my 7.3 won't start.

[Montehall]

pretty excited about that.
My wife is in Indiana visiting family/sueing tenants, so she has the Impala.

My vette is still torn apart.

and yesterday, I drove to the feed store and when I pulled in the lot, my truck died (2002 F350 7.3) and would not restart. Cranks strong though.
I replaced the fuel filter and Cam Postion sensor, no dice.

at least I can save gas money.

[Bucwheat]

My first guess was the cam postion sensor,is fuel getting to the fuel bowl?

[onedef92]

Are you getting spark? Did you check the coil and ICM?

[Stangkiller]

Are you getting spark? Did you check the coil and ICM?

Is a diesel.

You changed the filter did you prime it enough?

[lander]

Gas? Spark? Isn't the 7.3 a diesel? :confused:

[onedef92]

Is a diesel.

You chamber the filter did you prime it?

My bad. Fuel pump crap out, you reckon? :confused5:

On the tangent tip, the HVAC air diverter door somehow got stuck on my '94 Camry Saturday after my wife drove it to her class.

Theresa said all she did was move the knob from the dash to the dash/feet position because the air was too intense for her tastes, even with the blower fan on low.

The door somehow got stuck in the defrost position and would not blow out the dash vents.

Well, it's too hot for that shet and I sure didn't to break down the entire dash, so I triaged the problem and checked the fuses. They were good, so I next removed the knobs and skeeted the contacts down real good with some electrical circuit cleaner and let it sit overnight. Voila! It worked. Control functionality returned.

Must have been dust/corrosion on the switch that kept the motor from getting current.

[Bucwheat]

Is a diesel.

You changed the filter did you prime it enough?

You don't have to prime the filter in the 7.3

[onedef92]

Have you tried kicking it yet? :D

And the old American standard; duct tape. Can't forget that! :seasix:

[Montehall]

My first guess was the cam postion sensor,is fuel getting to the fuel bowl?

Yes, the bowl is full. Unless the new Cam Sensor is bad too. Orielys was the only place open that had one, and it's thier brand... heard bad things.

Is a diesel.

You changed the filter did you prime it enough?

You don't have to prime the filter in the 7.3

it has a yellow valve on the back of the bowl, and I was told that's a prime, but it's just a drain... either way, yes, there was no air in it.

[Stangkiller]

Yes, the bowl is full. Unless the new Cam Sensor is bad too. Orielys was the only place open that had one, and it's thier brand... heard bad things.





it has a yellow valve on the back of the bowl, and I was told that's a prime, but it's just a drain... either way, yes, there was no air in it.

Not sure how it works on the 7.3's. But I can have fuel in my fuel filter and still not be properly primed. I have to pump the pimer until i can't push it down any longer, thus forcing the fuel into the fuel pump, so it can take over from there.

[mike100]

From my experience, two things cause no injector pulse. No input from the electric pedal and not reaching 500 psi on the high pressure oil pump for the injector drive.

If the check engine light is on, you could scan for the code or observe the tps input to check the electric throttle function...otherwise you need to get a high pressure hydraulic gauge and a couple of feet of hose and fitting from a hydraulic shop to make an oil pressure gauge (like a 2500 psi one).

it could also be the injector driver box too, I suppose.

[mike100]

Even if the fuel rail in the head is poorly primed, probably two or three injectors will get enough fuel to sputter. It is the oil pressure that drives the injectors- you lose that and it is game over for the fuel delivery.

There is actually a wire you can ground out on the hpop to force the pressure to spike to max. You can probably get some action and spot a leaking injector o-ring when you do this test..I think it is the yellow wire on the 3 wire hpop plug.

[mike100]

btw, there is a fuse for the electric throttle pedal circuit- you can check that without any tools-- may as well eliminate that.

[SubZero]

you didn't lower it, did you? :shots:

[Montehall]

you didn't lower it, did you? :shots:
no.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/Wilson1911/Truck/DSCN1867.jpg

[Bucwheat]

When you are cranking it does it smoke? white smoke?

