The Pain of Being the Only Engineer in a Business Meeting

[Jeff '79]

My friend, who is an engineer, e-mailed this to me. I guess that he can relate.


The Expert, A Hilarious Sketch About the Pain of Being the Only Engineer in a Business Meeting (http://laughingsquid.com/the-expert-a-hilarious-sketch-about-the-pain-of-being-the-only-engineer-in-a-business-meeting/)

[VatorMan]

Try being the only nuts and bolts guy in a meeting of engineers. Works the same way. :lol:

Worst meeting ever-Engineers, bean counter, me. I almost went to jail that day.

[Jeff '79]

Try being the only nuts and bolts guy in a meeting of engineers. Works the same way. :lol:

Worst meeting ever-Engineers, bean counter, me. I almost went to jail that day.

I'll have to remind him of that.... :yesnod:

[Cybercowboy]

Saw that a couple of weeks ago. :lol:

[DAB]

Btdt.

[8Up]

Yeah, I didnt even have to watch the whole thing. As the only engineer in my market for my company this is kind of my life. I had to sit in a meeting with two salesholes and three Lexington County councilmen one time and witness firsthand the ass kissing and blatant lies that were being told by the salesholes, just to keep the account. I refused to go to any more meetings with them. Then there was the meeting with the Richland County Sheriffs department where sales did pretty much the same thing but the police didnt like their goofy attitudes. I was able to use my Marine bearing and explain why things could and could not be done. Since then I have had some of the cops call me directly to talk about issues. That meeting was actually rather productive and helpful.

[mrvette]

Being a field service rep for the company, flipping me in/out of what seemed like every damn city/airport in the nation......I took minor pleasure when a customer would call and ask for me, and be happy with the solutions I offered.....

and one time I was totally helpless on site, and so was everyone else.....

a year later they found out what was and called ME, not the chiefs.....interesting....:D

[Mike Mercury]

Worst meeting ever-Engineers, bean counter, me. I almost went to jail that day.

for me... worst meeting ever is all engineers - and me, the lone tech.

Engineers assume something will work based on a sheet of paper with mfgrs specs listed. In the real-world... it doesn't always pan-out. :nonod:

Especially worse if the bulk of the engineers...








still live with parents.

[Aerovette]

I am a real-world guy with an engineering mentality so I enjoy being in meetings with Engineers and Techs. It is the Sales guys that paint us in a corner.

Q:Do you want the absolute lowest price for the project, or the best delivery?

A:Yes

[mrvette]

I am a real-world guy with an engineering mentality so I enjoy being in meetings with Engineers and Techs. It is the Sales guys that paint us in a corner.

Q:Do you want the absolute lowest price for the project, or the best delivery?

A:Yes

:issues::rofl: Owner of the company making promises to all sorts of varied clients.....and we trying to come up with trade show prototypes.....which one is more important.....and THAT changed with which client was talked to last....

:issues::rofl::hurray:

[6spdC6]

As a pipefitter working maintaince and new construction at various chemical plants for decades I have see some interesting shit.

Nothing worse than these newbees fresh out of college with a engineering/chemical degrees behind their name.(Their real education is now about to start) They think they are so dammed smart and us people working for many years know nothing.."I have a degree from (insert school of your choice) and I know all about this stuff where did you go to school--- O just shut up and do what I tell you"

Without a doubt we prevented them from blowing up things and quite possibly killing people. Usually they learn a bit and tend to be more understanding about a little input from the people in the trenches, if they keep on phucking up they usually get RIFed and wonder why.

[Aerovette]

I have a friend that is a PE and EE and he said his college earned him a piece of paper, his job earned him an education.

[wicked_c6]

Being a PMP you have no idea how many meetings a day I attend that go just like that. Usually headed up by someone who's only contribution is to throw out corporate jargon speak. Like optimizing throughput, or interfacing business intelligence, or realizing synergistic compatibilities, or aligning core business strategies.

[8Up]

Being a PMP you have no idea how many meetings a day I attend that go just like that. Usually headed up by someone who's only contribution is to throw out corporate jargon speak. Like optimizing throughput, or interfacing business intelligence, or realizing synergistic compatibilities, or aligning core business strategies.

:iagree:

My new most hated busness speak term; 'The ASK'.

Makes me want to rip someones toungue out when I hear it.

[Aerovette]

:iagree:

My new most hated busness speak term; 'The ASK'.

Makes me want to rip someones toungue out when I hear it.

