Welders; question

[simpleman68]

I've got a structural engineer coming to give me a quote on welding 1/2" plate steel onto both sides of a 20' iron I beam so I can relocate a support post in the home theater room.

Can you give me a ballpark range as to cost of the steel + welding?
Beam is 8" high and probably 7.5" on the inside where the plate would go.

Thank you for any help you can throw my way. :cert:
Scott

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Any prep work involved? His welder? Field weld or shop? Carbon Steel?

[simpleman68]

Any prep work involved? His welder? Field weld or shop? Carbon Steel?

Maybe prep if they have to remove the red rust resistant paint they apply to residential I beams. I know nadda about welding.
His welder
Not sure on what steel they used in my house. Built in 2006 and the beam is 5X8.
Scott

[Doug28450]

What is the depth of the beam, how wide are the flanges and how thick are the flanges?

[Doug28450]

If the house was built in 2006 it is probably A36 or A529 steel.

[simpleman68]

What is the depth of the beam, how wide are the flanges and how thick are the flanges?

PM sent
On a plane to LA will get back to you soon. :cert:
Scott

[Burro (He/Haw)]

So this weld will be on an existing beam in your house correct? He'll charge you for the machine, probably consumables like rod, and grinding wheels for instance. The plate dimensions will also factor in more than thickness. He'll be putting a fillet weld on it. Maybe 3/16"

[Burro (He/Haw)]

If the house was built in 2006 it is probably A36 or A529 steel.

P1 material. Carbon Steel regardless.

[Doug28450]

Maybe 3/16"

Assuming the 1/2" plates are thicker than the web, this would be the minimum size fillet weld.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Web thickness on an S 20 x 66 beam is .505". :cert:

[Doug28450]

Web thickness on an S 20 x 66 beam is .505". :cert:

Yes.

In a previous post he said it measures 5x8. I'm guessing it is 8" deep and has 5" flanges. An S20x66 is 20" deep with 6.255" flanges. If it is 8" deep with 5" flanges it is probably a W8x21 or a W8x18.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

W8 x 21 is .25" web, .4 flange. :cert:
I think I blew over that. Who has a 20" Wide Flange in his house? :rofl:

[Doug28450]

Who has a 20" Wide Flange in his house? :rofl:

:D:D

Usually, "S" shapes are used for trolley beams.

[RED-85-Z51]

Steel plate is running about 1.25/lb locally, when I buy carbon steel, like 2X2X1/4" angle iron, it runs me about 1.25/lb in the end, in fact even expanded metal mesh ends up around 1.25/lb in most cases.

So if he is supplying the steel plate, then it will likely cost you around 2.00/lb...a 300lb section would run arounf 600 dollars or more.

As for welding, on-site rates tend to be around 75/hr for the first hour, and 60/hr for each subsequent hour, just for welding. If there is prep such as grinding, lifting or cutting the beam or plate...that would be extra.

[simpleman68]

What is the depth of the beam, how wide are the flanges and how thick are the flanges?

Flange is 5.25" about 3/8" thick and beam is 8.25 high/tall
Scott

[Doug28450]

Flange is 5.25" about 3/8" thick and beam is 8.25 high/tall
Scott

W8x21 Flange is 5.27" wide, 3/8" thick and the depth is 8.28"

W8x18 Flange is 5.25" wide, 5/16" thick and the depth is 8.14"

It would appear that you have a W8x21.

[JRD77VET]

I've got a structural engineer coming to give me a quote on welding 1/2" plate steel onto both sides of a 20' iron I beam so I can relocate a support post in the home theater room.

Can you give me a ballpark range as to cost of the steel + welding?
Beam is 8" high and probably 7.5" on the inside where the plate would go.

Thank you for any help you can throw my way. :cert:
Scott

Boy, if only somebody local had a welder :D

220VAC single phase Hobart Handler 187
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/Triples/home%20shop/DCP_5965.jpg

[RED-85-Z51]

I like that Hobart, but I couldnt justify that kind of money...they wanted like 400 for a damn 90 amp.

I paid 199.99 for a HF 170 amp, flux core or gas, 220vac 30 amp plug, Ive put about 60lbs of wire though it and it has been great. 1st one broke early on, had a clog in the tip and I got frustrated and tried to force it, and it actually broke the inner conduit in the hose...HF replaced it no questions asked and didnt even touch my 2yr warranty.

[JRD77VET]

I like that Hobart, but I couldnt justify that kind of money...they wanted like 400 for a damn 90 amp.

I paid 199.99 for a HF 170 amp, flux core or gas, 220vac 30 amp plug, Ive put about 60lbs of wire though it and it has been great. 1st one broke early on, had a clog in the tip and I got frustrated and tried to force it, and it actually broke the inner conduit in the hose...HF replaced it no questions asked and didnt even touch my 2yr warranty.

I got it off craigslist. I went to look at a lathe and the guy mentioned he had the mig for sale. Just serviced with brand new liner and a bunch of spare tips/nozzles for $200 :hurray:

I did have to pay for a bottle since he kept the bottle for his bigger mig.

[LisaJohn]

$748.17

[RED-85-Z51]

I got it off craigslist. I went to look at a lathe and the guy mentioned he had the mig for sale. Just serviced with brand new liner and a bunch of spare tips/nozzles for $200 :hurray:

I did have to pay for a bottle since he kept the bottle for his bigger mig.

The bottle/argon is whats so damned expensive anymore...

Last time I called a small bottle was like 275, and 50 dollar refills...fk that. But then, flux cored wire is murder on the wallet.

[JRD77VET]

The bottle/argon is whats so damned expensive anymore...

Last time I called a small bottle was like 275, and 50 dollar refills...fk that. But then, flux cored wire is murder on the wallet.

I can't have snot glob flux core welds on my parts

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/Triples/parts/DCP_6281.jpg

[RED-85-Z51]

FLux cored welding takes a special touch...but you can get a quality weld..both in function and appearance, with it.

its much much easier to get it with sheilding gas though.

[simpleman68]

Boy, if only somebody local had a welder :D

220VAC single phase Hobart Handler 187
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/Triples/home%20shop/DCP_5965.jpg

Holy Hell! I forgot that was one of your specialties.
I'd be thrilled to have you work on it for me if the engineer tells me we're good to go. :yesnod:

The column to be moved is 11' from the wall now, which I'm told is max for this beam.
I need to push it out to the 15' mark.
He is coming Monday to advise me. I'll keep you posted if it's something you'd be interested in

Now I'm off to meet some degenerates at the Tilted Kilt :D
Scott

[Burro (He/Haw)]

had a clog in the tip and I got frustrated and tried to force it, and it actually broke the inner conduit in the hose
We run Stainless wire through ours at work. It eats up tips and liners like a mofo. Try something called "Nozzel Dip" when your running the squirt gun. :cert:

[JRD77VET]

Holy Hell! I forgot that was one of your specialties.
I'd be thrilled to have you work on it for me if the engineer tells me we're good to go. :yesnod:

The column to be moved is 11' from the wall now, which I'm told is max for this beam.
I need to push it out to the 15' mark.
He is coming Monday to advise me. I'll keep you posted if it's something you'd be interested in

Now I'm off to meet some degenerates at the Tilted Kilt :D
Scott

Keep in touch, I'll use his/your recommendations. I can get steel from Hoover Steel in Schwenksville.

Toss back a frosted dark beer for me :datawiz:

[RED-85-Z51]

We run Stainless wire through ours at work. It eats up tips and liners like a mofo. Try something called "Nozzel Dip" when your running the squirt gun. :cert:

This one, I think was defective, it would plug the tip after about 20 minutes of welding, sometimes going through 2-3 at a time...id have a cup of tips to clean out at the end of the day.

The replacement, same model, same wire, same tips...Im using 1 tip every 2-3 hours, if that. Its great.

I did step up to .035 wire, but I think im going to drop back down to .030....with this machine.

But we've built about a dozen drive on ramps, some car loading ramps, spare tire holders for RV's, welded on a few dozen D-rings and stuff...so far only 1 weld has broken and it was the result of rushed repair. Guy had a Box blade, had broken previously where the left 3pt mount is located, we cut it out, welded it up, and he said after only about an hour it broke again..he was "rooting" with it. I cut all the old weld out, put in some plates and welded it all in..worked great that time.

[simpleman68]

Keep in touch, I'll use his/your recommendations. I can get steel from Hoover Steel in Schwenksville.

Toss back a frosted dark beer for me :datawiz:

Roger that :datawiz::cert:
Scott

[lspencer534]

$748.17

You are so far off that it's laughable! What a neophyte. :rofl: It'll be $748.97.

[LisaJohn]

You are so far off that it's laughable! What a neophyte. :rofl: It'll be $748.97.

Well exxxxcccuuuuse me! He asked for a ballpark figure and that's what I figured.
















:D

[Doug28450]

When you get a chance, sketch the layout that you have now and what you want it to be. I'll check run some calculations and give you some ideas for modifications.

[simpleman68]

When you get a chance, sketch the layout that you have now and what you want it to be. I'll check run some calculations and give you some ideas for modifications.

Will do :cert:
Scott

[RED-85-Z51]

I can do an MSpaint sketch if need be...

[Doug28450]

I can do an MSpaint sketch if need be...

Please do. It will be helpful.

[Black94lt1]

One concern that I would have with welding reinforcing plates in to the existing beam would be the amount of heat transferred to the wood framing attached to it. How do you plan to manage that so that you either don't end up with a fire? Have you considered replacing the beam with a larger one? Do you have a picture of the current configuration?

[Doug28450]

The heat developed during welding is indeed a concern. I've asked Scott to provide some photos and sketches so that I can take a look and provide some alternate repairs, assuming the beam is understrength. Replacing the beam with a larger beam is option, but the existing framing may make that a difficult proposition and there will probably have to be some temporary shoring to facilitate removal and installation. The temporary shoring will not have to be elaborate, but it will be a pain in the rear.

[simpleman68]

The heat developed during welding is indeed a concern. I've asked Scott to provide some photos and sketches so that I can take a look and provide some alternate repairs, assuming the beam is understrength. Replacing the beam with a larger beam is option, but the existing framing may make that a difficult proposition and there will probably have to be some temporary shoring to facilitate removal and installation. The temporary shoring will not have to be elaborate, but it will be a pain in the rear.

I have a pic of the area although its not as close up as would be necessary.
I'm not sure on posting from Pbucket on my iPad but I can text you the pic.

I'll also be home Saturday to get some cleaner shots.

The beam is in the basement and fully exposed. A temporary sister beam would be very easy to setup.
Scott

[JRD77VET]

I have a pic of the area although its not as close up as would be necessary.
I'm not sure on posting from Pbucket on my iPad but I can text you the pic.

I'll also be home Saturday to get some cleaner shots.

The beam is in the basement and fully exposed. A temporary sister beam would be very easy to setup.
Scott

I'll stop up after you know what you want to make sure I feel comfortable welding in your house. Welding fires came off my "fun list" a few decades ago :D

Jeff

[Jeff '79]

C'mon !! Someone give him a friggin' price already ! :wtf:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

C'mon !! Someone give him a friggin' price already ! :wtf:

I know. I backed out. :rofl:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

And fella's? It better look like mine after all this.

3/32" E7018.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj280/Dilemma_1962/ER70S-2-1.jpg

[Jeff '79]

I know. I backed out. :rofl:

C'mon ! $300.00? It can't be more than that.....:waiting:

[JRD77VET]

And fella's? It better look like mine after all this.

3/32" E7018.


That's damn nice work Thomas. :yesnod: Nice pattern and consistant heat width color. :seasix:


If I do the welding for Scott, it'll be mig, Plenty of short welds while checking for "hot spots" :willy:

[Jeff '79]

And fella's? It better look like mine after all this.

3/32" E7018.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj280/Dilemma_1962/ER70S-2-1.jpg

I dunno man... It's lookin' a touch fat 3/4 down the line. You get tired easily, hu?....:rofl:

Nice work there... strait and uniform.....:seasix:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

That's damn nice work Thomas.
Thanks. After 25 years of this shit it had better be right?!

I dunno man... It's lookin' a touch fat 3/4 down the line. You get tired easily, hu?....
Oh shut the hell up. :rofl:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

If I do the welding for Scott, it'll be mig,
My least favorite process by a long shot.

[JRD77VET]

My least favorite process by a long shot.

My arc welder bit the dust about 10 years ago. Plus I'm not welding steam pipe, mig will be fine.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

My arc welder bit the dust about 10 years ago. Plus I'm not welding steam pipe, mig will be fine.

Absolutely. I wasn't saying the process is bad, I just prefer GTAW , then SMAW over MIG by a mile.

[simpleman68]

C'mon !! Someone give him a friggin' price already ! :wtf:

:lol:
I think we've moved past that need already.
Scott

[LisaJohn]

C'mon !! Someone give him a friggin' price already ! :wtf:

I did already and look what it got me! Laughed at and called a name!

[simpleman68]

I'll stop up after you know what you want to make sure I feel comfortable welding in your house. Welding fires came off my "fun list" a few decades ago :D

Jeff

That works. The guy is coming Monday at 1pm to let me know what my options are.
Roasting marshmallows in my "bonfire" isn't on the list. :lol:
Scott

[Jeff '79]

I did already and look what it got me! Laughed at and called a name!

You were a touch high, setting off a bevy of hecklers.....:rofl:
A valiant guess though...:seasix:
I'd really like to know how much it would cost too though... My interest is piqued...
Looks like a six pack....:seasix:

[JRD77VET]

You were a touch high, setting off a bevy of hecklers.....:rofl:
A valiant guess though...:seasix:
I'd really like to know how much it would cost too though... My interest is piqued...
Looks like a six pack....:seasix:

Lisa's price might not be that far off. To get somebody with a portable welding business out is probably $250 just to start the truck. Steel costs have skyrocketed in the past few year too.

[Jeff '79]

Lisa's price might not be that far off. To get somebody with a portable welding business out is probably $250 just to start the truck. Steel costs have skyrocketed in the past few year too.

Hell...I haven't a clue what it would cost.... Be happy with the 6 pack that you'll be drinking while slopping the plates on.....:lol:

[simpleman68]

Hell...I haven't a clue what it would cost.... Be happy with the 6 pack that you'll be drinking while slopping the plates on.....:lol:

Sheit, we're comin' up to finish your barn after my theater room.
We may be too hammered to speak but we'll finish 'er up. :dance:
Scott

[Jeff '79]

Sheit, we're comin' up to finish your barn after my theater room.
We may be too hammered to speak but we'll finish 'er up. :dance:
Scott

:rofl: Gidee up ! Dress warm.......:cert: