Idiot neighbor. Breeder = puppy mill

[SnikPlosskin]

One thing that always pisses me off is people who think all breeders are commercially driven puppy factories. My wife was sharing our challenges with Ranger with one such neighbor who instantly jumped on her high horse about how the breeder was somehow suspect and she only gets dogs via shelters.

Keep in mind, this breeder has a kennel facility that likely cost more than my house that houses about a dozen dogs max. Even with sale prices around $5k for top puppies, it's a money losing venture. The idea is quality over quantity. These guys obsess over the lines and genes of the dogs and love their animals.

Puppy mills, on the other hand are quantity over quality operations that have the animals in squalid conditions for sale to wholesalers. it's all about profit for them and could care less about the dogs.

It's two completely different things. I buy from credentialed breeders and with the exception of Ranger, we end up with very strong, healthy, predictable animals. I buy for temperament first and physical characteristics second. These are inherited traits that can be predicted in carefully bred lines.

With shelter animals, you have zero predicability (just like puppy mills). It's like adopting a kid with no medical history. The kid may be great, but you have no idea what you face.

I also don't buy from pet stores. (where do you think all those puppy mill dogs end up?).

Serious GSD breeders don't just make pretty dogs. They also breed for intelligence and temperament. I understand that exclusive line breeding does cause genetic issues, but the good breeders mix it up enough to minimize it.

I appreciate those who adopt from shelters and I know you can get a great dog that way. But I'm not that interested in just getting a "dog".

I'm interested in getting a German Shepherd that lives up to the standard of the animal as it was designed.

Rant over.

[DAB]

We love our idiot shelter doggie.

http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad214/brinkmancorvette/IMG_0669_zps71e81369.jpg

[SnikPlosskin]

We love our idiot shelter doggie.

http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad214/brinkmancorvette/IMG_0669_zps71e81369.jpg

Not bashing shelter doggies. Bashing morons.

Snake loves all puppies.

Edit: that's a good looking sweet puppy right there.

[DAB]

I know.

She's a sweetie. Leah makes sure I get outside a few times a day.

You have dogs for other reasons.

[Aerovette]

There are many purebred dogs I absolutely love, but my mistrust of the bad breeders and the inability to afford the good ones, leaves me loving my mixed breed dogs all that much more.

[bsmith]

Sadly, I'd bet that the vast majority of breeders are puppy mills.

She didn't know you had a good one...big deal. :shrug:

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

One of my biggest pet peeves is those people who think they're somehow morally superior because they've rescued a dog from a kennel, rather than buying from a breeder. Some people don't care about pedigrees, lines, and everything that goes into a responsible breeding. They SHOULD, but they don't.

Here's the deal; I don't give a fuk WHERE you got Rover from. What I DO give a fuk about is that you live up to your commitment of OWNING a dog.

Sadly, I'd bet that the vast majority of breeders are puppy mills.
No way to know. I know a TON of breeders and NONE of them are puppy mills. But we're not in the business of selling dogs. We're in the business of responsible breeding. And it's an expensive business. :lol:

[SnikPlosskin]

I know.

She's a sweetie. Leah makes sure I get outside a few times a day.

You have dogs for other reasons.

Nah, my reasons are the same. I just have had a life long love of GSDs. I've never owned any other breed. I'm sort of obsessed with them.

A huge part is their sweetness. I love how they look and they amaze me with how adaptable and trainable they are. There is something about their eyes and those ears.

But it doesn't diminish my appreciation for other dogs. Except the tiny ones. Those are gay.

[...Whitepower...]

I adopted my Am Staff/Pit from a rescue group. She was a great dog. I am an advocate of shelters and have dontated hundreds, volunteered many hours, and adopted every single pet i have owned(2 dogs and 2 cats).

That being said, i had to spend about $3500 on both rear ACL's (luxating patella's) to get them repaired. Had i gotten a dog from a reputable breeder the assumption is that i would have probably paid a third of that and gotten a dog who wouldn't have had those issues.. At least that is the assumption.

Makes you wonder..

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/5409_100781876599965_4698732_n.jpg

[Aerovette]

One of my biggest pet peeves is those people who think they're somehow morally superior because they've rescued a dog from a kennel, rather than buying from a breeder. Some people don't care about pedigrees, lines, and everything that goes into a responsible breeding. They SHOULD, but they don't.