I give...what is the ASK?

[Mike Mercury]

Nothing worse than these newbees fresh out of college with a engineering/chemical degrees ... and probably still living with

parents.

fixt.

[DAB]

I give...what is the ASK?

:iagree:

New one to me.

[onedef92]

http://vimeo.com/85355216

[VITE1]

Have been a non engineer in the technology industry for three decades i can tell you there are enough Assholes in all parts of business that regularly F**k things up.

The Sales hole that promises "We can do it in X weeks" When the Testing time along is X+3 weeks.

The engineer who keeps "Improving" the product he promised two years ago because he can.

The Management who Say "Yes" to massive contracts but have no clue on the complexity of the program they agreed to .


The Bean counters that wonder why you took the Flight on Monday instead of flying out on Sunday but has never been away from home for more than a day.

[VatorMan]

Today was a fine example. Meeting: Contractor EE-We need to run a 15KV line to your substation for the new CoGen plant.
Me: No problem. there are 2 empty conduits-Mouse those and if both are clear use one.
Our EE: NO-They MUST provide their own conduit into the manhole system and run a new conduit to the substation.
Me: You realize the manholes and ductbanks are 50 years old right ? You know what happens when you disturb 50 YO concrete and conduit ?
Our EE: Not my problem.
Me: (thinking):kick:

[CertInsaneC5]

Yup. That is my life everyday. People asking for the impossible at a impossible price point in a totally unrealistic amount of time.

And a lot of them get paid more than I do to basically always be idiots.:slap:

[Jeff '79]

Yup. That is my life everyday. People asking for the impossible at a impossible price point in a totally unrealistic amount of time.

And a lot of them get paid more than I do to basically always be idiots.:slap:

Yet you do it....:seasix:

[CertInsaneC5]

Yet you do it....:seasix:

I love designing and building machinery. It has always been my dream and living it has too. I look forward to going to work every day. The pay is secondary as long as I can live comfortably on it. :cert:

But with every job comes the down side. That would be most of the people I mentioned above. :issues:

[Jeff '79]

I love designing and building machinery. It has always been my dream and living it has too. I look forward to going to work every day. The pay is secondary as long as I can live comfortably on it. :cert:

But with every job comes the down side. That would be most of the people I mentioned above. :issues:

:yesnod: If you find the perfect job, please let me know....:cert:

My friend designs gears for huge wind mills. He manages 15 other engineers and he says the stress is unbelievable.

[DAB]

Long ago, as a young rising engineer, I was informed that they expected me to supervise other engineers as part of my career track.

Screw that. I was quite happy doing engineering stuff.

[8Up]

I give...what is the ASK?

:iagree:

New one to me.

It really means a request from management. I think it must have originated during an internal meeting with India. I really hope to God it's an internal thing to my company.

[JRD77VET]

As a pipefitter working maintaince and new construction at various chemical plants for decades I have see some interesting shit.

Nothing worse than these newbees fresh out of college with a engineering/chemical degrees behind their name.(Their real education is now about to start) They think they are so dammed smart and us people working for many years know nothing.."I have a degree from (insert school of your choice) and I know all about this stuff where did you go to school--- O just shut up and do what I tell you"

Without a doubt we prevented them from blowing up things and quite possibly killing people. Usually they learn a bit and tend to be more understanding about a little input from the people in the trenches, if they keep on phucking up they usually get RIFed and wonder why.

Two of the best engineers I worked with both put themselves thru college working in the shop.

The best of the two, Claire Miller ( :angel: ) was a joy to work with. Well rounded in knowledge and willing to listen to other ideas.

As far as the college know it alls, nothing pisses off a machinist more than dimensions coming from all four corners when the tolerances don't add up. "I know what I'm doing. I drew it, you just make it as it is on the print". :issues:

[onedef92]

It really means a request from management. I think it must have originated during an internal meeting with India. I really hope to God it's an internal thing to my company.

Office Space TPS Reports - YouTube

and shit...

[mrvette]

Two of the best engineers I worked with both put themselves thru college working in the shop.

The best of the two, Claire Miller ( :angel: ) was a joy to work with. Well rounded in knowledge and willing to listen to other ideas.

