Diagnose my dishwasher issue...

[Uncle Meat]

15 year old Kenmore Model # 363.14191992 that was in my home when purchased new. Thus far it has been pretty reliable with only two repairs made over its current lifetime. An elbow connector for the bottom drain split and caused a leak 6 or 7 years ago and then I had to replace the rubber door seal because it had become compressed to the point of leaking occasionally.

So the wife tells me the dishwasher is not cleaning dishes and that there is still dish soap clinging to the inside of the door after the cycle completes. So I put an LED flashlight into a Ziploc bag and grabbed my GoPro and put them in the washer, closed the door and turned it on.

Broken Dishwasher - YouTube

So is my pump shot?

U.M.

[DAB]

15 years? You got your money's worth. Time for a new one.

[LATB]

15 years? You got your money's worth. Time for a new one.

I agree.

[lander]

Drop a viagra pill in there, run it through the "long" cycle, and you should be good to go. :seasix:

[mrvette]

Agreed......new one, When you get the new one, IF You doing the install, make sure the older 3/8 compression fill tube is turned off completely, number one.....and make sure the new d/w has the same fitting on the fill valve, some dumb bastards went over to a freeking GARDEN HOSE type fitting and you need an adaptor....save you trip to HD over this.....

:issues::shots:

[CeeFour]

There needs to be some water in the bottom of the tub in order for the pump to do its job. You might have a problem with the water inlet valve/solenoid or a timer issue.

Your video may be inconclusive if the dishwasher was in the middle of a drain & fill cycle. Try a longer video.

[Uncle Meat]

There needs to be some water in the bottom of the tub in order for the pump to do its job. You might have a problem with the water inlet valve/solenoid or a timer issue.It never fully fills with water just as you see in the video. You're the second person to suggest it may be water inlet valve/solenoid vs the pump.
Your video may be inconclusive if the dishwasher was in the middle of a drain & fill cycle. Try a longer video.The video displays the very start of the wash cycle when it should be filling with water. I have another minute or two of footage from that same video that I edited because it just showed the same behavior.

U.M.

[lander]

Doesn't it have to fill with water first, heat it, then start the wash cycle?

[DAB]

Could be the valve, could be the float (senses water level)

[RedLS1GTO]

It's a 15 year old Kenmore... go buy either a Bosch or 1 of the new higher end GE Profile models (not the old model).


-RedLS1GTO. Former dishwasher design/quality engineer. :D

[Uncle Meat]

It's a 15 year old Kenmore... go buy either a Bosch or 1 of the new higher end GE Profile models (not the old model).


-RedLS1GTO. Former dishwasher design/quality engineer. :DI was honestly trying to stretch its service life out another year if possible. We have plans for a major full kitchen remodel in the very near future and I wanted to replace all of the kitchen appliances at the same time with new models.

U.M.

[RedLS1GTO]

I was honestly trying to stretch its service life out another year if possible. We have plans for a major full kitchen remodel in the very near future and I wanted to replace all of the kitchen appliances at the same time with new models.

U.M.

I think that you will most likely come close to the cost of a new one trying to track down and fix a problem in your old one. Those things have a lot of plastic fittings/connections on them as well as gaskets and seals. After 15 years all of that tends to get brittle. If you start pulling it apart, even if you do fix the original issue, you are pretty likely to have created a leak somewhere else.

I know that most people want the uniformity of the same model appliances throughout a kitchen but after living in that world for a while, each company/model has it's strengths and weaknesses. For dishwashers, the only 2 currently out there that I would buy are Bosch and GE. Ranges/Refrigerators are a bit more open. If you want them to match, I'd say pick whatever brand you are going to go with, get the dishwasher now, and the rest later.

Disclaimer: Haven't seen the video. It's blocked here at work. If it is something minor and easy to access, disregard the above post. :D

[onedef92]

I was honestly trying to stretch its service life out another year if possible.

I think you're living on borrowed service life time at this point as it is. Replace, don't repair or you'll wind up being penny wide, pound foolish.

[DAB]

Love our GE profile stuff. Thanks Red.

[Aerovette]

My first thought is the pump. I'm like you. I like to stretch as much life out of something as I can. I'd rather fix it for $50.00, than replace it for $500.00. See if you can locate an original manual on line and see if it has a troubleshooting section.

Kenmore Dishwasher Model 363.14191992 (36314191992) Parts from RepairClinic.com (http://www.repairclinic.com/Shop-For-Parts/a9b6d632014/Model-36314191992-Kenmore-Dishwasher-Parts)

[Cybercowboy]

I was honestly trying to stretch its service life out another year if possible. We have plans for a major full kitchen remodel in the very near future and I wanted to replace all of the kitchen appliances at the same time with new models.

U.M.

Eh, don't worry about that. Just get a new one in the style you want your other new appliances. Life's too short to have dirty dishes.

[RedLS1GTO]

Eh, don't worry about that. Just get a new one in the style you want your other new appliances. Life's too short to have dirty dishes.

...and over the last 15 years dishwashers (especially the higher end) have come a LOOOOOOOOOONG way in terms of performance as well as sound.

They clean better, use less energy, less soap, and are damn near silent. As I said before, GE and Bosch are leading the way by a wide margin.

[Rob]

15 year old Kenmore [/url]


:seasix:


They quit building crap to last a long time. Now they want you as a return customer


BTW - I bought all new LG appliances and love them.

[Iron Chef]

Eh, don't worry about that. Just get a new one in the style you want your other new appliances. Life's too short to have dirty dishes.

...and over the last 15 years dishwashers (especially the higher end) have come a LOOOOOOOOOONG way in terms of performance as well as sound.

They clean better, use less energy, less soap, and are damn near silent. As I said before, GE and Bosch are leading the way by a wide margin.

Agree on both counts. I'm a big fan of KitchenAid. In fact have always had Whirlpool and now KitchenAid appliances and they've given me great service. And the dishwashers are quiet.

[DukeAllen]

Pay for a dishwasher? Wife's feet too big to reach the sink? :D

:leaving:

[onedef92]

Cascade Complete "Math" Commercial - YouTube

BTW, love the teats on that saucy hussy with the pony tail, Canadian actress Aliyah O'Brien!

[mrvette]

Moved here in '97, no dishwasher, bought a portable unit, small kitchen, by myself I could care less....noisy SOB though....but I only ran it maybe once a month....but when wifey poo came on board, after a few months we started in to replace the kitchen, and so I built in the D/W from the portable unit....so it lasted a couple years, and being a GE, it was noisey as hell no matter how much stuffing I added to the cabinet/door, under it.....sounded like the disposal and a concrete mixer running side/side....

Finally got pissed and hit CL for a 100 bux used Maytag d/w only thing rong so far is a 25 bux door latch assy....AND it has a nice HUGE amount of space inside, I can put transmission housings, engine blocks, cyl heads, intake manifolds in it......but never have, due to trying some valve covers, and found out that little short granny Linda has a HELL of a punch, for a little thing....

:rofl::leaving:

[RedLS1GTO]

They quit building crap to last a long time. Now they want you as a return customer.

That's only partially true.

Any of the appliance manufacturers could build a fridge, dishwasher, or whatever that would last forever. It would be easy. Nobody would buy them.

Look at a refrigerator from 30 years ago. I hear people all the time say how awesome it is, how it lasts forever, how it was built right, etc. Now look at what it actually DOES, how much energy it uses to do it, etc. That 30 year old fridge uses a MASSIVE amount of energy, cools unevenly, is noisy as hell, has half the actual storage space in the same size frame, and all sorts of other things that the new models are much better at. Material alone would drive the price through the roof. You want a sealed system that will last forever, double the copper. You want 28+ cubic feet of room inside with all of those massive components, you better have a big ass kitchen. You want a compressor that lasts 40 years, double the price. Quiet, large storage room, efficient,... all of these things that people want and that drive the market directly conflict with a massive overkill robust system. They aren't built to fail. They are built to sell. There is a big difference.

In recent times, GE has used absolutely as many US sourced parts as possible. They are built in the US (Kentucky, Indiana, Alabama, Tennessee). They are built with the best (and most American) components in the consumer range of appliances. What happened? The company didn't make crap as profit and was just sold to Electrolux because Americans simply don't want to pay $50 more for it.


As a side note, none of them are built with cheaper components than LG. :leaving:

[GRN ENVY]

Pay for a dishwasher? Wife's feet too big to reach the sink? :D

:leaving:

Took this long to make a wife joke????? This forum is slipping

[DukeAllen]

Took this long to make a wife joke????? This forum is slipping

I can't be on 24 hours a day. :shrug:

[lander]

I can't be on 24 hours a day. :shrug:

Quitter.

[DukeAllen]

Quitter.

No just a non virgin :D

[Cybercowboy]

:seasix:


They quit building crap to last a long time. Now they want you as a return customer


BTW - I bought all new LG appliances and love them.

Our dishwasher, upgraded when we remodeled our kitchen several years ago, is also an LG. It works great but isn't very quiet.

[mrvette]

That's only partially true.

Any of the appliance manufacturers could build a fridge, dishwasher, or whatever that would last forever. It would be easy. Nobody would buy them.

Look at a refrigerator from 30 years ago. I hear people all the time say how awesome it is, how it lasts forever, how it was built right, etc. Now look at what it actually DOES, how much energy it uses to do it, etc. That 30 year old fridge uses a MASSIVE amount of energy, cools unevenly, is noisy as hell, has half the actual storage space in the same size frame, and all sorts of other things that the new models are much better at. Material alone would drive the price through the roof. You want a sealed system that will last forever, double the copper. You want 28+ cubic feet of room inside with all of those massive components, you better have a big ass kitchen. You want a compressor that lasts 40 years, double the price. Quiet, large storage room, efficient,... all of these things that people want and that drive the market directly conflict with a massive overkill robust system. They aren't built to fail. They are built to sell. There is a big difference.

In recent times, GE has used absolutely as many US sourced parts as possible. They are built in the US (Kentucky, Indiana, Alabama, Tennessee). They are built with the best (and most American) components in the consumer range of appliances. What happened? The company didn't make crap as profit and was just sold to Electrolux because Americans simply don't want to pay $50 more for it.


As a side note, none of them are built with cheaper components than LG. :leaving:

Sounds like what happened to RCA in electronics 30-40 years ago.....

:issues: Got so bad they licensed out all their designs, and maybe 1/2 dzn. others copied them up and sold for 1/2 price.....Curtis Mathis is the most prominent of them.....Zenith fought and tried and cried with the feds to shut down this unfair competition and patent stealing.....but the feds did not care, it was about selling the liberal agenda over the new method, so to be done cheap, and so who reads a newspaper anymore?? the 80 y/o guy across the street??? I not read a paper in 30 years now.....

:sadangel::dance::leaving:

[DAB]

That's only partially true.

Any of the appliance manufacturers could build a fridge, dishwasher, or whatever that would last forever. It would be easy. Nobody would buy them.

Look at a refrigerator from 30 years ago. I hear people all the time say how awesome it is, how it lasts forever, how it was built right, etc. Now look at what it actually DOES, how much energy it uses to do it, etc. That 30 year old fridge uses a MASSIVE amount of energy, cools unevenly, is noisy as hell, has half the actual storage space in the same size frame, and all sorts of other things that the new models are much better at. Material alone would drive the price through the roof. You want a sealed system that will last forever, double the copper. You want 28+ cubic feet of room inside with all of those massive components, you better have a big ass kitchen. You want a compressor that lasts 40 years, double the price. Quiet, large storage room, efficient,... all of these things that people want and that drive the market directly conflict with a massive overkill robust system. They aren't built to fail. They are built to sell. There is a big difference.

In recent times, GE has used absolutely as many US sourced parts as possible. They are built in the US (Kentucky, Indiana, Alabama, Tennessee). They are built with the best (and most American) components in the consumer range of appliances. What happened? The company didn't make crap as profit and was just sold to Electrolux because Americans simply don't want to pay $50 more for it.


As a side note, none of them are built with cheaper components than LG. :leaving:

we laugh at these home improvement/search shows, buyer spots the kitchen, blurts out that they'd just have to replace everything with stainless....psst....it's the same guts, just the shell is pretty and costs more. :slap:

[The Cripp]

:waiting: :popcorns:

[RedLS1GTO]

we laugh at these home improvement/search shows, buyer spots the kitchen, blurts out that they'd just have to replace everything with stainless....psst....it's the same guts, just the shell is pretty and costs more. :slap:

Sometimes a stainless appearance on an otherwise cheap unit makes it all of a sudden fly off the shelves at a larger $$ margin. A lot of times there are some additional fit/finish parts changed as well but in many cases, the guts truly are the same.

On the flip side of that, some units that look similar in appearance have COMPLETELY different components that make a huge difference in performance. The condenser and compressor in refrigerators is a perfect example. From the outside, they look incredibly similar with only a few seemingly insignificant features different, but it's night and day when you pull them apart.

[Bill]

we laugh at these home improvement/search shows, buyer spots the kitchen, blurts out that they'd just have to replace everything with stainless....psst....it's the same guts, just the shell is pretty and costs more. :slap:

Personally, I don't care for the stainless look. Appliances, like walls, were made to be white. Stainless steel appliances are the "harvest gold" and shag carpeting of this time. People decades from now will wonder what the Hell people were thinking.

[DAB]

all our appliances are black. haven't you heard? black is beautiful. we also saved about $1000 over the same ones in stainless. Mrs. DAB liked that aspect too.

[onedef92]

all our appliances are black. haven't you heard? black is beautiful. we also saved about $1000 over the same ones in stainless. Mrs. DAB liked that aspect too.

All our kitchen appliances are black, too. :kimblair:

[DukeAllen]

That's only partially true.

Any of the appliance manufacturers could build a fridge, dishwasher, or whatever that would last forever. It would be easy. Nobody would buy them.

Look at a refrigerator from 30 years ago. I hear people all the time say how awesome it is, how it lasts forever, how it was built right, etc. Now look at what it actually DOES, how much energy it uses to do it, etc. That 30 year old fridge uses a MASSIVE amount of energy, cools unevenly, is noisy as hell, has half the actual storage space in the same size frame, and all sorts of other things that the new models are much better at. Material alone would drive the price through the roof. You want a sealed system that will last forever, double the copper. You want 28+ cubic feet of room inside with all of those massive components, you better have a big ass kitchen. You want a compressor that lasts 40 years, double the price. Quiet, large storage room, efficient,... all of these things that people want and that drive the market directly conflict with a massive overkill robust system. They aren't built to fail. They are built to sell. There is a big difference.

In recent times, GE has used absolutely as many US sourced parts as possible. They are built in the US (Kentucky, Indiana, Alabama, Tennessee). They are built with the best (and most American) components in the consumer range of appliances. What happened? The company didn't make crap as profit and was just sold to Electrolux because Americans simply don't want to pay $50 more for it.


As a side note, none of them are built with cheaper components than LG. :leaving:

While I agree, frankly I don't give a rat's ass if it's not hippy approved, and uses more energy, if it works better and lasts longer. I've got 30-50 year old appliances going strong and I've had cheap imported junk that failed within a year or two.

Plus, I just like to be contrary :D

[RedLS1GTO]

While I agree, frankly I don't give a rat's ass if it's not hippy approved, and uses more energy, if it works better and lasts longer.

That's the point... the older ones may last longer, but they certainly don't work better. Not even close. It's way more than hippy-green, although that does play a role.

The 2 easiest examples to point out are size and noise. Take a look at the storage room in an old fridge vs. a new one. The new one looks absolutely enormous. Take a closer look and you'll notice that the outer dimensions are exactly the same as they have always been. Noise is the other easy thing to point out.

Dishwashers? A 15 year old model isn't even remotely close to the same performance of the newer, more advanced models. (Yes, there are many models that are no better than 15 years ago).

[mrvette]

The fridge that came with this house was fairly new and I made it convey on the offer, it was 'almond'.....that puke yellow, when we redid the kitchen, I bought like 3 cans of appliance spray paint, and shot the damn thing white....to match the stove and d/w.......it's not really bleach white, but close enough for .gov work......


it makes ice and keeps food cold.....CASE CLOSED@!!!!!

:hurray::lol:

[CeeFour]

It never fully fills with water just as you see in the video. You're the second person to suggest it may be water inlet valve/solenoid vs the pump.
The video displays the very start of the wash cycle when it should be filling with water. I have another minute or two of footage from that same video that I edited because it just showed the same behavior.

U.M.

Try filling the tub of the dishwasher manually with a gallon milk jug of water (don't overfill it - no higher than the bottom of the front door seal) and take another video to see whether it sprays. If it sprays & spins & drains normally, it almost has to be a water inlet issue.


While I agree, frankly I don't give a rat's ass if it's not hippy approved, and uses more energy, if it works better and lasts longer. I've got 30-50 year old appliances going strong and I've had cheap imported junk that failed within a year or two.

Plus, I just like to be contrary :D

It ticks my wife off that I keep fixing our 20+ year old appliances.

I found our current front load washer sitting in the trash out by the road. I found a quarter jammed in the pump impeller. We've been using it for the past 6 years with no other failures. Our dishwasher was found out in the trash too.

[LisaJohn]

Can you wash the dishes in the sink until you remodel the kitchen?

[Milton Fox]

Cant your wife wash the dishes in the sink until you remodel the kitchen?

:seasix:

[Uncle Meat]

So after some additional trouble shooting I was able to determine the problem which was two-fold, a bad diverter valve and a leak where the diverter valve shaft enters the pump housing. The diverter valve wasn't closing all the way which caused the pump to push most of the water out the drain versus up through the spray arm.

So I ordered a new pump since it's all one unit. $115 from Amazon Prime for a genuine GE redesigned/upgraded pump assembly. Arrives Friday.

U.M.

[Jeff '79]

You just saved yourself a pile of dinero... :seasix:

[LATB]

I probably would have trashed the pos and picked up an inexpensive replacement to cover until the full remodel.

[DAB]

I probably would have trashed the pos and picked up an inexpensive replacement to cover until the full remodel.

Yup. You can find new ones for under 200. That's what we did years ago. Used it for 2 years, donated it after nice new one was in place. $8/month.

[onedef92]

You just saved yourself a pile of dinero... :seasix:

He kicked the can down the road a little further, no doubt.