple syrup industry was wild back in its heyday

Pffft. We smuggled Lutefisk. Stunk up the entire car.

[Iron Chef]

Haven't watched a second of it since Cale Yarborough...

fixt

[69camfrk]

Does anyone really watch NASCRAP anyway? It ceased to be fun to watch 25 years ago. BTW, if anyone else calls the battle flag the "stars and bars" one more time, my freakin' head is going to explode. The "Stars and Bars" was the first national flag of the Confederacy. The GA state flag is the "Stars and Bars" minus the state seal in the middle.

[Oh-yaa]

They really don't know their demographic do they?

Their demographic is the big money sponsors and plain vanilla everything.

[Jeff '79]

Does anyone really watch NASCRAP anyway? It ceased to be fun to watch 25 years ago. BTW, if anyone else calls the battle flag the "stars and bars" one more time, my freakin' head is going to explode. The "Stars and Bars" was the first national flag of the Confederacy. The GA state flag is the "Stars and Bars" minus the state seal in the middle.

I would watch it if I got FS1.
I do watch it on FOX or if I do get it.
The morons went so far as to not televise it on the lower tier cable and satellite stations this year, further alienating fans that can't go to the races.
I refuse to pay for a higher tier just because I want to watch NASCAR.
I love the Sonoma race, but I don't get FS1, so I won't be watching today.
Oh well......

[DukeAllen]

Excuse me....
He's from the birthplace of John Wilkes Booth, Baltimore/ BelAir, so he's not a Confederate Southerner. :slap:

:kick: You really don't know why MD stayed in the yankee union, do you?

[Jeff '79]

:kick: You really don't know why MD stayed in the yankee union, do you?

That's not the point.
Sarcasm is so lost on you.
C'mon Duke..... :shots:

[LATB]

:kick: You really don't know why MD stayed in the yankee union, do you?

He also doesn't get that Booth was a confederate sympathizer. :island14:

[RedLS1GTO]

The point of this is, the NASCAR demographic isn't going to like this banning of the Confederate flag at NASCAR events. I don't think this decision is going to maintain or increase profits for NASCAR. They just made a losing business decision, IMHO.

Is anybody NOT going to watch or go that would have otherwise? Are any sponsors NOT going to put in money that would have if they were staunch supporters of the flag? I think if any, that number is VERY small in terms of fans and zero in terms of companies.

On the other hand if they get blasted as a racist, bigoted organization they lose sponsors and dollars immediately.

The correct decision IMO would have been to do NOTHING, however if forced to make a decision they made the only 1 they could.

[BADRACR1]

Is anybody NOT going to watch or go that would have otherwise? Are any sponsors NOT going to put in money that would have if they were staunch supporters of the flag? I think if any, that number is VERY small in terms of fans and zero in terms of companies.


Maybe the loss of supporters won't be great but I bet they gain even less by this crap.:shots::BADRACR1:

[SQUIRMIN VERMIN 84]

Maybe the loss of supporters won't be great but I bet they gain even less by this crap.:shots::BADRACR1:

There are probably not enough of us who feel this way(above), but on a personal level
I gain some satisfaction and peace of mind by writing these
assholes off and moving them to my growing shitlist....
:BADRACR1:

[RedLS1GTO]

There are probably not enough of us who feel this way(above), but on a personal level
I gain some satisfaction and peace of mind by writing these
assholes off and moving them to my growing shitlist....
:BADRACR1:

Out of curiosity, how much money did you give NASCAR last year? How many officially licensed products did you buy? How many races did you attend?

[Grey Ghost]

Maybe the loss of supporters won't be great but I bet they gain even less by this crap.:shots::BADRACR1:

I was thinking of going to Daytona, this w/e. No way now! I also have a friend that goes to Bristol, he pledged to no longer attend. I can't wait to see Jr. at driver introduction races in the south.

I never bought or waved the flag in front of anyone. If it is on any shirt of mine it is because of a reenactment or park design. Y'all should hear the uproar from the reenacting people. Many have pledged to dump National Park events because of the removal.

[Gozar]

I find it amusing that a failed attempt to succeed is what people identify as their heritage.

I have asked several people what the flag means to them and not one came up with a coherent answer that had any semblence of heritage or thoughtful meaning.

On that note I am not for banning but I sure as hell won't "boycott" NASCAR because they chose to.

[GentleBen]

They really don't know their demographic do they?

Nor do they really care about that demographic. . . but when the sponsors see the crowds leaving they may change their minds. Hopefully it will be too late to save NASCAR.

[DAB]

i don't have strong feelings about that flag/banner (whatever version is kicking around) either way.

it's like a colorful Rorschach test - you see what you want to see.

if it means something to you because an ancestor fought in the Civil War, then it's a thing of pride. if it makes you angry because an ancestor was a slave, then it's something that should be put away forever.

if neither of the above apply, then perhaps you're a politician sensing which way the wind is blowing and hoping to get on the train before it's too late.

and if you are some large corporate interest, now too is the time to be on the right side of the discussion.

there is no one right answer, it all depends on where you are coming from.

that said, Free Speech is to protect the unloved, the minority, the out of favor point of view. so if you like that flag/banner, then by all means show it off - and be ready to explain to the curious what it means to you. the powerful majority should not have the power to ban it from all display because they don't like it anymore.

[Gozar]

i don't have strong feelings about that flag/banner (whatever version is kicking around) either way.

it's like a colorful Rorschach test - you see what you want to see.

if it means something to you because an ancestor fought in the Civil War, then it's a thing of pride. if it makes you angry because an ancestor was a slave, then it's something that should be put away forever.

if neither of the above apply, then perhaps you're a politician sensing which way the wind is blowing and hoping to get on the train before it's too late.

and if you are some large corporate interest, now too is the time to be on the right side of the discussion.

there is no one right answer, it all depends on where you are coming from.

I completely agree.


that said, Free Speech is to protect the unloved, the minority, the out of favor point of view. so if you like that flag/banner, then by all means show it off - and be ready to explain to the curious what it means to you. the powerful majority should not have the power to ban it from all display because they don't like it anymore.

There is nothing Free about Free Speech. While the constitution is there to protect our right to Free Speech it does not protect us from non-government related consequences that may result from it.

[Grey Ghost]

that said, Free Speech is to protect the unloved, the minority, the out of favor point of view.

I would be fine with any decision, if they would put it up for public vote. Politicians wanting a vote, corporations being all PC to get money, etc...is what's wrong with this country. Let the public make some decisions is all I ask. Let the MAJORITY have some rule instead of caving to the minority.

[SQUIRMIN VERMIN 84]

Out of curiosity, how much money did you give NASCAR last year? How many officially licensed products did you buy? How many races did you attend?

For your curiosity, A- nothing- I don't 'give'/send cash money to sports.
B- only one 4 years ago. C-I can't afford tickets to attend a crowd when I can
watch with better coverage at home.

Remember, the majority of fans don't /or can't attend, they are/were the ones
who watch at home every weekend and drive the big sponsors'
advertisement campaigns.

Like I said, my action won't break anyone- it's a personal satisfaction for me
to break away- therapeutical for my disappointment.

[RedLS1GTO]

For your curiosity, A- nothing- I don't 'give'/send cash money to sports.
B- only one 4 years ago. C-I can't afford tickets to attend a crowd when I can
watch with better coverage at home.

Remember, the majority of fans don't /or can't attend, they are/were the ones
who watch at home every weekend and drive the big sponsors'
advertisement campaigns.

Like I said, my action won't break anyone- it's a personal satisfaction for me
to break away- therapeutical for my disappointment.

You spelled out most of the point I was eventually working toward. Individuals who are pissed off enough to boycott because of this aren't where the money is for NASCAR. The ratings may take a slight dip for a week or 2 but within a month an overwhelming majority of those who were watching before will still be watching and those who weren't still won't be. The money comes from the sponsors... they aren't going anywhere. The money comes from the TV deals... they aren't going anywhere. Even if a slight ratings drop happened it would still be a gazillion dollar industry.

As I said, they should have said NOTHING, but IMO this won't hurt them at all.

My biggest concern with NASCAR is that they are doing exactly as was expected and screwing up road racing with the Tudor series.

[Grey Ghost]

IRL once ruled the US racing scene. NASCAR is headed in the same direction as far as fan base.

The large corporations still get a 3-5 hour commercial on national TV with their logo going around in a circle and being mentioned. It must be a better value vs. regular commercial spots.

[DAB]

IRL once ruled the US racing scene. NASCAR is headed in the same direction as far as fan base.

The large corporations still get a 3-5 hour commercial on national TV with their logo going around in a circle and being mentioned. It must be a better value vs. regular commercial spots.

i read an article a few months ago discussing track finances, the gist of which was that you (the viewer/fan) are more valuable sitting at home than buying a ticket and sitting in the stands. they discussed how TV money and radio money is divided up with the various tracks, and all things considered, the track would rather you stay home. don't have to build you a seat, or feed you, or hire security, or build a restroom. it has turned into a large sound stage.

edit - i think this is what i read:

3 Ways to Make Tons of Money Owning a NASCAR Track (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/09/01/3-ways-to-make-tons-of-money-owning-a-nascar-track.aspx)

[Grey Ghost]

i read an article a few months ago discussing track finances, the gist of which was that you (the viewer/fan) are more valuable sitting at home than buying a ticket and sitting in the stands. they discussed how TV money and radio money is divided up with the various tracks, and all things considered, the track would rather you stay home. don't have to build you a seat, or feed you, or hire security, or build a restroom. it has turned into a large sound stage.

edit - i think this is what i read:

3 Ways to Make Tons of Money Owning a NASCAR Track (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/09/01/3-ways-to-make-tons-of-money-owning-a-nascar-track.aspx)

Interesting. They are completing a huge remodel of Daytona. I think it is because they couldn't sell the seats. So now they are creating large open spaces vs. individual seats.

Dad started taking us on our family vacation to Daytona Beach, around 1970. He loved racing and the Firecracker 400 happened at the same time. We would stand outside the small ticket office in the sweltering FL. heat to buy a ticket. The office had a couple of window air conditioners and it was such a relief just to get inside with the a/c. You would bump into drivers all over town. Sitting next to you at breakfast, riding hotel elevators, and even parking their rigs in the hotel parking lot.

The last few times that I have been (6yrs ago and prior). It probably cost me $1500 or more. The hotels jack up the room prices to $300-$400 a night, parking, etc...I probably could have gotten off cheaper, but I was willing to pay the extra to stay close to the track and flying into DAB vs. MCO. Seems a ticket in the Winston Cup section was around $180-$200.

Daytona and the 400 race are special to me for those early family memories. Atl. and 'dega are closer to me. But just not the same type of experience. That even goes for the 500 race.

I don't even remember seeing very many Confed. flags. The infield will be interesting this w/e. If they show it on the TV coverage...