As far as the college know it alls, nothing pisses off a machinist more than dimensions coming from all four corners when the tolerances don't add up. "I know what I'm doing. I drew it, you just make it as it is on the print". :issues:

~100 years ago, my Father went from home construction to working with engineers at Glen Martin Aircraft later Martin-Marietta he made his own French curve as he was building wings to spec, I passed that piece of metal on down to my son, in Dad's old tool box....Dad never talked much about that experience in any detail, just that he built experimental aircraft/wing designs....

:seasix::hurray:

[Hoog]

Back while I was still working on the floor, we had an IROC (idiot right outta college) tell me "It'll fit, I'm looking at the drawing." Well hey dumbass, I'm about to walk over there and drag your ass up to the vehicle so you can see for yourself that it won't. I suggest you not be still sitting at your desk when I get there.

He met me halfway.

After he walked up to the tank he says. "Oh, it won't fit will it..."

No shit Sherlock.

[RedLS1GTO]

I'm an engineer who happens to have manufacturing experience and (I like to think) I also posess that rare commodity known as common sense.

BOTH sides are equally bad. I have seen more engineers than I can count come up with ideas that aren't even close to sustainable in real world applications and I have seen the nut and bolt guys completely able to quantify their concerns.

"What is out of spec?"

"It doesn't work"

"What number on this drawing is not being met?"

"It doesn't work"

:banghead:

[VatorMan]

I'm an engineer who happens to have manufacturing experience and (I like to think) I also posess that rare commodity known as common sense.

BOTH sides are equally bad. I have seen more engineers than I can count come up with ideas that aren't even close to sustainable in real world applications and I have seen the nut and bolt guys completely able to quantify their concerns.

"What is out of spec?"

"It doesn't work"

"What number on this drawing is not being met?"

"You're the engineer, you figure it out."

:banghead:

Fixed. :lol:

[DAB]

saw a set if plans long ago, prefab building modules to be set on columns topped with weld plates. set adjoining each other. plans called for welding the I beam of the module to the weld plate on top of the column.....on both sides of the I beam....ummm, first one is doable, the second, eh, not so much.....:slap: that was fun to puzzle out at -35F.

[VetteBoy1979]

I'm the saleshole :) Frustrating when the engineers don't mind blurting out crap to burn a deal. Hey man, you won't have a job if you keep saying stupid stuff :) Fun times!

[OddBall]

We have a rotational engineer program for our "IROC"s for the exact reasons stated above. They spend a few years going through all phases of the manufacturing process.

Still stuck with the salesholes though. Kind of a necessary evil.

[8Up]

I'm the saleshole :) Frustrating when the engineers don't mind blurting out crap to burn a deal. Hey man, you won't have a job if you keep saying stupid stuff :) Fun times!

I completely understand that. If I am forced to go to a Sales/Engineering/Customer meeting, I sit quietly. Honest.

Actually these days I usually daydream while nodding my head.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

I really hope to God it's an internal thing to my company.
Nope.

Being a PMP
How are you at bending the cost curve Mr. Project Manager Professional? :D A friend of mine teaches the PMP course.

[LilRedCorvette]

Fast, cheap, reliable...pick two.

[Jeff '79]

Fast, cheap, reliable...pick two.

Really.... :yesnod:

[Sea Six]

I was an electrical engineer working at the system level for eight years. The last year, I was a first-level manager.

Been on my own for the last sixteen years.












God, these past sixteen years have been great. :dance:

[ASTROCREEP]

Two of the best engineers I worked with both put themselves thru college working in the shop.

The best of the two, Claire Miller ( :angel: ) was a joy to work with. Well rounded in knowledge and willing to listen to other ideas.

As far as the college know it alls, nothing pisses off a machinist more than dimensions coming from all four corners when the tolerances don't add up. "I know what I'm doing. I drew it, you just make it as it is on the print". :issues:

I got pissed off just by the dimensions from the four corners.

Pick a datum you ass!:kick:

[JRD77VET]

saw a set if plans long ago, prefab building modules to be set on columns topped with weld plates. set adjoining each other. plans called for welding the I beam of the module to the weld plate on top of the column.....on both sides of the I beam....ummm, first one is doable, the second, eh, not so much.....:slap: that was fun to puzzle out at -35F.

Clair Miller was reviewing prints for a US military flight simulator base/mount we were building. All of a sudden I see a gigantic grin and he starts laughing like mad. I go over to see what humored him and he tells me. There are literally a dozen signatures for people signing off that they have reviewed this assembly.

He grabs the phone and calls the top guy in charge of this project.

Clair --"I've been reviewing the blueprints for the flight simulator top mount and I'll need you to supply me with a midget welder, no taller than 32" , who is certified to mil spec XXXX and willing to spend the rest of his life in this top mount."

Top Guy -- "You know that's a pretty strange request."

Clair explains to him that the weld specs call for continuous welding on inside and outside of a 30" square box, 32" high made out of 1/2" steel plate with cross bracing in the interior.

Top Guy-- " Son of a bitch, I'll have to call you back"

:rofl:

[Frizzle]

Try being the only nuts and bolts guy in a meeting of engineers. Works the same way. :lol:

Worst meeting ever-Engineers, bean counter, me. I almost went to jail that day.

Seriously....


Most "engineers" I run into on the jobsite are horrible. Most of the time I want to just :issues:

[DAB]

Whole lot of class time learning higher level math that is never used again. Very little time getting hands dirty.

[Bill]

For those poo-pooing the lying sacks known as salesmen, consider this:

They are fighting to get the order, and this isn't liberal feel good world, this is real life. Somebody goes home with the order and there are jobs saved for that company, and the others go back empty handed and jobs get cut. Sales is a war, and there is only one winner. You are mad that the salesman made unrealistic promises, or makes you look bad when you can't deliver the impossible. Guess what? There are others in your position at other companies that are losing their jobs because your salesman is a better lying sack than the other guys' salesmen.


Your salesman did what he had to do to get the order. He may feel dirty, and you may be mad, but at least on Friday you both collect a paycheck.

[JRD77VET]

For those poo-pooing the lying sacks known as salesmen, consider this:

They are fighting to get the order, and this isn't liberal feel good world, this is real life. Somebody goes home with the order and there are jobs saved for that company, and the others go back empty handed and jobs get cut. Sales is a war, and there is only one winner. You are mad that the salesman made unrealistic promises, or makes you look bad when you can't deliver the impossible. Guess what? There are others in your position at other companies that are losing their jobs because your salesman is a better lying sack than the other guys' salesmen.


Your salesman did what he had to do to get the order. He may feel dirty, and you may be mad, but at least on Friday you both collect a paycheck.

So lying to get the almighty dollar is a fair trade?

So it would be perfectly acceptable to offer you a Lamborghini for $100K and give you this?
http://www.damngeeky.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Homemade-scrap-metal-Lamborghini-Reventon.jpg

[Bill]

So lying to get the almighty dollar is a fair trade?

So it would be perfectly acceptable to offer you a Lamborghini for $100K and give you this?
http://www.damngeeky.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Homemade-scrap-metal-Lamborghini-Reventon.jpg

Assuming your product or service is pretty much the same as everyone elses' product or service, why is the customer going to choose your company over one of the others?

In a situation like that, it's good to have the guy who can sell refrigerators to eskimos on your side.

[CertInsaneC5]

Assuming your product or service is pretty much the same as everyone elses' product or service, why is the customer going to choose your company over one of the others?

In a situation like that, it's good to have the guy who can sell refrigerators to eskimos on your side.

Uh, no.

Customers talk to each other within their respective industries. You can't deliver on your salesman's outrageous claims? That gets passed around enough, and no one talks to your company ever again. Reputation is everything. And the larger the corporations you sell to, the more important this becomes.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

I work with Mechanical Engineers all day long. Specifically those that do welding projects. Some of them "Get" the welding process, some don't have a clue. In my business there isn't a lot of room for error. Almost everything is governed by a procedure or code.

They're not all bad, not by a long shot. The process typically works like this with the good ones; they call with a specific project or problem. I recommend a welding procedure, help with the design as much as I can, draw it up for them including weld symbols, tell them what's practical and what isn't. They spec out sizes and do all the calcs, then send it back to me for review. It then goes through 10 more reviews and finally it makes it to the field where some smart ass Steamfitter says 'who's the moron that designed this?' :D

[Czarvette]

For those poo-pooing the lying sacks known as salesmen, consider this:

They are fighting to get the order, and this isn't liberal feel good world, this is real life. Somebody goes home with the order and there are jobs saved for that company, and the others go back empty handed and jobs get cut. Sales is a war, and there is only one winner. You are mad that the salesman made unrealistic promises, or makes you look bad when you can't deliver the impossible. Guess what? There are others in your position at other companies that are losing their jobs because your salesman is a better lying sack than the other guys' salesmen.

Your salesman did what he had to do to get the order. He may feel dirty, and you may be mad, but at least on Friday you both collect a paycheck.

"For what profiteth it a man to gain the whole world, but lose his own soul?"

Assuming your product or service is pretty much the same as everyone elses' product or service, why is the customer going to choose your company over one of the others?

In a situation like that, it's good to have the guy who can sell refrigerators to eskimos on your side.

That's a rationalization to avoid excellence. In a world of snakes, be a mongoose. In your example, one could work to differentiate the company from others by working with integrity and honesty to provide service and fulfill promises to the customer. Word will get around. It will surprise your friends and infuriate your competition. You'll attract a better class of customers who don't accept being lied to. :cert:

[VatorMan]

For those poo-pooing the lying sacks known as salesmen, consider this:

They are fighting to get the order, and this isn't liberal feel good world, this is real life. Somebody goes home with the order and there are jobs saved for that company, and the others go back empty handed and jobs get cut. Sales is a war, and there is only one winner. You are mad that the salesman made unrealistic promises, or makes you look bad when you can't deliver the impossible. Guess what? There are others in your position at other companies that are losing their jobs because your salesman is a better lying sack than the other guys' salesmen.


Your salesman did what he had to do to get the order. He may feel dirty, and you may be mad, but at least on Friday you both collect a paycheck.


If you are in sales- no wonder you can't convince the majority here to vote Libertarian. :lol:

[CertInsaneC5]

Fast, cheap, reliable...pick two.

:iagree: It has been my experience that sales only looks at revenue. Mistaking that for profit. They will tell you all day long "we can't sell it for that much." Then often upper management will cut the profit margin on it and wonder why when they sold 10,000 of this widget, it didn't make any money. :kick::slap:

[Bill]

If you are in sales- no wonder you can't convince the majority here to vote Libertarian. :lol:

I try not to do what I just described. Bidding is just one of the hats I wear, and yes, most of our customers are long term. We treat them right, and they try to take care of us. That's getting to be a dying concept. Trying to get new business, though, I can't tell you how many bids I lose. I can't (well, generally won't) compete with low ball bidders, and our hunting lease is just so so, so I lose to the wine and dine payoff guys, and I lose to the low ballers. And as I mentioned, at the end of the day, somebody got all that business I spent time bidding.....and it wasn't me. I guess I'm not a great salesman. :sadangel:

The guy I see most often works for a competitor that has a strategy. Lowball, then try and get close to whomever at the customer's purchasing dept. he needs to. That guy gets all kind of business and keeps a good chunk of it. Unethical yes, but that's life.

[paraphrasing The Rock] The winner goes home and ****s the prom queen. The loser goes home alone. [paraphrasing the rock]

[Bill]

:iagree: It has been my experience that sales only looks at revenue. Mistaking that for profit. They will tell you all day long "we can't sell it for that much." Then often upper management will cut the profit margin on it and wonder why when they sold 10,000 of this widget, it didn't make any money. :kick::slap:

[old GM] If you lose a nickel on each widget, no problem....just make it up with volume. [old GM]



[Chinese saying] Never confuse motion with accomplishment. [Chinese saying]

[CertInsaneC5]

I try not to do what I just described. Bidding is just one of the hats I wear, and yes, most of our customers are long term. We treat them right, and they try to take care of us. That's getting to be a dying concept. Trying to get new business, though, I can't tell you how many bids I lose. I can't (well, generally won't) compete with low ball bidders, and our hunting lease is just so so, so I lose to the wine and dine payoff guys, and I lose to the low ballers. And as I mentioned, at the end of the day, somebody got all that business I spent time bidding.....and it wasn't me. I guess I'm not a great salesman. :sadangel:

The guy I see most often works for a competitor that has a strategy. Lowball, then try and get close to whomever at the customer's purchasing dept. he needs to. That guy gets all kind of business and keeps a good chunk of it. Unethical yes, but that's life.

[paraphrasing The Rock] The winner goes home and ****s the prom queen. The loser goes home alone. [paraphrasing the rock]


I understand where you are coming from on this. Most of the time when a customer leaves us to go cheaper (read china here). They are back within two years max. Begging us to make this "thing" for them, because they can't keep their operation up and running with what they have.

I learned long ago from a very savvy marketing guy. "Sometimes you have to loose a customer to get him back as a better one"

It is so prevalent for companies (or the average consumer) to never look at the Total Cost of Ownership of a capital investment. Sad. It's the Wal-Mart mentality that is killing us. :issues: