View Full Version : Hey Spence, legal Q: can Petraeus be court martialed?
Who is Subject to the Provisions of the UCMJ? (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/ucmjsubject.htm)
Article 2 of the UCMJ. Persons subject to this chapter
(a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:
(1) Members of a regular component of the armed forces, including those awaiting discharge after expiration of their terms of enlistment; volunteers from the time of their muster or acceptance into the armed forces; inductees from the time of their actual induction into the armed forces; and other persons lawfully called or ordered into, or to duty in or for training in, the armed forces, from the dates when they are required by the terms of the call or order to obey it.
(2) Cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipmen.
(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal service.
(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.
.....
according to news reports, the general retired from the Army before hooking up with his mistress.
but if he's still getting pension money...??
lspencer534
11-12-2012, 6:13pm
Who is Subject to the Provisions of the UCMJ? (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/ucmjsubject.htm)
according to news reports, the general retired from the Army before hooking up with his mistress.
but if he's still getting pension money...??
Under the UCMJ, he could. The military penalty remains pretty harsh: up to a year in confinement plus a dishonorable discharge, which entails the forfeiture of all retirement pay. But a soldier's odds of facing such punishment are slim, at least if adultery is all they're charged with. In fact, courts martial on adultery charges alone are almost unheard of; the charge is usually added atop a list of other crimes, like failing to obey orders, lying to a superior, or sexual misconduct. In October, for example, an Air Force enlistee in Colorado pleaded guilty to adultery, along with providing liquor to a minor and engaging in group sex. The man was sentenced to two months of hard labor and a bad conduct discharge. The latter penalty is considered less shameful than a dishonorable discharge, though it usually involves a similar forfeiture of benefits.
Proving adultery under military guidelines is no mean prosecutorial feat. According to Article 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the prosecution must prove that the accused not only committed the indiscretion, but also that his or her conduct "was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces." In other words, the affair must somehow have hampered the military's ability to do its job—say, by lowering morale on a base, or by damaging the public's faith in the armed forces.
In April 2002, President Bush further discouraged adultery prosecutions by issuing an executive order that clarified the circumstances that might necessitate legal action. Although the order maintained that "adultery is clearly unacceptable conduct," it also listed a variety of factors that commanders should take into consideration before proceeding with a court martial. These include the accused's rank, the impact of the affair on the involved parties' job performance, and whether any of the hanky-panky took place while the accused was on the clock. [This is a lot copy-and-paste, but it was quicker that way.]
IMHO, what the General did was so stupid that he should be court-martialed. It is elementary that the fear of an affair being uncovered leaves the person engaged in an affair in a vulnerable position. More serious, at least to me, is the Obama administration decision to keep the matter quiet until after the election. I think Obama committed an impeachable offense by exposing the Country to a possible threat to security by not acting sooner.
boracayjohnny
11-12-2012, 6:21pm
Real life:
A then recent retired MSgt was caught "To Catch A Predator" style. He was prosecuted and sent to state prison. The military did not get involved in the prosecution. Could they? Damn right, Uncle can but sometimes decides not to.
...hanky-panky...
does that term of art appear in Blackstone's Commentaries?
http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/blackstone/
mrvette
11-12-2012, 6:23pm
Katy CHRIST!!! what a bullshit attempt at any charges.....
I spent a few weeks on and off with my cousin in North Little Rock Ark, as he was a LT at the time, in the SAC AF base....and it was a bit of a shocker to ME, not being .mil background that all the playing around between him and his fellow occifer's wives.....think I"m kidding?? not ONE BIT!!!!
then upon divorce from my first wife I went south to spend a few months with him and his crowd, and get the legal shit done....and so witnessed the same shit, cousin and Nancy having a very open affair, with her then ~12? y/o daughter in tow.....
AND the comments that this was very common in their world.....
old man to TDY under the silos for time, and wife playing round in the bars.....