[Montehall]

From my experience, two things cause no injector pulse. No input from the electric pedal and not reaching 500 psi on the high pressure oil pump for the injector drive.

If the check engine light is on, you could scan for the code or observe the tps input to check the electric throttle function...otherwise you need to get a high pressure hydraulic gauge and a couple of feet of hose and fitting from a hydraulic shop to make an oil pressure gauge (like a 2500 psi one).

it could also be the injector driver box too, I suppose.

Even if the fuel rail in the head is poorly primed, probably two or three injectors will get enough fuel to sputter. It is the oil pressure that drives the injectors- you lose that and it is game over for the fuel delivery.

There is actually a wire you can ground out on the hpop to force the pressure to spike to max. You can probably get some action and spot a leaking injector o-ring when you do this test..I think it is the yellow wire on the 3 wire hpop plug.

btw, there is a fuse for the electric throttle pedal circuit- you can check that without any tools-- may as well eliminate that.

cool... I'll have to check that out

[Montehall]

When you are cranking it does it smoke? white smoke?
no smoke.

[Bucwheat]

Then no fuel is getting through.

[Montehall]

Then no fuel is getting through.
right.

[kylebuck]

Damn i wish i could help I dont know 7.3's

[Bucwheat]

I have owned two in 13 years and generally they don't give much problem.I have 289,000 on my current F-350.

[Montehall]

I have owned two in 13 years and generally they don't give much problem.I have 289,000 on my current F-350.
mine has 222322 miles.
first real problem it's given us... besides a grenaded Ujoint.

what about the fuel bowl heater?
7.3 liter powerstroke wont start? Changed Cam sensor/ checked filter still wont start - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum

[Tossin]

A neighbor has had some issues before with his F-250 diesel. I don't know what year or which motor, but he had to replace the EGR valve at least once. May be useful, may not be. Just thought I'd offer it up.

[DaveK88]

The Fuel Bowl heater is blowing a 30 amp fuse. It has happened to me

[Montehall]

not to me :(

wondering if the new Camshaft Position Sensor isn't faulty... it is O'reily's brand.

[Frizzle]

so did you pull the heater so ur not blowing the 30a fuse?

[Montehall]

so did you pull the heater so ur not blowing the 30a fuse?
The fuse wasn't blown, so no.

[JRD77VET]

The fuse wasn't blown, so no.

Check the fuse with a meter. Sometimes they look good but aren't.

[Montehall]

Check the fuse with a meter. Sometimes they look good but aren't.
no need. the symptoms changed with the fuse pulled, the PCM shut off, no gauges or idiot lights.
plugged it back in and everything came back on, still cant the truck

[mike100]

You may have to buy tools. I had a laptop cable and Ford software to get the codes and to read the parameters real time...maybe about $150 from obd-2.com

made my own hpop gauge..$30 at the hydraulic store, plus I had a shop manual on CD that I found somewhere.

You'll need to dig in and follow the diagnostic trees in the book, but you might get enough info from the hpop gauge and the scanner data to figure out what is going on. Probably should seriously consider getting on a diesel forum.

I had a 97 when those were starting to get old, but I'd imagine most of the superduty ones are pretty well past their prime and anything that can go bad is probably well known to peeps on the PSD forums. It is actually fairly straight forward engine control, but you can't shadetree this- you will need to spend a couple of c-notes on tools or just take it to a shop.

[Montehall]

You may have to buy tools. I had a laptop cable and Ford software to get the codes and to read the parameters real time...maybe about $150 from obd-2.com

made my own hpop gauge..$30 at the hydraulic store, plus I had a shop manual on CD that I found somewhere.

You'll need to dig in and follow the diagnostic trees in the book, but you might get enough info from the hpop gauge and the scanner data to figure out what is going on. Probably should seriously consider getting on a diesel forum.

I had a 97 when those were starting to get old, but I'd imagine most of the superduty ones are pretty well past their prime and anything that can go bad is probably well known to peeps on the PSD forums. It is actually fairly straight forward engine control, but you can't shadetree this- you will need to spend a couple of c-notes on tools or just take it to a shop.
I'm going to pick up a Motorcraft CPS this afternoon, give that a try and if that doesn't fix it, I'll have it towed to a dealer.

[Montehall]

so.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/Wilson1911/2012-08-06_16-35-53_445.jpg

[justind]

Wagers on whats wrong? IPR, ICP, HPOP???

[Montehall]

IDM is going to be my worst-case-scenario guess.
best case: connector on CPS is bad.

honest guess:HPOP

[justind]

Hpop will be spendy.

[Stangkiller]

IDM is going to be my worst-case-scenario guess.
best case: connector on CPS is bad.

honest guess:HPOP

Where'd you decide to send it?

[Bill]

Where'd you decide to send it?

"Parting out"

2001 ford f-250 part out (http://houston.craigslist.org/pts/3123036104.html)

[Montehall]

Where'd you decide to send it?
Lonestar Diesel (http://www.lonestardiesel.net)

I later found out that this is the same guy the wrecker company uses when thier trucks need fixin'

it's the HPOP. only building 150psi

[Stangkiller]

Lonestar Diesel (http://www.lonestardiesel.net)

I later found out that this is the same guy the wrecker company uses when thier trucks need fixin'

it's the HPOP. only building 150psi

Uh oh what's the damage gonna be?

[Montehall]

Uh oh what's the damage gonna be?
dunno yet.. he's gonna give me a call in the AM

[Stangkiller]

dunno yet.. he's gonna give me a call in the AM

http://www.dieselsite.com/pdffiles/adrenalineinstallationinstructions.pdf

[Montehall]

http://www.dieselsite.com/pdffiles/adrenalineinstallationinstructions.pdf
I was reading the same thing... doesn't seem too bad, but then its another tow back to the house, and I have a $75 diagnostic fee involved.

[Stangkiller]

I was reading the same thing... doesn't seem too bad, but then its another tow back to the house, and I have a $75 diagnostic fee involved.

So your break even will be about $175. Hopefully it's a fair shop and don't jack the price on the part up too much.

[Montehall]

these instructions are easier to read (more pictures)
http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/mm5/RESOURCES/Riffraff_Diesel_HPOP_Replacement.pdf
The HPOP can be had for about $500, and the IPR for $150

I have no idea what labor is, but I'd imagine $800 to $1000 if I have him do it

[Stangkiller]

these instructions are easier to read (more pictures)
The HPOP can be had for about $500, and the IPR for $150

I have no idea what labor is, but I'd imagine $800 to $1000 if I have him do it

So you're thinking $350 max in labor? Should we start aking bets?

[Montehall]

So you're thinking $350 max in labor? Should we start aking bets?

7 bolts, 4 hoses, 3 connecters, and 3/4 of a quart of oil...

and I've already had the IPR out and the HPOP oil lines off... not that hard.

[Stangkiller]

7 bolts, 4 hoses, 3 connecters, and 3/4 of a quart of oil...

and I've already had the IPR out and the HPOP oil lines off... not that hard.

God I wish my hpfp was that easy :rofl:

[Montehall]

God I wish my hpfp was that easy :rofl:
The ONLY reason I'd have him do is for the guarantee on the work.

[Montehall]

So you're thinking $350 max in labor? Should we start aking bets?

$455 for labor.

$750 for the pump
$35 for the gasket
$260 for the IPR.

$1500 all told.

[Stangkiller]

$455 for labor.

$750 for the pump
$35 for the gasket
$260 for the IPR.

$1500 all told.

Ouch, considering you can pick up the parts for half that, that sucks...unfortunately that's probably close enough it's not worth the hassle of towing it back.

