So, Realtors...

[RedLS1GTO]

How long until they are deemed completely useless and go the way of the dodo for residential sales?

We just closed yesterday on the sale of our house in Louisville. We did a for sale by owner, closing and paperwork was done by a lawfirm for a few bucks. The buyers had a realtor working with them but mainly due to the fact that they were foreign and apparently had ZERO idea how things worked.

With people looking on the internet rather than relying on a realtor to show them properties, I don't see the need at all. Listing a house is incredibly simple. Everything about it is simple. I think as more and more people begin to see just how easy it really is, paying realtors tens of thousands of dollars to do it is going to end very quickly.

Had the buyers not brought a realtor into the mix (who actually did absolutely nothing), we would have let it go even cheaper. Thanks to selling it ourselves, we were able to cut out the asinine realtor fees, lower the price to slightly below the comparable properties for sale, get it sold almost immediately and still walk away with more in our pockets in the end. :dance:

[DAB]

Do all the required disclosures? Make sure your buyers were qualified?

[RedLS1GTO]

Do all the required disclosures? Make sure your buyers were qualified?

:yesnod:

Yep. It was very easy to figure out what was needed. The lawfirm we used had a simple checklist of what we must have as well as some optional things. The required disclosures were all easy to get online.

[DAB]

realtors have the MLS all locked up to themselves. want to get on that, better talk to a realtor. since most homes are searched via the internet, if you aren't being seen, you aren't being bought. i don't see realtors going away anytime soon. they've created a closed system, and they are the gate keepers.

[Stangkiller]

I will say this though, I walked through probably 100 houses before I bought my current home. So you'd still have to figure out how to get people tours of empty homes before their job can be entirely eliminated.

[lspencer534]

I will say this though, I walked through probably 100 houses before I bought my current home. So you'd still have to figure out how to get people tours of empty homes before their job can be entirely eliminated.

This is just one of the reasons Realtors aren't going away. Buying a house without being able to see it, looking at comparables, having advice on prices and current mortgage rates are almost insurmountable obstacles for the average person. OP, you sound like you had definite set ideas on what you wanted to get for your home, and you got it. Not so with many sellers/buyers.

[RedLS1GTO]

realtors have the MLS all locked up to themselves. want to get on that, better talk to a realtor. since most homes are searched via the internet, if you aren't being seen, you aren't being bought. i don't see realtors going away anytime soon. they've created a closed system, and they are the gate keepers.

That's it exactly. Most homes are searched on the internet these days and most sites don't need MLS to put them up. I had no problem getting it listed on Zillow (where it was seen) and quite a few other sites. ...for free. It had plenty of views and a lot of interest. Not just a sign in the yard.

It WAS a closed system. Not so much anymore.

Zillow: Real Estate, Apartments, Mortgage & Home Values in the US (http://www.zillow.com/)

I will say this though, I walked through probably 100 houses before I bought my current home. So you'd still have to figure out how to get people tours of empty homes before their job can be entirely eliminated.

We showed our own. When we were out of the area, a neighbor did it for us.

This is just one of the reasons Realtors aren't going away. Buying a house without being able to see it, looking at comparables, having advice on prices and current mortgage rates are almost insurmountable obstacles for the average person. OP, you sound like you had definite set ideas on what you wanted to get for your home, and you got it. Not so with many sellers/buyers.

Again, very easy. got a call, set up a time, walked them through. In looking for homes, we went to quite a few others being sold by owner. No need for a realtor to walk me around.

Comparables and coming up with a price was easy. Go to Zillow or any of a bunch of other sites, search recent sales, and it gives you numbers. It's not complicated math. You can get a very good idea what it's worth. In buying, if you look at a lot of houses as you said, I guarantee you know within a small window what a reasonable price is.

We actually talked to 2 different realtors initially. Both of them said our asking price should be way lower than we actually got. They look out for themselves and themselves only. If they give a low number, it theoretically sells faster and they get a payday faster.

Current mortgage rates? Not sure why you would need a realtor for that. Look online. You can get a very good look at current rates in about 5 minutes.

[boracayjohnny]

That's cool. Shouldn't have been too much for the lawyer since he was doing doc fees. I'm guessing much less than five to seven percent. :seasix:

[RedLS1GTO]

That's cool. Shouldn't have been too much for the lawyer since he was doing doc fees. I'm guessing much less than five to seven percent. :seasix:

The lawyer fees from start to finish, including all paperwork totaled about .1%. Sirius.

[boracayjohnny]

The lawyer fees from start to finish, including all paperwork totaled about .1%. Sirius.

Wow, that's definitely a vote for doing it yourself. :seasix:

[RedLS1GTO]

Wow, that's definitely a vote for doing it yourself. :seasix:

I think the only reason people don't do it more often is that they don't realize how easy it really is.

... yet.


DAB is right. Until now, the only way to get a house seen was to get it listed and distributed through MLS. The internet has opened the gates to get a by owner listing out there and seen by the masses. Recent sales, values, comps, etc that in the past relied on a lot of legwork, going through records, and a lot of time are now easily accessible from your own couch in a matter of seconds.

[Millenium Vette]

How long until they are deemed completely useless and go the way of the dodo for residential sales?

We just closed yesterday on the sale of our house in Louisville. We did a for sale by owner, closing and paperwork was done by a lawfirm for a few bucks. The buyers had a realtor working with them but mainly due to the fact that they were foreign and apparently had ZERO idea how things worked.

With people looking on the internet rather than relying on a realtor to show them properties, I don't see the need at all. Listing a house is incredibly simple. Everything about it is simple. I think as more and more people begin to see just how easy it really is, paying realtors tens of thousands of dollars to do it is going to end very quickly.

Had the buyers not brought a realtor into the mix (who actually did absolutely nothing), we would have let it go even cheaper. Thanks to selling it ourselves, we were able to cut out the asinine realtor fees, lower the price to slightly below the comparable properties for sale, get it sold almost immediately and still walk away with more in our pockets in the end. :dance:

Your deal went well, many do not. That is where a good Realtor earns the money. Notice, I said good, most are piss poor or average at best when it comes to negotiations. Also, most buyers don't want to negotiate toe to toe with the seller, they are afraid to. Your buyers did have a Realtor involved, so it was not a true FSBO.

[RedLS1GTO]

...so it was not a true FSBO.

The "sale" part was 100% by owner. We listed it, advertised it, showed it, did the contract work, negotiated it, and everything else.

The choice to have a representative was on them. He didn't add anything of value as far as I am concerned. The ONLY thing he did was make a few phone calls and speak to us on their behalf. He did absolutely nothing that they couldn't have done on their own very easily had they so chosen.

We kept our price by 3% higher to make up for it due to their choice to do so.


Your deal went well, many do not. That is where a good Realtor earns the money.

What types of things are you talking about? I am asking as a 100% serious question, not being a smartass. I have bought and sold houses... I don't know what could go wrong that I couldn't handle just as well on my own.

I have now been on both sides of a "by owner" deal. When I bought the house that was just sold it was 100% by owner on both sides. I had no problem negotiating, getting paperwork, etc.

[Norm]

I have dealt with some really good agents that know their stuff, covered all the angles, did their homework and I didn't have to do shit. Then, a few I had were useless, lazy, wouldn't return calls, got rid of them tout-de-suite (toot- sweet).

[RedLS1GTO]

I have dealt with some really good agents that know their stuff, covered all the angles, did their homework and I didn't have to do shit.

I guess the question is a simple one... how much $$ is that worth to you?


It was a little work on our end, but what we saved is enough to fund a season of racing. :D

[Dave]

Again, very easy. got a call, set up a time, walked them through. In looking for homes, we went to quite a few others being sold by owner. No need for a realtor to walk me around.


How many calls did you get from realtors telling you that you could net MORE money if you paid them?

[...Whitepower...]

If you can't beat me join them.

I paid $30k in commissions in 2014.

I will be becoming a licensed agent this year.

In 2018 I will be looking to set up my own brokerage.

[Norm]

I guess the question is a simple one... how much $$ is that worth to you?

Quite a bit, still working while purchasing a home out of state is not that easy. I would email my agent 5 or so MLS listings a week, he would set up the visits for our once a week trip over, and spend the whole day looking. We did this for 5 months, about once a week on average, until we found the right place for us.

Yeah it was a big pain in the ass, but my agent earned his commission, most would have told me to go pound sand after about 20 or so viewings, but this guy was tenacious, vowed to find us a home, and he did. I would recommend him in a heartbeat. :seasix:

[mrvette]

realtors have the MLS all locked up to themselves. want to get on that, better talk to a realtor. since most homes are searched via the internet, if you aren't being seen, you aren't being bought. i don't see realtors going away anytime soon. they've created a closed system, and they are the gate keepers.

BULLSHIT!!!! stick a sign on the lawn, with your Phone # and call it a day, IF you are in a typical burb that is, people ride around and look, see the sign even IF with an agent, they wright it down, and call later.....

ALL else is BS......

NOW when coming here to Florida I went to realtors and so got listings, that were total crap, mainly flooding zones....wood rot, crap....then I headed across the St. Johns river into higher ground and found this joint on a hillside.....spent about 75 by time I moved in and fine....NOW having remarried, wife needed some improvements....another maybe 20 spent....

just wish we could still been renting the back space, collecting some 4-500 a month.....over 14 years.....

:issues:

[LATB]

Real Estate Brokerage is not much different than any other service provider. You can do the work yourself...or employ others to do the work for you.

Yes, many agents...and even many brokers are not worth the effort/costs. But the same can be said for auto mechanics...plumbers...lawn care...car wash...laundry...etc...etc...etc...

Realtors and car sales folks get the brunt of hate, because a home and car are most folks' largest investments.

[DAB]

when we were looking for a place in NM, our initial screening was on the web, if your house wasn't on MLS, i didn't see it.

if you are buying locally, and can drive around, then yes, you may happen across a FSBO, but if you are buying from out of town, those houses for sale will be invisible to you.

we sold Mrs. DAB's house by ourselves long ago - to neighbors 5 houses up who wanted to move up to a larger model. got several calls from realtors telling us we should list with them to get the best price. :shrug: we sold it for the most that model had sold for up to that point in time in that neighborhood. another neighbor, a realtor, advised we list for 280k. we sold it for 300k. :smash:

[Millenium Vette]

The "sale" part was 100% by owner. We listed it, advertised it, showed it, did the contract work, negotiated it, and everything else.

The choice to have a representative was on them. He didn't add anything of value as far as I am concerned. The ONLY thing he did was make a few phone calls and speak to us on their behalf. He did absolutely nothing that they couldn't have done on their own very easily had they so chosen.

We kept our price by 3% higher to make up for it due to their choice to do so.




What types of things are you talking about? I am asking as a 100% serious question, not being a smartass. I have bought and sold houses... I don't know what could go wrong that I couldn't handle just as well on my own.

I have now been on both sides of a "by owner" deal. When I bought the house that was just sold it was 100% by owner on both sides. I had no problem negotiating, getting paperwork, etc.

You paid a 3% commission to a Realtor, so it was not a FSBO. How do you know whether or not the Realtor was of any value to the buyer? That would be a question only the buyers are qualified to answer.

As far as problems that can pop up:

liens on title nobody expected
home inspections finding problems
house not appraising for the sale price for a mortgage
sidewalk inspection
FHA requirements regarding the property that are not met



Those are just a few. While you had no problem negotiating and making sure everything went smoothly, most sellers and buyers are not as well prepared as you were. Just the fact that you priced your house to sell quickly means that you are better at selling than most individuals. And many Realtors, for that matter.

:cert:

[RedLS1GTO]

How many calls did you get from realtors telling you that you could net MORE money if you paid them?

Non-stop. F**kers come out of the woodwork.

Oddly enough, we got a significant amount more than either of the 2 (highly recommended) realtors said we should even START for an asking price.

Quite a bit, still working while purchasing a home out of state is not that easy.

That is a situation in which I could see a realtor being a useful.

[MrPeabody]

How has Lars resisted posting in this thread?

[DAB]

How has Lars resisted posting in this thread?

Real Estate Brokerage is not much different than any other service provider. You can do the work yourself...or employ others to do the work for you.

Yes, many agents...and even many brokers are not worth the effort/costs. But the same can be said for auto mechanics...plumbers...lawn care...car wash...laundry...etc...etc...etc...

Realtors and car sales folks get the brunt of hate, because a home and car are most folks' largest investments.

:slap:

[Sea Six]

How has Lars resisted posting in this thread?

He hasn't.


http://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/1307052-post20.html

[MrPeabody]

He hasn't.


http://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/1307052-post20.html

Missed it. Should have known.:lol:

[Sea Six]

He's now LATB, not LarsAtTheBeach.

Might have been why you missed it the first time.

[Fastguy]

A realtor is a paid negotiator and salesperson. Without them, most sales wouldn't go through. People are too emotional. In a tough market, FSBO is extremely difficult and time consuming.
I am glad yours went smooth, most dont.

[mrvette]

Non-stop. F**kers come out of the woodwork.

Oddly enough, we got a significant amount more than either of the 2 (highly recommended) realtors said we should even START for an asking price.



That is a situation in which I could see a realtor being a useful.

During that April week I spent here in Jax....looking around during a long lasting rain storm/front....I noted the drainage problems in areas of town, listened to friends and noted river front prices, and inland prices....and so looked at the flooding issues, and heeded my Father's advice...NEVER buy a house at bottom of the hill and so the search through various flood areas...

found this house for some 30' elevation, and paid the selling commission of 3% and called it quits....

[Dave]

Non-stop. F**kers come out of the woodwork.

Oddly enough, we got a significant amount more than either of the 2 (highly recommended) realtors said we should even START for an asking price.





Right.
Why should a realtor work to get you the most for your house?
Sell a 300k house for 275k, the sale happens that much quicker and they're out a measly $750 vs your 25k.

I went off on one of those a**holes that called when I sold my last house.
You're going to net me MORE money? Exactly how are you going to do that?
"Well... I'm going to do this and that..."
No, how much are you going to list my house for?
"nothing different than you're asking now really"
So that gives me $XXX I have to pay for commission. Or I can negotiate that much and STILL come out ahead of hiring you, right?

[LATB]

How has Lars resisted posting in this thread?

As noted. I posted. And my post is correct. :seasix:

[LATB]

The market determines value. Brokers/agents provide a service.

It's really that simple.

[mrvette]

The market determines value. Brokers/agents provide a service.

It's really that simple.

ASSuming the service is really needed....

It took the previous owner 2 YEARS to sell his house to me, who greatly appreciated the concrete back yard and the triple pay 27' deep garage in back....what a wonderful setup.....

when it was time to sell, upon high buck tax increases, and health crap, I gave it ways.....and it took me 2 year to sell it.....all the bitches hated no GRASS in the back yard.....

Eff em.....stupid.....go mow the lawn, bitch.....

:issues::issues:

[Dave]

The market determines value. Brokers/agents provide a service.

It's really that simple.

Incorrect.
If a realtor "shows" me with various comps that my house should list for $200k when it really could sell for $220k, the market is not going to bring me an extra $20k.

[LATB]

Incorrect.
If a realtor "shows" me with various comps that my house should list for $200k when it really could sell for $220k, the market is not going to bring me an extra $20k.

Sorry. I am 100% correct.

Market forces determine value. Not realtors.

[Fastguy]

Not everyone needs a realtor, I actually sold my last house without one, but as someone who has closed thousands of real estate transactions, I can tell you that good realtors are worth their weight in gold. Most FSBO transactions end up listing with a broker, 98%. When someone comes in with a FSBO transaction, I cringe because a large percentage of them turn into a shitshow.

[RedLS1GTO]

You paid a 3% commission to a Realtor, so it was not a FSBO. How do you know whether or not the Realtor was of any value to the buyer? That would be a question only the buyers are qualified to answer.

Technically, you are correct. I won't argue that. With that said, they paid VERY close to the full asking price and everything else was about as straight forward as it gets. I'm not sure exactly what the realtor could have possibly done for them other than making a few very expensive phone calls. From the seller's side, we did it all. Last time, from the buyer's side, I did it all. Both too ksome research, but neither was difficult.

Those are just a few. While you had no problem negotiating and making sure everything went smoothly, most sellers and buyers are not as well prepared as you were. Just the fact that you priced your house to sell quickly means that you are better at selling than most individuals. And many Realtors, for that matter.

:cert:

Key part bolded. If you go in half-assed, I'm sure you could turn it into a shit show pretty quickly. My main point is that with the resources that are now available, mainly online, it was very easy to be prepared so that none of those things you listed happened to us.

I think as time goes on, it will become more and more common.

If you have a piece of crap, falling down house, leaking roof, major inspection problems, etc... yea, I'm sure it would be more difficult.

[Dave]

Sorry. I am 100% correct.

Market forces determine value. Not realtors.

If market forces determine value, realtors determine price.
Price != value

[Sea Six]

Incorrect.
If a realtor "shows" me with various comps that my house should list for $200k when it really could sell for $220k, the market is not going to bring me an extra $20k.

Swing and a miss.

[LATB]

If market forces determine value, realtors determine price.
Price != value


Listing price is what a seller asks. Sale price is what a buyer ultimately pays. The closed deal represents the value in the market.
Any real estate brokerage involvement represents a service provider.