:lol::sadangel: All I can tell is of my learning/experiences/conversations....
thing for a nanosecond DC is any better??? really??
seriously????
:sadangel::leaving:
lspencer534
11-12-2012, 6:31pm
does that term of art appear in Blackstone's Commentaries?
William Blackstone: Commentaries on the Laws of England (1765-1769) (http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/blackstone/)
It's right next to habeas credenza.
It's right next to habeas credenza.
i haven't gotten that far. sorry.
i like books with pictures and violence. now...if Dr. Seuss and Tom Clancy would get together....win.
IMHO, what the General did was so stupid that he should be court-martialed. It is elementary that the fear of an affair being uncovered leaves the person engaged in an affair in a vulnerable position. More serious, at least to me, is the Obama administration decision to keep the matter quiet until after the election. I think Obama committed an impeachable offense by exposing the Country to a possible threat to security by not acting sooner.
FWIW:
On Nov. 6, Election Day, the FBI notified Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr. for the first time of the inquiry and its outcome. Officials said they had followed procedures by notifying Petraeus’s intelligence-community superior only when all the facts had been established.
Clapper spoke by telephone with Petraeus that evening and advised him to resign. On Wednesday, Clapper told the White House, which informed President Obama the next morning. Petraeus offered his resignation to Obama that afternoon; Obama accepted it Friday morning.
Source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/lawmakers-want-probe-of-petraeus-investigation/2012/11/11/e5bf452e-2c27-11e2-a99d-5c4203af7b7a_story_1.html)
Cybercowboy
11-12-2012, 7:19pm
Anybody who thinks Obama and Clapper learned of this on Nov. 6th is a very useful idiot.
Would'nt he have to be called back to Active Duty to be tried? I know that back in the days of sail we were told that upon retirement you were transfered to the 'Fleet Reserve'.
99 pewtercoupe
11-12-2012, 8:07pm
i haven't gotten that far. sorry.
i like books with pictures and violence. now...if Dr. Seuss and Tom Clancy would get together....win.
When you find that ...let me know
Thanks
Joecooool
11-13-2012, 10:53am
More serious, at least to me, is the Obama administration decision to keep the matter quiet until after the election. I think Obama committed an impeachable offense by exposing the Country to a possible threat to security by not acting sooner.
Bull fuking shit. Why does your side consistently have to lie to make him look bad? Why do you chose to lesson your own integrity by posting such bullshit?
RedLS1GTO
11-13-2012, 11:02am
Bull fuking shit. Why does your side consistently have to lie to make him look bad? Why do you chose to lesson your own integrity by posting such bullshit?
This coming from the guy who started a thread saying that Mitt Romney dyed his skin to look "more Hispanic." :lolsmile:
(I would post up the rest of the ignorant bullshit and flat out lies you have posted in an effort to make those who disagree with you "look bad" but there simply isn't enough bandwidth.)
It's right next to habeas credenza.
For furniture buyers who have plunked down their hard earned money only to be given excuses and a back order slip, this would be a handy law to have.
"Produce the credenza I paid for, bitches!"
lspencer534
11-13-2012, 11:21am
Bull fuking shit. Why does your side consistently have to lie to make him look bad? Why do you chose to lesson your own integrity by posting such bullshit?
Yes, I have learned lessons about integrity. Perhaps you should do the same.
Yes, I have learned lessons about integrity. Perhaps you should do the same.
you either have it, or you don't. no such thing as having a little integrity.
i got an email this morning, advertising ethics training for engineers....what a waste of time. if you don't know what is right in your heart, you should find a different line of work.
island14
11-13-2012, 11:34am
Bull fuking shit. Why does your side consistently have to lie to make him look bad? Why do you chose to lesson your own integrity by posting such bullshit?
Lets just call, it as it is ok?...
I went to the pub last night and saw a fat chick dancing on a table.
I said to her, "Nice legs."
The girl giggled and said with a smile, "Do you really think so."
I said "Definitely, most tables would have collapsed by now. "
Lets just call, it as it is ok?...
I went to the pub last night and saw a fat chick dancing on a table.
I said to her, "Nice legs."
The girl giggled and said with a smile, "Do you really think so."
I said "Definitely, most tables would have collapsed by now. "
a good carpenter will foresee such shenanigans and design and build his work accordingly. :DAB:
lspencer534
11-13-2012, 11:52am
Lets just call, it as it is ok?...
I went to the pub last night and saw a fat chick dancing on a table.
I said to her, "Nice legs."
The girl giggled and said with a smile, "Do you really think so."
I said "Definitely, most tables would have collapsed by now. "
:rofl:
boracayjohnny
11-13-2012, 2:14pm
:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
F'n Tim.
According to wiki, retirees are subject to the UCMJ. I wonder if that's the threat being used to keep him quiet about something...
They can, but if he says, she says is the only proof, they tend to be reluctant to prosecute.
a cover up is afoot... :leaving:
GentleBen
11-14-2012, 3:45pm
Of course, if we are going to hold a court-martial for GEN Petraeus for having an affair then Paula D. Broadwell, LTC, MI, USAR should also be charged.
It takes two (or more) to have an affair and in these modern times what is good for one should be equally good for the other.
Of course, if we are going to hold a court-martial for GEN Petraeus for having an affair then Paula D. Broadwell, LTC, MI, USAR should also be charged.
It takes two (or more) to have an affair and in these modern times what is good for one should be equally good for the other.
i agree.
try them, convict them (shouldn't be too hard), and strip them of rank and pay. general can retire a colonel for all i care, and hot lips can go back to a PFC.
lspencer534
11-14-2012, 5:15pm
I'm not sure that I'd want to piss off the Director of the CIA. I'm pretty sure they know a bag of dirty tricks....
I'm not sure that I'd want to piss off the Director of the CIA. I'm pretty sure they know a bag of dirty tricks....
pfft. he's a paper pusher there. not a trained covert op.
GentleBen
11-14-2012, 6:16pm
I'm not sure that I'd want to piss off the Former Director of the CIA. I'm pretty sure they know a bag of dirty tricks....
Fixed it for you
DJ_Critterus
11-14-2012, 7:24pm
i agree.
try them, convict them (shouldn't be too hard), and strip them of rank and pay. general can retire a colonel for all i care, and hot lips can go back to a PFC.
I had some bubbas get caught up in affairs but couldn't do shit about it. Matter of fact, LEGAL said that we basically had to show proof they were caught in the act to bring up charges.
theanswriz42
11-14-2012, 7:35pm
All this media craziness is just to take Americans' attention away from the Benghazi attack and the situation in Syria.
DJ_Critterus
11-14-2012, 7:44pm
All this media craziness is just to take Americans' attention away from the Benghazi attack and the situation in Syria.
Hey, look over there.... something shiny!!!
lspencer534
11-14-2012, 7:50pm
All this media craziness is just to take Americans' attention away from the Benghazi attack and the situation in Syria.
:iagree: Obama really fcuked up on this one, and if the truth comes out, there will be Hell to pay. Or at least there should be.
:iagree: Obama really fcuked up on this one, and if the truth comes out, there will be Hell to pay. Or at least there should be.
I doubt it, Americans don't care; kill a diplomat on American soil? Fine, just don't interupt Dancing with the Stars and you can shoot whoever you want.
I'll say this for the Dumocrats, they did a nice job of discrediting, probably, the only "witness" that has any credibility: Petraeus. If he supports Obama, it's because he's being blackmailed, if he slams him, he's just a bitter ex-civil servant (who will soon face charges if he dares). It's pretty brilliant (not that it isn't mostly a self inflicted wound). Still, no way the idiot in the Whitehouse would have come up with this, it has Bill Clinton written all over it.
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