Involuntary confinement of people coming out of africa..violation of rights?

[RED-85-Z51]

a New Jersey woman has been involuntarily confined in a sealed tent after returning from a trip to West Africa to treat Ebola, she was flagged as a high threat, and was involuntarily put into a tent, with a portapotty, bed, etc..basic conditions, to be monitored for 21 days.

She says it violates her basic human rights, and id assume, her civil liberties as well.

So...all said and done, Is the state overstepping its boundaries here? Its not like a psych hold, where someone is deemed an immediate threat to themselves or someone else and are arrested and held for 48 hours pending a mental health screening....this is a situation where someone is being detained for traveling to another country, and coming home...

Personally, I say if you willingly go to west africa, and surround youtself with ebola...do not expect to be treated normally for at least 21 days..you are, I guess, an enemy of the state..and by the state, I mean America and its people.

Nurse quaratined in New Jersey plans legal action for release - WEAR - Pensacola Top Stories - ABC (http://www.weartv.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/nurse-quaratined-new-jersey-plans-legal-action-release-51081.shtml#.VE3EXmeNOSo)

[Aerovette]

I'm ok with it and I don't give a crap about the rights of someone that would put me or my family at risk.

[ApexOversteer]

She wasn't some tourist on safari, she was treating the infected, she has to assume there will be some protocol to follow.

[DukeAllen]

Don't want to be quarenteened? Don't hang out in ebola-land. If that's too hard for her to understand, I wonder if she's smart enough to be treating it in the first place.

['77Babe]

It would be a violation of everyone else's rights if they didn't do it.

[RED-85-Z51]

It would be a violation of everyone else's rights if they didn't do it.

And this folks, is exactly why our constitution does NOT work...

If you guarantee freedoms, liberties...to everyone, you are instantly violating someone elses freedoms, liberties to do so...

[Fasglas]

Maybe she should just return to AFRICA.

Simple solution.

[Kerrmudgeon]

Stupid fool.....her individual rights vs the health of the public at large...sorry, you got NONE! :slap:
Everyone else has voluntarily quarantined themselves as a precaution. I hope she develops the disease! :kick: :lolsmile:

[VITE1]

Quarantining people is legal and has been done before.

In this case the three states are doing so ONLY to HC professionals and doing so in violation of the Current DoJ statement that the Federal government only has jurisdiction on immigration issues.

The issue here, IMHO, is if we start guaranteeing people coming from West Africa then we have to close the southern Boarder since anyone can get through. And the Current administration is dead set against that.

BTW I am here in Taiwan and was in Korea and have been watching the Chinese news. They are talking this very seriously. China has a mandatory quarantine on anyone coming from the region. All the airports have body temp scanners with people monitoring them. You have a fever they stop you and asks lots of pointed questions.

[Barn Babe]

Quarantining people is legal and has been done before.

In this case the three states are doing so ONLY to HC professionals and doing so in violation of the Current DoJ statement that the Federal government only has jurisdiction on immigration issues.

The issue here, IMHO, is if we start guaranteeing people coming from West Africa then we have to close the southern Boarder since anyone can get through. And the Current administration is dead set against that.

BTW I am here in Taiwan and was in Korea and have been watching the Chinese news. They are talking this very seriously. China has a mandatory quarantine on anyone coming from the region. All the airports have body temp scanners with people monitoring them. You have a fever they stop you and asks lots of pointed questions.

:iagree: Except the part where we look to China as an example for human rights. :willy:

[Sea Six]

And this folks, is exactly why our constitution does NOT work...

If you guarantee freedoms, liberties...to everyone, you are instantly violating someone elses freedoms, liberties to do so...

See, you're trying too hard.

In order to be a successful troll, you have to have a light touch. Like a safecracker... or a pickpocket.

You probably would have been safer if you had suggested indirectly that this is what you believe. Maybe by giving an example of how you think the constitution "fails."

Jumping out there and saying the Constitution is a complete and abject failure is, in and of itself, a troll attempt failure.

:kick:


Go back and do it again.

[GS Ragtop]

I'm shocked this procedure isn't already in place for any person exposed to the virus.

Apparently we don't really don't want to keep Ebola from spreading. We could take some lessons from Nigeria.

[RED-85-Z51]

See, you're trying too hard.

In order to be a successful troll, you have to have a light touch. Like a safecracker... or a pickpocket.

You probably would have been safer if you had suggested indirectly that this is what you believe. Maybe by giving an example of how you think the constitution "fails."

Jumping out there and saying the Constitution is a complete and abject failure is, in and of itself, a troll attempt failure.

:kick:


Go back and do it again.


Not even trolling, I dont think you can guarantee the same freedoms, to all of the people, all of the time.

Example...

I own a business, I started it, I funded it, I grew it, I run it..I set the rules within it...its mine.

If I offer a position within this business, and someone applies that qualifies, and I dont like them because they have tats...or are gay, I cant..NOT hire them for that...

The government says that you cannot be denied fair access to a job you qualify for based on sex, creed, religion, disability, etc etc..

I have the same rights...except the government tells me who I can and cannot hire, even if the .gov had absolutely nothing to do with my business.

[Bill]

And this folks, is exactly why our constitution does NOT work...

If you guarantee freedoms, liberties...to everyone, you are instantly violating someone elses freedoms, liberties to do so...


The purpose of our constitutional republic is to: help ensure individual liberties, protect the minority from the majority, protect citizens from government, and to protect citizens from each other (and also from non citizens).

At first glance, this seems like govt. infringing on the liberty of that nurse. Looking a little deeper, though, the govt. is enforcing the quarantine to protect other citizens from her. Two nurses from Dallas, working in a first world hospital setting, got ebola while working with one ebola patient. It isn't a stretch to think that this nurse, working in 3rd world conditions with multiple ebola patients, might be at high risk of contracting it and spreading it. The forced quarantine is justified.

....and Red, this is coming from a raging Libertarian. I'm waaaay more sensitive to individual liberties being trampled by govt. over reach than maybe any one else here. The fact that I agree with what was done and think her lawsuit should go nowhere is telling, don't you think?

[NavyC5]

Just heard she's being released because she threatened to sue. Ok, if 10 days from now she turns up sick and contaminates someone else, Gov Christie should be allowed to kick her in the box.

[Bill]

Not even trolling, I dont think you can guarantee the same freedoms, to all of the people, all of the time.

Example...

I own a business, I started it, I funded it, I grew it, I run it..I set the rules within it...its mine.

If I offer a position within this business, and someone applies that qualifies, and I dont like them because they have tats...or are gay, I cant..NOT hire them for that...

The government says that you cannot be denied fair access to a job you qualify for based on sex, creed, religion, disability, etc etc..

I have the same rights...except the government tells me who I can and cannot hire, even if the .gov had absolutely nothing to do with my business.


You have just discovered why you should be voting Libertarian. Yes, it's your business. At last check, YOU pay the taxes, pay the mortgage, pay the salaries, pay the utilities, pay the vendors, etc. The govt. pays none of that, yet they feel they can tell you how you should run your business. They have no skin in the game, unlike you. As a business owner, you should also demand a smaller government that confiscates less of what your business makes. Contrary to the opinion of some, you DID create that business.

You SHOULD be able to discriminate against anyone, for any reason, just as potential customer or vendor should be able to discriminate against you.

Govt. is the only entity that should be barred from discrimination. They MUST treat all citizens equally.

[Mike Mercury]

confinement of people coming out of africa..violation of rights?


as long as they are still able to vote - in US elections via absentee ballots - multiple times per election; I think everyone will quit claiming its a violation of ones rights.

[VatorMan]

You have just discovered why you should be voting Libertarian. Yes, it's your business. At last check, YOU pay the taxes, pay the mortgage, pay the salaries, pay the utilities, pay the vendors, etc. The govt. pays none of that, yet they feel they can tell you how you should run your business. They have no skin in the game, unlike you. As a business owner, you should also demand a smaller government that confiscates less of what your business makes. Contrary to the opinion of some, you DID create that business.

You SHOULD be able to discriminate against anyone, for any reason, just as potential customer or vendor should be able to discriminate against you.

Govt. is the only entity that should be barred from discrimination. They MUST treat all citizens equally.


Sometimes the .GOV has to step on business toes. Where would we be if they hadn't broken up Standard oil, the railroads or forced competition for utility providers ?
Are you saying PG&E can turn off the power to whomever they deem inferior ?

[RED-85-Z51]

If the .gov can make me hire someone i dont like....then i should be able to force someone to work for me that doesnt want to...

[Aerovette]

And this folks, is exactly why our constitution does NOT work...

If you guarantee freedoms, liberties...to everyone, you are instantly violating someone elses freedoms, liberties to do so...

While this may be true, the INTENT has always been that the majority rules.

You cannot POSSIBLY please everyone in this country, but keeping the majority happy is "supposed" to work in the general scheme of things.

Regarding your ability to hire or not hire. You can make that decision based on any criteria you choose. Some criteria cannot be advertised, however. :seasix:

[OddBall]

If the .gov can make me hire someone i dont like....then i should be able to force someone to work for me that doesnt want to...

a gay atheist interracial pothead couple.

:funnier:

[Cybercowboy]

Just heard she's being released because she threatened to sue. Ok, if 10 days from now she turns up sick and contaminates someone else, Gov Christie should be allowed to kick her in the box.

Not because she threatened to sue, because Obama/CDC forced Christie to have her released. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2808178/Cuomo-Ebola-quarantine-hard-enforce.html)

But they are enforcing a quarantine for our military men and women who leave there. They have them camp out in Italy somewhere (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-u-s-soldiers-returning-from-liberia-placed-in-isolation-in-italy/) for awhile before being allowed back in the states.

Once again, Obama just proves how much he friggin' hates regular Americans. Hates. Them.

[Sea Six]

If the .gov can make me hire someone i dont like

They can't.

They can prohibit you from NOT hiring someone from a protected class because of their protected class status. You are perfectly within your rights to not hire someone from a protected class for non-prohibited reasons.

But they can't make you hire anyone for any reason.


Both the Feds and the state have their own, nearly overlapping, list of such protected classes.

[Rob]

I say we allow people coming to this country to forgo any quarantine - but they must individually accept all full financial responsibility for any and everyone that becomes infected and all costs for their treatment recursively as well as openly accept any future litigation due to the selfless declination of confinement that might protect not only anyone they may come in contact with.

[Mike Mercury]

I say we allow people coming to this country to forgo any quarantine - but they must individually accept all full financial responsibility for any and everyone that becomes infected and all costs

I don't think you get it; doing that would keep the poor from entering the country, getting their free cell phone, and pre-filled-out absentee ballots. How can the democrats win - if you deny one of their sources of illegal voters?

[Sea Six]

I say we allow people coming to this country to forgo any quarantine - but they must individually accept all full financial responsibility for any and everyone that becomes infected and all costs for their treatment recursively as well as openly accept any future litigation due to the selfless declination of confinement that might protect not only anyone they may come in contact with.

You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip.

:seasix:

[Bill]

I say we allow people coming to this country to forgo any quarantine - but they must individually accept all full financial responsibility for any and everyone that becomes infected and all costs for their treatment recursively as well as openly accept any future litigation due to the selfless declination of confinement that might protect not only anyone they may come in contact with.



Patient Zero came here from Liberia, most probably to get FREE treatment from the US taxpayer. He was judgement proof, just like his family living in that shithole apartment in South Dallas. The only folks that might be intimidated by the threat of financial ruin might be the doctors going over there treating patients, although even those doctors probably aren't loaded by American standards, because they are selfless to go to Africa and treat people who couldn't possibly pay them for their services.

I'm afraid your theory won't pan out in the real world. It's the same reason illegal aliens drive with no insurance. They have nothing to take when they cause an accident. You can't get money from a stone, so why should they waste money on car insurance, and why should potential ebola patients give a crap, either?

[Bill]

You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip.

:seasix:

:iagree:

You were a lot more succinct that I was. Perfect response.

[Sea Six]

Actually, the more I think about it, Rob's post is a perfect example of using just the right touch when you're trolling.

Red, this is how it's done. Take note.


:thumbs:

[Kevin_73]

We need to re-open the Ellis Island hospital.

Ellis Island Immigrant Hospital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Sea Six]

:iagree:

You were a lot more succinct that I was. Perfect response.

:cheers:


It's a Southern thang.




:dance:

[Aerovette]

We need to re-open the Ellis Island hospital.

Ellis Island Immigrant Hospital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island_Immigrant_Hospital)

It's open now...just for tours though.

In some respects, that is how immigration should be handled. Back then there were a lot of mistakes and some ill will doled out, but in general, funneling everyone through a single port makes more sense then letting them just swarm in like gnats from everywhere.

It's kind of sad when it is harder to get a piece of fruit or a plant into the US than an potential ebola carrier.

[RED-85-Z51]

Actually, the more I think about it, Rob's post is a perfect example of using just the right touch when you're trolling.

Red, this is how it's done. Take note.


:thumbs:

I think you forget the left lane bandit thread...I trolled the whole fkin forum for days...

But in this case, Im not actually trolling, at least not intentionally.

[Fasglas]

We need to re-open the Ellis Island hospital.


I believe ALCATRAZ ISLAND would be FAR better suited for this purpose. There are medical facilities there which can be upgraded as needed.

Any person from suspect areas will go there. No equivocation or excuses.

This might cause sick people to rethink if they REALLY want to come here.

Win-Win

[Bill]

I think you forget the left lane bandit thread...I trolled the whole fkin forum for days...

But in this case, Im not actually trolling, at least not intentionally.

Nonsense...everyone knows you drive the speed limit in the left lane, except when you need to run down a bicyclist in the right hand lane.

:bill_daniels:

[lspencer534]

Anyone with any leadership ability at all should see Ebola as an imminent threat to Americans and do whatever is necessary to eliminate/minimize that threat. Politics/popularity of what is done should be disregarded. Not quarantining people returning from place where they were/possibly were exposed to Ebola is irresponsible and dangerous.

What happened immediately after 9/11? Planes were grounded, immediate travel restrictions were put in place until some semblance of safety could be restored. Isn't the same danger happening now, but with just a different killer?

[Chris Fowler]

You can quarantine them here, which is seen as a violation of individual rights.

You can quarantine them there, which gives us less control, and would also been seen as an individual rights.

Or you can just not let them in, at all...

Pick one.

[CP]

I listened to her today in an interview. She sounded like a whiney Millennial with it being all about HER. Typical.

[Sea Six]

Anyone with any leadership ability at all should see Ebola as an imminent threat to Americans and do whatever is necessary to eliminate/minimize that threat. Politics/popularity of what is done should be disregarded. Not quarantining people returning from place where they were/possibly were exposed to Ebola is irresponsible and dangerous.

What happened immediately after 9/11? Planes were grounded, immediate travel restrictions were put in place until some semblance of safety could be restored. Isn't the same danger happening now, but with just a different killer?

:iagree:


"... clear and present danger..."

[Cybercowboy]

I listened to her today in an interview. She sounded like a whiney Millennial with it being all about HER. Typical.

√ √ Democrat
√√ √ Female
√ √ √ √ √ Gay
√ √ √ Liberal-Activist
√ Northeast (Maine)
√ √ Federal Employee

This is why.

[LATB]

We need to re-open the Ellis Island hospital.

Ellis Island Immigrant Hospital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island_Immigrant_Hospital)

ACLU would sue.

[LisaJohn]

I don't understand the uproar about being quarintined. My grandfather was quarintined twice.

[Czarvette]

You have just discovered why you should be voting Libertarian. Yes, it's your business. At last check, YOU pay the taxes, pay the mortgage, pay the salaries, pay the utilities, pay the vendors, etc. The govt. pays none of that, yet they feel they can tell you how you should run your business. They have no skin in the game, unlike you. As a business owner, you should also demand a smaller government that confiscates less of what your business makes. Contrary to the opinion of some, you DID create that business.

You SHOULD be able to discriminate against anyone, for any reason, just as potential customer or vendor should be able to discriminate against you.

Govt. is the only entity that should be barred from discrimination. They MUST treat all citizens equally.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTI1WDEyNDY=/z/9rIAAOxyn9BRaWFe/$T2eC16N,!)sE9swmYkmiBR,WFeprNw~~60_1.JPG

[VITE1]

:iagree: Except the part where we look to China as an example for human rights. :willy:

It's not about rights. The fear is there. If China gets a case of Ebola they do not have the infrastructure to contain it quickly.

Plus they have had recent out breaks of SAR and that Middle eastern flu thing. If two outbreaks happen at the same time in a area like HK, Shanghai or Beijing the crap is really going to hit the fan.

[Barn Babe]

It's not about rights. The fear is there. If China gets a case of Ebola they do not have the infrastructure to contain it quickly.

Plus they have had recent out breaks of SAR and that Middle eastern flu thing. If two outbreaks happen at the same time in a area like HK, Shanghai or Beijing the crap is really going to hit the fan.

I was speaking of the Chinese and their "general" policy on human rights.

[LATB]

If a business chooses to shoot themselves in the foot by not serving certain customers it is their own choice. Granted, it doesn't make them any less of a bigot when it's something like race, but I don't think the government should have any say in the matter.

Not a bigot.

[Czarvette]

Anyone with any leadership ability at all should see Ebola as an imminent threat to Americans and do whatever is necessary to eliminate/minimize that threat. Politics/popularity of what is done should be disregarded. Not quarantining people returning from place where they were/possibly were exposed to Ebola is irresponsible and dangerous.

What happened immediately after 9/11? Planes were grounded, immediate travel restrictions were put in place until some semblance of safety could be restored. Isn't the same danger happening now, but with just a different killer?

The operative phrase is "do whatever is necessary." That's not the same as "all measures, no matter how extreme."

The choices are not between "blithely let people go their merry way," and "detention for involuntary quarantine by force."

Two separate amendments in the Bill of Rights declares that people shall be secure in their persons and no one shall be denied liberty without due process of law (don't have exact wording handy and I'm too lazy to look it up). That means Gov. Christie can't lock someone up (I.e., detain forcefully for quarantine) just because it's popular and/or he thinks she may be dangerous (despite recommendations of medical scientists familiar with Ebola)... any more than he can take her guns on the theory that ownership is a threat to public safety, as many here demanding that the government Do Something To Protect Us would be quick to point out.

[Aerovette]

The operative phrase is "do whatever is necessary." That's not the same as "all measures, no matter how extreme."

The choices are not between "blithely let people go their merry way," and "detention for involuntary quarantine by force."

Two separate amendments in the Bill of Rights declares that people shall be secure in their persons and no one shall be denied liberty without due process of law (don't have exact wording handy and I'm too lazy to look it up). That means Gov. Christie can't lock someone up (I.e., detain forcefully for quarantine) just because it's popular and/or he thinks she may be dangerous (despite recommendations of medical scientists familiar with Ebola)... any more than he can take her guns on the theory that ownership is a threat to public safety, as many here demanding that the government Do Something To Protect Us would be quick to point out.

There is no due process of law that protects us from using an illness as a weapon. By the time you follow the process, it is too late. Better safe than sorry? There is no process that can happen fast enough to 100% ensure we are all safe.

Do you have kids? Tell me you want your kids to spend the day in a classroom with a teacher who just spent three months assisting Ebola caretakers. Yeah, she emptied bedpans and gave them sponge baths to cool their fevers...then flew home Friday and came to your child's classroom Monday.

It is easy to be all for "civil rights" and "fair treatment" as long as it is in Jersey, but seriously consider someone you love, being exposed to a stranger with a temperature one degree below suspicion that has just returned from a high risk activity in a country where Ebola is an epidemic.

I am not attacking, just passionate about trading health and welfare for civil liberties. It is NOT a 1:1 relationship.

The Bill of Right existed when we had polio wards. I'll bet no one was bitching then. Common sense prevailed in the good old days. It is lost today. Traded for PC behavior.

The No Colored Allowed sign does not apply. Being black is neither an illness, nor contagious.

[Czarvette]

If a business chooses to shoot themselves in the foot by not serving certain customers it is their own choice. Granted, it doesn't make them any less of a bigot when it's something like race, but I don't think the government should have any say in the matter.

The Catholic Church, which has put a lot of thought into how people can do bad things (also known as "sinning"), identifies sins of commission, and sins of omission. Neither class of transgressions is deemed in principle to be more or less of a wrongdoing than the other. Catholic faithful pray forgiveness for "things I have done, and things I have failed to do."

As someone pointed out earlier a purpose of government is to protect the weak from the strong. Too long did the government, state and federal, stand idly by and ignore private sector discrimination (as well as public sector discrimination); a sin of omission. It took until the 1940s for the armed forces to desegregate, and until the 1950s for school desegregation, and finally, for civil rights laws of the 1960s to address private sector discrimination.

Market forces failed at correcting these wrongs.

The idea that "it's my money/business/property and I can do what I damn well want with it," has proven to be an untenable assertion in spheres other than equal rights.

[Czarvette]

There is no due process of law that protects us from using an illness as a weapon. By the time you follow the process, it is too late. Better safe than sorry? There is no process that can happen fast enough to 100% ensure we are all safe.

Do you have kids? Tell me you want your kids to spend the day in a classroom with a teacher who just spent three months assisting Ebola caretakers. Yeah, she emptied bedpans and gave them sponge baths to cool their fevers...then flew home Friday and came to your child's classroom Monday.

It is easy to be all for "civil rights" and "fair treatment" as long as it is in Jersey, but seriously consider someone you love, being exposed to a stranger with a temperature one degree below suspicion that has just returned from a high risk activity in a country where Ebola is an epidemic.

I am not attacking, just passionate about trading health and welfare for civil liberties. It is NOT a 1:1 relationship.

The Bill of Right existed when we had polio wards. I'll bet no one was bitching then. Common sense prevailed in the good old days. It is lost today. Traded for PC behavior.

The No Colored Allowed sign does not apply. Being black is neither an illness, nor contagious.

Again, it's a false dichotomy to say that the alternative to forced quarantine is no precaution whatsoever.

[Aerovette]

Again, it's a false dichotomy to say that the alternative to forced quarantine is no precaution whatsoever.

What is your suggested compromise?

I suggest house arrest with a monitored ankle bracelet. That seems reasonable and does not tie up an officer outside the door.

The catch is, if you get caught outside your home, you are arrested for using a biological weapon. These things have GOT to have impact and serious repercussions to be effective.

[Czarvette]

What is your suggested compromise?

I suggest house arrest with a monitored ankle bracelet. That seems reasonable and does not tie up an officer outside the door.

The catch is, if you get caught outside your home, you are arrested for using a biological weapon. These things have GOT to have impact and serious repercussions to be effective.

In the case of health professionals, self-monitoring with mandatory reporting, with no public group contact. For lay people, twice daily monitoring by public health nurse and similar restriction on public group contact.

Ebola is not contagious until symptoms (beginning with significant fever) appear. And even then, it takes direct contact with bodily fluid for transmission to take place. Despite the hype, Ebola does not appear to be easily transmissible. Thomas Duncan's family who lived with him in his apartment in Dallas, have not contracted Ebola even though he was symptomatic and therefore, contagious at the time. The number of cases in West Africa, even after nearly a year and exceedingly poor understanding by the populace of how the disease is transmitted and horrendous sanitary conditions, numbers only 10,000, not hundreds of thousands or millions.

Influenza, on the other hand, is highly infectious: it infects 10s of millions in a 3-4 month season despite a populace who is informed as to good public health habits, partially vaccinated, and has access to skilled medical care.

This not to downplay ebola, but to put it in some context. Nigeria eradicated Ebola with basic public health blocking and tackling: identify, monitor, and track contacts of infected people, isolate those showing symptoms.

What Nigeria can accomplish, so can we.

[Fasglas]

"Visible" symptoms or not. If the individual has spent time in the Ebola suspect area, for ANY reason, I would prefer to err on caution and enforce meaningful quarantine. I believe thinking people agree.

Can't/won't deal with it. Sob, cry & feel ill-used?

Nobody is FORCING you to come here.

[Aerovette]

In the case of health professionals, self-monitoring with mandatory reporting, with no public group contact. For lay people, twice daily monitoring by public health nurse and similar restriction on public group contact.

Ebola is not contagious until symptoms (beginning with significant fever) appear. And even then, it takes direct contact with bodily fluid for transmission to take place. Despite the hype, Ebola does not appear to be easily transmissible. Thomas Duncan's family who lived with him in his apartment in Dallas, have not contracted Ebola even though he was symptomatic and therefore, contagious at the time. The number of cases in West Africa, even after nearly a year and exceedingly poor understanding by the populace of how the disease is transmitted and horrendous sanitary conditions, numbers only 10,000, not hundreds of thousands or millions.

Influenza, on the other hand, is highly infectious: it infects 10s of millions in a 3-4 month season despite a populace who is informed as to good public health habits, partially vaccinated, and has access to skilled medical care.

This not to downplay ebola, but to put it in some context. Nigeria eradicated Ebola with basic public health blocking and tackling: identify, monitor, and track contacts of infected people, isolate those showing symptoms.

What Nigeria can accomplish, so can we.

First bold: Please I mean no offense, but do you actually believe this? What other disease do you know of that behaves this way?

Second bold: Yet, here we are. If the flu is eradicated in Philly, am I safe in Houston?

People cannot be trusted to self-quarantine. That has already proven to be true.

I am NOT saying I believe this, but it is at a minimum, worth consideration as a possible truth.

http://www.libertynews.com/2014/10/exclusive-was-ebola-designed-as-bioterrorism-weapon-and-is-already-airborne-texas-nurse-provides-terrifying-report-breaking-exclusive-report/

[RED-85-Z51]

First bold: Please I mean no offense, but do you actually believe this? What other disease do you know of that behaves this way?

Second bold: Yet, here we are. If the flu is eradicated in Philly, am I safe in Houston?

People cannot be trusted to self-quarantine. That has already proven to be true.

I am NOT saying I believe this, but it is at a minimum, worth consideration as a possible truth.

EXCLUSIVE: Was Ebola Designed as Bioterrorism Weapon and is Already Airborne? Texas Nurse Provides Terrifying Report (BREAKING EXCLUSIVE REPORT) | LibertyNEWS.com (http://www.libertynews.com/2014/10/exclusive-was-ebola-designed-as-bioterrorism-weapon-and-is-already-airborne-texas-nurse-provides-terrifying-report-breaking-exclusive-report/)

HIV/AIDS

But the issue is...people cant stop having sex..and HIV may take YEARS to show up or be a problem, and can take 10 years or more to be erradicate your immune system so you die from a cold...

[Aerovette]

HIV/AIDS

But the issue is...people cant stop having sex..and HIV may take YEARS to show up or be a problem, and can take 10 years or more to be erradicate your immune system so you die from a cold...

Valid point ^ :seasix:

In my head I was actually asking what disease is NOT contagious before there are symptoms. I could not come up with one.

[Czarvette]

First bold: Please I mean no offense, but do you actually believe this? What other disease do you know of that behaves this way?

Second bold: Yet, here we are. If the flu is eradicated in Philly, am I safe in Houston?

People cannot be trusted to self-quarantine. That has already proven to be true.

I am NOT saying I believe this, but it is at a minimum, worth consideration as a possible truth.

EXCLUSIVE: Was Ebola Designed as Bioterrorism Weapon and is Already Airborne? Texas Nurse Provides Terrifying Report (BREAKING EXCLUSIVE REPORT) | LibertyNEWS.com (http://www.libertynews.com/2014/10/exclusive-was-ebola-designed-as-bioterrorism-weapon-and-is-already-airborne-texas-nurse-provides-terrifying-report-breaking-exclusive-report/)

First bold: yes, this what all credible public health organizations are saying. Ebola has been known and studied since the mid-70s. How it's transmitted is well known. You can choose to believe that all major health organizations are misinformed or worse on this point, but this viewpoint lacks credible substantiation.

Infectious diseases are communicable because and when the host organism starts shedding the bacteria or virus that have reproduced in the host. All have an incubation period during which the pathogen is reproducing in the host organism. Two key milestones in the infection are the points at which it becomes communicable (I.e.,reproduced bacteria or virii are being shed by the host) and the point at which it becomes symptomatic (I.e., the host becomes noticeably ill). When this events happens depends on the specific disease. People with hepatitis-A are contagious about a week before symptoms occur. People with the common cold or influence are contagious a day or two before they show symptoms. People with smallpox are contagious only when the characteristic pustules emerge as a rash.

Second bold: like fighting a forest fire, the strategy for fighting an infectious outbreak is divide, contain, and conquer. WHO has declared Senegal to be Ebola-free. No new cases have been detected in over 42 days. Nigeria is on the verge of this declaration (I misspoke in previous post... It's close to, but not quite at 42 days without new cases). The point is that controlling Ebola is not rocket science, just a lot of scrupulous attention to isolation and supportive treatment of symptomatic patients, sanitation, and meticulous tracking and monitoring of this who have been potentially exposed to detect emergent cases. So no, you're not safe in Houston because Philly is Ebola-free, but you ARE safer.. That's why the world can't just ignore Ebola as an "African problem". We are safe only when all other countries are Ebola-free again.

Would forced quarantine of all travelers who have been to West Africa, or people who have had casual contact with with a pre- or actively symptomatic be effective? Of course it would. But at what cost, and with what consequence relative to disease fighting efforts and to tracking travelers to gain what decrease in cases? As one health official noted, forced quarantine is using a sledgehammer to drive a thumbtack. It may work, but with what unintended costs and damages? If we take the position that no measure at prevention and eradication of Ebola is too extreme, then why are we being selective at this potential risk when there are at hand other preventable causes of hundreds, if not thousands of deaths that occur weekly?

[Aerovette]

Question:

Why does the US hold a patent on a disease/virus?

[Rob]

Question: Why does the US hold a patent on a disease/virus?

Because we can ?

[VatorMan]

My wife's company owns the patent on the anthrax vaccine/antidote. Makes a hella lot of money off of it too. Just for your information, they produce it near Detroit Mich. Another reason NOT to visit Detroit. :lol:

[Cybercowboy]

In the case of health professionals, self-monitoring with mandatory reporting, with no public group contact. For lay people, twice daily monitoring by public health nurse and similar restriction on public group contact.

But both the NY Ebola doctor (http://twitchy.com/2014/10/29/report-hero-ebola-doctor-lied-to-the-nypd-said-hed-self-quarantined/) and the NJ Ebola nurse (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/29/ebola-nurse-maine/18105327/) have REFUSED to do anything resembling a self-quarantine. They are openly defying the reasonable requests of various healthcare authorities, because they're special!

And, anyway, ask me how I know you voted for Obama.

[Aerovette]

Question:

Why does the US hold a patent on a disease/virus?

CDC is a .gov
.gov holds the patent on the disease and all strains
.gov owns the cure too.
There is money to be made for the .gov if an epidemic breaks out.
If we are convinced it is nearly impossible to catch, we drop our guard.
Don't drop your guard, ... Sign up for Direct TV

Nearly impossible to catch, but Obama didn't hug her in the hospital did he? Nope, he waited until her release.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/10/barack_obama_hugs_nurse_who_recovered_from_ebola_ronald_reagan_was_silent/457791294-president-barack-obama-gives-a-hug-to-dallas-nurse-nina.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.jpg

[wicked_c6]

Just heard she's being released because she threatened to sue. Ok, if 10 days from now she turns up sick and contaminates someone else, Gov Christie should be allowed to kick her in the box.

With a ebola laced size 12 boot with punk rocker spikes.

[Aerovette]

Interesting site.

No idea about the credibility.

CDC now admits Ebola can spread through the air up to 3 feet away - NaturalNews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/047430_Ebola_airborne_transmission_CDC.html)

[Czarvette]

Per CDC and WHO: someone incubating the Ebola virus is not contagious until symptoms develop. It then takes "direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes) with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected people, and indirect contact with environments contaminated with such fluids" for someone else to be infected.

Monitoring people who may have been exposed to the virus so that they may be isolated should symptoms develop contains the spread of infection (this is NOT what's happening in Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea. This DID happen in Nigeria and Senegal, which are now Ebola-free, or soon-to-be Ebola-free).

Forcible quarantine to accomplish such monitoring is an unreasoned, unprincipled panic response.

You know, the same thing many say about proposals concerning gun ownership after a mass shooting of school children. These proposals, too, are intended to protect the public.

Kaci Hickox is publicly calling bluff on government overreach and standing up for her rights.

[Sea Six]

You're seriously comparing making someone who's been at Ebola ground zero sit in a tent for 21 days, with permanently taking away honest citizens' 2nd Amendment constitutional rights who did nothing wrong?

:skep:

[Czarvette]

You're seriously comparing making someone who's been at Ebola ground zero sit in a tent for 21 days, with permanently taking away honest citizens' 2nd Amendment constitutional rights who did nothing wrong?

:skep:

Indeed I am. A constitutional right is a constitutional right. Let's have a little consistency here on the matter.

Fear does not justify abrogation of those rights.

For example:

You can't just ban guns (or say, require a 21-day waiting period to allow inquiry as to intent to harm) because they look scary and people are afraid of them, right?

You can't ban speech just because you disagree with it.

You can't lock people up "for public safety" because of possibility they might commit a crime.

Or are we only for rights when their application yields results we agree with?

[Sea Six]

I think we should ban Progressives from ever opening their mouths.

:coolest:

[Jeff '79]

Eryn flies into Toronto from Joberg in 24 days. :dance:

Ya, We'll sue if they quarantine her for no reason.
If she misses her med school interviews in the first & second week of December because of propagadal folly, we'll sue everyone that we can. Damn straight.:yesnod:

[Sea Six]

That isn't an Ebola-affected area, so I've got no problem with her not being quarantined.

[Jeff '79]

That isn't an Ebola-affected area, so I've got no problem with her not being quarantined.

You're right on the money but people think Africa and automatically assume the worst.
To put it in real terms, she's from Miami to Fairbanks away from the affected area.
If she was at ground zero, I wouldn't have a problem with her being quarantined for safety purposes. My wife would have had a stroke already if she was...

[Millenium Vette]

Indeed I am. A constitutional right is a constitutional right. Let's have a little consistency here on the matter.

Fear does not justify abrogation of those rights.

For example:

You can't just ban guns (or say, require a 21-day waiting period to allow inquiry as to intent to harm) because they look scary and people are afraid of them, right?

You can't ban speech just because you disagree with it.

You can't lock people up "for public safety" because of possibility they might commit a crime.

Or are we only for rights when their application yields results we agree with?

No rights are absolute.

U.S. Supreme Court

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)

[Sea Six]

No rights are absolute.

U.S. Supreme Court

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)

I personally consider it an infringement on my 1st Amendment Rights when I can't yell "Movie!!" in a crowded Firehouse.


:mad:

[lspencer534]

I personally consider it an infringement on my 1st Amendment Rights when I can't yell "Movie!!" in a crowded Firehouse.


:mad:

That there's some authentic Frontier gibberish, folks! Harrrumph!

[Sea Six]

Harrumph!

[LATB]

Eryn flies into Toronto from Joberg in 24 days. :dance:

Ya, We'll sue if they quarantine her for no reason.
If she misses her med school interviews in the first & second week of December because of propagadal folly, we'll sue everyone that we can. Damn straight.:yesnod:

Better find a pro bono attorney.

[Bill]

Better find a pro bono attorney.

How about a lawyer that doesn't like U2?

[Sea Six]

How about a lawyer that doesn't like U2?

:nono:


That's a Unicorn.

Unicorns don't exist in nature.




Unicorns only exist in the imagation.

[Czarvette]

And they say that now in paris, france, even as we speak, Louis Pasteur has devised a new vaccine that will obliterate anthrax once and for all.

[Sea Six]

And they say that now in paris, france, even as we speak, Louis Pasteur has devised a new vaccine that will obliterate anthrax once and for all.

HE'S A WITCH!!!!

A WITCH, I TELL YOU!!!






er, a warlock. I meant warlock.



:leaving:

[Sea Six]

*tells ya

[Aerovette]

Editor, Lewiston Morning Tribune:

If I wish to import a horse into the United States from Liberia or any African country other than Morocco, the horse needs to undergo a 60 day quarantine period at a USDA approved quarantine facility prior to mingling with the general population of horses in this country. Africa has a disease called African Horse Sickness that does not exist in the US; this is the way we have kept it out of this country. African Horse Sickness does not cause disease in people, only horses; our government has determined that it would be devastating to the US horse industry if it were to come here.

The United States (and virtually all other countries) require a myriad of tests and often quarantine prior to bringing in a foreign animal.

I can’t legally cross state lines in the United States with a horse or cow without a health certificate signed by a USDA accredited veterinarian stating that the animal has been inspected and found free of infectious disease. In most cases blood tests are also required. In fact I can’t legally cross the Snake River and ride my horse in Idaho without a health certificate and a negative blood test for Equine Infectious Anemia.

I’m not complaining; the United States of America, the States of Idaho and Washington as well as the other 48 states take the health of our livestock very seriously, and we have a very good record at keeping foreign animal diseases out of our country. I am happy to do my part to maintain biosecurity in our animal population.

If I am a resident of Liberia incubating Ebola, to enter the United States all I need to do is present a valid visa, and lie when asked if I have been exposed to Ebola. Within hours (no quarantine required) I can be walking the streets of any city in the United States.

I feel very fortunate to live in a country that values our animals so highly.

David A. Rustebakke, DVM