Here's the deal; I don't give a fuk WHERE you got Rover from. What I DO give a fuk about is that you live up to your commitment of OWNING a dog.


No way to know. I know a TON of breeders and NONE of them are puppy mills. But we're not in the business of selling dogs. We're in the business of responsible breeding. And it's an expensive business. :lol:

I, on the other hand, feel that someone that rescues a dog from death, should feel special.

Anyone can buy a dog, a special person saves a dog.

[SnikPlosskin]

Sadly, I'd bet that the vast majority of breeders are puppy mills.

She didn't know you had a good one...big deal. :shrug:

I'm not sure about that. I see "breeder" and "puppy mill" as two very different things.

Most states have laws regarding puppy mills. Legitimate breeders have a lot of customers and do shows. You can look into them and see if they are qualified. You also can see by the quality and conditions of the facilities. That's why people should not buy from resellers.

When we buy a dog, we do a lot of research on the breeder and the lines/pedigrees. We also don't jut buymfrommany breeders. We've known our group of breeders for years and we only located them through the German Shepherd Dog Club of America.

One of my biggest pet peeves is those people who think they're somehow morally superior because they've rescued a dog from a kennel, rather than buying from a breeder. Some people don't care about pedigrees, lines, and everything that goes into a responsible breeding. They SHOULD, but they don't.

Here's the deal; I don't give a fuk WHERE you got Rover from. What I DO give a fuk about is that you live up to your commitment of OWNING a dog.

No way to know. I know a TON of breeders and NONE of them are puppy mills. But we're not in the business of selling dogs. We're in the business of responsible breeding. And it's an expensive business. :lol:

Ding ding.

[...Whitepower...]

Here's the deal; I don't give a fuk WHERE you got Rover from. What I DO give a fuk about is that you live up to your commitment of OWNING a dog.




http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr6uiqel0X1r2hybuo1_400.gif

[JRD77VET]

There are many purebred dogs I absolutely love, but my mistrust of the bad breeders and the inability to afford the good ones, leaves me loving my mixed breed dogs all that much more.

After we lost Mochi , we did a lot of research on Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs. We even went to the Westminster Kennel Club show in NY to talk with breeders to see who's good and what to look for.

We had complete confidence when we decided on the Bartons for our Swissy. They do two litter from a female before she's retired. They are also bringing in Swissies from Europe to help diversify the blood line. ( GSMD aren't really popular here in the US, they weren't formally recognized until 1907 in Europe )

Greater Swiss Mountain Dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[SnikPlosskin]

I adopted my Am Staff/Pit from a rescue group. She was a great dog. I am an advocate of shelters and have dontated hundreds, volunteered many hours, and adopted every single pet i have owned(2 dogs and 2 cats).

That being said, i had to spend about $3500 on both rear ACL's (luxating patella's) to get them repaired. Had i gotten a dog from a reputable breeder the assumption is that i would have probably paid a third of that and gotten a dog who wouldn't have had those issues.. At least that is the assumption.

Makes you wonder..

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/5409_100781876599965_4698732_n.jpg

Puppies we buy are screened for disease and certified for hip displasia (with X-rays). They are also guaranteed for common breed problems. They come with certificates detailing all their shots, worming, etc. Breeders put hundreds of dollars into each puppy. They also feed them high end food and keep them until they are 11-12 weeks old.

We also meet the sire and dame.

Keep in mind, I don't buy the high end show dogs. I buy the rejects - the ones that don't fit the standard. Many serious breeders "cull" these dogs. So I actually am rescuing them. They cost $300-$600 usually. Usually the big issue is the coat is too long.

[JRD77VET]

I, on the other hand, feel that some that rescues a dog from death, should feel special.

Anyone can buy a dog, a special person saves a dog.

A special person treats and cares for any animal they own whether rescued or purchased from a breeder. :yesnod:

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

I, on the other hand, feel that some that rescues a dog from death, should feel special.

Anyone can buy a dog, a special person saves a dog.
It's worth mentioning here, that many breeders do some rescue. Including us.

[DAB]

We're pretty sure Leah is mostly Jindo. Not a common breed.

[...Whitepower...]

It's worth mentioning here, that many breeders do some rescue. Including us.

Sidebar..

What percentage of Dalmatians have liver colored spots vs black?:waiting:

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Sidebar..

What percentage of Dalmatians have liver colored spots vs black?:waiting:

Roughly 20-25% liver. We've had two here. Black is always black, but liver comes in several different shades. Some are a chocolate color and some are similar to Doberman reds.

