These photographs hang in my home...

[lspencer534]

You can feel the raw emotion and defiance from each photo:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2uokoew.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/jtl5pf.jpg

These were taken by Edward S. Curtis (1868-1952). When the Curtis family moved to Port Orchard, Washington in 1887, Edward's gift for photography led him to an investigation of the Indians living on the Seattle waterfront.
His portrait of Chief Seattle's daughter, Princess Angeline, won Curtis the highest award in a photographic contest.

Edward S. Curtis devoted the next 30 years photographing and documenting over eighty tribes west of the Mississippi, from the Mexican border to northern Alaska. Upon its completion in 1930, the work, entitled The North American Indian, consisted of 20 volumes, each containing 75 hand--pressed photogravures and 300 pages of text. Each volume was accompanied by a corresponding portfolio containing at least 3 photogravures.

You can still buy pictures from the original negatives here (I have no financial interest in this), but they ain't cheap:

Edward S. Curtis Gallery - North American Indian Photogravures and Photographs (http://www.edwardscurtis.com/)

[MrPeabody]

The area where I live is rich in Indian history and many businesses here are decorated with photos of Indians from the 1800s. Especially the Casinos.:D

Like all history, I find it interesting.

[C5SilverBullet]

My great grandmother was Native American, and she would tell us stories about how poorly they were treated around town. That is often over looked when talking about the fight for equal rights.

[OddBall]

forgot one

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/visund/ForumFodder/barbPic_zps9fbf07b7.jpg

:D

[NeedSpeed]

:rofl:

[DAB]

white man still making a buck off the native american.

several years ago, we visited the native american museum here in Santa Fe, one of several museums in a complex near downtown. as you enter, there is a sign explaining that not all natives support or agree that their culture and heritage should be displayed in such a setting. they will let you into their culture to a certain degree, but no more. and we, the white man, give them all sorts of grief for wanting to open and operate casinos. still screwing them, a little at a time.

[MrPeabody]

I always say, anyone who feels guilty about the plight of Native Americans can now conveniently pay voluntary restitution at their local Casino.:seasix:

[lspencer534]

forgot one

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/visund/ForumFodder/barbPic_zps9fbf07b7.jpg

:D

How did you get into my house...?

[lspencer534]

I always say, anyone who feels guilty about the plight of Native Americans can now conveniently pay voluntary restitution at their local Casino.:seasix:

The Native American "plight" is a complicated one. While most of them live in poverty, their casinos make millions of dollars each year. For each Tribe member, though, that tranlates to only a few thousand dollars. They do not pay State or Local taxes, so they can sell, say, cars below what they would cost at other dealerships.

But prices on or near the reservarion remain artificially high, like 30 or 40 cents more per gallon of gasoline. It's complicated....

[8Up]

white man still making a buck off the native american.

several years ago, we visited the native american museum here in Santa Fe, one of several museums in a complex near downtown. as you enter, there is a sign explaining that not all natives support or agree that their culture and heritage should be displayed in such a setting. they will let you into their culture to a certain degree, but no more. and we, the white man, give them all sorts of grief for wanting to open and operate casinos. still screwing them, a little at a time.

Yeah well the black man is screwing everybody pretty good right now too.

[MrPeabody]

The Native American "plight" is a complicated one. While most of them live in poverty, their casinos make millions of dollars each year. For each Tribe member, though, that tranlates to only a few thousand dollars. They do not pay State or Local taxes, so they can sell, say, cars below what they would cost at other dealerships.

But prices on or near the reservarion remain artificially high, like 30 or 40 cents more per gallon of gasoline. It's complicated....

Something a lot of people don't realize is the Indians don't usually operate these casinos. One in my county that I have good knowledge of is actually run by the Disney corporation. The tribe is very small, just a few families, and they would not have the education or ability to run it, so they have to contract with an outside corporation to do it.

Each of the people in this small tribe is paid a mere $600 a month from the casino. Over the last decade, they have built some decent housing for themselves, and there is a fine Tribal Health Clinic providing free or at least low cost health care for not only the Indians, but anyone who needs it. This also provides some good paying jobs in the medical field, (my SIL works there as a purchasing manager.) unlike the casinos themselves that provide mostly service sector jobs with minimum wage and tips.

But most of the money leaves the county with the Disney corporation. There are four casinos in my county, and they have not improved unemployment or the local economy. On the contrary, any large business in the county from car dealerships to grocery stores to home improvement centers will tell you they took a 10% hit when these casinos started sucking money out of the county. In short, every dollar lost at the casino is a dollar that will not be spent at other businesses. And the Indians get mere pennies from that dollar. And I may have been wrong in pluralizing pennies.

[lspencer534]

Something a lot of people don't realize is the Indians don't usually operate these casinos. One in my county that I have good knowledge of is actually run by the Disney corporation. The tribe is very small, just a few families, and they would not have the education or ability to run it, so they have to contract with an outside corporation to do it.

Each of the people in this small tribe is paid a mere $600 a month from the casino. Over the last decade, they have built some decent housing for themselves, and there is a fine Tribal Health Clinic providing free or at least low cost health care for not only the Indians, but anyone who needs it. This also provides some good paying jobs in the medical field, (my SIL works there as a purchasing manager.) unlike the casinos themselves that provide mostly service sector jobs with minimum wage and tips.

But most of the money leaves the county with the Disney corporation. There are four casinos in my county, and they have not improved unemployment or the local economy. On the contrary, any large business in the county from car dealerships to grocery stores to home improvement centers will tell you they took a 10% hit when these casinos started sucking money out of the county. In short, every dollar lost at the casino is a dollar that will not be spent at other businesses. And the Indians get mere pennies from that dollar. And I may have been wrong in pluralizing pennies.

Thanks for the insight. I did not know that some casinos are run by something like Disney or anyone other than the Tribe. The Tribe in my State runs its own casino, but the trickle-down effect is very low. Most of the Tribe members live at poverty levels, despite having things like a World-class baseball field on the Reservation.

[99 pewtercoupe]

forgot one

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/visund/ForumFodder/barbPic_zps9fbf07b7.jpg

:D

:lol::rofl::rofl:

[simpleman68]

Plenty of hardships and stories of oppression.

I really enjoy some of the beautiful things that have survived.

Got a couple of Tokeya's cds I haven't listened to in years; some haunting rhythms.
Scott


Tokeya Inajin "Lakota Prayer" - YouTube

[ZipZap]

Really sad that some are now exploited by their own. Greed knows no ethnic boundaries.

For Spence, those photos are really beautiful:seasix:

[ZipZap]

Looking again, are you sure these photos are that old? The second looks much more modern.

[lspencer534]

Looking again, are you sure these photos are that old? The second looks much more modern.

Yes, they're that old, Mine date back to the 1940s. Curtis' photoraphs are very crisp and perfect.

[ZipZap]

Yes, they're that old, Mine date back to the 1940s. Curtis' photoraphs are very crisp and perfect.

It's actually the slight waviness in her hair that is odd. Possibly has some other gene pool in the mix.

[lspencer534]

It's actually the slight waviness in her hair that is odd. Possibly has some other gene pool in the mix.

Yes, could be. I meant to say that my photos are from the 1920s, not the 1940s. There are a few photos, even from te Civil War and WWI that look modern. It all depended upon the photographer's equipment and the time it took to take the photograph. American Indians were particularly good at remaining motionless for a long period of time while the photograph was being taken.

[Grey Ghost]

Family history says my ancestor had to fight with the Indians. He moved from NC to GA. around 1800. He would spend half the day fighting them and the other half trying to build a cabin.

I would love to collect original Civil War glass plate images. Prices range depending on size, quality, and the subject. You can even pick up daguerotype civilian images (just prior to the CW) for $100 or so. Photography was still in it's infancy when the war broke out. It brought the reality and horror of war to the public. You can search the library of Congress online for photos. One thing that will shock you is the clarity of a good CW glass plate image....especially viewing one in person. Those big azz cameras produced images comparable to a hundred megapixel camera (if one existed). You can pick out super fine details.

I recently had this one printed on metal (aluminum sheet) and it hangs on my wall.

http://i.imgur.com/jBOOZe0.jpg

[lspencer534]

Family history says my ancestor had to fight with the Indians. He moved from NC to GA. around 1800. He would spend half the day fighting them and the other half trying to build a cabin.

I would love to collect original Civil War glass plate images. Prices range depending on size, quality, and the subject. You can even pick up daguerotype civilian images (just prior to the CW) for $100 or so. Photography was still in it's infancy when the war broke out. It brought the reality and horror of war to the public. You can search the library of Congress online for photos. One thing that will shock you is the clarity of a good CW glass plate image....especially viewing one in person. Those big azz cameras produced images comparable to a hundred megapixel camera (if one existed). You can pick out super fine details.

I recently had this one printed on metal (aluminum sheet) and it hangs on my wall.

http://i.imgur.com/jBOOZe0.jpg

You are exactly correct. The images from back then are remarkably clear and detailed. Apparently that's what Mr. Curtis did to obtain his images.

[Bucwheat]

Awesome shots

[MrPeabody]

Family history says my ancestor had to fight with the Indians. He moved from NC to GA. around 1800. He would spend half the day fighting them and the other half trying to build a cabin.

I would love to collect original Civil War glass plate images. Prices range depending on size, quality, and the subject. You can even pick up daguerotype civilian images (just prior to the CW) for $100 or so. Photography was still in it's infancy when the war broke out. It brought the reality and horror of war to the public. You can search the library of Congress online for photos. One thing that will shock you is the clarity of a good CW glass plate image....especially viewing one in person. Those big azz cameras produced images comparable to a hundred megapixel camera (if one existed). You can pick out super fine details.

I recently had this one printed on metal (aluminum sheet) and it hangs on my wall.

http://i.imgur.com/jBOOZe0.jpg
That photo was featured and discussed in the PBS Civil War documentary.

IIRC, it's a photo of Confederate soldiers who have been taken POW. Notice they are unarmed, but have been allowed to keep their belongings.

[Grey Ghost]

That photo was featured and discussed in the PBS Civil War documentary.

IIRC, it's a photo of Confederate soldiers who have been taken POW. Notice they are unarmed, but have been allowed to keep their belongings.

:yesnod: It is a famous and universally loved CW photo. It is of three captured Confederates at Gettysburg. After visiting the G'burg battlefield many times. I finally found the exact location it was made this year. It is marked and noted at the location on Seminary Ridge. It is only about a 1/8 mile or less from the Lutheran Seminary, where another famouse image was struck of the man sitting on the fence looking towards the seminary.

The USPS released two stamps back in the summer of Vicksburg and Gettysburg. If you bought (I did) a full sheet the three Confed. image is on the reverse. The soldiers and their exact story was never known. When the stamps were released a man came forward claiming they were his ancestors and told their story. The USPS flew him to the unveiling events. I've heard pros and cons about if his story is true or correct.

P.S. take a close look at the guy in the center. Notice anything strange ?
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go back and look at the black bands on his little finger. Lots of speculation about what they are...

[Grey Ghost]

You are exactly correct. The images from back then are remarkably clear and detailed.

Many historians and reenactors study originals to make an improved and authentic impression. We have a couple of guys that travel to reenactments and strike images with original equip. same process, etc...I've had mine struck a couple of times on glass plate. Tintype, and CDV's were also popular at the time. I have an original CDV of a Union soldier.

[FasterTraffic]

P.S. take a close look at the guy in the center. Notice anything strange ?
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go back and look at the black bands on his little finger. Lots of speculation about what they are...

He tied strings on his finger so he wouldn't forget to surrender?

[Grey Ghost]

Here is an original image that you won't see around too much. Look at how small, young, and the repeating rifles of the members of this dismounted cavalry unit. The flag was hand colored.

http://i.imgur.com/KwKfXMO.jpg

[FasterTraffic]

Here is an original image that you won't see around too much. Look at how small, young, and the repeating rifles of the members of this dismounted calvary unit.

Isn't a dismounted cavalry unit just an infantry unit?

:D

[MrPeabody]

:yesnod: It is a famous and universally loved CW photo. It is of three captured Confederates at Gettysburg. After visiting the G'burg battlefield many times. I finally found the exact location it was made this year. It is marked and noted at the location on Seminary Ridge. It is only about a 1/8 mile or less from the Lutheran Seminary, where another famouse image was struck of the man sitting on the fence looking towards the seminary.

The USPS released two stamps back in the summer of Vicksburg and Gettysburg. If you bought (I did) a full sheet the three Confed. image is on the reverse. The soldiers and their exact story was never known. When the stamps were released a man came forward claiming they were his ancestors and told their story. The USPS flew him to the unveiling events. I've heard pros and cons about if his story is true or correct.

P.S. take a close look at the guy in the center. Notice anything strange ?
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go back and look at the black bands on his little finger. Lots of speculation about what they are...

I would guess a splint on a broken/injured finger?

I remember them remarking on the documentary how even though they are captured, there heads are held high and there dignity appears intact. Especially the guy on the right. His pose and how he hold his arms almost implies arrogance.

[kingpin]

Larry if those pictures are on paper you may think about getting them framed with glass to protect them from any accidental damage and UV damage.

If they are canvas then they are fine.

Just sayin!

[Grey Ghost]

Isn't a dismounted cavalry unit just an infantry unit?

:D

Nope.

[Grey Ghost]

I would guess a splint on a broken/injured finger?


Many have said they didn't have finger splints at the time...especially for a Confed.

Here is the battlefield location today.

http://i.imgur.com/GGe5PDf.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/ydCi3QX.jpg?1

[Grey Ghost]

And a recent debate about an image with Lincoln?

Lincoln Spotted Among Throngs in Rare Gettysburg Photo ? History in the Headlines (http://www.history.com/news/lincoln-spotted-among-throngs-in-rare-gettysburg-photo?cmpid=Social_Facebook_Hith_09272013_1)

[MrPeabody]

Isn't a dismounted cavalry unit just an infantry unit?

:D

Reminds me of a story from the Civil War documentary about shoddy defense contractors trying to make an easy buck.

The Union Army bought thousands of pairs of shoes from a contractor, and the shoes fell apart after just a few miles of marching. When the Army confronted the maker of the shoes about this, he said those were Cavalry shoes, not Infantry shoes. :rofl:

[Milton Fox]

Hey Spence - a question. Is that the Chief and the Princess you noted in the photographs that you have? Or are they someone else. If someone else do you know who they are?

:waiting:

[FasterTraffic]

Reminds me of a story from the Civil War documentary about shoddy defense contractors trying to make an easy buck.

The Union Army bought thousands of pairs of shoes from a contractor, and the shoes fell apart after just a few miles of marching. When the Army confronted the maker of the shoes about this, he said those were Cavalry shoes, not Infantry shoes. :rofl:

:Jeff '79: :Jeff '79: :Jeff '79:

Not to condone what they did but that is epic quick thinking on the part of the salesman. The sheer audacity of giving that as the explanation... :rofl: