HOA Constrictor: Couple Sued For Parking Their Own Pickup Truck In Own Driveway [Archive]

ApexOversteer

01-20-2015, 12:38am

A homeowners' association has filed a lawsuit seeking to bar a resident in the town of Manlius from parking his own pickup truck in his driveway.

The Kimry Moor Homeowners Association has filed a lawsuit against residents David and Arna Orlando in Onondaga County Supreme Court because they are parking their 2014 black Ford 150 pickup in their driveway at 511 Kimry Moor, just outside the village of Fayetteville.

The association wants an injunction to stop the couple from parking their pickup in the driveway of their home.

The association cites its regulations, which limits parking in driveways only to "private, passenger-type, pleasure automobiles," according to the lawsuit. The association owns all the driveways in the development, according to court filings. The Orlandos could park their pickup in their garage, but not in their driveway.

David Orlando said the pickup is his own personal. passenger vehicle and not a commercial vehicle of any sort.

"This is absolutely absurd,'' he said.

David Orlando also said other people are parking pickups in their driveway. This past week a Syracuse.com/Post-Standard reporter saw a full size pickup with cap, a large van and a sports utility vehicle parked other driveways in Kimry Moor.

Orlandos' lawyers said in court papers that the Orlandos' pickup is a "private, passenger-type, pleasure automobile" and therefore is in compliance with the rules. Orlando and his lawyer, Tom Cerio, said the pickup is registered with the state as a "passenger vehicle" and not as a commercial vehicle. And the Orlandos do not have commercial drivers' licenses.

"This is a silly rule,'' said Tom Cerio, who is representing the Orlandos. "It's fair to say the association is definitely overreaching. And they are enforcing this rule for a personal use vehicle, not a commercial vehicle."

Paul Curtin, lawyer for the Kimry Moor Homeowners' Association, said the case "is a matter of restrictive covenants, and interpretation of those covenants."

Curtin said a pickup "is not a passenger vehicle by definition." Therefore, whether the truck is registered as a commercial vehicle or not is "not germane'' to the case, he added. The Orlandos don't own their driveway and need to comply with the rules, he said.

The lawsuit was filed in August 2013 and is still in discovery with depositions to come next, Cerio said. He declined further comment because this is a pending court case.

The Orlandos have lived in Kimry Moor, which has 84 single-family homes off Mott Road near the village of Fayetteville, for about six years. The residents in the development own their homes, but the common areas, which include the driveways, are owned by the homeowners' association, according to the bylaws.

Every lot has two parking spaces, including one space in a garage.

The Orlandos continue to park the truck in the driveway even after being notified they were in violation of the rules, court papers said.

Court papers also said the association has "impeded and interfered with the Orlandos' "quiet use and enjoyment" of their property. The Orlandos are seeking an unspecified amount of damages, which would help them pay for having to hire a lawyer to represent them in this legal proceeding.

Homeowners' associations typically charge a fee and then provide maintenance, lawn mowing, landscaping, plowing and other services for residents. They typically have rules and restrictions designed to keep neighborhoods attractive.

Other rules in the Kimry Moor association include not hanging laundry outside or on a clothesline; no parking of boats, trailers; no tents or shacks; no unusual noise or odors should come from a residence and holiday decorations must be displayed "in a subdued and proper manner."

David Orlando said he feels it's a shame taxpayers will have to pay for the court's time to hear this case.

"It's ridiculous,'' he said.

Cliffs:

HOA rules say driveways are only for "private, passenger-type, pleasure automobiles" and orders homeowner to cease parking pickup truck in driveway.

Couple says pickup is a "private, passenger-type" vehicle and is registered as such.

HOA says "see you in court."

Sea Six

01-20-2015, 2:55am

David Orlando said he feels it's a shame taxpayers will have to pay for the court's time to hear this case.

I can't figure out why taxpayers' dollars have anything to do with the price of tea in China on this matter.

Dave

01-20-2015, 6:17am

I can't figure out why taxpayers' dollars have anything to do with the price of tea in China on this matter.

Because the taxpayers pay the salary of those in the court system who have to moderate this crap

Barn Babe

01-20-2015, 6:27am

Bomb-diggity thread title!

Yes, HOA's stink. We have one, but it's hand written on a sheet of notebook paper. :lol: it's all obvious stuff.

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 7:07am

I lived in a subdivision with a HOA for the last 4 years. We're in the process of buying/building a new home. HOA? won't even look at it. Never, ever f**king EVER again will I live in a place where some self empowered assf**ks think they have the power to tell me what I can do in and around my own home.

86RAG

01-20-2015, 7:29am

:iagree: :seasix:

VatorMan

01-20-2015, 7:43am

Fastguy

01-20-2015, 8:35am

HOA laws restricting vehicles are meant to keep commercial vehicles out. They don't want lettered vans, box trucks, ladder rack trucks, etc. This is a ridiculous interpretation of the bylaw.

Mike Mercury

01-20-2015, 8:43am

Paul Curtin, lawyer for the Kimry Moor Homeowners' Association, said the case "is a matter of small people... now feeling taller."

fixt

Hoog

01-20-2015, 8:45am

Our HOA only allows 1/2 ton pick-ups without commercial signage; all other trucks are verboten. Which meant that for several years my ratty assed '72 Chevy C10 was cool, but my neighbor's like new F250 wasn't. Looking around the neighborhood you can see the rule obviously isn't enforced, but it is still on the books.

All be damned if you have a clover growing in an expansion joint of your driveway, though...

mrvette

01-20-2015, 8:58am

Group of town houses on top of the hill at rt 28 and Shady Grove, behind the grocery store.....has an HOA and used to give us crap about parking our sailboat in one of our spaces, and parking in a guest spot if we got back too late to park it at my folks' house.... this all in Monkey Co. Faryland.....

I bet those town houses are slums now.....

but can't complain paid 55k for it, moved out 2 years later selling for 75k, that put 20k down on the second house the ex is now selling for about 500k....

:sadangel::shots:

TheHammer

01-20-2015, 9:15am

I've been living in a HOA hood for years now. Wasn't a fan of the HOA as I updated and renovated my home and backyard over the years.

Now, the hood is aging a bit, people are moving out and renting their homes. Some have rented to anybody that can afford it. Thanks to the HOA, it's kept the rental tenant rif raf out of the hood.

Cybercowboy

01-20-2015, 9:32am

HOA laws restricting vehicles are meant to keep commercial vehicles out. They don't want lettered vans, box trucks, ladder rack trucks, etc. This is a ridiculous interpretation of the bylaw.

Yeah, because then it would be like my neighbors across the street. They have a 3-car garage. How many of their vehicles/trailers are parked there? Zero. It's packed full of "antiques" (actually junk) that they peddle at various flea markets I think. When all their stuff is parked in their relatively short driveway, there will be two enclosed trailers, one open flat trailer, three SUV's, and if all their sons are home three shitty cars parked in the street. It's lovely. :lol:

Then there are their seemingly monthly "garage sales" which is just them selling their "antiques" right there in their driveway. They park all their stuff all over the neighborhood to get them out of the way of their eager customers. They asked me once if they could park some stuff in my driveway. I told them I kinda need my driveway to get in and out of my garage, so that would be negative ghost rider.

GS Ragtop

01-20-2015, 9:54am

HOA laws restricting vehicles are meant to keep commercial vehicles out. They don't want lettered vans, box trucks, ladder rack trucks, etc. This is a ridiculous interpretation of the bylaw.

:iagree:

I'd be upset of our HOA Board took this type of action -- they are seriously underestimating litigation costs.

Lawsuits are for large corporations and rich people. HOA's are neither...

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 9:54am

When searching for a house here in MontCo, we looked at a place in a local HOA. As we were getting out of my truck, the realtor asked if I was willing to give up my truck and I said no. She told me that this HOA didn't allow trucks- so we left.

F**king stupid. Whoever came up with that rule needs to be punched in the face. Whoever enforces it needs to given a high-five. In the face. With a chair.

Our HOA only allows 1/2 ton pick-ups without commercial signage; all other trucks are verboten. Which meant that for several years my ratty assed '72 Chevy C10 was cool, but my neighbor's like new F250 wasn't. Looking around the neighborhood you can see the rule obviously isn't enforced, but it is still on the books.

F**king stupid. Whoever came up with that rule needs to be punched in the face. Whoever enforces it needs to given a high-five. In the face. With a chair.

Yeah, because then it would be like my neighbors across the street. They have a 3-car garage. How many of their vehicles/trailers are parked there? Zero. It's packed full of "antiques" (actually junk) that they peddle at various flea markets I think. When all their stuff is parked in their relatively short driveway, there will be two enclosed trailers, one open flat trailer, three SUV's, and if all their sons are home three shitty cars parked in the street. It's lovely. :lol:

Then there are their seemingly monthly "garage sales" which is just them selling their "antiques" right there in their driveway. They park all their stuff all over the neighborhood to get them out of the way of their eager customers. They asked me once if they could park some stuff in my driveway. I told them I kinda need my driveway to get in and out of my garage, so that would be negative ghost rider.

What does this have to do with a guy parking an F-150 in his driveway? A shitty neighbor is a shitty neighbor. Trying to legislate them out of existence is about as stupid as legislating what kind of soft drinks I can drink or how much salt I can put on my food.

