Emissions

[Rob]

President Barack Obama announced Wednesday that the U.S. has set a new goal to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases by between 26 percent and 28 percent over the next 11 years as part of a climate change agreement with China.

The new target is a drastic increase from earlier in Obama's presidency, when he pledged to cut emissions by 17 percent by 2020. By contrast, Obama's counterpart, Xi Jinping, did not pledge any reductions by a specific date, but rather set a target for China's emissions to peak by 2030, or earlier if possible. Xi also pledged to increase the share of energy that China will derive from sources other than fossil fuels. China's emissions have grown in recent years due to the building of new coal plants.

"This is a major milestone in the U.S.-China relationship," Obama told a news conference in Beijing, with Xi at his side. "It shows what's possible when we work together on an urgent global challenge."

The Associated Press reported that the deal was the result of months of secret discussions between U.S. and Chinese officials.

It was unclear how feasible it would be for either country to meet their goals, and Obama's pledge was sure to confront tough opposition from ascendant Republicans in Congress.

"This unrealistic plan, that the president would dump on his successor, would ensure higher utility rates and far fewer jobs," said incoming Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky, in a statement.

But environmental advocates in the U.S. heralded the joint announcements as a game-changer that would undermine any legislative opposition.

"Now there is no longer an excuse for Congress to block action," said Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., who chairs the Senate's environmental panel.

Al Gore, the former vice president and a leading advocate for limiting climate change, called the announcement "a major step forward in the global effort to solve the climate crisis." He said more will be required -- "including a global agreement from all nations -- but these actions demonstrate a serious commitment by the top two global polluters."

Obama's target, expected to serve as the U.S. contribution to a worldwide treaty to be finalized next year in Paris, came months before it had been expected. The U.S. has sought to show aggressive action on climate change in order to spur other nations to offer ambitious contributions, too.

China accounts for around 30 percent of global emissions, but has only gotten serious about the issue in recent years as the large-scale impact on health and quality of life in China has come into focus, exacerbated by smothering smog in Beijing's skies.


This is complete and utter bullshit! Why are we the ones making the promises to cut our emissions (albeit a good thing) when China is the one destroying this planet?

I'm not pizzed about the fact that we are taking care of ourselves, but WTF are we making this promise to China?

And the part in Bold....GMAFB. Those people in China dont give a rats ass about humanity.

/rant

For those of you who have also been to China - you know how nasty the cities and metropolitan areas are. The skies are yellow and you literally feel sick after spending any time in that air.

[Rob]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/greeninc/hongpollution.jpg

[Bucwheat]

I'm sure China got a good laugh from that statement,like you said it's BS to think they will abide.:leaving:

[Kerrmudgeon]

If North America would STOP buying crap made in China it would solve the problem.:yesnod:

[snide]

If North America would STOP buying crap made in China it would solve the problem.:yesnod:

America cleaned up emissions by shipping manufacturing jobs over to China. Great job, America.

[VatorMan]

America cleaned up emissions by shipping manufacturing jobs over to China. Great job, America.

Amazing isn't it ? WalMart is learning this lesson the hard way. Buy everything from China you put the people that buy your crap out of business. Hence they can't buy your crap any more.

[Rob]

America cleaned up emissions by shipping manufacturing jobs over to China. Great job, America.

Amazing isn't it ? WalMart is learning this lesson the hard way. Buy everything from China you put the people that buy your crap out of business. Hence they can't buy your crap any more.

Which brings up a great question - Do you think, whomever it is that truly directs what our government does, has enough foresight to know that things like offshoring manufacturing and drilling for oil in foreign countries will only deplete those countries of their resources to the point where at some point in the future we once again become the most powerful nation in the world?

That is something I often wonder when seeing some of the deals our government makes knowing that the time/value of money now based on what it will be is a small investment in what will inevitably make us rich?

:waiting:

[Sea Six]

Psst... Rob...

Whatever the issue seems to be, it's actually political hay that's the real issue.

[RedLS1GTO]

America cleaned up emissions by shipping manufacturing jobs over to China. Great job, America.

...and manufacturing jobs were shipped to China in large part because it is all but impossible to make a product here and still be profitable, due in part to costs associated with meeting a lot of frivolous requirements along with the few that actually might do some good.

The trucks to ship cost more because they have to meet crazy emissions standards, manufacturing costs more for a plethora of reasons...

It's 1 gigantic cycle of unintended consequences.


The simple truth is that no matter what they claim, a vast majority of Americans would rather save a dime than buy American. If American companies could reduce their costs to compete, they would... but it isn't possible. Goods from overseas are being SOLD for less than they can even be produced here. Until that changes, manufacturing is going to continue to go overseas.

Look at the (evil) GE. GE invested well over a billion dollars bringing appliance manufacturing back to the US. With very few exceptions, every major appliance with a GE logo has been made in either Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, or Indiana for the last 6 years or so. A big push was also made to use domestic suppliers rather than importing parts where possible.

The result was products that were by all measurements, higher quality than the counterparts. They were also slightly more expensive. What did that gain? Well... GE just sold the entire appliance operation to Electrolux at a loss and those American jobs created (including mine at the time) are more than likely going to die a painful death.

I'd say that experiment failed.

[LATB]

Obama needs to go chew more gum and STFU.

[Bill]

Race to the bottom.

[69camfrk]

It is also hard for America to compete with what is essentially slave labor in China....

[Kerrmudgeon]

Free trade with third world countries doesn't make sense either. You need level playing fields to make that work. If your labour costs are peanuts and you don't give a shit about human rights or emissions, you should HAVE to pay an import/export tax to sell your cheap goods in first world markets.
:toetap:

[RedLS1GTO]

It is also hard for America to compete with what is essentially slave labor in China....

It's not hard... it's impossible.

The problem is that there is no realistic fix for it. Labor here isn't getting cheaper anytime soon which means the only way to level the field is to add an import cost to the overseas goods.

When it is boiled all the way down, the bottom line is that American consumers will pay more. Even though the end result would be a positive for the American labor force, all that the majority is going to see is that their costs went up. I am not convinced that is going to go over too well given the short sightedness of such a large number.

[Kerrmudgeon]

It's not hard... it's impossible.

The problem is that there is no realistic fix for it. Labor here isn't getting cheaper anytime soon which means the only way to level the field is to add an import cost to the overseas goods.

When it is boiled all the way down, the bottom line is that American consumers will pay more. Even though the end result would be a positive for the American labor force, all that the majority is going to see is that their costs went up. I am not convinced that is going to go over too well given the short sightedness of such a large number.

So what you do is give the added tax charged to the country exporting the stuff back to the consumers here by way of a tax rebate to offset the higher costs.
Here we get refund cheques from the Gov for our higher sales tax. I get a 50$ rebate cheque every month. Most get a cheque every 3 months :canada:

[Olustee bus]

Which brings up a great question - Do you think, whomever it is that truly directs what our government does, has enough foresight to know that things like offshoring manufacturing and drilling for oil in foreign countries will only deplete those countries of their resources to the point where at some point in the future we once again become the most powerful nation in the world?

That is something I often wonder when seeing some of the deals our government makes knowing that the time/value of money now based on what it will be is a small investment in what will inevitably make us rich?

:waiting:

It was my unlearned opinion years ago that our dependence on foreign oil was a good thing if ti did not get out of hand. Lets suck their oil down and save ours.

[VatorMan]

It was my unlearned opinion years ago that our dependence on foreign oil was a good thing if ti did not get out of hand. Lets suck their oil down and save ours.

What it causes is people in those other countries get reaaaaaaalllllly rich and do destructive stuff like fund radical terrorist groups or build huge mega armies/navies with YOUR money. Just like our grandfathers/fathers that were bombed in WWII with US steel by the axis powers, we still haven't learned.

[RedLS1GTO]

So what you do is give the added tax charged to the country exporting the stuff back to the consumers...

Solid plan.

You do realize that the largest TOTAL trade partner with the US and the second largest importer to the US is Canada at somewhere near 17% and ~$330 Billion worth of imports... right?

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/top/index.html


...and 300+ million monthly "rebate" checks being sent out? I think not. Canada has roughly 10% of the population of the US. Hell, California has a larger population than the entirety of Canada.

The scale of economy is not even close to the same.

[Aerovette]

Solid plan.

You do realize that the largest TOTAL trade partner with the US and the second largest importer to the US is Canada at somewhere near 17% and ~$330 Billion worth of imports... right?

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/top/index.html


...and 300+ million monthly "rebate" checks being sent out? I think not. Canada has roughly 10% of the population of the US. Hell, California has a larger population than the entirety of Canada.

The scale of economy is not even close to the same.

I would like to see a comparison in import value however.

If Canada is importing (to us) high dollar items to hit that level but it is made up of 1000 different items, it will look pretty robust compared to all the 10 cent crap that China puts in 99cent stores nationwide.

I don't know this to be true, but I suspect it to be possible.

[HellCat]

I thought you were talking about nocturnal emissions.

[RedLS1GTO]

I would like to see a comparison in import value however.

Have fun. :cheers:

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/product/enduse/imports/c1220.html

[mike100]

China is dumping on our economy. It took quite some time for them to properly revalue their currency as the USD dropped. The only thing cheaper in China was food and labor costs. Anything in a hardware store or some modern electronics actually cost the same or more.

So either there are too many middlemen in their supply chain causing a high store price, or they are selling it to us so cheap that even the boat ride for all this stuff is complimentary.

[mrvette]

China is dumping on our economy. It took quite some time for them to properly revalue their currency as the USD dropped. The only thing cheaper in China was food and labor costs. Anything in a hardware store or some modern electronics actually cost the same or more.

So either there are too many middlemen in their supply chain causing a high store price, or they are selling it to us so cheap that even the boat ride for all this stuff is complimentary.

One can compare labor costs all damn day, but it's only a fair comparison when considered on a LOCAL RATE, ie,....look at the clothing of most of the pix of China citizens of late, look at the sale rate of GM products, look at the traffic and bike useage, look at the farms and so their currency is treated like trash, when quite the opposite is true.....FOOD is labor intensive, and so cheaper only with tech....the only reason anything made in Asia is more expensiver there than here is crooked markets.....I have never figgered out how in HELL the Japs could take over consumer electronics then CARS too boot through the 60-70's.....what with shipping costs, and the answer is simple, currency manipulations done by our liberal as hell Fed.Gov.....bunch of commies out to destroy the country....

:issues::sadangel:

[Rob]

Found a great article


Living Like a Local: What A Chinese City Really Looks Like (http://www.travelfreak.net/living-like-a-local-what-a-chinese-city-really-looks-like/)

[LATB]

Found a great article


Living Like a Local: What A Chinese City Really Looks Like (http://www.travelfreak.net/living-like-a-local-what-a-chinese-city-really-looks-like/)

I wouldn't live there for all the, you know...tea in China. :Jeff '79:

[Rob]

I wouldn't live there for all the, you know...tea in China. :Jeff '79:

I have applied for a couple jobs over there recently. The money is unreal...

[LATB]

I have applied for a couple jobs over there recently. The money is unreal...

you know where I live. It's not for the money :Jeff '79:

[Rob]

you know where I live. It's not for the money :Jeff '79:

My goal is to retire at 55. If my investments continue this average rate of return I will be done in 12 years.

Now, if I have kids or any of that....things may change a bit.

[JRD77VET]

When NAFTA started, some of the machine work I do was shipped overseas. After a few years, we had most of those jobs back plus repair work to fix what the overseas folks couldn't do. I machine various close tolerance weldments and work with different superalloys.

One ( not very slim ) advantage is the skills in manufacturing we have. If we don't smarten up and get more of the younger generation back into skilled manufacturing, we'll continue our rapid slide to a second rate country.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Barry is in salvage mod right now. He put us in debt over our heads which devalued our money so he's trying to promote something "good and green" to save his legacy.