OMG is that what I think it is???

[RED-85-Z51]

FINALLY

[Bill]

Poor quality Chinese knock off engines? Why yes....yes they are.

[wicked_c6]

Your grout is in desperate need of cleaning and mold remedy?

[StaticCling]

Those are Honda clones correct?

[Bill]

Those are Honda clones correct?

They are Handas. While you are there, check out Aisle 6, where the Rolax watches are sold.

[DukeAllen]

You put the paper between your feet to read while you drop a load?

[Mike Mercury]

Briggs & Stratton Vanguard V-Twin Horizontal Engine — 627cc, 1in. x 2 29/32in. Shaft, Model# 386447-3079-G1 | 601cc - 900cc Briggs & Stratton Horizontal Engines| Northern Tool + Equipment (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_278476_278476)

and

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200431131_200431131

and

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200459619_200459619

[DukeAllen]

They are Handas. While you are there, check out Aisle 6, where the Rolax watches are sold.

They sell ex-locs & bagels too.

[mrvette]

Aren't the vast majority of them Chinese these days? :funny:

YUP, and for a grand worth I can keep using the cheep shit.....and if necessary replace it a few times.....

them things like guzzied up lawnmower engines from back in the REEL daze before rotary took over.....

:issues:

[Steve Austin]

The 14 horse B&S on my Snapper Comet is about 22 years old. No problems, I like Briggs stuff. Aint switching.

[RED-85-Z51]

Yes, these engines are made in china. The one im keyed in on is the 600 dollar V-twin, that is a Chinese knockoff of the Honda GX630, and a phenominal value.

To be honest, for about the past 10 years, HONDA engines and parts have been made in China, usually at the very plants that now turn out these knockoffs. The comapnies made quality copies of the molds and stamps, dies....and when the international patents ran out, they started taking them and making knockoff engines. The patents on the twins just ran out..so now...its Vtwin time.


These will sell around 50% to 75% less than name brand comparable engines....with up to a 3 year no questions asked warranty...

[Sea Six]

:dunno:


... ZOMFG not found....

[JRD77VET]

The 14 horse B&S on my Snapper Comet is about 22 years old. No problems, I like Briggs stuff. Aint switching.

Let me sing praises on Briggs and Stratton


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/house/chipper/1859c2c2.jpg~original

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/house/chipper/8632cd39.jpg~original


Yes sir. I'm mighty impressed with those fine engines :leaving:

[RED-85-Z51]

meh, briggs aint a bad engine, just one poor design after another. Its like they do no R&D at all...like Kohlers Courage engines.

[Steve Austin]

Let me sing praises on Briggs and Stratton





Yes sir. I'm mighty impressed with those fine engines :leaving:

Your mileage may vary.:D

[Ruffy]

I'll stick with my Kawasaki

[JRD77VET]

Your mileage may vary.:D

It was running great until it stopped quite suddenly. :slap:

[Mike Mercury]

from the net:

As for China engines, or anything else turning at 3,600RPM for any length of time, they simply can't. The problem is the engines were never designed for running long periods, they were designed for cutting grass. Over time, they don't get enough air, and the overheated parts bind and the whole thing goes bang. Even the Hondas (best I've found need to be the GX series designed for generators or pumps). You can spot them because they don't have throttles. They have larger air cleaners and better cooling and were designed for long run periods.

[RED-85-Z51]

I'll stick with my Kawasaki

Stick with it..until the igniter fails, or the valve guides come loose, or the cam breaks, or the heads crack...

No engine or brand is free from shortfalls.

[RED-85-Z51]

from the net:

That person is completely full of shit Ive been installing chinese engines in place of tecumsehs, briggs and Kohlers for almost 10 years now, and I have YET to see one single solitary failure that was not caused by owner neglect (for got to put oil back in, or took air filter out)...

We ran the 6.5hp HF engiens on gokarts, we took the stock engine, bypassed the governor, put on a longer filter, a fuel pump, and advanced the timing a couple degrees, and spun them up to 6400 rpms all damn night long, with 12oz of oil in them (called for 20), and with 30 of these going at once, all year long...not one failure....not a single mechanical fault.

The fact is, these chinese engines have hardened crank pins, a double ball bearing supported crankshaft, steel cam gears, metal push rod guide plates, steel double walled fuel tank, fuel shutoff valve, multi champbered muffler with guard, etc etc...

Briggs uses plastic tanks, at MOST they use one ball bearings on one end of the crank but only on their premium deluxe psecial ordered engines, all others have a bronze bushing. Plastic cam gears and lobes, non-hardened crank pins, plastic rod guides.

The Chinese engines are SUPERIOR in design, and usually quality, to the point that Briggs, Kohler, and Tecumseh now have plants in china, MAKING Chinese honda clones under their own in-house premium engine nameplates...