What person is so goddamn self important that they think they have the right to tell somebody else what kind of car they can drive? Are you serious? Every 1 of them needs to be kicked repeatedly in the genitals before they reproduce. The argument that it somehow hurts the value or makes the area look bad is absolutely ignorant. If you want to keep big commercial vehicles out of your hood... fine. A personally driven pickup truck? Go f**k yourself. This is nothing more than a bunch of power trip, self righteous, worthless pieces of sh*t whose life most likely amounts to absolutely nothing of value looking for a way to make themselves feel important.

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 9:57am

:iagree:

I'd be upset of our HOA Board took this type of action -- they are seriously underestimating litigation costs.

Lawsuits are for large corporations and rich people. HOA's are neither...

The individual dipsh*ts pushing this won't pay a dime for litigation. It will come out of whatever they undoubtedly charge everybody for the privilege of living nearby. They just want to feel important or have some personal beef with the guy. There is absolutely no other reason that somebody would legally pursue something so stupid.

Did I mention that I hate HOAs?

DAB

01-20-2015, 10:19am

don't get me started on Montgomery Village in MD and the Kettler slums....

Cybercowboy

01-20-2015, 10:21am

What does this have to do with a guy parking an F-150 in his driveway? A shitty neighbor is a shitty neighbor. Trying to legislate them out of existence is about as stupid as legislating what kind of soft drinks I can drink or how much salt I can put on my food.

What person is so goddamn self important that they think they have the right to tell somebody else what kind of car they can drive? Are you serious? Every 1 of them needs to be kicked repeatedly in the genitals before they reproduce. The argument that it somehow hurts the value or makes the area look bad is absolutely ignorant. If you want to keep big commercial vehicles out of your hood... fine. A personally driven pickup truck? Go f**k yourself. This is nothing more than a bunch of power trip, self righteous, worthless pieces of sh*t whose life most likely amounts to absolutely nothing of value looking for a way to make themselves feel important.

I think you need to drink another cup of coffee or smoke a joint or something, and calm the f**k down. Did I say I wanted them banned from doing what they are doing? No. But...BUT it does show that without some sort of standards or rules in place there will always be that guy who just shits all over f**k all because f**k you that's why. I think the HOA going after this guy parking a nice new pickup in his driveway is stupid as hell, but I would think that would go without saying. If you read what I posted, it was in response to Fastguy's comment, and didn't directly address the OP because that's what I felt like doing.

6spdC6

01-20-2015, 10:27am

Not much of that HOA bullshit in this area. It’s only in a few small subdivisions.

I for one would never like to live under that kind of system. I live on a lake and many places the shore line is Beach Association property and you see all the many problems and nonsense caused by those tin horn dictators.

My lake property (5 acres) is not in any kind of HOA/beach association. It’s nice to rule your own property. Of course we are still subject to laws (like everyone else) passed by the town, county, state, but compared to HOA nonsense all is well.

Mike Mercury

01-20-2015, 10:47am

http://www.usrw.org/images/HAO%20humor1.jpg

http://www.ccfj.net/HOAmonopoly.jpg

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 11:12am

I think you need to drink another cup of coffee or smoke a joint or something, and calm the f**k down. Did I say I wanted them banned from doing what they are doing? No. But...BUT it does show that without some sort of standards or rules in place there will always be that guy who just shits all over f**k all because f**k you that's why. I think the HOA going after this guy parking a nice new pickup in his driveway is stupid as hell, but I would think that would go without saying. If you read what I posted, it was in response to Fastguy's comment, and didn't directly address the OP because that's what I felt like doing.

I pretty obviously can't stand HOAs, for a multitude of reasons. I feel sorry for the guy here that he has to deal with such dumbassery. As far as I'm concerned, any person who feels like they are somehow important enough to decide what someone else can do on their own property beyond the written law is a joke. There is no person on this planet that gets to tell me... or anybody else... what kind of car they can and cannot drive. Any person who is so self important that they think they possess that power under the guise of making a neighborhood look better or for any other self centered reason is quite simply a pathetic pile of shit.

Even WITH standards in place, my comment still stands. A shitty neighbor is a shitty neighbor. You could write a thousand rules and they'll still find a way to be a shitty neighbor. There will ALWAYS be that guy. If you want to make some basic rules to make a "uniform" neighborhood, great, but some self appointed gods of the neighborhood coming up with a 200 page book of rules and running around threatening to sue everybody who doesn't follow them to the letter doesn't change that guy at all.

You quoted this: HOA laws restricting vehicles are meant to keep commercial vehicles out. They don't want lettered vans, box trucks, ladder rack trucks, etc. This is a ridiculous interpretation of the bylaw.

I still don't see what the neighbors you described have to do with commercial trucks being restricted. :shrug:

Dave

01-20-2015, 11:29am

HOA laws restricting vehicles are meant to keep commercial vehicles out. They don't want lettered vans, box trucks, ladder rack trucks, etc. This is a ridiculous interpretation of the bylaw.

Which is idiotic.
The guy that makes a living with his van isn't welcome as a resident, but the same guy is welcome when it comes to providing services to people in the HOA.

e.g. Don't park that van with lettering in your driveway, but the Comcast truck can sit at the curb every day with no problem.

Makes perfect sense.

DAB

01-20-2015, 11:36am

Which is idiotic.
The guy that makes a living with his van isn't welcome as a resident, but the same guy is welcome when it comes to providing services to people in the HOA.

e.g. Don't park that van with lettering in your driveway, but the Comcast truck can sit at the curb every day with no problem.

Makes perfect sense.

they, the HOA, don't want working stiffs, blue collar guys, 'ruining' their pristine idea of what a neighborhood should be. just quiet, black sock wearing, doctors, lawyers, maybe one or two engineers are desired. complete bullshit. some of the nicest folks i've met and lived next to work with their hands. they make stuff.

Kettler was of this mindset. yeah, no crappy neighbors there....worn out Hondas on blocks...but they aren't trucks that are kept running so the guy can make a living, just welfare cases that get by on vouchers and can't afford to keep their car running....give me a break.

Truck Guy

01-20-2015, 11:44am

The hate for HOA~Nazi's is very strong :lol: (I agree!)

lander

01-20-2015, 11:45am

An HOA is a club...you can choose to join it, or not.

Some people here don't seem to understand that.

To the OP's subject, obviously the HOA should get bent. The fact that there are others in the neighborhood with similar type vehicles precludes them from enforcing that particular rule due to the precedent of the other vehicles already being allowed to remain. They will lose based upon that alone.

VatorMan

01-20-2015, 11:49am

don't get me started on Montgomery Village in MD and the Kettler slums....

That's the one. Glad I didn't buy there.

VatorMan

01-20-2015, 11:53am

The hate for HOA~Nazi's is very strong :lol: (I agree!)

As an HOA president, I agree. :lol: However, my HOA is only for the common driveway to the 7 houses. In other words, we collect dues for snow removal, maintenance, taxes and insurance. That's it. No occupant over site at all.

Truck Guy

01-20-2015, 11:57am

As an HOA president, I agree. :lol: However, my HOA is only for the common driveway to the 7 houses. In other words, we collect dues for snow removal, maintenance, taxes and insurance. That's it. No occupant over site at all.:yesnod: We have an HOA for the 125 homes in our subdivision.
All they do is contract landscaping, snow removal and insurance for the common wetlands area. Our fee is only $200.00 a year. :seasix:
The original HOA board 26 years ago when the homes were first built tried to pull the "We're in charge" crap and there was a massive revolt.
The officers ran for their lives and were never heard from again... :lol:

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 11:59am

An HOA is a club...you can choose to join it, or not.

Some people here don't seem to understand that.

Oh. So I can live in a neighborhood and "not join" the HOA?

DAB

01-20-2015, 12:05pm

Oh. So I can live in a neighborhood and "not join" the HOA?

nope. it runs with the land, so you buy the house, you join the club. don't want to be part of the club, don't buy the house. buy elsewhere.

Cybercowboy

01-20-2015, 12:36pm

Here's my take on all this. If you want to live like you are in an unincorporated area, free to do what you want with your land, park your cars and commercial vehicles in any fashion you see fit, put up ugly fencing, multiple non-matching outbuildings, weeds everywhere, well there are plenty of places for you to live. But to do that in a neighborhood with otherwise everyone else not doing that, makes you that guy.

Even if there aren't specifically restrictions on doing something, doesn't mean it should be done. Think about your neighbors and stop being so self-centered. Just sitting here in my office I can look across a couple of houses over and see an ugly blue trampoline that's totally unlevel and ragged, that sits just outside the dude's privacy fence. Why didn't he put it inside his privacy fence? Because then they could see it from their house, that's why. They don't want to look at it, but don't a flying f**k if everyone else does. Why? Because f**k you that's why.

There's no specific law that says I have to keep my landscape nice, dead or damaged trees cleared out, any number of things. But I'm always going to go a little above and beyond what's expected of me as a good neighbor, because it's the right thing to do. Right now there is a tree that is some on my property, and some on my next-door neighbor's. We've jokingly referred to it as our shared tree. Nice size hickory. But now it's splitting and will have to be dealt with. I know that neighbor will gladly split the cost to take care of it, and I also know I can get it done cheap because I have a friend who likes chopping trees down. But it's nice to know that I won't have to battle a neighbor over something like that.

Aerovette

01-20-2015, 12:49pm

Aerovette

01-20-2015, 12:57pm

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 12:58pm

nope. it runs with the land, so you buy the house, you join the club. don't want to be part of the club, don't buy the house. buy elsewhere.

I knew the answer... I don't consider it a "club" when living in a certain area means you must be a part of it.

Kerrmudgeon

01-20-2015, 12:58pm

lander

01-20-2015, 1:18pm

Oh. So I can live in a neighborhood and "not join" the HOA?

Nope, you don't have to live in the neighborhood. :seasix:

Find one that doesn't have an HOA since you so vehemently oppose them. Simple enough.

I was smart enough, before I bought our house in a neighborhood with an HOA, to get the bylaws and read them. You don't want an HOA...fine...DON'T LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS ONE.

Problem solved.

lander

01-20-2015, 1:19pm

I knew the answer... I don't consider it a "club" when living in a certain area means you must be a part of it.

You really can't be this inane can you?

Aerovette

01-20-2015, 1:36pm

Another FYI.

There are rules that the HOA, although they list them, are absolutely powerless to enforce. It is out of their jurisdiction and they can do nothing. In a friend's neighborhood a guy was testing this fact and true enough the County was the only one that could enforce the particular law...HOWEVER, he was sued and LOST, for breach of contract with the HOA in that he signed the deed restriction and violated one of the rules. They may not have the power to enforce the particular rule but do have the power to enforce the contract as a signed agreement.

Mike Mercury

01-20-2015, 1:40pm

The HOA is probably trying to prevent this type of site in their neighborhood with an uncovered box, commercial or private.....:bilmem:
I don't agree with it, but I know where it came from I think.....

http://gogreenamericatv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Fordscrapintruck2.jpg

I hear ya; but... I've always lived in rural townships/counties, never within any city limits.

And every place either had covenents, deed restrictions, zoning laws, ... already on the books that would prohibit that sort of thing.

DAB

01-20-2015, 1:43pm

no love for Fred Sanford? he was cool.

Aerovette

01-20-2015, 1:46pm

no love for Fred Sanford? he was cool.

Lamont you big dummy !

Iron Chef

01-20-2015, 2:14pm

A few thoughts from a former HOA President (some echoed by others here):

1) Caveat Emptor! OBTAIN and READ a copy of the Deed Restrictions BEFORE you buy. Make an informed decision as to whether or not this neighborhood is for you.

2) HOA's are only as good as the people running them. There were similar restrictions within our covenants, but we were not going to waste time and money splitting hairs with neighbors. My board was made up of all professional people. We had jobs, families, and most of all, common sense. We practiced servant leadership and ours was not to challenge and stroke our egos but to make the neighborhood a pleasant place to live.

3) THIS:

Even if there aren't specifically restrictions on doing something, doesn't mean it should be done. Think about your neighbors and stop being so self-centered.

4) My last neighborhood had no deed restrictions. And it was in a far west suburb. People there had no problems with putting benches, trampolines, play sets in their front yards. Trailers with and without crap stacked in them. Motor homes on the sides of the houses. I didn't really care to see it, so what were my options? Live with it or move. I moved. Simple.

Want to go over to your neighbors house and punch them in the face? Go right ahead hero. YOU will be the one on the short end of the stick. YOU will be the one hiring an attorney to handle your assault charge. I have better things to do than spike my blood pressure over things like that. No one likes a hothead. Or as my father used to say: "You can catch more flies with honey than with flypaper."

Cybercowboy

01-20-2015, 2:15pm

Just an FYI to the HOA haters ( I am in that club by the way), every potential homeowner in my subdivision, PRIOR TO PURCHASING, was able to review the Rules and Restrictions.

I don't like HOA's either, in general. Our neighborhood seemed to have the best of both worlds. Everyone who built a home here was handed a several page document that outlined the restrictions and what was to be expected both from the builder, the owner, and the developer. Not that many things, but they were all common sense and I agreed with them. Set backs from the street had to be a certain distance or greater, no outbuildings that were not of the same siding and roofing/roof pitch of the home (meaning you just can't pick up a shed at Lowes Depot and drop it in your back yard.) Privacy fences had to be 6 feet inside your property line, no chain link, your house had to have Tamko architectural shingles, at least an 8-12 roof pitch (many have 12-12, I have a 10-12), minimum 1750 sq. ft. living space, minimum 2 car garage, no livestock (we're in the city limits for one thing), and about a dozen other minor things.

Everyone who built here followed those rules except one house built on spec, which was definitely not up to par, but the people who built it all died in a boat that filled with carbon monoxide while they slept, right after it was finished. Even so the person who first lived there did their best. But then that house and some others were sold and nobody told those people about "the rules" (or so they claimed) and the shit started. First came the chain link fencing in a couple of back yards. Then came the sheds. Then came people who, seeing that, took it one or two steps more. This is when some people in our neighborhood began pushing back. Not me, I didn't get involved, but some other very reasonable neighbors talked to some of these people, gave them the rules, and asked them to fix some of the more egregious things. The developer had long ago moved on and wanted nothing to do with anything, and he never did put in the rest of the street lighting that we were promised.

I don't know the details but some of those people just went ape shit and flat out refused, saying "sue me", but nobody did. For crying out loud you'd think you'd be embarrassed about being such a crappy neighbor, but nope. Why? Because f**k you that's why.

I'd say it's about 5-1 ratio of good neighbors and sub-par neighbors here, which isn't too bad I guess. And by many standards even the sub-par neighbors would look like angels in some neighborhoods around here. :lol:

island14

01-20-2015, 2:36pm

New Hut Owners Association Rules

No live stalk should be allowed in other peoples yards, just because your neighbor has grass in his yard and you do not.. does not make it ok for you to leave your goat or cow in his yard.

Yeah I know the grass is getting tall but I don't like cowshit in my yard...

And keep your damn chickens in your own yard too dummy!

island14

01-20-2015, 2:38pm

Do they have MHOA's? :island14:

All trailers should be skirted, and no more than two cars are allowed on blocks in your front yard.. :lol:

HellCat

01-20-2015, 2:51pm

The real issue isn't stupid HOA rules. The issue is that the buyer agrees to abide by the HOA rules when he purchases the house/condo. Later the buyer feels he can violate the rules he signed and agreed to follow. Never could figure why some people are so offended when they knew the rules before they purchased their home.

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 3:09pm

Nope, you don't have to live in the neighborhood. :seasix:

Find one that doesn't have an HOA since you so vehemently oppose them. Simple enough.

I was smart enough, before I bought our house in a neighborhood with an HOA, to get the bylaws and read them. You don't want an HOA...fine...DON'T LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS ONE.

Problem solved.

:rofl:

Don't worry. I won't be polluting the landscape of your pristine neighborhood with my disgusting GMC.

I was also smart enough to read the bylaws in my previous neighborhood. It didn't stop D-bags from trying to impose all sorts of crap that wasn't specifically covered whenever they felt like it...

Suing someone with a personal F-150 based on a clause clearly intended to prevent commercial vehicles would be a fine example of that.

Lesson learned. As I said in my very first post:

Never, ever f**king EVER again will I live in a place where some self empowered assf**ks think they have the power to tell me what I can do in and around my own home.

I guess I really should be thanking HOAs rather than hating them. They serve as a great indicator of places that I don't want to live anyway. If you think you can force people to be good neighbors with books of rules and the threat of lawsuits, good luck. I have no desire to live anywhere near people who think like that.

I would much rather have a neighbor with a fence I didn't like than a bunch of idiots who get their panties wadded up and threaten to sue me because of the kind of car I choose to drive or what color flowers my wife plants out front. :seasix:

lander

01-20-2015, 3:47pm

You had your lunch money stolen from you as a child, didn't you?

Cybercowboy

01-20-2015, 4:17pm

Wonder what's in his garage?

Dan Dlabay

01-20-2015, 4:20pm

I would never live in a HOA. I like having control over my place that I paid for.:cert:

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 4:27pm

You had your lunch money stolen from you as a child, didn't you?

Nope.

Just don't like self important idiots who feel the need to try to tell me what to do. :shrug:

You ran to the teacher whenever someone was mean to you as a child, didn't you?

Cybercowboy

01-20-2015, 4:35pm

I would never live in a HOA. I like having control over my place that I paid for.:cert:

My sister got fined several times for not having her garbage cans back in the garage by whatever time. You set them out, leave for work, come back home after having dinner, and you get fined. You have to come home first and put them up or the neighborhood will melt!

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 4:43pm

My sister got fined several times for not having her garbage cans back in the garage by whatever time. You set them out, leave for work, come back home after having dinner, and you get fined. You have to come home first and put them up or the neighborhood will melt!

Clearly this evildoer must be banished from the neighborhood.

GentleBen

01-20-2015, 5:13pm

When I lived in a HOA community in Southern Arizona it was split under four different CCRs. CCR #1 was the first established and had the loosest rules and the biggest lots. CCR #2, where I lived, was next and had a few more restrictions but nothing significant and had the next largest lots. CCRs #3 and #4 were almost simultaneous and had numerous rules and regs that were not necessary but were apparently rammed through by some of the more virulent HOA Nazis.

As the community was nearing completion the local water company that had owned the land and had set up the community wanted out of any oversight. They therefore told the owners in the four CCR areas that they were bailing out and that we should consider having one CCR to govern the entire area.

The power-mad HOA stormtroopers in CCR #3 promptly thought that meant that everyone had to conform to their CCRs as they were in force in two of the four areas. Those of us in CCR #1 and #2 promptly told them where to head in causing their knickers to get twisted into knots.

They decided that they would take us to court to enforce their will. We collectively hired an attorney and established in court that as the CCRs were grandfathered there was nothing they could do to enforce their rules on us. . . and had a court judgement which paid for our attorney fees.

Kerrmudgeon

01-20-2015, 5:23pm

LATB

01-20-2015, 5:30pm

Nope.

Just don't like self important idiots who feel the need to try to tell me what to do. :shrug:

By "self important idiots" do you mean the developer who wrote the CCR's? The City/County/State comprehensive development plan who requires them? or the HOA board who is required by law to enforce them?

TIA

Dave

01-20-2015, 5:30pm

Just an FYI to the HOA haters ( I am in that club by the way), every potential homeowner in my subdivision, PRIOR TO PURCHASING, was able to review the Rules and Restrictions. Not forced to comply. However, once the deal is done and you sign off on those restrictions, you have signed a contract. You agree to follow the rules, they agree to enforce them. With regard to other neighbors breaking the rules, that is between that neighbor and the HOA, not you. It is not about "fair" it is about the rules. Some speeders get a ticket, some get a warning...BOTH broke the law and the coin could land on either side.

I was a member of my HOA and it offered a lot of insight and it taught me what gutless worthless SOBs they all are. BUT I signed on the line so I follow the rules. I wish everyone around me did but just because they don't, doesn't me I won't. I am not going to be that guy, but I damn sure put up with 3 of them very close by.

By "self important idiots" do you mean the developer who wrote the CCR's? The City/County/State comprehensive development plan who requires them? or the HOA board who is required by law to enforce them?

TIA

Therein lies the issue. What DO the documents say?

"Commercial vehicle"
Lots of HOAs prohibit "commercial vehicles", yet the governing documents do nothing to define what constitutes such a vehicle. So you end up with a bunch of "former high school class presidents that never fulfilled their potential" on the HOA board seeking to define what THEY believe is a "commercial vehicle".

Thus you end up with this sort of idiocy where pickup trucks are banned because the HOA board has the authority to interpret the written regulations and issue further rules that support them.

09CTSV

01-20-2015, 5:42pm

I lived in on HOA in VA Beach and never again. When I went looking for my own house the one stipulation I had was no HOA. I watched the asshats turn themselves into demi gods forcing their will and interpreting the by laws how they saw fit.
Our one good friend was sued for having the wrong color on their downspouts. Funny thing is the builder built his house like that, had photo's and all sorts of evidence when they went to trial. The HOA lost and lost big, almost bankrupted them. Four months later their daughter had her 16th Birthday party. We reserved the pool, hired a life guard and had everything set. We picked up the key, set up the part and a half hour before the guests were to arrive some clown from the board shows up and tells us there was a mistake and we had to leave.
The confrontation went on for almost an hour and the police were called. Turns out this board member wanted the pool and forgot to reserve it. We were forced to leave but we had the last laugh. They locked the pool gates because of no life guard, a rule in the HOA agreement. He tried to get the lifeguard to stay but he was a friend of the family and told them to piss off.
Two months later after a nice legal battle the HOA again almost filed bankruptcy and all of the Board members were thrown out. Two of them actually lost their houses after being personally sued by people.

Never again do I want to live in a HOA.

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 5:53pm

By "self important idiots" do you mean the developer who wrote the CCR's? The City/County/State comprehensive development plan who requires them? or the HOA board who is required by law to enforce them?

TIA

In this case specifically, whatever moron decided to say that an F-150 shouldn't be allowed in the neighborhood.

I understand and have no problem whatsoever with the developer and construction aspect of it. Houses with certain construction features, so far from the road, etc. I can even understand to a certain extent rules for maintaining your lawn and things of that nature although not nearly to the extent that most seem to go.

The idiots would be anybody who feels the need to take it way beyond the realm of common sense, be it the developer or some person afterwords who takes it to that level. Fining somebody for the garbage can scenario above? "Required by law" to sue somebody because they have a personal F-150 in their driveway? GMAFB. That's f**king stupid.

LATB

01-20-2015, 5:54pm

Thus you end up with this sort of idiocy where pickup trucks are banned because the HOA board has the authority to interpret the written regulations and issue further rules that support them.

And the courts have the authority to rule on the interpretation. :seasix:

LATB

01-20-2015, 6:01pm

In this case specifically, whatever moron decided to say that an F-150 shouldn't be allowed in the neighborhood.

I understand and have no problem whatsoever with the developer and construction aspect of it. Houses with certain construction features, so far from the road, etc. I can even understand to a certain extent rules for maintaining your lawn and things of that nature although not nearly to the extent that most seem to go.

The idiots would be anybody who feels the need to take it way beyond the realm of common sense, be it the developer or some person afterwords who takes it to that level. Fining somebody for the garbage can scenario above? "Required by law" to sue somebody because they have a personal F-150 in their driveway? GMAFB. That's f**king stupid.

Any neither you or I have reviewed the HOA documents. Or the home/truck in question.

It appears from your posts in this thread, that you have limited experience with subdivision development.

As others have pointed out...if the documents are beyond your view of common sense, it would be advisable not to become an owner in the particular development. :seasix:

ApexOversteer

01-20-2015, 6:03pm

So what about the that fact that other residents are parking pickups and large vans in their driveways?

Mike Mercury

01-20-2015, 6:04pm

And the courts have the authority to rule on the interpretation. :seasix:

sure; but it shouldn't have to be in the courts to begin with. Who has the time to get involved with a lawyer - everytime a HOA prick trys to force people into their socialistic dream world?

How about avoiding this by stopping the nonsense to begin with?

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 6:10pm

And the courts have the authority to rule on the interpretation. :seasix:

How do you miss the fact that the pathetic part is that he has to go to court in the first place.

A couple year legal battle because somebody soesn't like his truck? Meh. no biggie.

Any neither you or I have reviewed the HOA documents. Or the home/truck in question.

It appears from your posts in this thread, that you have limited experience with subdivision development.

As others have pointed out...if the documents are beyond your view of common sense, it would be advisable not to become an owner in the particular development. :seasix:

I don't have to have experience developing subdivisions to know that somebody being sued because he drives an F-150 is absolutely idiotic.

Aerovette

01-20-2015, 6:10pm

Therein lies the issue. What DO the documents say?

"Commercial vehicle"
Lots of HOAs prohibit "commercial vehicles", yet the governing documents do nothing to define what constitutes such a vehicle. So you end up with a bunch of "former high school class presidents that never fulfilled their potential" on the HOA board seeking to define what THEY believe is a "commercial vehicle".

Thus you end up with this sort of idiocy where pickup trucks are banned because the HOA board has the authority to interpret the written regulations and issue further rules that support them.

EDIT: There is ALWAYS a dispute process...always. Go in with logic and leave your anger outside and more than likely you will have no problem with your truck. :seasix:

Our subdivision defines a commercial vehicle as

One with signage for a business
or
Not used as a personal vehicle
or
Attached to a trailer
or
A trailer
or
Having more than two axles
or
Equipped in a manner that makes it a "purposed" vehicle and that purpose being one of a commercial enterprise.

My truck, nor any of my neighbor's trucks would be in violation HOWEVER, the jackass at the end of my street that brings his MiniCat home on a trailer each evening IS in violation but he sucks on the HOAs horn so he gets away with it.

island14

01-20-2015, 6:17pm

All this crap makes me just want to just say feck it.. and go live on an island somewhere...

DAB

01-20-2015, 6:31pm

All this crap makes me just want to just say feck it.. and go live on an island somewhere...

hmmm....you might be onto something there....

me, i live in the mountains. our covenants fit on one page of paper. we self enforce, or not.

one item is no trailers, you have to build a real house on a foundation. well, one neighbor lives in a trailer (about a 24 footer), does his laundry in a shed. doesn't bother me, let it be.

LATB

01-20-2015, 6:37pm

How do you miss the fact that the pathetic part is that he has to go to court in the first place.
Legal document. Only way to challenge is in court.
A couple year legal battle because somebody soesn't like his truck? Meh. no biggie.
Again, we have not reviewed the HOA docs or the truck in question.
I don't have to have experience developing subdivisions to know that somebody being sued because he drives an F-150 is absolutely idiotic.
No one is being sued for driving an F150. :island14:

LATB

01-20-2015, 6:47pm

sure; but it shouldn't have to be in the courts to begin with. Who has the time to get involved with a lawyer - everytime a HOA prick trys to force people into their socialistic dream world?

How about avoiding this by stopping the nonsense to begin with?

Change the government approved comprehensive plan, that developers are required to follow. Good luck with that. :seasix:

Mike Mercury

01-20-2015, 7:17pm

How do you miss the fact that the pathetic part is that he has to go to court in the first place.

http://www.tim-yvonne.com/gif/bell1.gif

I don't have to have experience developing subdivisions to know that somebody being sued because he drives an F-150 is absolutely idiotic.

My father built over 70 homes, and commercial buildings as well. HOA's are "optional" in almost every municipality across the US. Oh, many jurisdictions may mandate some sorta homeowners "group"; but it doesn't have to go to the socialistic extreme as HOA's are.

It's amazing how far some go to defend this schit.
I almost laugh when the apologists claim that "without a HOA, it would be tents and broken-down trailers". Give me the state, county, and township of a property, and I bet good money there's covenants or zoning codes that cover that... already on the books.

The problem then? People are too meek/wussy to call and report on their own. They leave the tough effort to some busy-body prick; to be the strong person they wish they were.

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 8:09pm

No one is being sued for driving an F150. :island14:

Change the government approved comprehensive plan, that developers are required to follow. Good luck with that. :seasix:

You sound like the perfect guy to run a HOA.

... and answers like that are a perfect example of why I will avoid them at all costs.

Dave

01-20-2015, 8:15pm

EDIT: There is ALWAYS a dispute process...always. Go in with logic and leave your anger outside and more than likely you will have no problem with your truck. :seasix:

Our subdivision defines a commercial vehicle as

One with signage for a business
or
Not used as a personal vehicle
or
Attached to a trailer
or
A trailer
or
Having more than two axles
or
Equipped in a manner that makes it a "purposed" vehicle and that purpose being one of a commercial enterprise.

My truck, nor any of my neighbor's trucks would be in violation HOWEVER, the jackass at the end of my street that brings his MiniCat home on a trailer each evening IS in violation but he sucks on the HOAs horn so he gets away with it.

And in MOST of the HOAs where I have seen "commercial vehicles" referenced, the definition that you cite above is created by the board whole the restrictions merely state "commercial vehicles". Those rules/interpretations can change with the weather if the board so chooses.

And the courts have the authority to rule on the interpretation. :seasix:
Tie up the courts because a bunch of amateur, inexperienced people on an HOA board can't make a reasonable interpretation of plain english. Brilliant.

LATB

01-20-2015, 8:23pm

You sound like the perfect guy to run a HOA.

... and a perfect example of why I will avoid them at all costs.

You would be wrong. And you assume. I make no apologies for poorly managed HOA's. Or poor HOA board decisions.

LATB

01-20-2015, 8:26pm

And in MOST of the HOAs where I have seen "commercial vehicles" referenced, the definition that you cite above is created by the board whole the restrictions merely state "commercial vehicles". Those rules/interpretations can change with the weather if the board so chooses.

Not legally they can't.

Tie up the courts because a bunch of amateur, inexperienced people on an HOA board can't make a reasonable interpretation of plain english. Brilliant.

What you see as reasonable, another may disagree. That's why we have legal documents. And courts to enforce them.

RedLS1GTO

01-20-2015, 8:58pm

You would be wrong. And you assume. I make no apologies for poorly managed HOA's. Or poor HOA board decisions.

Wrong? What am I wrong about? I assumed nothing.

I said (based on your posts in this thread) that you seem like the perfect guy to run one.

Dave

01-20-2015, 8:58pm

What you see as reasonable, another may disagree. That's why we have legal documents. And courts to enforce them.

Not legally they cant??? They most certainly can. "The board may enact rules and regulations consistent with the documents" or something of the sort is in every set of HOA documents I've seen.

"We read the documents, interpreted them, and here are the rules that the board established, consistent with the governing documents" DONE.

Next board wants to revise them? Simple majority vote of the board. DONE

LATB

01-20-2015, 9:02pm

Wrong? What am I wrong about? I assumed nothing.

I said (based on your posts in this thread) that you seem like the perfect guy to run one.

Please point to my post that qualifies me as "the perfect guy to run one".

Aerovette

01-20-2015, 9:59pm

http://www.tim-yvonne.com/gif/bell1.gif

My father built over 70 homes, and commercial buildings as well. HOA's are "optional" in almost every municipality across the US. Oh, many jurisdictions may mandate some sorta homeowners "group"; but it doesn't have to go to the socialistic extreme as HOA's are.

It's amazing how far some go to defend this schit.
I almost laugh when the apologists claim that "without a HOA, it would be tents and broken-down trailers". Give me the state, county, and township of a property, and I bet good money there's covenants or zoning codes that cover that... already on the books.

The problem then? People are too meek/wussy to call and report on their own. They leave the tough effort to some busy-body prick; to be the strong person they wish they were.

Negative Ghost Rider. The state name - Texas, County - Harris. There is no zoning. Without an HOA, you could put a taco stand in your front yard and valet parking in the backyard.

Aerovette

01-20-2015, 10:13pm

Aerovette

01-20-2015, 11:02pm

Not all HOA's suck. Some blow.

fixt :lol:

Norm

01-21-2015, 12:00am

When house hunting for our retirement home, we had a pros and cons list, the very first thing above anything else on the cons list........no HOA.....:D

Mike Mercury

01-21-2015, 12:15am

Negative Ghost Rider. The state name - Texas, County - Harris. There is no zoning. Without an HOA, you could put a taco stand in your front yard and valet parking in the backyard.

you are making this too easy.
Even with no zoning, a taco is a "prepared food". State health laws in food preparation cover every square inch of the state. They must get a permit and pass inspection before selling the first taco. You can't circumvent state health laws; all a community can do is add additional restrictions - built upon the state minimums. Even mobile food vendors have to follow the state health laws.

That area of Texas is mostly floodplain. If this type of crap is indeed happening, it's due to lack of enforcement ... or nobody cares to report it.

ApexOversteer

01-21-2015, 1:00am

you are making this too easy.
Even with no zoning, a taco is a "prepared food". State health laws in food preparation cover every square inch of the state. They must get a permit and pass inspection before selling the first taco. You can't circumvent state health laws; all a community can do is add additional restrictions - built upon the state minimums. Even mobile food vendors have to follow the state health laws.

That area of Texas is mostly floodplain. If this type of crap is indeed happening, it's due to lack of enforcement ... or nobody cares to report it.

At no point did he claim this taco stand was operating outside health department regs, only that there weren't zoning ordinances on the book in the area.

If I put a taco stand on my lawn, and the health department gives me a 100 score, I still have to tear it down if zoning enforcement comes calling and I'm running a commercial business in a location zoned residential.

Dave

01-21-2015, 6:19am

Here is a tidbit that may help the OP. There is a GREAT possibility that you can park your offending vehicle in the street and they can do nothing. If you are NOT in a gated community, the HOA cannot take jurisdiction over the municipality. The streets belong to the municipality, and therefore only the police can take action. Example : I can have a car with expired tags in the street and the HOA can call the police on me, but they cannot take action against me themselves because they have no jurisdiction. Because your truck is street legal, parking it in the street is not in violation of any law and is not ruled by the HOA.

Incorrect, unless you're in a state that has prohibited parking restrictions on public streets.

Many HOAs have restrictions and the authority to create rules & regulations on what happens within their boundaries, streets included, that apply to all members. If there are rules pertaining to street parking, then it's no different than parking in your driveway or on your yard.

However, being a public street, they can't regulate what non-members do. So the guy a block over can park his semi-truck in the HOA on a public street and they can't do a thing about it. Which makes public-street restrictions contentious and quite silly.

RedLS1GTO

01-21-2015, 7:24am

Please point to my post that qualifies me as "the perfect guy to run one".

No single post. Just a general observation of your mentality towards the subject.

HOAs apparently need a leader who will pursue any and all infractions and who thinks it is acceptable to stand your ground all the way to the point of taking these things to a court of law, regardless of how absolutely stupid and inconsequential. HOAs operate based on the fear of retribution if the rules are not followed.

You clearly seem to think it's a matter for the courts:

"The courts have the authority to rule on the interpretation."

"What you see as reasonable, another may disagree. That's why we have legal documents. And courts to enforce them."

On the other hand, there is absolutely no way in hell that I would have any part of suing someone because they put up a fence that was nonconforming to some neighborhood standard. :seasix:

Hoog

01-21-2015, 7:33am

Several years ago, our HOA tried to "claim" governance over on street parking within the community along with other codifications aimed at bringing the non-gated portion in line with the gated section. The residents brought a representative from the county to a board meeting where he explained politely that they should let Orange County worry about parking on county property.

RedLS1GTO

01-21-2015, 7:47am

Until this thread I never actually made the connection between politics and HOAs. It really is pretty amusing to look at the HOA discussion and translate it to a larger scale.

I'm guessing that for the most part, the small scale views of HOAs translate to the large scale political views.

In my case, the very short summary is that I don't want people telling me to do and I don't believe that it is my (nor the government's) place, whether I agree with them or not, to decide what others can and can't do. The obvious exception is in actions that cause DIRECT harm to others.

... and my neighbor having a fence I don't like is not "harm".

VatorMan

01-21-2015, 7:59am

Hoog

01-21-2015, 8:11am

Another one....

Someone on the HOA board didn't like his neighbor's privacy fence, and decided there was a clarification required in the R&Cs. The proposal was to make everyone paint the outside of their fence either white, or the body color of the owners home. Meaning, the guy behind me who didn't put up a fence would have a grey side, a beige side, and a coral colored side all facing his house.

When I explained this to the board, they said that all fences could be painted white.

"Have you people ever seen an all white privacy fence? Think about that for a second."

"Oh, yeah. We see your point."

Instead, they added a line about, "must be maintained or painted regularly". Hell, I attend church "regularly".

mrvette

01-21-2015, 8:53am

don't get me started on Montgomery Village in MD and the Kettler slums....

Interesting.....what's going on?? I set here scratching my ass, having been here now some 18 years almost.....

Kettler was a builder.....that's all I remember...some apartments he built went section 8???

What new about Monkey Village??:waiting::cert:

mrvette

01-21-2015, 9:07am

Or as my father used to say: "You can catch more flies with honey than with flypaper."

Funny, we he from Ohio?? I remember my father saying the same thing, but used the term Vinegar instead of flypaper.....

My Dad was from Ohio, Cleveland.....:lol::cert:

RedLS1GTO

01-21-2015, 9:31am

Where do you think these insane laws and rules come from ? Some asshole in the past decided to push the envelope of common sense or decency.

You ever go past a row of houses and see one that is Just Damn-wtf what the F was He thinking ? HOA's exist because of assholes.

So for the betterment of the community as a whole, the answer is to put a ridiculous amount of restriction and legislation on ALL because of a very few number?

Going back to my previous comment about political similarities, the scale may be different, but that sounds a whole lot like the most common arguments that point to a mass-murdering sociopath as a reason to justify implementing restrictive gun laws. I believe cooool called laser engraved bullets "common sense", did he not?