[Montehall]

I was thinking the opposite.
I can get a stage III drag truck all aluminum oil pump for what he's asking for a replacement. I can pick up a reman'd HPOP for $420.
and the IPR's are $200 from Ford.

[Stangkiller]

I was thinking the opposite.
I can get a stage III drag truck all aluminum oil pump for what he's asking for a replacement. I can pick up a reman'd HPOP for $420.
and the IPR's are $200 from Ford.

So you're going to do it yourself?
$ 650 (your cost in parts)
$ 75 (diagnosis fee that would otherwise be waived)
$ 100 (towing)
$ 825 (your cost to do it yourself)
($1,500) Estimated price at shop
$ 675 savings -- I guess that's probably worth your time to do it yourself.

[Montehall]

So you're going to do it yourself?
$ 650 (your cost in parts)
$ 75 (diagnosis fee that would otherwise be waived)
$ 100 (towing)
$ 825 (your cost to do it yourself)
($1,500) Estimated price at shop
$ 675 savings -- I guess that's probably worth your time to do it yourself.
$775

I have AAA.

[Stangkiller]

$775

I have AAA.

That's cool. Before you do that, you might be able to negotiate and have them install your own parts.

[The_Dude]

That's cool. Before you do that, you might be able to negotiate and have them install your own parts.

:iagree: I think I'd just tell him you want an upgraded HPOP and you'll buy your own. The remans aren't as good as the originals. The HPOP blew up in my '99 under warranty. The dealer installed a reman. It's been down on power and fuel economy ever since. It also turns on the CEL with a programmer because it doesn't make enough pressure anymore. One of these days, I'll buy one from riffraff.

[Montehall]

this is what got recommened to me
http://www.dieselsite.com/1994-200373ldieselsiteadrenalinehpop.aspx

but this is what you are talking about?
http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RRD&Product_Code=TE-T500&Category_Code=F731-HPOP-TE

[Montehall]

:iagree: I think I'd just tell him you want an upgraded HPOP and you'll buy your own. The remans aren't as good as the originals. The HPOP blew up in my '99 under warranty. The dealer installed a reman. It's been down on power and fuel economy ever since. It also turns on the CEL with a programmer because it doesn't make enough pressure anymore. One of these days, I'll buy one from riffraff.

if I bought my own parts, he'd want $500 for labor.
oh, and the $750 is for a reman'd pump.

[The_Dude]

this is what got recommened to me
http://www.dieselsite.com/1994-200373ldieselsiteadrenalinehpop.aspx

but this is what you are talking about?
Riffraff Diesel: Terminator T500 HPOP (http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RRD&Product_Code=TE-T500&Category_Code=F731-HPOP-TE)

I haven't looked for a long time. I haven't looked at what riffraff had available, but I've met Clay before, and would throw him the business if I could. He actually has an annual rally about 6 or 7 miles from my house. My original plan was to buy one of the upgraded stock pumps from dieselsite. They're good people too.

[The_Dude]

if I bought my own parts, he'd want $500 for labor.
oh, and the $750 is for a reman'd pump.

Yeah, for $750, you should buy a better pump. Are you running a chip or programmer?

[Montehall]

Yeah, for $750, you should buy a better pump. Are you running a chip or programmer?
nothing like that.
4 inch lift is all the mods there all.

[The_Dude]

nothing like that.
4 inch lift is all the mods there all.
I'm currently on no mods at all too. The CELs bothered me so I gave my programmer to my brother. I really miss the power of the programmer though. Unfortunately, the F250 is pretty low on the priority list for upgrades.

[Montehall]

The Diesel forum I started posting on is saying there's no way he could of narrowed down to the HPOP without doing other tests to rule out the injectors (leak down) and isolating the HPOP from the rails.

But the guy at the shop seems fairly confident about it being the pump.

I know for certain I'm being rake over the coals on the cost of that parts, though.

[The_Dude]

The Diesel forum I started posting on is saying there's no way he could of narrowed down to the HPOP without doing other tests to rule out the injectors (leak down) and isolating the HPOP from the rails.

But the guy at the shop seems fairly confident about it being the pump.

I know for certain I'm being rake over the coals on the cost of that parts, though.

Don't you have well over 200k miles on that truck? I've heard that that's when the injectors start to fail. I guess you don't have much choice but to trust the mechanic. They hate it when you supply the parts. It cuts into their profit and they get unknown parts they can't warranty. I'd still push for him letting you supply the HPOP. You may want a programmer or chip in the future, and I think the truck will just run better anyway.

[Stangkiller]

The Diesel forum I started posting on is saying there's no way he could of narrowed down to the HPOP without doing other tests to rule out the injectors (leak down) and isolating the HPOP from the rails.

But the guy at the shop seems fairly confident about it being the pump.

I know for certain I'm being rake over the coals on the cost of that parts, though.

Well, Worst case, tow it home, throw in the HPOP, if that doesn't fix it the only other thing it could be would be the injectors right?

The thing that bothers me, was it exhibiting ANY problems before it just stopped firing? If it was just instant, that makes me think it could be a clog and not a failed part.

[mike100]

I don't think all the injectors would have gone bad..one bank should still be fine. You can take off the valve covers, ground out the yellow wire in the IPR plug and check to see if any of the injectors are bypassing too much oil out of the drain spout.

I think the reason I got rid of my truck was that sitting on top of that engine and changing injectors all the time (I was trying to make more power) got tiresome.

[Montehall]

I really don't want to pull the valve covers :)

[Montehall]

Well, Worst case, tow it home, throw in the HPOP, if that doesn't fix it the only other thing it could be would be the injectors right?

The thing that bothers me, was it exhibiting ANY problems before it just stopped firing? If it was just instant, that makes me think it could be a clog and not a failed part.
you know, it's done if before, but it's always fired off after waiting a day or even a few hours. It's only happened twice. But this is first time it did while driving.

the last time, it cranked and cranked but would not start, so I yanked the fuel filter, it looked good, so I put it back in and the truck started up.

[Montehall]

So I just went up and talked to the guy.
I asked him to show me how tested the oil pump.
so he plugs the high pressure lines with adapters, and hooks his NGS up, cranks the engine, and shows me 197psi from the ICP.
fair enough.

as far as the price of the parts. He explained to me that he gets all his parts from the Ford dealer up the road, that way, if there is an issue with them, he can just pick up another one.

I can give him my own parts, but he won't guarantee them.

[The_Dude]

I can give him my own parts, but he won't guarantee them.

I'm sure dieselsite will stand behind the HPOP, but you'll eat the labor.

[C5Nate]

http://www.henryfordestate.org/filesmasterbed/dead.jpg

[justind]

http://www.henryfordestate.org/filesmasterbed/dead.jpg

:rofl: So I guess I should ask how your duramax is running, right?

[C5Nate]

:rofl: So I guess I should ask how your duramax is running, right?


Nah, no need. Getting close to 200k, it no longer has to prove anything. :cert:

[Rotorhead]

I really don't want to pull the valve covers :)

Why would you? :slap:

[justind]

Nah, no need. Getting close to 200k, it no longer has to prove anything. :cert:

I guess his 7.3 doesn't have anything to prove either since he has 222xxx on it.

[C5Nate]

I guess his 7.3 doesn't have anything to prove either since he has 222xxx on it.



'cept its dead. :D

[Stangkiller]

'cept its dead. :D

Ford seems to be the right term. Found on Road Dead

[Montehall]

I guess his 7.3 doesn't have anything to prove either since he has 222xxx on it.
223222.5

Ford seems to be the right term. Found on Road Dead
unlike my corvette, which is running like a champ.

[Montehall]

Why would you? :slap:
u have to pull them to check the seals on thr injectors