[Aerovette]

A special person treats and cares for any animal they own whether rescued or purchased from a breeder. :yesnod:

I was operating from the assumption that treatment after acquisition was good and equal. Not relevant to my point.

I followed a thread at the other place regarding a dog that was healthy, but dumped because they didn't realize it was going to be such a large dog. If you read the thread, you will see that some special people made a great rescue happen. The OP could have just gone and bought a dog. The point I was making is that a dog at a decent breeder is a) not in trouble and b) not living on borrowed time.

Given that all other aspects are equal, I have a special appreciation for those that rescue dogs that are about to be put down through no fault of their own.

Good on you that you rescue Thomas.

[ApexOversteer]

My wife was sharing our challenges with Ranger with one such neighbor who instantly jumped on her high horse about how the breeder was somehow suspect and she only gets dogs via shelters

Yeah, but is she ready to admit she was wrong about George Zimmerman?

[DAB]

People need to mind their own business, and butt out of others affairs.

[Broken Wind]

In 1991 just after the Gulf War, I picked up a sheltie pup from a mall pet shop in CA. This was before I had an understanding of where the dogs come from and the downside to that. Today, I wouldn't go in or near one of those shops. With that said, that pup turned out to be the best, most beloved dog I ever had, and I've had a dog(s) by my side since the age of two. I lost him in '98, way too soon, and I still get teary eyed when I think about him and what happened to him. Had I known in '91 what I know now, I would have never bought him and would have missed out on everything he was. That continues to conflict me a bit.

[Sneaks]

Breeders= Yes
Rescue/shelters= Yes
Puppy mills= Kill those muthafkers slowly and painfully!
Everyone has their own reasons for getting whatever dog they choose, and from where they get it. As long as they take good care of the new family member, that's what's important.
:thumbsup:

[Brett K]

I can't stand the preaching you get from some of the adoption advocates. I think they do a great service and it is something i want to do in the future. As of right now, i have children and my requirements are very specific. Owning a dog that may have anxieties or people or other dog issues is a concern. Selecti g a puppy based on parent traits, genetics, and raising it from a puppy gives me piece of mind. Doing it this way has served me well and our dogs have been excellent family companions.

I also get a little irritated with the adoption process where you have people telling me how to raise my dog. I understand why they do it, but i have seen it taken way too far.

[onedef92]

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/onedef92/1379981_4897497654447_1090033104_n_zps843e2a30.jpg

We got our Boxer Bruce from a reputable breeder in Campbellsville, Ky. Drove nearly 200 miles to get 'em, but he's worth every mile to us.

[Hoog]

Keep in mind, I don't buy the high end show dogs. I buy the rejects - the ones that don't fit the standard. Many serious breeders "cull" these dogs. So I actually am rescuing them. They cost $300-$600 usually. Usually the big issue is the coat is too long.
We have two Pembroke Welsh Corgis. The male is stunning, show quality, with a temperment and the intelligence we expected. We would bring him out to local events and the dog folks would fawn all over him. The breeders begged us to show him. We were up front with them about wanting a pet that looked and acted like a "real" Corgi, but had no intention of confirmation.

A few years later, after getting the boy clipped, we set out looking for a female pup. Having met a few prominent breeders in our areas, we heard through the network of a available pup in Bradenton. The breeder had arguably the best dogs in the southeast. The pups line was filled with champions, and she was sired by a national event best in breed. Her structure, gate are perfect, but she's a fluffy so....no shows for her.

This breeder was very well respected in the Corgi circles; her show dogs brought top dollar. She still wanted $1k for the pup we were coming to look at even though it was clearly pet quality because of the coat. When I got to the house, I was shocked at how she kept her dogs. Our pup was in the house with a couple other dogs, but you could hear several dogs barking their asses off in the garage.

When the breeder went to put the pup back in her crate (in the garage) after I made it clear I wasn't forking out a grand, I saw the "wall of crates". They were stacked three high against one wall, probably 10-12 dogs. It had to be 120 degrees in there, nobody had water. She had a rotation going where she would let a couple out for a bit then...back in the crates. This is Bradenton Fl in the summer...with a western facing garage...

Already 6 months old, our dog was extremely underweight. Her hair was thin and dry, and her eyes were dull. IMO, the way these dogs were being housed was unconscionable. The best dogs were treated like shit so you know the fluffy wasn't worth the money to treat any better. After an hour or so I finally got the dog for my price ($500), but honestly...I wasn't leaving without that dog. That was a rescue, plain and simple.

Maggie, as we named her, figured out within a couple hours of getting to our house that life had just taken a huge step forward. She quickly gained weight and her hair came in with a vengence. She has grown to be an absolutely wonderful dog. Smart as a whip, to the point of being maniplative of the other dogs. Her and Spencer (the male) are inseprable and at 9 and 12yo respectfully, act more like a old married couple than anything else.

The whole process changed my view on "breeders", and the value some of them put on even the best dogs. Word of mouth is not the end all...you really have to do your homework.

[BigJoe]

We've had our "rescue dog" for 11 years now and loved her every minute. We went the purebred route several times and loved every one of them as well but the expense was high if you are not into showing the dog as compared to a "mutt".
http://www.z06guru.com/images/KDHead.jpg

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

the way these dogs were being housed was unconscionable.
Who did you report these conditions to?

[Hoog]

Who did you report these conditions to?
The next day I told Spencer's breeder about what I saw, within a few weeks the breeder in Bradenton was out of business, so to speak. Maggie was the last pup of the last litter. Apparently several of the dogs I saw were being housed temporarily for another breeder, they were quickly removed. A couple dogs went back to the co-owner in England.

There was an pending divorce, a bankruptcy, and more to the situation than the "clique" let me in on at first and frankly I didn't need to know. I wanted a pup and they wanted to help find that pup a home. I got the feeling that while the local network knew there were personal issues over there, nobody had actually been to the house. I was told Maggie's breeder moved out of the area shortly after this all went down. I assume she's is still on their radar though.

There's a lotta gossip and rumor between and surrounding show folks down here from what I can tell....not sure if you get that in Minnesota.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

There's a lotta gossip and rumor between and surrounding show folks down here from what I can tell....not sure if you get that in Minnesota.
Same thing here. We're hobbyists. Although we are members of the Dalmatian Club of America and we attend our National, we're not really on anyone's radar and I'm perfectly fine with that. Our dogs are our pets first, show dogs second.

We probably placed our best show prospect our last litter. We knew he was the pick for show purposes, but my wife bonded with with one of the other males. There was no way he was leaving this house. :lol: To this very day its a decision we never regretted even though #1 went on to have a successful show career and is producing very nice offspring.

[Hoog]

Our male was clearly the pick of the litter, and the breeder kept him out of sight until we were ready to leave. We didn't want the only other male due to his having one blue eye and horrible markings. Rather than lose the sale, she finally brought out Spencer.

[JRD77VET]

I was operating from the assumption that treatment after acquisition was good and equal. Not relevant to my point.

I followed a thread at the other place regarding a dog that was healthy, but dumped because they didn't realize it was going to be such a large dog. If you read the thread, you will see that some special people made a great rescue happen. The OP could have just gone and bought a dog. The point I was making is that a dog at a decent breeder is a) not in trouble and b) not living on borrowed time.

Given that all other aspects are equal, I have a special appreciation for those that rescue dogs that are about to be put down through no fault of their own.

Good on you that you rescue Thomas.


Although Mochi was a purebred, he was also a rescue. He was brought back to the breeder by the girl who bought him because she figured out a newborn baby and a puppy were too much. :crazy:

We got him when he was 5-1/2 months old. He had plenty of issues ( health ) but we took excellent care of him.

[LisaJohn]

And then there was Fletcher. I failed fostering after the 2011 tornado. He is a survivor. I adopted him from the local humane society. His first family bought him at a pet store.

[LisaJohn]

Oh my! He's upside down.

[JRD77VET]

Oh my! He's upside down.

Australian? :confused5:

:leaving:

[LisaJohn]

Blonde!

[SnikPlosskin]

Point of thread is there is a difference between breeders and puppy mills. Not pure bred vs. rescue.

Just sayin...

Now, could we get back to bashing morons?

[Torqaholic]

I'll take my chances. Free country and all that.

Bought this King Shepherd off a neighbor. Damn nice dog -

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/torqaholic/Jet/jett.jpg

Cute little thang :rofl: -

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/torqaholic/Jet/bite.jpg

And he's very well adjusted... Just can't let him run loose around any farm animals... Especially ducks :rofl:

[SnikPlosskin]

I'll take my chances. Free country and all that.

Bought this King Shepherd off a neighbor. Damn nice dog -

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/torqaholic/Jet/jett.jpg

Cute little thang :rofl: -

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/torqaholic/Jet/bite.jpg

And he's very well adjusted... Just can't let him run loose around any farm animals... Especially ducks :rofl:

Is he a puppy? Those ears look like they pick up radar!

[DAB]

UPS delivered some boxes today. Leah did not like that. Ruffed and barked, which is rare for her, and the hair on her back stood straight up. That was new. Not a fan of strangers.

[Sea Six]

Is he a puppy? Those ears look like they pick up HBO!

Fixt

[Torqaholic]

Is he a puppy? Those ears look like they pick up radar!

Yes, very young in that first picture and not full grown in the other.

Here's a picture of him at a year and a half.. He grew into the ears a little bit :rofl:

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/torqaholic/Jet/jetbob.jpg

And he finally sits still enough to take pictures that aren't blurry :lol:

[StaticCling]

We have two dogs. I adopted Izzy, a Mutt (Beagle Mix) from the North Hollywood Animal Shelter back in 2002. She is going on 13 years old and is still very healthy. She's just a real good dog.

Dixie, our Beagle, was found on the street by my wife 3 years ago. She was malnourished and ill. She was obviously dumped. The dog literally followed my wife home. She's a bit retarded, more than likely a puppy mill dog, but we love her.

[SnikPlosskin]

Yes, very young in that first picture and not full grown in the other.

Here's a picture of him at a year and a half.. He grew into the ears a little bit :rofl:

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/torqaholic/Jet/jetbob.jpg

And he finally sits still enough to take pictures that aren't blurry :lol:

Must....have....King......Shepherd.....:yesnod:

[Torqaholic]

Be aware they are rather large dogs. Jet is long and lanky. Can put his paws on my shoulders and I'm 6'2". I paid $150 for him.

The sire of the litter is rather thick and heavy with some brown in his mane. Very sociable animal. Jet takes after the mom though (other than temperament), he's a spitting image. When I bought him I asked to see her. They asked if I was sure :rofl: Pfff, I'm not scared dogs. They had me wait while double checking the status of her logging chain. I was then escorted down the driveway. When I looked around the corner of the house what I saw about 8 feet away can only be described as Godzilla. Just a mass of huge white teeth, slathering tongue, and insane vocals. I spent about 3 seconds checking her out before disappearing back down the driveway. She wanted no part of my pleasantries and I didn't want her to injure herself.

There is variation in the breed. Some are solid black like Jet, some are blonde, and some a combination of the two. Check out google images for "King Shepherd" and I don't doubt you can find a look you prefer. You'll also get an idea as to the size these dogs can reach.

[SnikPlosskin]

Be aware they are rather large dogs. Jet is long and lanky. Can put his paws on my shoulders and I'm 6'2". I paid $150 for him.

The sire of the litter is rather thick and heavy with some brown in his mane. Very sociable animal. Jet takes after the mom though (other than temperament), he's a spitting image. When I bought him I asked to see her. They asked if I was sure :rofl: Pfff, I'm not scared dogs. They had me wait while double checking the status of her logging chain. I was then escorted down the driveway. When I looked around the corner of the house what I saw about 8 feet away can only be described as Godzilla. Just a mass of huge white teeth, slathering tongue, and insane vocals. I spent about 3 seconds checking her out before disappearing back down the driveway. She wanted no part of my pleasantries and I didn't want her to injure herself.

There is variation in the breed. Some are solid black like Jet, some are blonde, and some a combination of the two. Check out google images for "King Shepherd" and I don't doubt you can find a look you prefer. You'll also get an idea as to the size these dogs can reach.

Have had big dogs my whole life. Always GSDs. Biggest was 112lbs. Didn't know much about King Shepherds. I love that they are huge and look like GSDs.

I'm guessing genetically, they are mostly GSD. Noticed a lot of them are long coated too.

I have an all black GSD now. She looks amazing. All my others have been black and tan.

[onedef92]

Yes, very young in that first picture and not full grown in the other.

Here's a picture of him at a year and a half.. He grew into the ears a little bit :rofl:

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss194/torqaholic/Jet/jetbob.jpg

And he finally sits still enough to take pictures that aren't blurry :lol:

Put camera on "sport mode" next time. :seasix: