9 Killed in SC Church

[VITE1]

Nine killed in shooting at South Carolina church, gunman still at large | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/18/police-respond-to-shooting-at-sc-church/)

:sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel:

Nine killed in shooting at South Carolina church, gunman still at large
Published June 18, 2015FoxNews.com
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Charleston640.jpg
June 17, 2015: Police and ambulances responded to the scene of a shooting in Charleston, S.C. (Photo courtesy WCSC)
Nine people were killed late Wednesday at a historic African-American church in Charleston, S.C. after a white gunman walked in during a prayer meeting and began shooting in what authorities described as a hate crime.

Charleston Police Chief Greg Mullen told a press conference early Thursday that the gunman, described as being clean-shaven and approximately 21 years old with sandy blonde hair and a slender build, was still at large and "extremely dangerous."

"This is a tragedy that no community should have to experience," Mullen said. "It is senseless and unfathomable in today's society that someone would walk into a church during a prayer meeting and take their lives."

"The only reason that someone could walk into a church and shoot people praying is out of hate," said Charleston Mayor Joseph P. Riley. "It is the most dastardly act that one could possibly imagine, and we will bring that person to justice ... This is one hateful person."

Mullen said the scene was chaotic when police arrived, and the officers thought they had the suspect tracked with a police dog, but he got away. He also announced that a reward for information leading to the shooter's capture would be offered Thursday and that the FBI would aid the investigation.

Authorities said the crime scene investigation had been complicated by a bomb threat that had been called in, forcing police to move members of the media back and close off a large section of the street where the shooting took place.

Among the dead was the church's pastor, state Sen. Clementa Pinckney, 41, who had been a pastor since he was 18. Pinckney was the youngest African-American elected to the South Carolina legislature when he won office in 1996 at age 23 and had been a state senator since 2000.

Soon after Wednesday night's shooting, a group of pastors huddled together praying in a circle across the street. Community organizer Christopher Cason told the Associated Press he felt certain the shootings were racially motivated.

"I am very tired of people telling me that I don't have the right to be angry," Cason said. "I am very angry right now."

Authorities said the shooting took place at approximately 9 p.m. local time. Police would not immediately confirm the identities of the victims. Mullen said there were survivors, but did not say how many, or how many were inside the church at the time of the shooting.

Dot Scott, the president of the Charleston NAACP, told the Post and Courier newspaper that she had spoken with a female survivor who said the gunman walked into the church and briefly sat down before standing up and opening fire. Scott said the gunman told the woman he was letting her live so she could tell others what had happened.

"There is no greater coward than a criminal who enters a house of God and slaughters innocent people engaged in the study of scripture," NAACP President and CEO Cornell Brooks said in a statement Thursday. "Today I mourn as an AME minister, as a student and teacher of scripture, as well as a member of the NAACP."

Police described the suspect as wearing a gray sweatshirt with blue jeans and Timberland boots. Approximately two hours after the shooting, a man matching the suspect's description was briefly detained near the shooting scene, but was later let go by police. The man, identified as 21-year-old David Corrie, told the Post and Courier he was walking out of a Shell gas station's convenience store when police forced him to get down on the ground and handcuffed him.

The campaign of GOP presidential hopeful Jeb Bush sent out an email saying that due to the shooting, the candidate had canceled an event planned in the city Thursday. South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley issued a statement calling the shooting a "senseless tragedy."

"While we do not yet know all of the details, we do know that we'll never understand what motivated anyone to enter one of our places of worship and take the life of another," Haley said. "Please join us in lifting up the victims and their families with our love and prayers."

Sen. Tim Scott, R-S.C. posted a series of Twitter message about the tragedy. "My heart is breaking for Charleston and South Carolina tonight," one of them read.

[Dave]

damn :sadangel:

[Fasglas]

:sadangel:
Heard about that last night. As of 0500, this A.M., killer still on the loose...
:sadangel:

[VatorMan]

I want to kill the SOB myself. So tired of this kind of crap.

Hell, I want to punch his Mom and Dad for raising such an abomination.

[NCC-1701]

:sadangel::sadangel: Prayers for the victims...:sadangel::sadangel:

[69camfrk]

It makes you wonder how society has sunk so low as to have these kind of monsters roaming the streets. Prayers for the victims and their families. I hope this guy is caught in short order and brought to swift justice. He doesn't deserve one more breath of air.

[onedef92]

So sad. There's so much more to life than color. :sadangel:

[Bill]

Really sad. I'm torn, 50%-50%, between Muslim extremist and just plain old garden variety mentally ill, evil dude like the Colorado shooter.

[DAB]

There is evil in the world.

Be ready to combat it at all turns.

[Bill]

Notice once again, that the guy didn't go shoot up a hunting club, or a police station....he went to shoot up a place where he figured everyone would be unarmed.


Sik fuk.....I wouldn't mind putting a few rounds into him, free of charge....to save the taxpayers money.

[sanchez]

This guy is a world class piece of shit. How broken do you have to be to do this?

[mrvette]

Notice once again, that the guy didn't go shoot up a hunting club, or a police station....he went to shoot up a place where he figured everyone would be unarmed.


Sik fuk.....I wouldn't mind putting a few rounds into him, free of charge....to save the taxpayers money.

The lowest of the low.......:sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::sadangel::issues:

[boracayjohnny]

Incredible sadness.

[VatorMan]

The more I think about it the madder I get. How gutless and perverted do you have to be to shoot innocent people worshiping at a church ? I've never shot a person-but I would have no problem putting this thing out of existence.

[Aerovette]

It makes you wonder how society has sunk so low as to have these kind of monsters roaming the streets. Prayers for the victims and their families. I hope this guy is caught in short order and brought to swift justice. He doesn't deserve one more breath of air.


When we decided the mentally ill should not be locked away and given shock therapy and lobotomies, we swung the pendulum too far the other way and decided we can just toss them a prescription and let them mix with the rest of us. You know...so we don't hurt their feelings.

[Grey Ghost]

:sadangel:

[Blademaker]

End this POS.

Slowly.

[Rob]

So sad. There's so much more to life than color. :sadangel:

What's worse is that people are not born like this, it is a learned behavior.

That is something I have always struggled on; why some people teach hate.

:sadangel:

[mrvette]

What's worse is that people are not born like this, it is a learned behavior.

That is something I have always struggled on; why some people teach hate.

:sadangel:

That's the kraziness who in hell has the time/energy for that shit.....IQ of 60....

[...Whitepower...]

Dylann Storm Roof Identified As Charleston Shooting Suspect: Report (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/18/dylann-storm-roof-charleston-church-shooting-suspect_n_7612232.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063)

[mrvette]

D. Storm Roof????

odd ball name if ever was one.....Kid probably had the living shit teased/kicked outta him all his life, his folks really set him up......


:issues:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

That is something I have always struggled on; why some people teach hate.
More to the point, why don't people discourage hate? You can log into any number of websites and find hate all by yourself. But if there isn't someone there to steer Jr. in the right direction and tell him what he's seeing is rong, he's gonna adopt hate.

[island14]

"I am very tired of people telling me that I don't have the right to be angry," Cason said. "I am very angry right now."

:iagree:


So sad. There's so much more to life than color. :sadangel:

:iagree:


What's worse is that people are not born like this, it is a learned behavior.

That is something I have always struggled on; why some people teach hate.

:sadangel:


:iagree:


I want to kill the SOB myself. So tired of this kind of crap.

Hell, I want to punch his Mom and Dad for raising such an abomination.


:iagree:


I am very angry right now also..

I am angry at this piece of shit scum of the earth that would attack people in their church, but most of all I am angry at the hate that exist in the world..

Sadly this story will end up being about a white on black crime.

But to me it is a much larger picture.

The hate and killings of whites by blacks also, the hate of Muslims killing even other Muslims just because they are a different sect.

Blacks and Mexicans killing their own only because they grew up a few streets over and belong to a different gang.

The hate that Germany once had towards the Jewish people and still exist today in many parts of the world.. the hate of the Japanese against the Chinese and Filipinos during the last WW

We could go on and on.. and on... about hate.. and these examples were just the first ones to come to mind right now..

There is and has always been so much hate through time, and it seems it will never stop as there is always so much to go around.. :(

Like Dixie and VatorMan said above, I think hate is a learned process..

If you take kids from every country and race and put them all in once room, they would all happily play together and just have fun.

They only learn hate later in life from their own parents, and their friends that learned it from their parents.

:sadangel:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

They only learn hate later in life from their own parents
I respectfully disagree.

[...Whitepower...]

I respectfully disagree.


:waiting:

I do to btw.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

What's worse is that people are not born like this, it is a learned behavior.

Learned yes, but not necessarily taught. There is a distinction between the two.

[...Whitepower...]

Cnn is saying they caught this guy.

[Bill]

If the kid was going to be mad at someone, why not go shoot up the barber shop where he gets his hair cut? Maybe destroy the bowl?

[mrvette]

Cnn is saying they caught this guy.

They just said so on Herman Cain show....

:seasix:

[Sea Six]

I respectfully disagree.

:waiting:

I do to btw.

So where does it come from?

All this hatred?

[Stangkiller]

So where does it come from?

All this hatred?

I don't know, ask Red.

I'm seeing some info on this guy on the news, just wow. Somebody had to know he was going to snap, I really hope they are held accountable too.

[Iron Chef]

From the Charleston Post and Courier:

"The suspect is considered armed and dangerous," police said in a flyer released online and tweeted by the FBI. He is currently free on bond in connection with recent arrests on drug, trespassing charges, the Post and Courier reports. Police were seen at his mother's house, his uncle told Reuters, adding that he recognized the man as his nephew. "The more I look at him, the more I'm convinced, that's him," Carson Cowles, 56, told the news service in an interview. Cowles described Roof as "quiet and soft-spoken" and said his father recently gave the suspect a .45-caliber gun as a birthday gift, Reuters said.

Giving someone who's been arrested for drug and trespassing charges a gun for his birthday. Way to go dad. Clearly the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. :spdchk:

Hopefully he'll save the taxpayers a lot of money and do himself in before he's caught.

[stingraymyway]

Dude's an idiot. Drag him into the street and shoot him like a rabid dog.

[Bill]

From the Charleston Post and Courier:



Giving someone who's been arrested for drug and trespassing charges a gun for his birthday. Way to go dad. Clearly the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. :spdchk:

Hopefully he'll save the taxpayers a lot of money and do himself in before he's caught.

:iagree:

I don't always agree with IC, but when I do, it's with this post.

[VatorMan]

I'm seeing some info on this guy on the news, just wow. Somebody had to know he was going to snap, I really hope they are held accountable too.

:iagree: To an extent. That's a real slippery slope. Every one of us has said something that any LEO would arrest you for-if pre crime words were means to arrest you.

[8Up]

Local news says tehy caught him in Shelby NC, small city west of Charlotte, probably came right through Columbia to get from Chaston to there. Prayers for the 9 people killed holding a bible study in their own church..:sadangel:

[BigJoe]

Dumb and Dumber...
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3089118/thumbs/o-DYLAN-STORM-ROOF-570.jpg

[Burro (He/Haw)]

So where does it come from?
Looking for an answer to this Sea or are you trolling?

[Stangkiller]

:iagree: To an extent. That's a real slippery slope. Every one of us has said something that any LEO would arrest you for-if pre crime words were means to arrest you.

While they may not have been able to arrest on a precharge, they can do wellness check ups and all around make their presence known that they're watching him.

It probably wouldn't be a stretch to bet this punk was on similar antipsychotics that James Holmes (not our upstanding member) and Adam Lanza was on.

[8Up]

Dumb and Dumber...
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3089118/thumbs/o-DYLAN-STORM-ROOF-570.jpg

The other picture they are floating around of him shows him in an orange jumpsuit. He obviously had contact with the police at least once.

[Bill]

The other picture they are floating around of him shows him in an orange jumpsuit. He obviously had contact with the police at least once.

Arrested for drugs, and for trespassing.....take your pick.

[Sea Six]

Looking for an answer to this Sea or are you trolling?

I am specifically looking for your and Mark's answer.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

I am specifically looking for your and Mark's answer.

S'what I though. Trolling. :cert:

[...Whitepower...]

I am specifically looking for your and Mark's answer.

My wife's of Chinese decent.
I'm of Jamaican decent.
We have been together since 98.
My wife's mother only started making an effort to talk to me when she became a grandmother and wanted to see our kids. If we never had kids I doubt she ever would have made an effort.
Her parents didn't come to our wedding, they didn't visit after the kids were born, they have yet to spend a holiday with us, or come to one of our kids birthday parties.
When my wife and kids visit her mom to this day her father IGNORES the kids. They say good morning and he gets up and walks away.
I have never spent more than 5 minutes in the same room as her mom.
I have yet to meet her father.

The statement was made that hate comes from parents teaching their kids. Thomas and I disagreed with that statement

My wife is proof that that statement is incorrect.

[Bill]

Obama just blamed the gun in his address to the nation.

[Bill]

My wife's of Chinese decent.
I'm of Jamaican decent.
We have been together since 98.
My wife's mother only started making an effort to talk to me when she became a grandmother and wanted to see our kids. If we never had kids I doubt she ever would have made an effort.
Her parents didn't come to our wedding, they didn't visit after the kids were born, they have yet to spend a holiday with us, or come to one of our kids birthday parties.
When my wife and kids visit her mom to this day her father IGNORES the kids. They say good morning and he gets up and walks away.
I have never spent more than 5 minutes in the same room as her mom.
I have yet to meet her father.

The statement was made that hate comes from parents teaching their kids. Thomas and I disagreed with that statement

My wife is proof that that statement is incorrect.


Damn. That really sucks. One of my best friends is Chinese, married to a girl from Costa Rica. We all wondered if his parents would attend the wedding. They did, and eventually embraced their daughter-in-law. Good thing, because his little sister married an Iranian. No issues there, with either family.

[Stangkiller]

Never letting a tragedy go to waste, Obama again brings up the need for gun control. He couldn't leave politics out of it. What a f'kin disgrace.

[Fasglas]

CBS News: Gunman In Deadly Church Shooting Caught « CBS Atlanta (http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2015/06/18/gunman-kills-9-at-historically-black-church-during-bible-study/)


As expected:

Roof’s childhood friend, Joey Meek, alerted the FBI after recognizing him in a surveillance camera image that was widely circulated, said Meek’s mother, Kimberly Kozny. Roof had worn that sweatshirt over to their house many times as they played Xbox videogames in recent weeks, she added.

Roof also displayed a Confederate flag on his license plate, she said. State court records show only one pending felony drug case against him, and a past misdemeanor trespassing charge.

“I don’t know what was going through his head,” Kozny said. “He was a really sweet kid. He was quiet. He only had a few friends.”

[Grey Ghost]

He looks like a psycho. Mental illness is the real problem with these shootings.

[mrvette]

He looks like a psycho. Mental illness is the real problem with these shootings.

NO SHIT!!!!

[NCC-1701]

Things like this is why I always recommend carrying concealed because you never know where its going to happen and at least I want a fighting chance to save me and others.:seasix:

[NCC-1701]

NO SHIT!!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[NCC-1701]

This may sound Neanderthalic but I believe in institutionalizing severe aggressive mental patients they have no business in open society and we all know psyc medications seldom work and when they do the patients do not take them and then whack out and kill people or themselves. Those asylums of the early 1900s served a purpose. I feel for those people but the safety of society is more important than these people on the loose.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...

[island14]

Learned yes, but not necessarily taught. There is a distinction between the two.

Kinda what I meant, they learn by what they see..


Looking for an answer to this Sea or are you trolling?

I was about to ask the same question.. and curious why you and Mark thought that.

Kids do not always have to follow what they see as every day influences and may choose to make their own opinions later I agree.

But my thought is, I think hate can sometimes fuel more hate.

[Sea Six]

S'what I though. Trolling. :cert:

So you don't have an answer?


And no I'm not trolling.

[VITE1]

He looks like a psycho. Mental illness is the real problem with these shootings.

:iagree:

But the laws were changed to prevent people like this from being institutionalized. So we either have to change the mental health laws or accept this as the norm.

[Iron Chef]

Never letting a tragedy go to waste, Obama again brings up the need for gun control. He couldn't leave politics out of it. What a f'kin disgrace.

Politics and Obama aside, it wouldn't bother me a bit to see some sort of legislation that can somehow make it more difficult for psychos like this to get a gun in their hands.

NO...I don't have a solution.

NO...I'm not advocating gun control laws per se.

It's just a comment based on wishful thinking.

[Sea Six]

:iagree:

But the laws were changed to prevent people like this from being institutionalized. So we either have to change the mental health laws or accept this as the norm.

Or we can make some reasonable, common sense gun reform legislation happen.

[...Whitepower...]

Or we can make some reasonable, common sense gun reform legislation happen.

With you living in the south (I consider N FL the south) and having LEO experience what might you suggest as reasonable reform?

[onedef92]

What's worse is that people are not born like this, it is a learned behavior.

That is something I have always struggled on; why some people teach hate.

:sadangel:

And on the other end of the spectrum you have Rachel Dolezal, who was born white but yearned to be black. :confused5:

[Stangkiller]

Politics and Obama aside, it wouldn't bother me a bit to see some sort of legislation that can somehow make it more difficult for psychos like this to get a gun in their hands.

NO...I don't have a solution.

NO...I'm not advocating gun control laws per se.

It's just a comment based on wishful thinking.

Or we can make some reasonable, common sense gun reform legislation happen.

Because gun reform would have prevented that father from giving a handgun to his son? Because the war on drugs has been so successful we should try it on guns too? The real problem is the mentally ill people behind the guns, not the guns themselves.

Cars and smoking kill WAY more people every year, yet we aren't talking about reforming those, because it's not the cars fault or the cigarettes fault, it's the person driving or choosing to smoke. EVERY single one of these mass shootings has been at the hands of a KNOWN mentally ill person. It's time we address the problem for what it is, a mental health disaster.

[onedef92]

Things like this is why I always recommend carrying concealed because you never know where its going to happen and at least I want a fighting chance to save me and others.:seasix:

At our church, some of our members conceal carry. And our pastor's bodyguards do, too. This could happen at any church, though. Conventional widsom doesn't readily jibe when it comes to to protecting soft targets like places of worship.

[Grey Ghost]

Here's What the Mainstream Media WON'T Tell You About Mass Shootings - Allen B. West - AllenBWest.com (http://allenbwest.com/2015/06/heres-what-the-mainstream-media-wont-tell-you-about-mass-shootings/)

[mrvette]

Because gun reform would have prevented that father from giving a handgun to his son? Because the war on drugs has been so successful we should try it on guns too? The real problem is the mentally ill people behind the guns, not the guns themselves.

AND the huge change in the incarceration laws for the mentally ill, about 35? years ago.....

:issues:

AND too boot, I consider modern psych practices to be nothing but excuse making.....

[Sea Six]

With you living in the south (I consider N FL the south) and having LEO experience what might you suggest as reasonable reform?

For starters, I'd just make it illegal to shoot people. Stop those would-be murderers right in their tracks.


That oughtta fix the problem right away. :yesnod:


:coolest:

[99 pewtercoupe]

So the Charleston Newspaper had a gun shop ad right beside the story.
Not saying they shouldn't run gun ads but somebody should have thought for maybe half a second about the placement

Charleston: Paper places gun ad next to shooting report - Fortune (http://fortune.com/2015/06/18/charleston-newspaper-gun-ad/)

[VatorMan]

Well, it's about time to hold the NRA to the same standards we want Muslims. Where is the NRA demanding that whoever gave sold the gun to this POS ? Why aren't gun owners demanding to hold the ones involved accountable ?

I'm no liberal, but dammit- I get tired of the same old shit. Everyone wants the .Gov to stay out of your business until something happens and then everyone wants the .Gov to do something about it.

[DAB]

the amount of stupidity on talk radio is amazing today.

'how long to reload that kind of pistol?'

'uh..4-5 seconds'

:slap:

with a little practice, under a second

and it appears the young man was a prohibited person, not legally allowed to possess a firearm. even if they had done a transfer at an FFL, he'd just create a paperwork crime by lying on the form (under indictment for a felony and user of illegal drugs - two disqualifying factors).

[Sea Six]

So the Charleston Newspaper had a gun shop ad right beside the story.
Not saying they shouldn't run gun ads but somebody should have thought for maybe half a second about the placement

Charleston: Paper places gun ad next to shooting report - Fortune (http://fortune.com/2015/06/18/charleston-newspaper-gun-ad/)

Those ads are often generated automatically based on buzzwords in the articles.

[DAB]

Well, it's about time to hold the NRA to the same standards we want Muslims. Where is the NRA demanding that whoever gave sold the gun to this POS ? Why aren't gun owners demanding to hold the ones involved accountable ?

I'm no liberal, but dammit- I get tired of the same old shit. Everyone wants the .Gov to stay out of your business until something happens and then everyone wants the .Gov to do something about it.

if the father knew his son was under indictment for drug possession or use, then the daddy too should be held accountable for transferring a firearm to a prohibited person.

[Bill]

:iagree:

But the laws were changed to prevent people like this from being institutionalized. So we either have to change the mental health laws or accept this as the norm.

That was done under Reagan.

[Bill]

Or we can make some reasonable, common sense gun reform legislation happen.

:iagree:

Legalize CCW for everyone, except those on parole, probation, or adjudicated as mentally defective. The 2nd Amendment is our permit, the way I read it.

[Bill]

if the father knew his son was under indictment for drug possession or use, then the daddy too should be held accountable for transferring a firearm to a prohibited person.

I actually have very mixed feelings about that. The kid has the presumption of innocence, until he is found guilty. I really don't agree that we should be taking away people's rights unless they have been found guilty of a crime. It smacks too much of asset forfeiture, punishing people who have been found guilty of nothing. Now, if the kid was on parole or probation, then yeah, the dad should go to jail for providing the gun.

[DAB]

I actually have very mixed feelings about that. The kid has the presumption of innocence, until he is found guilty. I really don't agree that we should be taking away people's rights unless they have been found guilty of a crime. It smacks too much of asset forfeiture, punishing people who have been found guilty of nothing. Now, if the kid was on parole or probation, then yeah, the dad should go to jail for providing the gun.

ATF form 4473 is your friend. you may not be transferred a firearm if you are under indictment for a felony, nor if you are a user of illegal drugs (including pot).

[99 pewtercoupe]

Those ads are often generated automatically based on buzzwords in the articles.

If you read the article, this was the paper edition not their web site. Also the ad was one of the "stick on" type not printed. There is a picture of the front page of the newspaper and the ad in the link I posted

[Bill]

ATF form 4473 is your friend. you may not be transferred a firearm if you are under indictment for a felony, nor if you are a user of illegal drugs (including pot).

You also might lose your money in a traffic stop because without any proof of a crime or guilt, an officer "feels" like it might be drug related.

That doesn't make either of those things right.

[Jeff '79]

This entire incident is out of the "are you fk'n kidding me?" file.

Just tragic for all of the parishioners involved.

All I can do is shake my head and think... :wtf:

[VITE1]

That was done under Reagan.

Incorrect. The laws were changed before he came into office and he was forces to release many. With no one to care for he had to close the facilities.
The ones who case the problem tried to shift blame immediately.

Edit: adding data

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690151/

https://books.google.com/books?id=ixyrcOPYchUC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=Involuntary+Commitment+laws+changed+in+1970s+activist+lawyers&source=bl&ots=AbNPsFL6TP&sig=dHW5fwFKA0SXRQgrccVtgUVySpg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yUiDVceKBoXBtQWqqY_IDw&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Involuntary%20Commitment%20laws%20changed%20in%201970s%20activist%20lawyers&f=false

This was brought up each and every time other mass shooting or killing take place. Activist lawyers forced a massive change in mental health laws and prevent many family members from involuntarily committing members of their family who pose a risk to themselves or others. We have been paying the price for this since.

[MrPeabody]

Incorrect. The laws were changed before he came into office and he was forces to release many. With no one to care for he had to close the facilities.
The ones who case the problem tried to shift blame immediately.

Edit: adding data

Public Policy and Mental Illnesses: Jimmy Carter's Presidential Commission on Mental Health (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690151/)

https://books.google.com/books?id=ixyrcOPYchUC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=Involuntary+Commitment+laws+changed+in+1970s+activist+lawyers&source=bl&ots=AbNPsFL6TP&sig=dHW5fwFKA0SXRQgrccVtgUVySpg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yUiDVceKBoXBtQWqqY_IDw&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Involuntary%20Commitment%20laws%20changed%20in%201970s%20activist%20lawyers&f=false

This was brought up each and every time other mass shooting or killing take place. Activist lawyers forced a massive change in mental health laws and prevent many family members from involuntarily committing members of their family who pose a risk to themselves or others. We have been paying the price for this since.

This issue does go back a long time and it is very complex. There is plenty of blame to go around in hindsight, as is the case with many issues.

Here's a good article on the subject. Long but good read.

HOW RELEASE OF MENTAL PATIENTS BEGAN - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html?pagewanted=1)

[VITE1]

This issue does go back a long time and it is very complex. There is plenty of blame to go around in hindsight, as is the case with many issues.

Here's a good article on the subject. Long but good read.

HOW RELEASE OF MENTAL PATIENTS BEGAN - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html?pagewanted=1)

:iagree:

Whenever someone says 'Reagan closed the mental Health facilities" they forget they were being emptied.

Then Reagan was vilified for then getting many of the really dangerous one put in prison.

We have had dozens of decades of abuse of the mentally ill. Now we suffer for our failure to really address the situation based on facts VS Dogma.

[OddBall]

D. Storm Roof????

odd ball name if ever was one.....Kid probably had the living shit teased/kicked outta him all his life, his folks really set him up......


:issues:

:deli:

[MrPeabody]

:iagree:

Whenever someone says 'Reagan closed the mental Health facilities" they forget they were being emptied.

Then Reagan was vilified for then getting many of the really dangerous one put in prison.

We have had dozens of decades of abuse of the mentally ill. Now we suffer for our failure to really address the situation based on facts VS Dogma.

What I remember from that time in my state was that it was framed as a civil rights issue. There were people being held against their will without their cases being adjucated, and in many cases, this was wrong. But the problem was more complex than that. I seem to remember the movie One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest prompting a lot of discussion by folks. It was written by Ken Kesey, who was a learned man in this area, but the movie was a bit dramatized in my opinion. Leave it to California to confuse drama with reality.

[LATB]

Cuckoo's Nest was an effort of the left to manipulate public opinion/policy. It works. And the tactic continues.

[MrPeabody]

Cuckoo's Nest was an effort of the left to manipulate public opinion/policy. It works. And the tactic continues.

Neither side of politics are strangers to using entertainment to influence public opinion. It's a tactic as old as entertainment itself.:yesnod:

Cuckoo's Nest was particularly successful because it was a damn good movie with top-notch acting. Still like to watch it even though it wasn't all that political to me. I'm just a big jack Nicholson fan.

Interestingly, my wife worked as an RN in Psych wards early in her career at that time. To this day she can't stand the movie and will leave the room if it's on. I think it brings back bad memories for her.

[VITE1]

What I remember from that time in my state was that it was framed as a civil rights issue. There were people being held against their will without their cases being adjucated, and in many cases, this was wrong. But the problem was more complex than that. I seem to remember the movie One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest prompting a lot of discussion by folks. It was written by Ken Kesey, who was a learned man in this area, but the movie was a bit dramatized in my opinion. Leave it to California to confuse drama with reality.

I am trying realty hard to not make this about politics. The "Civil Rights issue" is cover for many on the left to push their agenda. Welfare is a right. HC is a right, Housing is a right.

In most cases , if you had a mentally unstable person in your family, you had to get a court order. Depending on the sate it was different.

And the system was abused and some of the mental health facilities were being run like concentration camps.
We went too far in the "rights" department on this issue yet the left refuses to accept it. Never once do you hear them calling for a review of involuntary committal. Only have the 99.99 % of Sane Americans jump through more hoops to get guns.

Adam Lanza and the nutcase kids in, VA, CO and Malibu all would have and should have been committed and treated IF the old laws were in place. It's time we have a serious discussion on this. Not use it to push an anti gun agenda which is exactly what the left has started to do.

[MrPeabody]

I am trying realty hard to not make this about politics. The "Civil Rights issue" is cover for many on the left to push their agenda. Welfare is a right. HC is a right, Housing is a right.

In most cases , if you had a mentally unstable person in your family, you had to get a court order. Depending on the sate it was different.

And the system was abused and some of the mental health facilities were being run like concentration camps.
We went too far in the "rights" department on this issue yet the left refuses to accept it. Never once do you hear them calling for a review of involuntary committal. Only have the 99.99 % of Sane Americans jump through more hoops to get guns.

Adam Lanza and the nutcase kids in, VA, CO and Malibu all would have and should have been committed and treated IF the old laws were in place. It's time we have a serious discussion on this. Not use it to push an anti gun agenda which is exactly what the left has started to do.

:iagree: It would lessen the burden on the correctional system, too. That's where a lot of these people wind up. My county jail is in the process of adding a "mental health" wing at great expense to the taxpayers. And of course these people have to commit a crime to wind up there. If they were committed to begin with, that crime need not have happened. We are not only treating the problem the wrong way, we are treating it the most expensive way.

[LATB]

Neither side of politics are strangers to using entertainment to influence public opinion. It's a tactic as old as entertainment itself.:yesnod:



I wouldn't disagree with that. But you also can not disagree that the left owns the space. And has for 50 years. And have been, and still are, very successful at it. I submit, it may be great for the movement...but has not been good for the county as a whole.

[MrPeabody]

I wouldn't disagree with that. But you also can not disagree that the left owns the space. And has for 50 years. And have been, and still are, very successful at it. I submit, it may be great for the movement...but has not been good for the county as a whole.

I disagree that the left "owns" the space. Better at it? Probably. But it's not because the right doesn't try. I see very little Country Music promoting left causes and it had grown in popularity by leaps and bounds for the last 35-40 years.

[MrPeabody]

Damn, we're about 8-10 posts into a civil political discussion. What's the record here, anyway?:lol:

[LATB]

I disagree that the left "owns" the space. Better at it? Probably. But it's not because the right doesn't try. I see very little Country Music promoting left causes and it had grown in popularity by leaps and bounds for the last 35-40 years.

Country music? :Jeff '79:

Yeah right.

They may preach to the choir. But if you think they have any cultural influence even a fraction of Hollywood and lib dominated TV. You are nuts yourself. :rofl:

[LATB]

Damn, we're about 8-10 posts into a civil political discussion. What's the record here, anyway?:lol:

The whine team will enter soon enough. :Jeff '79:

[MrPeabody]

Country music? :Jeff '79:

Yeah right.

They may preach to the choir. But if you think they have any cultural influence even a fraction of Hollywood and lib dominated TV. You are nuts yourself. :rofl:

Ummm...Fox news has more viewers that all other cable news combined. Rush Limbaugh has more listeners than any other radio personality in the country.

[LATB]

Ummm...Fox news has more viewers that all other cable news combined. Rush Limbaugh has more listeners than any other radio personality in the country.

You can not seriously believe Rush has the cultural influence that Hollywood does. :Jeff '79:

[MrPeabody]

You can not seriously believe Rush has the cultural influence that Hollywood does. :Jeff '79:

He does to radio listeners, and that's a huge amount of people. The point is, he dominates an entertainment venue, talk radio. And people listen every day to him. People don't see movies every day. And not everything Hollywood does is controlled by the left. Do you think American Sniper, one of the most successful movies in history, was made by the left?

[mrvette]

You can not seriously believe Rush has the cultural influence that Hollywood does. :Jeff '79:

UNfortunately correct......damnit......:issues:

[LATB]

He does to radio listeners, and that's a huge amount of people. The point is, he dominates an entertainment venue, talk radio. And people listen every day to him. People don't see movies every day. And not everything Hollywood does is controlled by the left. Do you think American Sniper, one of the most successful movies in history, was made by the left?

Rush for the most part preaches to the choir.

The left OWNS Hollywood and most entertainment. It is an undeniable fact. :seasix:

[MrPeabody]

Rush for the most part preaches to the choir.

The left OWNS Hollywood and most entertainment. It is an undeniable fact. :seasix:

I disagree, we'll leave it at that.

[LATB]

I disagree, we'll leave it at that.

:cert:

[mrvette]

I disagree, we'll leave it at that.

Sorry man, gotta go with LARS on this one....damnit....:sadangel::issues:

[Sea Six]

I gotta ... uh....







giggety

[Sea Six]

Page 2!


:woohoo:

[DAB]

Some people are evil.

There is no way to stop them before they commit evil acts. But you can be prepared to respond when evil presents itself in front of you.

[SnikPlosskin]

Some people are evil.

There is no way to stop them before they commit evil acts. But you can be prepared to respond when evil presents itself in front of you.

That may be true but at the church I attend, I'm helping develop a security protocol. Anybody attempting that sort of thing is going to open a can of holy whoopass down here in the heart of Texas.

[DAB]

Read earlier that in SC, concealed carry permit holders are barred by law from bringing their gun with them to churches.

May want to re-think that.

Gun free zones are dangerous.

[Rob]

And on the other end of the spectrum you have Rachel Dolezal, who was born white but yearned to be black. :confused5:

You know, I was gone for a little while and this was something that apparently happened while I was away and I have seen a bunch of memes on Facebook about this. So I could not figure out what this was about.

[Jeff '79]

You know, I was gone for a little while and this was something that apparently happened while I was away and I have seen a bunch of memes on Facebook about this. So I could not figure out what this was about.

4419

[99 pewtercoupe]

4419

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[LATB]

4419

:rofl:

Your best post all week :seasix:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

:rofl:

Your best post all week :seasix:

:bfd: :bfd: :bfd:

[Rob]

<img src="http://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4419"/>

Nice.

This country is full of crazy people

[Burro (He/Haw)]

This country is full of crazy people

This country as in the US or the current country you're occupying?

[Mike Mercury]

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads24/image1434603933.jpg

[DAB]

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads24/image1434603933.jpg

Looks like a cat. :leaving:

[8Up]

Read earlier that in SC, concealed carry permit holders are barred by law from bringing their gun with them to churches.

May want to re-think that.

Gun free zones are dangerous.

Mostly true, However if you have written permission from the pastor you can carry on Church property. FYI, My church is not a soft target.

http://www.usacarry.com/south_carolina_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

[DAB]

and if i'm a first time visitor... i'm SOL.

we have a 'fancy' grocery store here, Sprouts, they put a sign in the front window some time ago, basically said 'no firearms, manager has authority to permit firearms'.

cool, ok. it's in the same mall as my main gun store. so i walk in, request the manager, i want to discuss their sign. 15 min of pointless waiting later, the asst. manager tells me he's in a meeting, and that he never grants permission.

fine and dandy, nice pointless sign you have there. have not been back to that store since then.

[DAB]

Dr. John Lott's take:

Gun-free zones an easy target for killers | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/06/18/gun-free-zones-easy-target-for-killers.html)

[Mike Mercury]

Gun free zones are dangerous.

http://www.tim-yvonne.com/gif/bell1.gif

you'll never hear that on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC news outlets.

"You can't sell snake-oil without the salesman"

[DAB]

"Pretend gun free zones"

about sums it up.

Charleston shooting prompts gun-rights supporters to call for more concealed-carry at churches - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/18/charleston-church-shooting-prompts-gun-rights-supp/)

[OddBall]

Little cowards reasoning:
"I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country. And you have to go."

So does he go up to a street gang and start his rampage?
No. They'd shoot back.
Instead, he shoots up a church of peaceful, law-abiding people.
Rabid little shit is just making up a reason to kill. Which is all he really wanted to do. If it wasn't blacks he focused on, it would have been Jews, Mexicans, Muslims, Catholics, homosexuals...etc. Take your pick. Al he needed was an excuse to justify it with.

We need to tattoo a picture on his chest of a Jewish hog cornholing Mohamed, and then air drop him over an ISIS controlled town.

[JRD77VET]

Little cowards reasoning:


So does he go up to a street gang and start his rampage?
No. They'd shoot back.
Instead, he shoots up a church of peaceful, law-abiding people.
Rabid little shit is just making up a reason to kill. Which is all he really wanted to do. If it wasn't blacks he focused on, it would have been Jews, Mexicans, Muslims, Catholics, homosexuals...etc. Take your pick. Al he needed was an excuse to justify it with.

We need to tattoo a picture on his chest of a Jewish hog cornholing Mohamed, and then air drop him over an ISIS controlled town.

Do we have to waste a parachute?

[OddBall]

Do we have to waste a parachute?

Well, we would want him to show off his new tattoo to ISIS. I'm sure they'd really want to play with him once they saw that.

[VatorMan]

Little cowards reasoning:

We need to tattoo a picture on his chest of a Jewish hog cornholing Mohamed, and then air drop him over an ISIS controlled town.

Nope. Drop this piece of filth downtown Fergeson, Chicago, DC. Etc...Tell the local populace he's yours and walk away.

[mrvette]

Looks like a cat. :leaving:

How wood U know, puzzy.........:lol::cert: