View Full Version : OK; I am having issues with this
Mike Mercury
05-11-2015, 9:57am
while I am sympathetic to parents of special need children, this was soooo easily avoided; the mother was well aware of her childs unique needs... but didn't plan ahead very well.
Family With Autistic Daughter Forced Off Plane
The mother of an autistic girl has told how they were forced to get off a flight that made an emergency landing because the airline said her daughter was "disruptive".
Dr Donna Beegle said they were flying to Portland, Oregan, from a holiday at Disney World in Orlando, Florida, with United Airlines when 15-year-old Juliette began to get hungry.
She said Juliette refused snacks they had brought with them and needed hot food quickly to avoid her having a "meltdown".
She told KPTV: "I asked the flight attendant if they had anything hot, because Juliette is very particular about her food
"If it's warm she won't eat it, if it's cold she won't eat it, it has to have steam rolling off of it."
The family were told hot meals could only be served to first-class passengers.
Dr Beegle, from Tigard, Oregon, said: "The flight attendant said, 'There's not anything we can get you', so I said, 'Well how about we wait for her to have a meltdown, and start crying and she tries to scratch, and then you'll want to help her'."
A flight attendant then brought a hot meal from first class, and Dr Beegle said Juliette calmed down.
The aircraft then made an emergency landing in Salt Lake City, Utah, where police boarded the plane and asked the family to leave.
Dr Beegle said: "We were shocked to hear them say we're going to make an emergency landing in Salt Lake City. We have a passenger in the back of the plane who has behaviour issues.
"I asked them why and they said 'the captain doesn't feel comfortable flying to Portland with your daughter on the flight'."
Writing on her Facebook page, Dr Beegle said: "This was a sheer case of ignorance. Prejudice, ignorance and mistreatment are all too common toward people facing poverty."
Footage of the moment the family were removed from the flight has been posted online. In it, passengers can be heard calling for the family to be allowed to remain on board.
United Airlines said in a statement: "After working to accommodate Dr Beegle and her daughter during the flight, the crew made the best decision for the safety and comfort of all of our customers and elected to divert to Salt Lake City after the situation became disruptive.
"We rebooked the customers on a different carrier and the flight continued to Portland."
The family has complained to the Federal Aviation Administration and plans to sue the airline.
Either fly first class, or don't fly at all.
bring your own munchies. :slap:
while I am sympathetic to parents of special need children, this was soooo easily avoided; the mother was well aware of her childs unique needs... but didn't plan ahead very well.
Either fly first class, or don't fly at all.
:iagree:
Please note the Mother is a rights activist.
Aerovette
05-11-2015, 10:12am
Sedation before travel. :leaving:
Obviously, y'all have never dealt with an autistic child who has meltdowns. It's not as simple or easy as you think.:sadangel:
correct, i have no experience with that at all.
but the mom does, so she should know what will be needed and plan accordingly.
Sneaks
05-11-2015, 10:31am
correct, i have no experience with that at all.
but the mom does, so she should know what will be needed and plan accordingly.
Have to agree with DAB on this one.
"Your lack of preparedness does not constitute an emergency on my part"
RedLS1GTO
05-11-2015, 10:36am
IN HER OWN WORDS:
...so I said, 'Well how about we wait for her to have a meltdown, and start crying and she tries to scratch, and then you'll want to help her'."
If you expect people to make exceptions and help you, it's probably best not to act like a raving bitch. Just a thought.
The family has complained to the Federal Aviation Administration and plans to sue the airline.
Of course they do. :rolleyes:
F**k her. Was probably her intent from the start.
Yes, the mom should have been prepared and it seems she tried to be by bringing snacks. But, the daughter wanted something else. It's impossible to know or prepare for anything and everything the child might decide they want which could lead to a meltdown. If it had been my daughter, almost anything can set her off when she's confused, scared, doesn't understand something, in pain, plans change, or any of a zillion other things.
And sedate them? You have to sedate them to the point of almost unconsciousness to achieve desired results. BTDT, it doesn't work. They don't react to meds like other people in a lot of cases.
And before anyone says they are just spoiled.........well, that's not even worth discussing. Get back to me after you've raised an autistic child who has meltdowns. I did not spoil my daughter. She has severe medical problems which affect her perception, understanding, and communication.
I will say this........I've only flown with my daughter once. And we did go first class. It was a nightmare. Flight was cancelled and we had to stay overnight. The change in plans really set her off. Unless it's 100% unavoidable, I'll never do it again. You can't prepare for every circumstance.
Trust me, we'll do almost anything to avoid a meltdown. You think it's tough on those around them? Try thinking about how miserable they are when they totally lose control.:sadangel:
BTW, I'm NOT sticking up for the mom. She sounds like a raving lunatic bitch. :funniest:
RedLS1GTO
05-11-2015, 10:58am
BTW, I'm NOT sticking up for the mom. She sounds like a raving lunatic bitch. :funniest:
From what I see, that's the problem.
I'd be willing to bet that they did what they did because of HER, not because of the daughter.
I'd also be willing to bet that if she had gone about it in a civil manner and simply explained the situation without going into full bitch mode, it would have been a drama free event.
another account:
Oregon family says they were kicked off United flight due to autistic daughter's behavior | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/11/oregon-family-says-were-kicked-off-united-flight-due-to-autistic-daughter/)
relevant quote: "...is suing United in the hope of requiring all flight attendants to undergo training in dealing with autistic passengers."
ummm....how are they supposed to do that? this is something that apparently affects behavior, as opposed to an obvious physical limitation (like confined to a wheel chair). does the passenger have to declare that they are autistic? and assuming that the FA is made aware of this, does the passenger also have to tell them what might happen and what the cure might be? what if the cure is not available on the plane? this doesn't sound like a one size cure fits all kind of thing. maybe some want a specific food, others want a specific physical item....
planes are not flying diagnostic wards. FAs have plenty to do as it is.
if her experience has shown that flying is not the best way to go, then go to plan B. does that involve more time? maybe. more money? maybe.
we all have limitations, mental and physical, that we have to work around. some disrupt our plans or the plans of others, but we do the best we can. do i like to fly? no. so i plan to drive. if i had to, yes, i could fly somewhere.
if this lady and her daughter have now discovered that flying is not their best overall option, then think of something else.
Nemesis
05-11-2015, 11:12am
BTW, I'm NOT sticking up for the mom. She sounds like a raving lunatic bitch. :funniest:
Though, 15 years of diffusing consistent (daily? weekly? I don't know) meltdowns can take its toll on even the nicest of folks.
It's difficult to judge the situation with the small amount of information provided, but then it's not really our place to do so anyways.
From what I see, that's the problem.
I'd be willing to bet that they did what they did because of HER, not because of the daughter.
I'd also be willing to bet that if she had gone about it in a civil manner and simply explained the situation without going into full bitch mode, it would have been a drama free event.
:iagree:
"If it's warm she won't eat it, if it's cold she won't eat it, it has to have steam rolling off of it."
The family were told hot meals could only be served to first-class passengers.
Dr Beegle, from Tigard, Oregon, said: "The flight attendant said, 'There's not anything we can get you', so I said, 'Well how about we wait for her to have a meltdown, and start crying and she tries to scratch, and then you'll want to help her'."
The Mother is the problem. If she had said it in a different way VS telling them they WILL have a meltdown they most likely would have gotten t meal and been on their way.
Imagine if You or I said " If I don;t get a hot meal for myself I'm going to get nasty and start Scratching you and others" what would happen.
Aerovette
05-11-2015, 11:32am
If I am not mistaken, you can declare any special assistance you need when you purchase the ticket. If not then, you can do so at the gate. She "could have" stated that her daughter has special needs and they ar ewilling to pay an upcharge to obtain a hot meal for her on the flight. I mean, even at an extra 20 bucks, it has to be worth the inconvenience of getting tossed. Then again, there is more money to be made in a lawsuit. :leaving:
I wish I could find something to sue over for a cool $400k. That would solve about a thousand issues I have going on right now. :lol:
island14
05-11-2015, 11:32am
From what I see, that's the problem.
I'd be willing to bet that they did what they did because of HER, not because of the daughter.
I'd also be willing to bet that if she had gone about it in a civil manner and simply explained the situation without going into full bitch mode, it would have been a drama free event.
Probably... And was my first thought.
But kinda hard to tell from the story without all of the details.
Footage of the moment the family were removed from the flight has been posted online. In it, passengers can be heard calling for the family to be allowed to remain on board.
This part sounds like they were not really a problem or out of line. :island14:
Could go either way, attendant was a bitch... or the Mom was... sounds like a coin toss without more details.
Just the idea that she might have a meltdown does not sound like enough to kick them off, but if she did have a meltdown, it would be understandable.
I have seen a few Flight attendants be kinda snotty asswipes at times to people flying with kids.
But most are pretty professional and have good people skills.
NeedSpeed
05-11-2015, 11:37am
I find the odd part about this story is it said they went ahead and brought her a hot meal and she calmed down.
On top of it, they were flying from Florida going to Oregon and they landed in Utah? They were most of the way there.
They had maybe an hour or two to go and they chose to delay everyone on the plane for likely hours I'm sure by the time they landed, handled the situation, and got cleared to continue.
StaticCling
05-11-2015, 11:42am
Obviously, y'all have never dealt with an autistic child who has meltdowns. It's not as simple or easy as you think.:sadangel:
cso7nzw8j0I
wicked_c6
05-11-2015, 3:09pm
:iagree:
The Mother is the problem. If she had said it in a different way VS telling them they WILL have a meltdown they most likely would have gotten t meal and been on their way.
Imagine if You or I said " If I don;t get a hot meal for myself I'm going to get nasty and start Scratching you and others" what would happen.
Having flown first class many times...they don't always have spare meals laying around. They usually only take the required number of meals for those passengers in First Class. I know this because I've asked to change my meal and was told they only have the exact number. Makes sense because why would the airline order 22 meals when there's only 20 people in FC...its a money waster.
Grey Ghost
05-11-2015, 3:34pm
What is it with people and food. They act like they can't go a few hours without stuffing their pie hole. Give me a break. Eat your damn food before or after the flight.
My bad memory is of a flight and a whiff of some vial smelling crap a foreigner decided to unwrap once airborne. :kick:
Cybercowboy
05-11-2015, 3:40pm
What is it with people and food. They act like they can't go a few hours without stuffing their pie hole. Give me a break. Eat your damn food before or after the flight.
My bad memory is of a flight and a whiff of some vial smelling crap a foreigner decided to unwrap once airborne. :kick:
I've had situations where I literally didn't get a chance to eat anything for many hours due to long waiting lines in security, tight connections, etc. It sucks, and eating the pretzels/peanuts they give you just to keep from getting light headed sucks.
i spent many years flying on business.
some pro tips: bring your own munchies. go to the grocery a day or two before and load up on some good stuff. fruit, granola bars, candy (watch the chocolate, it can melt and be messy), crackers. way more selection and cheaper than trying to find something once at the airport and under a time crunch. as for drinks, if security goons won't let you bring drinks thru the line (i haven't flown for a few years), no sweat, get a nalgene bottle, fill it up at a water fountain once thru the check point. it will take about 30 seconds. now you have 20-32 oz of water for the trip.
this really isn't that hard.
and if you don't eat everything you brought, it'll keep for next time or the return trip home.
:DAB:
Burro (He/Haw)
05-11-2015, 3:54pm
What is it with people and food.
'Food worriers.' If there's free food, they're first in line to make sure they get their portion. If they're serving food somewhere like a picnic or some department gathering at work, they're always first to make sure they get theirs. And if they should run out as has happened a time or two or someone gets the head count rong and they come up short? That's all they talk about for two days. "Johnny did get food!
Fuk Johnny, and fuk you, you fat bovine SOB you got yours didn't you? The Pity Train has derailed at the intersection of Suck It Up and Move On.
I worked with this one guy who used to follow the vending machine guy around taking all the expired sandwiches that were bound for the trash because. 'hey, they're still good!.' Digging in a garbage can and the guy clears $150K/year. :bslap:
The Pity Train has derailed at the intersection of Suck It Up and Move On.
:funny: :funny: :funny: I may need to use that. Is it copyrighted? Do I need to pay royalties?
Burro (He/Haw)
05-11-2015, 4:02pm
:funny: :funny: :funny: I may need to use that. Is it copyrighted? Do I need to pay royalties?
I think I picked that up on Twitter. Fair game. :lol:
Having flown first class many times...they don't always have spare meals laying around. They usually only take the required number of meals for those passengers in First Class. I know this because I've asked to change my meal and was told they only have the exact number. Makes sense because why would the airline order 22 meals when there's only 20 people in FC...its a money waster.
BTDT. Sit in the last row in 1st class and many times you only get one choice in the meal since all alternatives meals are gone.
i spent many years flying on business.
some pro tips: bring your own munchies. go to the grocery a day or two before and load up on some good stuff. fruit, granola bars, candy (watch the chocolate, it can melt and be messy), crackers. way more selection and cheaper than trying to find something once at the airport and under a time crunch. as for drinks, if security goons won't let you bring drinks thru the line (i haven't flown for a few years), no sweat, get a nalgene bottle, fill it up at a water fountain once thru the check point. it will take about 30 seconds. now you have 20-32 oz of water for the trip.
this really isn't that hard.
and if you don't eat everything you brought, it'll keep for next time or the return trip home.
:DAB:
Southwest business select. peanuts. pretzels. beer. I had Fat Tire Ale x2 each way. Wife: "it's 10 am you gonna drink beer?" Me: "coupons came with the tickets, besides...it's 5 o'clock somewhere" :D :Jeff '79:
I find the odd part about this story is it said they went ahead and brought her a hot meal and she calmed down.
On top of it, they were flying from Florida going to Oregon and they landed in Utah? They were most of the way there.
They had maybe an hour or two to go and they chose to delay everyone on the plane for likely hours I'm sure by the time they landed, handled the situation, and got cleared to continue.
This. This right here. Was the girl really going to bring down the plane? I feel quite sure that the FA's and passengers could have restrained this girl if need be. They wanted to make an example of her and the mother, and that example screwed up schedules for not just every other passenger, but also for the air crew, and possibly people waiting to board the airplane at the intended destination.
This is an example by the pilot of, "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should actually do it."
I'm sure if they had taken a voice vote of the passengers, they would have voted to just get where they were going.
Now, here's my "make people mad" thought:
How were these kids handled 50 years ago? 100 years ago? One of my best friends told me he had severe OCD as a kid. I would have never know it if he didn't tell me. You know why I would have never known it? His dad smacked him with a belt every time they caught him doing one of his non desirable OCD behaviors. My friend is about as stubborn as they come, but eventually, even he learned, don't do the undesirable behavior, because, I guess, he got tired of getting his bottom tanned with that belt. Yes, that sounds cruel, but my friend can now go through life without being a victim of that compulsive behavior.
I suspect that's the way this type of problem used to be handled. Of course, if the mom had paddled the daughter to stop the tantrum, people would be talking about what a bad mother she was, and how she should be arrested.
Remember how we thought it was great when the mother in Baltimore was smacking her kid for doing the wrong thing? Same principle applies here. I realize autistic kids react differently to things, but eventually, even for them corporal punishment works. I know this, because another friend of mine has a Down's son (pretty severe, the kid is barely verbal), and when he starts getting agitated, all my friend has to do is mention a spanking, and the agitated behavior stops.....immediately. I'm sure it took him years to get to that point, though.
[flame suit on]
Burro (He/Haw)
05-11-2015, 4:44pm
he got tired of getting his bottom tanned
Bottom tanned?
:lol:
I didn't think you were THAT old.
'Thomas! If you pull a stunt like this again, you're gonna get,,
your bottom tanned!!'
:funnier:
Bottom tanned?
:lol:
I didn't think you were THAT old.
'Thomas! If you pull a stunt like this again, you're gonna get,,
your bottom tanned!!
:funnier:
Now you're cooking with gas!
Wiseacre.
justlookin
05-11-2015, 4:52pm
This. This right here. Was the girl really going to bring down the plane? I feel quite sure that the FA's and passengers could have restrained this girl if need be. They wanted to make an example of her and the mother, and that example screwed up schedules for not just every other passenger, but also for the air crew, and possibly people waiting to board the airplane at the intended destination.
This is an example by the pilot of, "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should actually do it."
I'm sure if they had taken a voice vote of the passengers, they would have voted to just get where they were going.
Now, here's my "make people mad" thought:
How were these kids handled 50 years ago? 100 years ago? One of my best friends told me he had severe OCD as a kid. I would have never know it if he didn't tell me. You know why I would have never known it? His dad smacked him with a belt every time they caught him doing one of his non desirable OCD behaviors. My friend is about as stubborn as they come, but eventually, even he learned, don't do the undesirable behavior, because, I guess, he got tired of getting his bottom tanned with that belt. Yes, that sounds cruel, but my friend can now go through life without being a victim of that compulsive behavior.
I suspect that's the way this type of problem used to be handled. Of course, if the mom had paddled the daughter to stop the tantrum, people would be talking about what a bad mother she was, and how she should be arrested.
Remember how we thought it was great when the mother in Baltimore was smacking her kid for doing the wrong thing? Same principle applies here. I realize autistic kids react differently to things, but eventually, even for them corporal punishment works. I know this, because another friend of mine has a Down's son (pretty severe, the kid is barely verbal), and when he starts getting agitated, all my friend has to do is mention a spanking, and the agitated behavior stops.....immediately. I'm sure it took him years to get to that point, though.
[flame suit on]
First bold part. Not always true. Plus there are better ways to deal with behavior then by hitting.
Second bold part. Not the same.
For your question of how they were handled in earlier times. Many were institutionalized. Most were not diagnosed as being Autistic.
Mike Mercury
05-11-2015, 5:03pm
you got yours didn't you? 'Food worriers.' If there's free food, they're first in line to make sure they get their portion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IbgTPftvWc
The Pity Train has derailed at the intersection of Suck It Up and Move On.
:rofl:
Burro (He/Haw)
05-11-2015, 5:05pm
Now you're cooking with gas!
Wiseacre.
Stop it!!!!!!!!
Millenium Vette
05-11-2015, 5:28pm
This. This right here. Was the girl really going to bring down the plane? I feel quite sure that the FA's and passengers could have restrained this girl if need be. They wanted to make an example of her and the mother, and that example screwed up schedules for not just every other passenger, but also for the air crew, and possibly people waiting to board the airplane at the intended destination.
This is an example by the pilot of, "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should actually do it."
I'm sure if they had taken a voice vote of the passengers, they would have voted to just get where they were going.
Now, here's my "make people mad" thought:
How were these kids handled 50 years ago? 100 years ago? One of my best friends told me he had severe OCD as a kid. I would have never know it if he didn't tell me. You know why I would have never known it? His dad smacked him with a belt every time they caught him doing one of his non desirable OCD behaviors. My friend is about as stubborn as they come, but eventually, even he learned, don't do the undesirable behavior, because, I guess, he got tired of getting his bottom tanned with that belt. Yes, that sounds cruel, but my friend can now go through life without being a victim of that compulsive behavior.
I suspect that's the way this type of problem used to be handled. Of course, if the mom had paddled the daughter to stop the tantrum, people would be talking about what a bad mother she was, and how she should be arrested.
[flame suit on]
Yeah, you're gonna need that flame suit. You are talking out of your ass about something you know nothing about and have no experience with.
My sister (1960-1995) was autistic. And not the type of autistic like in the Rain Man bullshit movie. And not like the latest classifications of autism where they categorize many smaller problems under the autism umbrella.
What did they do 50 years ago? I can answer that seeing as how I was there at the time, albeit very young. They didn't do jack shit. There were no special education programs for these kids. My mother and other parents had to work to get the school system to start an educational program. She attended many conferences, gave speeches to educational groups and did many other things to get a program started. Back then the odds of being autistic were 1 in 2,500. They have since widened what autism covers since then for whatever reason.
To compare OCD to autism is ignorance. The two have nothing in common, although an autistic person can have OCD issues as well. If you have never dealt with an autistic person during a meltdown, you have no idea what it is like. You think the flight attendants and passengers can restrain someone during one of these meltdowns? Wrong. Try holding someone down when they are biting you hard enough to tear off a finger or even a hand. That is no exaggeration. The mother paddling the kid during a meltdown? It's pretty hard to paddle someone when they are attacking you.
I agree 100% with the pilot's call to make an emergency landing. It is his obligation to do what he feels is safest for the passengers, whether they realize it or not.
NeedSpeed
05-11-2015, 5:33pm
If she didn't calm down I'd agree with landing. But with the limited info, it appears the situation was under control.
Grey Ghost
05-11-2015, 7:37pm
I've had situations where I literally didn't get a chance to eat anything for many hours due to long waiting lines in security, tight connections, etc. It sucks, and eating the pretzels/peanuts they give you just to keep from getting light headed sucks.
You wouldn't get light headed, if you would stop flailing your head around :D
NEED-A-VETTE
05-11-2015, 8:10pm
My nephew is autistic. He has known stressors. We plan for them.
The mother was very specific with what her daughter needed. In other words, it was clearly a known stressor. She could easily have brought a cheeseburger from the food court and had it on hand, to have the crew heat it up...to resolve what she KNEW was a potential stressor. She didn't do that. Instead, she expected the crew to accommodate her for her lack of planning.
It seems they did accommodate her, but not before she threatened them with "what could happen" if they didn't. I find it funny that the mother thought her daughter's behavior may get so bad that she threatened them with it...and then was appalled that they took her at her word (regarding how bad it could get).
If the behaviors can get so bad that you use it to threaten someone, be prepared for them to take you at your word.
markids77
05-11-2015, 8:47pm
And next time, drive. BTW, what's this crap about poverty??? Airfare and a swanky vacation do not speak of impoverishment.
Writing on her Facebook page, Dr Beegle said: "This was a sheer case of ignorance. Prejudice, ignorance and mistreatment are all too common toward people facing poverty."
Sorry about the kids problems. But fuk this mother bitch. How are you a doctor, flying from Oregon to Florida and back on a Disney vacation, and play the poverty card.
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