{Racing} $#@&! Active Handling. [Archive]

RedLS1GTO

08-27-2013, 8:08am

Isn't your anger a little mis-directed?

I don't think so. A car designed for use on the track (GM's claim) with a system that defaults to "ON" and that when left "ON" tries to kill you. I'd say that's a bit of a design flaw.

I believe there's a mod you can do that automatically turns it off.

I could be wrong but I think you can unplug the steering wheel sensor and disable it. Of course unless you dig into the dash and pull bulbs, then you get the dummy lights which are annoying.

DAB

08-27-2013, 8:09am

Lamont ya big dummy. :slap:

08-27-2013, 8:33am

I don't think so. A car designed for use on the track (GM's claim) with a system that defaults to "ON" and that when left "ON" tries to kill you. I'd say that's a bit of a design flaw.

cars used on the road >>>>>>>>>>>> cars used on the track

Who are you going to build the default for?

Hoog

08-27-2013, 8:37am

I don't think so. A car designed for use on the track (GM's claim) with a system that defaults to "ON" and that when left "ON" tries to kill you. I'd say that's a bit of a design flaw.

Sure...blame the tool...

Stangkiller

08-27-2013, 8:58am

I could be wrong but I think you can unplug the steering wheel sensor and disable it. Of course unless you dig into the dash and pull bulbs, then you get the dummy lights which are annoying.It's called Laptrax, look it up.

Another option would be to retune the car and remove any of the timing or fuel changes the active handling can do.

Y2Kvert4me

08-27-2013, 9:08am

Another option would be to retune the car and remove any of the timing or fuel changes the active handling can do.Active Handling applies brakes, not a PCM function.

Datawiz

08-27-2013, 9:10am

Shut the car off waiting for a cleanup and completely forgot to turn off AH/TC when I fired it back up. What happens if you forget to turn off AH/TC you may ask? The car thinks it's smarter than you, that's what.

:willy:

Xv79d-iHVVs

I effing HATE when I do that. I did that on my first lap this past Sunday. Lap was 7 seconds slower than my fastest lap with everything off. :lol:

DAB

08-27-2013, 9:39am

pre-flight checklist? :slap:

Nemesis

08-27-2013, 9:46am

So, what exactly did the active handling do? The video just looks like you missed your brake point and had an off as a result.

marrepka

08-27-2013, 9:46am

So, what exactly did the active handling do? The video just looks like you missed your brake point and had an off as a result.

I've never done that. :leaving:

Nemesis

08-27-2013, 9:48am

I've never done that. :leaving:

:funny: never!

Stangkiller

08-27-2013, 9:52am

Active Handling applies brakes, not a PCM function.

Can't it be re-programmed just the same? :island14:

Burro (He/Haw)

08-27-2013, 9:54am

What's going in that video beside some turf damage? How is your camera mounted? What kind of camera? What's the dash display thingy at the bottom right and how does that work?

Fastguy

08-27-2013, 10:01am

So, what exactly did the active handling do? The video just looks like you missed your brake point and had an off as a result.

It applies the brakes IN the turn, which as you know is a recipe for a four wheel off.

Loco Vette

08-27-2013, 10:11am

The car thinks it's smarter than you, that's what.

Welllllllll,,,,,, (JK) :D

Mind if I use that in SVT 2013? Do you have a HiRes version? :D

RedLS1GTO

08-27-2013, 10:12am

So, what exactly did the active handling do? The video just looks like you missed your brake point and had an off as a result.

It kept applying left brake and releasing right which meant a.) the car didn't slow down with only left sides applied and b.) it was pulling the car the wrong direction.

It looks like I drove about a half mile too deep but if you listen to the sound, I was actually braking at the 5 (way way early). I wasn't even pushing it. With AH off, it will occasionally kick ABS for a few feet, take a set, and they do their thing. When it started trying to keep me from sliding it was modulating the brakes as opposed to just letting them eat and maybe slide a little. You can see the car jerking left and right from the modulation. Long story short, the pedal was down and the car decided that it didn't want to actually apply the brakes.

RedLS1GTO

08-27-2013, 10:18am

Welllllllll,,,,,, (JK) :D

Mind if I use that in SVT 2013? Do you have a HiRes version? :D

Sir, I would be honored. :D

I'll get you a decent version.

Nemesis

08-27-2013, 10:30am

It applies the brakes IN the turn, which as you know is a recipe for a four wheel off.

It does WHAT?!

It kept applying left brake and releasing right which meant a.) the car didn't slow down with only left sides applied and b.) it was pulling the car the wrong direction.

It looks like I drove about a half mile too deep but if you listen to the sound, I was actually braking at the 5 (way way early). I wasn't even pushing it. With AH off, it will occasionally kick ABS for a few feet, take a set, and they do their thing. When it started trying to keep me from sliding it was modulating the brakes as opposed to just letting them eat and maybe slide a little. You can see the car jerking left and right from the modulation. Long story short, the pedal was down and the car decided that it didn't want to actually apply the brakes.

Ok I see that now. That's the strangest nanny I've ever heard of. That would cause an average driver to wreck.

Stangkiller

08-27-2013, 10:35am

It does WHAT?!

Ok I see that now. That's the strangest nanny I've ever heard of. That would cause an average driver to wreck.

:yesnod: Happens at the drag strip all the time, the active handling basically drives the car into the wall.

RedLS1GTO

08-27-2013, 12:00pm

cars used on the road >>>>>>>>>>>> cars used on the track

Who are you going to build the default for?

It's not too hard. Leave it wherever it was when the car shut off. If it was on before, it is still on. If it was off, it is still off. There is absolutely zero need to make it turn on every time you shut the car off and restart it.

Hoog

08-27-2013, 12:44pm

Other than the liability of one of their customers running into something solid during evasive action because GM didn't make on by default. You want it off, you turn it off....

RedLS1GTO

08-27-2013, 3:43pm

Other than the liability of one of their customers running into something solid during evasive action because GM didn't make on by default. You want it off, you turn it off....

...and if you've ever wondered what the difference is between Porsche and GM.

Designed by racers > designed by lawyers.

Y2Kvert4me

08-27-2013, 3:53pm

Can't it be re-programmed just the same? :island14:Don't recall if the logic resides in the BCM or EBTCM, but either way I'm not aware of any tools capable of accessing/reprogramming it.

Unplugging the SWPS may work (doing so will fault AH) but defeating it automatically at startup can also be done with a simple $20 timing relay and spare the fun of clearing multiple error messages.

Torqaholic

08-27-2013, 4:25pm

Can't see more than a few seconds of your video before it goes black.

I tend not to forget to put mine in "Competitive Mode" (or what I like to call Corvette Mode) but my active handling has never kicked in while the car was under control. Not sure how the computer knows the difference between purposeful wheel sliding and out of control wheel skidding but it apparently does.

And it's super freaking quick. When I get that "oops" feeling AH steps in before I can react. It's close but it definitely gets there first. Seen it 3 times now. So far I don't mind it being there even though it does take all the fun out of recovering a skid on my own. It does do too good of a job though IMO. Definitely not quick enough to return throttle control once the skid is recovered :issues:

VetteBoy1979

08-27-2013, 4:43pm

Ahhh! It looks like each wheel is grabbing brake at different times, I bet you left a mark on the seat. Great job keeping it straight though! :seasix:

The 3 track days I have done I only forgot to turn it off once. Auto-cross, did that a couple of times too :leaving:

Torqaholic

08-27-2013, 4:56pm

It does WHAT?!

...

It straightens the car out. Obviously not a good thing on a curve. Did that to me once on a 120mph sweeper when I chopped the throttle in mid-curve. Saw nothing but trees through the windshield but it was a wide road and I had the inside line. Slowed quick enough to avoid going off road. I learned a good lesson that day other than the fact that a Z06 can stop on a dime... Which I already knew :rofl:

Torqaholic

08-27-2013, 4:57pm

... Great job keeping it straight though!
...

That is what active handling does :lol:

RedLS1GTO

08-27-2013, 4:58pm

What's going in that video beside some turf damage? How is your camera mounted? What kind of camera? What's the dash display thingy at the bottom right and how does that work?

No real damage to anything. The left side air dam got hit... but that could have very well have happened bouncing off of the curbing :leaving:). The forward camera is mounted into the screw hold for the passenger side sun visor. The smaller cam is on the harness bar.

The dash display comes from a program called Dashware with a data logger. I made the Z06 gages with the POW! logo. If anybody uses Dashware, let me know and I can get you the gauges to display. (It works with Harry's and all others that I know of).

Long story short, tt collects data from GPS, an accelerometer, and other inputs and you can see all sorts of stuff once you upload it to the computer. Unfortunately, the guys at ChaseCam are apparently incapable of making an OBDII cable for their own system or else I would be able to grab all of that data as well.

RedLS1GTO

08-27-2013, 5:00pm

That is what active handling does :lol:

I was about to say the same thing... I didn't have a choice but to go straight! :rofl:

It is a bad feeling to just be along for the ride. There was absolutely no input that the car wanted to listen to.

Torqaholic

08-27-2013, 5:06pm

Yup, I have visions of a truck bumper coming at the drivers side window with my foot pressed to the floor and not going anywhere. What a nightmare that would be.

Hoog

08-27-2013, 5:06pm

...and if you've ever wondered what the difference is between Porsche and GM.

Designed by racers > designed by lawyers.
True

I interact with a significant number of Germans at work. Many have said it's insane how litigious we are in the U.S.

allthrottleandsomebottle

08-27-2013, 6:03pm

Well, if ya gotta go off at some speed at VIR........thats a safe least costly way!
I get it at the strip once & and a while doing a burn-out. Gotta turn it on & then right off again and then its :seasix:

I do have the Laptrax in my 01' I have the motor out of.

In a nutshell it is a programable module that interfaces with the BCM to put the car into whatever mode you want at start-up. In stock configuration, the BCM always starts in the all active controls on mode (handling and traction). Then you can select all controls off (except ABS of course) or you can select and get competitive driving mode. Comp mode shuts off traction control but leaves handling control on.

A lot of people like the comp mode all of the time and the laptrax allows this to happen at start up without holding the button down. But the laptrax can be programmed to put the BCM into any of the three modes, at start up, you wish.

I don't think they exist anymore..........

Example:
The Los Angeles Performance Division / LAPD.com - Laptrax C5/Z06 TracActive Controller (http://www.thelapd.com/profile.asp?ID=122&Name=Laptrax+C5/Z06+TracActive+Controller&CategoryID=47)

C5 Chevrolet Corvette Traction Control - Tech Articles - Vette Magazine (http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0303vet_c5_chevrolet_traction_control/)

Y2Kvert4me

08-27-2013, 10:04pm

Question - is there a way to retain traction control in normal driving but to defeat active handling?Buy a 97-00 w/o the Active Handling option. It didn't come standard until 2001.

But if it has Active Handling, then no, there is no TC on/AH off mode..

mike100

08-27-2013, 10:06pm

wow, C5 active handling looks easily confused. I don't know if it is due to stickier tires and higher G's. Not sure if C6 versions fixed that, but I never lost control on my C6 other than annoying power cuts on mild oversteer (I have stock tires still).

The very newest systems set in competition mode do make the car quicker, but 10 year old A/H has got to be primitive in comparison.

Mike Mercury

08-27-2013, 10:33pm

The 99 coming my way has Active Handling.

I was resistant to these "nannies"; but AH saved my butt numerous times. The grip is sooo good on these modern cars, that you get almost no warning when its about to seriously break loose.

I'll take anything and everything that the automakers offer in this relm. But also like being able to adjust/disable them at-will though.

The first time AH saved me, I installed one of those devices that auto-selected the Competitive Driving Mode upon startup.

08-27-2013, 10:36pm

It's not too hard. Leave it wherever it was when the car shut off. If it was on before, it is still on. If it was off, it is still off. There is absolutely zero need to make it turn on every time you shut the car off and restart it.

:iagree:

Nemesis

08-28-2013, 9:08am

Buy a 97-00 w/o the Active Handling option. It didn't come standard until 2001.

But if it has Active Handling, then no, there is no TC on/AH off mode..

Thats kinda crappy.
Now that I think about it, I left the TC on when I took my dads C6 coupe out on the track. I wasn't slamming the brakes, but I never felt this take over. Happy I can warn him about this for next time.

C5SilverBullet

08-28-2013, 9:15am

But if it has Active Handling, then no, there is no TC on/AH off mode..
That sucks. My BMW does that with the push of 1 button.

Nemesis

08-28-2013, 9:18am

I was resistant to these "nannies"; but AH saved my butt numerous times. The grip is sooo good on these modern cars, that you get almost no warning when its about to seriously break loose.

I'll take anything and everything that the automakers offer in this relm. But also like being able to adjust/disable them at-will though.

The first time AH saved me, I installed one of those devices that auto-selected the Competitive Driving Mode upon startup.

I'm curious to hear how it saved you. Clearly active handling was put on the car as a driving assist, but on paper it sounds like more of a hazard than a help.

RED-85-Z51

08-28-2013, 9:19am

reminds me of the first time I tried to do some shit in a C4 with ASR....go into a wet parking lot, crank the wheel to the left...floor it, and do the sharpest, cleanest left turn ever accomplished without a hint of tire spin....****ing BS ASR

C5SilverBullet

08-28-2013, 10:06am

I'm curious to hear how it saved you. Clearly active handling was put on the car as a driving assist, but on paper it sounds like more of a hazard than a help.

:iagree: The only stories I've ever heard about AH is when it causes wrecks.

Loco Vette

08-28-2013, 10:09am

:iagree: The only stories I've ever heard about AH is when it causes wrecks.

Because no one ever admits it when AH saves their arse. (Except Gilligan)

C5SilverBullet

08-28-2013, 10:11am

Because no one ever admits it when AH saves their arose. (Except Gilligan)

Yeah, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, you just never hear anyone talk about it. :lol:

Loco Vette

08-28-2013, 10:18am

Jason was telling me about a guy in a GTR he was instructing who had no idea how hard the car was working to keep him from killing them both. Jason wouldn't let him turn the nannies off. :lol:

C5SilverBullet

08-28-2013, 10:20am

Jason was telling me about a guy in a GTR he was instructing who had no idea how hard the car was working to keep him from killing them both. Jason wouldn't let him turn the nannies off. :lol:

:funnier: I'm sure that story was hilarious.

Torqaholic

08-28-2013, 12:05pm

I'm curious to hear how it saved you. Clearly active handling was put on the car as a driving assist, but on paper it sounds like more of a hazard than a help.

I was coming downhill onto a freeway using a curved onramp in third gear with the go pedal mashed hard and looking back over my shoulder for traffic... Went over a hump in the road that I didn't know was there because it was basically invisible and this was the first time I'd used that ramp.

The car got light and broke traction (TC is off). Rear end began to whip around very fast since my foot was still on the floor. The AH put a stop to that BS straightening the car out and taking me down to granny speed by the time I looked forward to get my bearings. Never got more than a few degrees out of kilter.

Without AH I most certainly would have spun out over the side of the hill and FLOWN down across the paved shoulder and 2 lanes of traffic. Well, not exactly because as I recall there was nobody to merge with but the median was a shallow grass filled ditch and I could very possibly have ended up tangling with oncoming traffic while spinning like a top... Perhaps on my roof.

Torqaholic

08-28-2013, 12:08pm

Because no one ever admits it when AH saves their arse. (Except Gilligan)

We may be related :lol:

island14

08-28-2013, 12:13pm

It applies the brakes IN the turn, which as you know is a recipe for a four wheel off.

I don't want anything messing with my throttle or brakes when I'm driving but me!

RedLS1GTO

08-28-2013, 12:31pm

I don't want anything messing with my throttle or brakes when I'm driving but me!

:iagree:

I'm not the guy who races around entrance ramps or down the highway so I really don't mind it on the street. It is very rare that I take the time to turn it off. I have kicked it on a few times in various situations over the years, generally when it is wet but never would I say that it has "saved" me.

On a track it is very simple. At this level of car, I want the car to do what I tell it to do. Period. Obviously something like the high tech F1 systems would be a different story but that's hardly comparable.

Datawiz

08-28-2013, 2:26pm

:iagree:

I'm not the guy who races around entrance ramps or down the highway so I really don't mind it on the street. It is very rare that I take the time to turn it off. I have kicked it on a few times in various situations over the years, generally when it is wet but never would I say that it has "saved" me.

On a track it is very simple. At this level of car, I want the car to do what I tell it to do. Period. Obviously something like the high tech F1 systems would be a different story but that's hardly comparable.

I don't turn them off on public roads either. Competition Mode is my setting of choice on the street. I run with everything off at the track, but I don't mind a small amount of insurance on public roads, especially in the rain. Full On is too obtrusive, but Competition Mode allows enough play that I can reasonably predict what the car will do in a panic situation, and not try too hard to fight me.