Look at thise CH270 "command pro 7hp" engine costing 370 dollars....its made in china, the architecture is based off the Honda GX engine you can get for 99 bucks at HF...

Kohler Command Pro Horizontal Engine — 208cc, 3/4in. x 2 7/16in. Shaft, Model# PA-CH270-3011 | 121cc - 240cc Kohler Horizontal Engines| Northern Tool + Equipment (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200379207_200379207?cm_mmc=Google-pla-_-Engines-_-Kohler%20Horizontal%20Engines-_-706028&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=706028&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=706028&gclid=CKK2zOj6rL4CFW4R7AodUgIAIQ)

This is the Briggs Vanguard Version of the SAME engine...

6.5 Gross HP* Single Cylinder with Transport with TransportGuard? System | Engine | Vanguard Commercial Power (http://www.vanguardengines.com/engines/Single%20Cylinder/65-gross-hp-single/)

[Sea Six]

I've heard the Chinese motors vibrate really bad, to the point where bolts and nuts fall off if you don't remove each of them and put Loctite on them when you first buy it.

That doesn't sound like quality to me. YMMV.

[Mike Mercury]

this is a past generator project; worked out rather well:

http://tim-yvonne.com/generator/gen1.JPG

got the engine new from Northern Hyd; generator head from HF.

more here:
Generator, Harbor Freight, Whole House Generator DIY (http://tim-yvonne.com/generator/)

[Dave]

Poor quality Chinese knock off engines? Why yes....yes they are.

:iagree:

I'll stick with my Kawasaki

I think I'd go with a Chinese POS before getting another Kaw POS.

[RED-85-Z51]

I've heard the Chinese motors vibrate really bad, to the point where bolts and nuts fall off if you don't remove each of them and put Loctite on them when you first buy it.

That doesn't sound like quality to me. YMMV.

Wrong...

The chinese engines are balanced. If you ever take one apart, the crank counter weights on the smaller engines have machining marks and drill holes just like the real deal. The larger engines have a crank driven syncro-balancer just like honda.

I have never heard or seen hardware on a chinese engine "vibrate off"...in fact, having taken a number of them apart, generally the sump and head bolts have locker on them from the factory...and all other bolts have a locking system.

[RED-85-Z51]

Let me tell yo uthe sad sad truth...

Honda patented their legendary GX engine design...they initially built them in Japan, Kyoto as I recall. They made their own parts, blocks, all casting, carbs, etc...

Over time, they found it was cheaper to have the parts made in China...but only some parts, and then...all parts, even flywheels. So they found companies in China, usually the Jiangdong and Chongqing provinces, sold them the tools and dies, machinery...and paid them to make the parts, and ship them to HONDA in Japan for assembly.

Over time..HOnda found it was cheaper just to have the parts assembled and the engines boxed up in China....

When the international patents and copyrights expired on the designs, the companies that had been making these engines and parts, copied the tooling exactly, and started seperate lines, making their own parts and engines. In many cases the engine cowl and tanks went down the same paint lines as hondas.

To cut costs even more, the cloners made a few cuts in quality control..and early early engines proved to be unreliable, some being shipped with loose rods, backwards rods, missing parts, etc....but these issues were quickly rectified and in fact their current quality control, mirrors that of Honda itself.

The metals are the same quality..the parts are the same quality, in fact some people have done torture anf fail testing to find that the chinese parts in some instances are superior to OEM honda....

For safety, in karts...a company was brought on to do a "test to destruction" test on flywheels, to see if they were dafe to rev beyond the factory top speed of 3600. Honda wheels failed as low as like 7200, but some Chinese wheels went beyond 10,000 before the epoxy holding the magnets on, failed...

The cloners were sued, and lost..big time, a multi-million dollar loss. However it was NOT a suit against the copying of the engines, it was a suit against them producing identical looking engines, they were required only to chnge their colors, and muffler shape...the 2 primary identifiers they highlighted....


Good engines, for little money...

[Sea Six]

Wrong...

The chinese engines are balanced. If you ever take one apart, the crank counter weights on the smaller engines have machining marks and drill holes just like the real deal. The larger engines have a crank driven syncro-balancer just like honda.

I have never heard or seen hardware on a chinese engine "vibrate off"...in fact, having taken a number of them apart, generally the sump and head bolts have locker on them from the factory...and all other bolts have a locking system.

:funnier:

I guess all the guys on the vintage Honda forums are wrong then.

:funnier: :funnier: :funnier:

[RED-85-Z51]

:funnier:

I guess all the guys on the vintage Honda forums are wrong then.

:funnier: :funnier: :funnier:

Sounds like you are talking about the GY6 engines, 110cc 4 strokes?

[RED-85-Z51]

The GY6 engines are not terrible, but its a trade-off.

If the engines were any nicer, the cost to buy would go up considerably.

For instance, 110cc OHC, electric start, charging system, 4 up/auto gearbox, ready to go, bolt on your carb and muffler. 325 dollars....

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/dratv_2267_11731089

People run em hard, and they seem to hold up, very easy to rebuild, a whole top end job takes about 30 minutes if the engine is off the frame.

[onedef92]

this is a past generator project; worked out rather well:

http://tim-yvonne.com/generator/gen1.JPG

got the engine new from Northern Hyd; generator head from HF.

more here:
Generator, Harbor Freight, Whole House Generator DIY (http://tim-yvonne.com/generator/)

Does it require protection from the elements? :confused5:

[DropTheTop]

Does it require protection from the elements? :confused5:

Follow his link :thumbs:

[Bill]

Does it require protection from the elements? :confused5:

Suggested title:


Rust Never Sleeps: the MM Generator Story

[Joecooool]

I've sold more than half a million small engines in my lifetime. Everything from Honda, to Briggs, to Kohler, Lombardini, Deutz, Kubota, Suzuki, etc. Its been my experience that the Chinese motors will work well enough in applications where there isn't a ton of use. Residential applications where the engine may only be run a couple of hours a month will usually be fine.

However, it also been my experience that when used in commercial applications, they just don't hold up as well as Hondas. The quality control and specifications Honda uses are vastly superior to the Chinese companies. Honda runs a clean ship with industry certifications and highly trained technicians.

The Chinese have no problem lying about quality control and warranty support. I know several manufacturers over there that for example that claim certification to ISO-9001. Having spoken with several national testing labs, I know that none of the Chinese engine manufacturers are actually certified. The problem is China doesn't give a shit and doesn't punish businesses that lie about what they produce.

For the record, Honda's cheap GC motors are built in China. Their GX engines and parts are made in Thailand.

[Sea Six]

Sounds like you are talking about the GY6 engines, 110cc 4 strokes?

Yes, that looks like what would go on a Honda Trail 70.

[RED-85-Z51]

I've sold more than half a million small engines in my lifetime. Everything from Honda, to Briggs, to Kohler, Lombardini, Deutz, Kubota, Suzuki, etc. Its been my experience that the Chinese motors will work well enough in applications where there isn't a ton of use. Residential applications where the engine may only be run a couple of hours a month will usually be fine.

However, it also been my experience that when used in commercial applications, they just don't hold up as well as Hondas. The quality control and specifications Honda uses are vastly superior to the Chinese companies. Honda runs a clean ship with industry certifications and highly trained technicians.

The Chinese have no problem lying about quality control and warranty support. I know several manufacturers over there that for example that claim certification to ISO-9001. Having spoken with several national testing labs, I know that none of the Chinese engine manufacturers are actually certified. The problem is China doesn't give a shit and doesn't punish businesses that lie about what they produce.

For the record, Honda's cheap GC motors are built in China. Their GX engines and parts are made in Thailand.


Ive bought OEM honda pistons, rids, rings, gasket sets, that had a mix of Thai and Chinese origins...

[RED-85-Z51]

Also, I took a GX390 that blew sky high due to no oil, couple years ago on a power washer. I put in a chinese rod, rings, piston, gaskets, and new carb..I had like 75 in parts in it, and about 45 minutes of my life...

Guy has used it commercially ever since, easily 20 hours a week cleaning sidewalks and siding....never a problem.

Had an 11hp Chinese honda on a lumber mill, it was underpowered and replaced an engine nearly 2X its size and power...so the guy wired the governor wide open, and let it run at valve float...for months and months, before it finally exploded. When it went up, every part of the engine was destroyed.

[onedef92]

Ive bought OEM honda pistons, rids, rings, gasket sets, that had a mix of Thai and Chinese origins...

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate (and shit)."

[jaxgator]

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate (and shit)."

*wooden

[onedef92]

*wooden

BLADE RUNNER - Tears in rain soliloquy.mp4 - YouTube

One of my all-time favorite sci-fi genre soliloquies. :yesnod:

[DukeAllen]

BLADE RUNNER - Tears in rain soliloquy.mp4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpPaGHQHZi0)

One of my all-time favorite sci-fi genre soliloquies. :yesnod:

:iagree: Classic. I just found a 4 disc edition...$5 :D

[Mike Mercury]

Does it require protection from the elements? :confused5:

:yesnod:

from the web page:

http://www.tim-yvonne.com/generator/gs1000b.jpg

http://www.tim-yvonne.com/generator/open.JPG

:cheers:

[Dave]

Gas powered?

Come to think of it, a nice 20+ hp diesel with a 3-phase motor would make an awesome workshop generator....

[RED-85-Z51]

Guy locally had a 4cylinder Kubota Diesel for sale, had the PTO for a generator, was on a stand, had the radiator, fan, fuel tank, etc...he only wanted like 1200 for it, and it ran...

I shoulda jumped on it.