Almost all who push for asinine gun laws do so because some asshole in the past decided to push the envelope of decent humanity.

In addition, EXACTLY like gun control, people start by asking for "common sense" regulations and end up taking it to what is an asinine extreme as viewed by the people they wish to regulated.

Other than the obvious difference in scale, I really don't see the difference. :shrug:

Mike Mercury

01-21-2015, 9:41am

Where do you think these insane laws and rules come from ? Some asshole in the past decided to push the envelope of common sense or decency

true,

but everywhere I've lived (never within city limits BTW)... there's been state/city/county/township laws already covering these situations.

I am not against a housing complex being built with HOA governing; choice is something we should cherish. The part that "gits" me is the misinformation often spoken in an attempt to justify a HOA.

VatorMan

01-21-2015, 9:49am

Mike Mercury

01-21-2015, 9:51am

At no point did he claim this taco stand was operating outside health department regs, only that there weren't zoning ordinances on the book in the area.

Who would buy land in a neighborhood and put a "health department legal" restaurant (with money at risk) where it is sure to fail? Taco "stand" is a reference to squatters uncovering the back of their old pickup and selling prepared food from the back. I know exactly what was being referenced.

HOA's are being justified - in pretend situations - that would never exist in real life. If the problem is lack of enforcement, then a HOA in that situation would have no power over it either.

Take all the HOA's; 5% are probably warranted. The other are just power hungry little Frenchmen - wanting to feel like they are fully grown.

VatorMan

01-21-2015, 10:14am

.

HOA's are being justified - in pretend situations - that would never exist in real life. If the problem is lack of enforcement, then a HOA in that situation would have no power over it either.

Take all the HOA's; 5% are probably warranted. The other are just power hungry little Frenchmen - wanting to feel like they are fully grown.

Once again, the HOA didn't seek you out. You bought into it. This is just like people that buy next to an airport and then bitch about the noise.

Cybercowboy

01-21-2015, 10:16am

The difference is said asshole will cost you big $$$ if you live anywhere near him because of his "freedom".

I guess I have a sense of uniformity coming from the military. I knew what I was in for when I signed up. That's what we've been saying. When you sign up to join an HOA, you can't be pissed if they hold up the rules and regs you put your name on. They didn't seek you out, YOU joined.

And most likely you joined because you really liked the neighborhood. :lol:

Like I said a few times in this thread, we don't have an HOA per-se. Just the agreement all those who built here were given (and signed) and was supposed to be passed on when selling their house. One guy had two big travel trailers (5th wheels) parked in his driveway with several people living in them. You can't do that! Another built a dog pen essentially in his front yard on the edge of his property, right next to his next-door neighbor's driveway entrance and mail box. The dogs were vicious and barked constantly. He didn't want the pen in his fenced in back yard because that would make his pool less pleasant. Many complaints about this. His dogs got out a time or two and it was suspected that one killed a small dog although nobody saw it happen.

One 4th of July weekend the owners left for the long weekend and it was 100F and hotter every single day. The dogs kicked their water bowls over and dehydrated and died. That took care of that, and they were shamed into removing the ugly dog pen.

Then there was the person who thought it would be a great idea to put a fence up in his front yard. Nope. You can't do that. He was stopped before it got too far. Why fence his front yard? He had two dogs that didn't get along, so he figured he'd keep them apart that way. Brilliant!

All these people should have bought a home in the various unincorporated areas all around this area. Literally a few blocks away! They could go bananas doing their respective hillbilly things. But no! They liked our neighborhood because it's nice, the property values stay good, and everyone seems to maintain their shit. But it's the meanies here who are Nazis and are mean to them when they try something ridiculous.

One final thing. All privacy fences are supposed to be 6' from the property line. The reason is that it should be the property owner's job to take care of the yard right by the fence. However, it became kinda an unwritten thing that if you just ask, you might be able to build right on the property line. Such was the case of the person behind me when he put his pool in. I could have been a prick - I know many people would have told this guy no way, because it wasn't necessary. He wanted his pool to be right behind his house instead of a bit over to the side where there was room for a much larger pool if he wanted, instead of shoehorning it in where he wanted it. Heck, he even asked if he could buy a 20' strip of my back yard! I looked at him like he was an insect specimen. Later he told me "Good news! I found out my pool has to be 13' away from the property line because of the power lines! Guess I won't be buying that strip from you after all." Yes, he was that guy.

Where I'm going is, I let him break the rules because it only affects me. I can live with his fence right on my property line, heck it would have been even a good thing if I ever planned on a fence of my own (which I don't.)

This same neighbor was a real piece of work. Another time he cut down a tree in the (then) empty lot next to me because it blocked the view from his house to the one he was building 200' away. This lot was owned by the neighbor next door to him, it was her tree. She confronted him about it and he lied and said I did it! I came home and she launched at me, and it took a few minutes to calm her down. We loved that tree. Every year a big owl would raise a family there, it was really cool. Plus I don't even own a chain saw. About this time another neighbor comes over and tells her, shaking his head, that he actually saw dickwad cut down her tree (oh, and he just left it laying there...) She apologized profusely. I walked over to his house, he wouldn't answer the door. Finally I saw him and told him quite calmly that if he ever pulled something like that again I'd beat his ass. Period.

It's guys like this that make people want to enforce whatever rules there are, otherwise they just keep pulling more and more asshole moves.

racer313g

01-21-2015, 10:28am

EDIT: There is ALWAYS a dispute process...always. Go in with logic and leave your anger outside and more than likely you will have no problem with your truck. :seasix:

Our subdivision defines a commercial vehicle as

One with signage for a business
or
Not used as a personal vehicle
or
Attached to a trailer
or
A trailer
or
Having more than two axles
or
Equipped in a manner that makes it a "purposed" vehicle and that purpose being one of a commercial enterprise.

My truck, nor any of my neighbor's trucks would be in violation HOWEVER, the jackass at the end of my street that brings his MiniCat home on a trailer each evening IS in violation but he sucks on the HOAs horn so he gets away with it.

At the risk of further derailing this enlightening conversation......:lol:

By your subdivision's definition of a commercial vehicle:

NOT a commercial vehicle-
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff425/racer313g/truck/nocommercial.jpg

MAGICALLY a commercial vehicle-
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff425/racer313g/truck/photo.jpg

OR:

Perfectly OK in subdivision driveway-
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads21/redneck%2Btruck1344661313.jpg

Hardworking guy that drives his company provided van home....NOPE, park it somewhere else.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/123/393788467_b689002922.jpg

I've had some shitty neighbors, and I'd take them every time over a bunch of self-important assholes masquerading as an HOA. :waiting:

Cybercowboy

01-21-2015, 10:47am

Hardworking guy that drives his company provided van home....NOPE, park it somewhere else.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/123/393788467_b689002922.jpg

I'm not sure using a Comcast van is the best way to make your point. :lol:

Mike Mercury

01-21-2015, 10:50am

I'm not sure using a Comcast van is the best way to make your point. :lol:

how about...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads24/3441421702905.jpg

:)

Cybercowboy

01-21-2015, 10:53am

how about...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads24/3441421702905.jpg

:)

There it is! The potato truck that biplane has been looking for!

RedLS1GTO

01-21-2015, 11:26am

At the risk of further derailing this enlightening conversation......:lol:

You know you love HOAs.

I bet you started your own HOA so you could tell yourself what to do and then fine yourself when you didn't do it.

DAB

01-21-2015, 11:31am

[/COLOR]

Interesting.....what's going on?? I set here scratching my ass, having been here now some 18 years almost.....

Kettler was a builder.....that's all I remember...some apartments he built went section 8???

What new about Monkey Village??:waiting::cert:

Kettler built montgomery village, and imposed HOAs on all the subdivisions. he didn't want working men to live in his ideal of a village, so he banned trucks. all trucks. his thinking in the early 70s was that only working guys (blue collar) and rednecks drove trucks, thus, no trucks. proper, dignified professional types drove cars. it was that simple. forward 30-40 years, no more station wagons, but we have quad cab trucks owned by lawyers and dentists and engineers...but still not trucks.

so they never buy there, they buy our old house (no HOA), park their truck on the street or driveway, and go about making money and being successful and being happy. last time i drove thru parts of MV, some of it was rather dumpy. the color requirements had just started changing away from 3 shades of brown only.

HOAs do not always assure that home values will be maintained.

Fastguy

01-21-2015, 12:08pm

We don't have an HOA, but we do have zoning bylaws, of which I have been on the receiving end a few times. Can't have any unregistered cars, so when I moved my vette into the driveway from the garage, someone reported it and I got a written violation. Another time the company that installed my driveway had a plastic sign out front which apparently can only be out 1 day after work compeltion. had it out two days, got another nastygram.

DAB

01-21-2015, 12:15pm

Cybercowboy

01-21-2015, 12:21pm

Aerovette

01-21-2015, 12:24pm

you are making this too easy.
Even with no zoning, a taco is a "prepared food". State health laws in food preparation cover every square inch of the state. They must get a permit and pass inspection before selling the first taco. You can't circumvent state health laws; all a community can do is add additional restrictions - built upon the state minimums. Even mobile food vendors have to follow the state health laws.

That area of Texas is mostly floodplain. If this type of crap is indeed happening, it's due to lack of enforcement ... or nobody cares to report it.

Spend a week in Houston and then tell me about health codes and taco stands. :lol:

I can take you on a tour of corrugated tin roof buildings with no walls and plastic chairs, with a tap into a power meter on a pole. Scary stuff. Yes, they have a sales permit and possibly have passed some rudimentary inspection BUT they absolutely do not have to be in a zoned commercial area...since there is no such thing in Houston.

Not being difficult, but this is a different country down here. :D

Aerovette

01-21-2015, 12:32pm

Incorrect, unless you're in a state that has prohibited parking restrictions on public streets.

Many HOAs have restrictions and the authority to create rules & regulations on what happens within their boundaries, streets included, that apply to all members. If there are rules pertaining to street parking, then it's no different than parking in your driveway or on your yard.

However, being a public street, they can't regulate what non-members do. So the guy a block over can park his semi-truck in the HOA on a public street and they can't do a thing about it. Which makes public-street restrictions contentious and quite silly.

As a former member of my HOA, I can tell you that the HOA has ZERO ability to enforce county laws and cannot create a rule that is in direct conflict with a county law. This I know. If you are abiding by county law and are parked OFF of your property (public street) legally, they cannot do squat about it. They can write letters, they can "attempt" to force you to comply but you have no obligation to move the vehicle as long as it is not violating any local ordinance. We had this come up in EVERY SINGLE meeting and the HOA message to the party complaining was the same. "There is nothing we can do".

Our HOA paid to have signs posted that say "No Soliciting". Our deed restrictions state that soliciting is not allowed within the subdivision. Y'know what? Tough tiddies, ANYONE can solicit in our subdivision because they are not breaking the law. There is NOTHING the HOA can do and they will admit that if pressed.

Fastguy

01-21-2015, 12:35pm

I remember you winning the driveway contest. What did it end up costing you?

I had to pay for police detail, work permits, and then the additional asphalt. All total, about $3,000. They left Thursday. Monday morning, I had a letter in my mailbox stating I would be fined for violating the town sign bylaw.

Cybercowboy

01-21-2015, 12:44pm

I had to pay for police detail, work permits, and then the additional asphalt. All total, about $3,000. They left Thursday. Monday morning, I had a letter in my mailbox stating I would be fined for violating the town sign bylaw.

Police detail? WTF?

Anyway, your "free driveway" sounds about like my "free oil changes" at the Acura dealership. :lol:

Fastguy

01-21-2015, 12:52pm

Police detail? WTF?

Anyway, your "free driveway" sounds about like my "free oil changes" at the Acura dealership. :lol:

My road is narrow, on a blind corner and the machines blocked more than half the road. The estimates I was getting were in the $12,000 range as the driveway is over 160' long and then opens up at the end. I knew going in I won x amount of square footage and I was over. I was just annoyed that I am making my house look nicer, making capital improvements, and then I get a threatening letter immediately.
Here is Scott (simpleman) about to crash into my stone wall at the end of it.

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10382853_10154187995175234_2161132706685010263_n.jpg?oh=654b21cdd7a67c378d0e9508ac259d0b&oe=552282C5

Cybercowboy

01-21-2015, 1:00pm

Looks nice. You have really green grass for this time of year! :D

island14

01-21-2015, 1:03pm

I'm kinda digging this road kill warrior.. :lol:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads21/redneck%2Btruck1344661313.jpg

island14

01-21-2015, 1:09pm

Here is Scott (simpleman) about to crash into my stone wall at the end of it.

Pics of that horrible accident? :island14:

:lol:

Aerovette

01-21-2015, 1:29pm

I'm kinda digging this road kill warrior.. :lol:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads21/redneck%2Btruck1344661313.jpg

Just to make a point of how idiotic HOAs can be, this truck, assuming it is street legal, can be parked in my driveway without any repercussions, BUT a brand new Corvette with no license plate would prompt a letter and ultimately a fine PROVING that it is about control and not about property values.

Dave

01-21-2015, 7:03pm

As a former member of my HOA, I can tell you that the HOA has ZERO ability to enforce county laws and cannot create a rule that is in direct conflict with a county law. This I know. If you are abiding by county law and are parked OFF of your property (public street) legally, they cannot do squat about it. They can write letters, they can "attempt" to force you to comply but you have no obligation to move the vehicle as long as it is not violating any local ordinance. We had this come up in EVERY SINGLE meeting and the HOA message to the party complaining was the same. "There is nothing we can do".

Our HOA paid to have signs posted that say "No Soliciting". Our deed restrictions state that soliciting is not allowed within the subdivision. Y'know what? Tough tiddies, ANYONE can solicit in our subdivision because they are not breaking the law. There is NOTHING the HOA can do and they will admit that if pressed.

You need to check again. If the county says "we have no parking restrictions on that street" and the HOA says "no parking", there is NO conflict.

As the president of my HOA, I have advice from multiple legal counsel that says we 100% MAY enact rules that are specific to the public street which is a part of our HOA, because our covenants give us the authority to do so.

Can the HOA enforce laws or ordinances created by a higher-up government authority? NO. Example: The HOA can't issue tickets for speeding.

Can the HOA overlook laws or ordinances created by a higher-up government authority? NO. Example: The HOA can't change the speed limit on a public road. They can't permit unlicensed vehicles to operate on the public road in conflict with state law.

Can the HOA implement local rules pertaining to the HOA membership that are more restrictive than any laws/ordinances? More than likely YES (assuming the covenants/bylaws/documents give the board that authority) Example: The HOA can implement a rule stating that overnight parking is prohibited in a public street.

This is no different than the county saying lawns must be less than a foot tall and the HOA says 4".

Here's a decent article on the topic from Arizona where street parking restrictions have come to a head:Legislators want fewer HOA rules on streets (http://archive.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/20120308legislators-hoa-rules-fewer.html)

LATB

01-21-2015, 7:33pm

Thread is entertaining. :seasix:

VatorMan

01-21-2015, 7:59pm

Man VS HOA is nothing compared to HOA VS HOA. I'm in a spat with the HOA across the street from mine. They have restricted parking on a public road. I am requesting the same restricted parking for mine. It goes before the county next montn. I'll either be happy or they will be pissed. :lol:

markids77

01-21-2015, 9:57pm

My answer to all this crap is deceptively simple. I own about 4 acres of property and my house is situated just about dead center. I cannot see my neighbors, and they cannot see me. No need for covenants, HOAs, fences of any sort or any other bullshyte. Fences and bylaws do not make for good neighbors, separation does.

DAB

01-21-2015, 10:04pm

Aerovette

01-21-2015, 10:31pm

You need to check again. If the county says "we have no parking restrictions on that street" and the HOA says "no parking", there is NO conflict.

As the president of my HOA, I have advice from multiple legal counsel that says we 100% MAY enact rules that are specific to the public street which is a part of our HOA, because our covenants give us the authority to do so.

Can the HOA enforce laws or ordinances created by a higher-up government authority? NO. Example: The HOA can't issue tickets for speeding.

Can the HOA overlook laws or ordinances created by a higher-up government authority? NO. Example: The HOA can't change the speed limit on a public road. They can't permit unlicensed vehicles to operate on the public road in conflict with state law.

Can the HOA implement local rules pertaining to the HOA membership that are more restrictive than any laws/ordinances? More than likely YES (assuming the covenants/bylaws/documents give the board that authority) Example: The HOA can implement a rule stating that overnight parking is prohibited in a public street.

This is no different than the county saying lawns must be less than a foot tall and the HOA says 4".

Here's a decent article on the topic from Arizona where street parking restrictions have come to a head:Legislators want fewer HOA rules on streets (http://archive.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/20120308legislators-hoa-rules-fewer.html)

By chance are you in Houston and are you speaking of a gated community or ungated? In a gated community in Harris County, the HOA can make and enforce many more rules. Those streets are not County maintained.

Regarding the bold... they can implement any rule they want to. Enforcing it legally is a different matter. See my post regarding soliciting. Same thing.

DAB

01-21-2015, 10:35pm

Imagine an HOA run by Chas?! :faint:

Aerovette

01-21-2015, 10:39pm

Imagine an HOA run by Chas?! :faint:

From the description of his neighborhood, I think he does run his.

Dave

01-22-2015, 8:17am

By chance are you in Houston and are you speaking of a gated community or ungated? In a gated community in Harris County, the HOA can make and enforce many more rules. Those streets are not County maintained.

Regarding the bold... they can implement any rule they want to. Enforcing it legally is a different matter. See my post regarding soliciting. Same thing.

Not Houston, not talking about a gated community. Public roads.

Enforcement is the same as any other HOA violation. Fines, liens, court orders, foreclosure of a lien, whatever is permitted by the governing documents. All quite legal.

racer313g

01-22-2015, 9:30am

Aerovette

01-22-2015, 1:50pm

Not Houston, not talking about a gated community. Public roads.

Enforcement is the same as any other HOA violation. Fines, liens, court orders, foreclosure of a lien, whatever is permitted by the governing documents. All quite legal.

I would not think that HOAs nationwide have the same rules/laws/restrictions/or jurisdiction.

Apples and oranges with regard to my statements.

I can tell you that in Harris County, the subdivision cannot make law. If there is no legal violation regarding a public street, they cannot dictate one. I cannot park a Comcast van, for example, in my driveway, but I can put one in front of my house every day. They can send all the letters they want but they cannot force me to move it. :seasix:

polarbear

01-22-2015, 11:08pm

In Oregon, HOA's of subdivisions carry a lot less clout than condo HOA's. Covenants that could be considered discriminatory or environmentally unfriendly can expect legal challenges from a County or City level. That covers a lot of ground. Want "natural" landscaping, and the HOA won't approve it? Don't want to water your yard during the dry season? Or want to paint your home using recyled paint in a non-approved color? Got news- the HOA is going to have a battle on their hands, and they won't just be fighting the homeowner.

RedLS1GTO

01-23-2015, 7:58am

Agreed. 5 acres and my house sits 1/4 mile off the road. Nothing around me but horse pastures. :dance:

That sounds like a pretty good setup. I should look for something similar.

LATB

01-23-2015, 8:03am

That sounds like a pretty good setup. I should look for something similar.

Or the moon. Where the only laws would be those of gravity. :Jeff '79:

Dave

01-23-2015, 8:23am

I would not think that HOAs nationwide have the same rules/laws/restrictions/or jurisdiction.

Apples and oranges with regard to my statements.

I can tell you that in Harris County, the subdivision cannot make law. If there is no legal violation regarding a public street, they cannot dictate one. I cannot park a Comcast van, for example, in my driveway, but I can put one in front of my house every day. They can send all the letters they want but they cannot force me to move it. :seasix:
Since when did this turn into "the laws of Harris County" thread?
Across the country (as a general statement) HOAs can restrict parking on public streets within the HOA (applicable to HOA members) if their governing documents give that authority. The enforcement process is the same as any other HOA violation (unless otherwise stated in the HOA documents).

Compare that to the fruit of your choice.

Aerovette

01-23-2015, 9:31am

Since when did this turn into "the laws of Harris County" thread?
Across the country (as a general statement) HOAs can restrict parking on public streets within the HOA (applicable to HOA members) if their governing documents give that authority. The enforcement process is the same as any other HOA violation (unless otherwise stated in the HOA documents).

Compare that to the fruit of your choice.

It changed right around the time it became a "how much property do you have" thread. :seasix:
I posted it in relation to my previous post about the offending vehicle being safe from HOA BS by parking it in the streets where HOAs have zero enforcement ability. That position was disputed by someone in a different area than I live in. Perhaps that is also the case for the person in the article. I was pointing out that it is not true in Harris county. :D

RedLS1GTO

01-23-2015, 11:03am

Or the moon. Where the only laws would be those of gravity. :Jeff '79:

I prefer to have as few people telling me what to do as possible. I get enough of that from those making stupid laws in DC. I certainly don't need any more of it from some developer who thinks the courts should decide what kind of truck I can park in my driveway or some nobody with a Napolean complex who claims that the color of my mailbox ruins the value of his house.

As for my original comment, it was directed to the person I quoted. The land that I am in the process of buying is almost a mirror image of his, something he already knew.

My new front yard.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/botch1980/212802_21_zpsiszhz8a1.jpg

While I will undoubtedly miss having a book a rules to explain how to maintain my yard with the threat of fines if I don't conform, I think I'll be able to manage on my own.

Plenty of room for a taco stand.

Aerovette

01-23-2015, 11:06am

I prefer to have as few people telling me what to do as possible. I get enough of that from those making stupid laws in DC. I certainly don't need any more of it from some developer who thinks the courts should decide what kind of truck I can park in my driveway or some nobody with a Napolean complex who claims that the color of my mailbox ruins the value of his house.

As for my original comment, it was directed to the person I quoted. The land that I am in the process of buying is almost a mirror image of his, something he already knew.

My new front yard.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/botch1980/212802_21_zpsiszhz8a1.jpg

While I will undoubtedly miss having a book a rules to explain how to maintain my yard with the threat of fines if I don't conform, I think I'll be able to manage on my own.

Plenty of room for a taco stand.

Man that is the way to live. I WISH I had that kind of view out my windows. The unfortunate thing about where I live is that traffic is so bad and the city is spread out so far that I would have to make a two hour drive each way to work to have that view.

DAB

01-23-2015, 11:26am

I prefer to have as few people telling me what to do as possible. I get enough of that from those making stupid laws in DC. I certainly don't need any more of it from some developer who thinks the courts should decide what kind of truck I can park in my driveway or some nobody with a Napolean complex who claims that the color of my mailbox ruins the value of his house.

As for my original comment, it was directed to the person I quoted. The land that I am in the process of buying is almost a mirror image of his, something he already knew.

My new front yard.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/botch1980/212802_21_zpsiszhz8a1.jpg

While I will undoubtedly miss having a book a rules to explain how to maintain my yard with the threat of fines if I don't conform, I think I'll be able to manage on my own.

Plenty of room for a taco stand.

nice.

view from front porch recently:

http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad214/brinkmancorvette/IMG_1552_zpsb951317f.jpg

LATB

01-23-2015, 12:43pm

...some developer...

:Jeff '79: clueless :Jeff '79:

RedLS1GTO

01-23-2015, 12:48pm

:Jeff '79: clueless :Jeff '79:

Great. Now I'll be sure to let you know when I start giving a f**k about your opinion. :seasix:

Hint: It hasn't happened yet

LATB

01-23-2015, 2:32pm

Great. Now I'll be sure to let you know when I start giving a f**k about your opinion. :seasix:

Hint: It hasn't happened yet

not my opinion. fact

you think for a second a developer creates a HOA because he wants to?

Hint: He does it because he has to. :seasix:

DAB

01-23-2015, 3:48pm

not my opinion. fact

you think for a second a developer creates a HOA because he wants to?

Hint: He does it because he has to. :seasix:

:skep:

i thought they did it to exercise some control over the look and feel of a place long after they were done building the last unit. becomes a sales hook: "don't worry, the HOA won't let your neighbor park his Camaro on cinderblocks in the front yard. unlike the old development over THERE, that as you can see attracts the Wrong Element (roll eyes and sigh)."

they do it to up the sales prices and keep out the undesirables (to them).

LATB

01-23-2015, 4:12pm

:skep:

i thought they did it to exercise some control over the look and feel of a place long after they were done building the last unit. becomes a sales hook: "don't worry, the HOA won't let your neighbor park his Camaro on cinderblocks in the front yard. unlike the old development over THERE, that as you can see attracts the Wrong Element (roll eyes and sigh)."

they do it to up the sales prices and keep out the undesirables (to them).

its part market driven...part government driven.

RedLS1GTO

01-23-2015, 4:33pm

not my opinion. fact

you think for a second a developer creates a HOA because he wants to?

Hint: He does it because he has to. :seasix:

Goddamn you are f**king dense. :rofl:

The HOA must be created in some instances and some areas... no shit. Nobody said otherwise. What doesn't HAVE to be done, even if it must be created, is to include the absolutely asinine bylaws that many have as well as the asinine interpretations of them... including the OP.

The mere chance of being a victim of that colossal dumbassery is the exact reason that I will never be a part of a HOA again.

DAB

01-23-2015, 4:53pm

its part market driven...part government driven.

:confused5:

how does our local government 'create' an HOA? our neighborhood doesn't have one, just 2 pages of covenants. our last house in MD didn't have one (built 1970).

i'm missing something here.

Aerovette

01-23-2015, 5:31pm

:confused5:

how does our local government 'create' an HOA? our neighborhood doesn't have one, just 2 pages of covenants. our last house in MD didn't have one (built 1970).

i'm missing something here.

Speculation on my part but here is my theory.

The county (in my case) collects taxes based on property values and pays for schools from those taxes along with infrastructure such as sewage and road maintenance. They calculate a tax collection at x for y years based on the value and economic factors. If people are going to do things that cause their neighbors to leave the hood, or that reduce the value of the homes, the tax revenue drops.

If the developer should NOT agree to have an HOA controlled property, the tax base calculations are at risk. In turn, they may be less likely to grant build permits etc. because the return is not going to be what it could if it were an HOA controlled neighborhood.

Builders are also not as likely to sign up to build homes in a non HOA area because for some (like me) it was actually a selling point. My old neighborhood had issues and I did not want to pay 10x for this current house with no assurance that I would not have the same issues.

LATB

01-23-2015, 5:36pm

Goddamn you are f**king dense. :rofl:

I appreciate the insult :seasix:

Aerovette

01-23-2015, 5:46pm

Goddamn you are f**king dense. :rofl:

The HOA must be created in some instances and some areas... no shit. Nobody said otherwise. What doesn't HAVE to be done, even if it must be created, is to include the absolutely asinine bylaws that many have as well as the asinine interpretations of them... including the OP.

The mere chance of being a victim of that colossal dumbassery is the exact reason that I will never be a part of a HOA again.

Here is a crazy factoid.

In my neighborhood the bylaws state that in order to CHANGE the bylaws, 95% of the homeowners must agree to the change. Ridiculous. You can't get 95% of the people to agree what time it is. Essentially they created a means for ensuring their power is never diminished. I do know that after x amount of years, the HOA can be removed completely. I do not know how many years that is. 30 sticks in my head.

LATB

01-23-2015, 6:30pm

:confused5:

how does our local government 'create' an HOA? our neighborhood doesn't have one, just 2 pages of covenants. our last house in MD didn't have one (built 1970).

i'm missing something here.

modern subdivision development under state legislated comprehensive development plans.

most subdivision developments now are PUD (planned unit development) and a PUD requires green space. the green space requires common ownership and maintenance/management.

if a developer is going to give up land to green space...he usually makes it a marketable amenity. pool, tennis courts, park area, walking trails.

this triggers the HOA requirement.

the CCR's are at the developers discretion. usually follow county zoning for setbacks and height etc. and if a developer wants to dictate exterior finishes, or style, or building placement...his choice. some are more restrictive, some less. its the buyers choice to agree with the developers vision or live somewhere else.

and, because of interpretation issues like the OP pickup truck/commercial vehicle, the days of a 2 page CCR is long gone.