and in other Supreme court news.....

[mikeg826]

Supreme Court Strikes Down Stolen Valor: You Can Lie About Military Service - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/supreme-court-strikes-stolen-valor-lie-military-service/story?id=16669096)

The Supreme Court struck down the Stolen Valor Act today, saying that the First Amendment defends a person's right to lie -- even if that person is lying about awards and medals won through military service.

The case started in 2007 when California man Xavier Alvarez was convicted under the Stolen Valor Act of 2006 -- federal legislation that made it illegal for people to claim to have won or to wear military medals or ribbons they did not earn. Alvarez had publicly claimed to have won the country's highest military award, the Medal of Honor, but was later revealed to have never served in the military at all.


Alvarez was sentenced to three years probation, a $5,000 fine and community service, but he and his lawyer appealed the decision, saying that the Stolen Valor Act is unconstitutional -- essentially that it violates a person's right to lie.

"The Stolen Valor Act criminalizes pure speech in the form of bare falsity, a mere telling of a lie," Alvarez's attorney, Jonathan Libby said in February. "It doesn't matter whether the lie was told in a public meeting or in a private conversation with a friend or family member."

An appeals court agreed and called the Stolen Valor Act "facially unconstitutional."

In its argument before the Supreme Court, the government said that such specific lies fall under a special category of speech that is not protected by the First Amendment -- when the speech could do harm.

"False claims make the public skeptical of all claims to have received awards, and they inhibit the government's efforts to ensure that the armed services and the public perceive awards as going only to the most deserving few," the government said.


According to several veterans well acquainted with false war stories, claiming you're a medal-winner can be "more than just lying."

"It's not the barroom loudmouth that anyone is interested in," said Don Shipley, a former SEAL who has been given unique access to the SEAL personnel database so he can root out fakers. "People tend to believe what they're told, they use that... They do an awful lot of damage."

Brandon Webb, another former SEAL and founder of the special operations website SOFREP.com, agreed with Shipley that the law was important for going after more than the occasional barstool liar.

Webb told ABC News in February it especially angered him "seeing people take advantage of unknowing good people who are trusting in their story, [people who] use people to get money out of them, get positions."

"Nothing fires me up more than running into these phony Navy SEALs and knowing that I lost over a dozen friends that sacrificed for their country and now these guys are out there trying to take credit," Webb said.

[MrPeabody]

I think I've sat on enough barstools to have met every single Navy Seal who ever served. I've never believed any of them.

[theanswriz42]

I think I've sat on enough barstools to have met every single Navy Seal who ever served. I've never believed any of them.
:lol: Yeah, it never ceases to amaze me how many people were allegedly in the "special forces" :rolleyes:

[Bucwheat]

I was a Texas Ranger back in 1885

[mikeg826]

I was a Texas Ranger back in 1885

Well you can thank me now, cause if I didn't Save the Alamo , there would have been no Rangers in '85 :thumbs:

[lander]

I was a Texas Ranger back in 1885

Liar...the Texas Rangers weren't around until 1972.

:leaving:

[MrPeabody]

:lol: Yeah, it never ceases to amaze me how many people were allegedly in the "special forces" :rolleyes:

I especially like the Marine Special Forces veterans, since the Marines don't have special forces.

[Joecooool]

They can still be arrested for fraud if they benefit materially from lying about being in the service.

[Chris Fowler]

They can still be arrested for fraud if they benefit materially from lying about being in the service.
Yup.

As annoying as it is, I agree with the ruling.

Free speech is still free speech...

[VatorMan]

Well you can thank me now, cause if I didn't Save the Alamo , there would have been no Rangers in '85 :thumbs:

Well if I hadn't personally pulled George Washington out of the Potomac river, all you guys would be SOL.

[mikeg826]

Well if I hadn't personally pulled George Washington out of the Potomac river, all you guys would be SOL.

Damn, good old George never learned from that Christmas Day when I had to carry him to the shore after he stood up in the boat after I told him to sit down for christ sakes.

[Madmikeee]

I've met special forces, including seals. Trust me when I say that you CAN tell.

[MrPeabody]

I've met special forces, including seals. Trust me when I say that you CAN tell.

:iagree: Usually, the real ones aren't on the barstool next to you bragging about all th VC/Ragheads they killed.

[Madmikeee]

Yup.

As annoying as it is, I agree with the ruling.

Free speech is still free speech...

So If I claim to be a cop and have a badge , that's just free speech? Last I heard claiming to be a cop is a federal offense even with NO gains. I don't see how it is much different when these f-tards claim to be former military of any type brandishing medals.

[Madmikeee]

:iagree: Usually, the real ones aren't on the barstool next to you bragging about all th VC/Ragheads they killed.

exactly, typically quiet, will tell war stories to a point but usually will only say they served and not much more.

[MrPeabody]

So If I claim to be a cop and have a badge , that's just free speech? Last I heard claiming to be a cop is a federal offense even with NO gains. I don't see how it is much different when these f-tards claim to be former military of any type brandishing medals.

It is legal to claim to be a former cop.

[Madmikeee]

It is legal to claim to be a former cop.

hmm, good point.

I still disagree with it though but that is a moral thing so...

[Chris Fowler]

hmm, good point.

I still disagree with it though but that is a moral thing so...
Exactly.

I'm sick of people thinking the Constitution legislates morality. That comes from the people.

[Vette40th]

Well, I respect the 1st amendment, but there are people out there that dont know about this ruling. So, I am betting if someone is wearing a ribbon/pin or medal they dont deserve, i expect some to beat them down. I have seen it, and it may not be right, but maybe its enough of a deterrent for some to not deface their fellow citizens who truly deserve to wear certain military decorations and awards.

[Mr Hole]

Well if I hadn't personally pulled George Washington out of the Potomac river, all you guys would be SOL.

Damn, Tom, I knew you were old, but I didn't know that you're as old as SkiaTard. :needcoffee:

[VatorMan]

Damn, Tom, I knew you were old, but I didn't know that you're as old as SkiaTard. :needcoffee:

Weren't you there at the Big Bang ? :toetap:

[RedLS1GTO]

I especially like the Marine Special Forces veterans, since the Marines don't have special forces.

Force Recon = Marine Corps Special Forces.


I have had the honor of knowing and working with a number of Special Forces personnel in my career from SEALs to MC Force Recon to Green Berets. I have NEVER met a single one who bragged about it... and I don't expect that I ever will.

[MrPeabody]

Force Recon = Marine Corps Special Forces.


I have had the honor of knowing and working with a number of Special Forces personnel in my career from SEALs to MC Force Recon to Green Berets. I have NEVER met a single one who bragged about it... and I don't expect that I ever will.

Yeah, I know about Recon, but I was refering to the clowns who say they were in the Marines in "Special Forces".

[MrPeabody]

Weren't you there at the Big Bang ? :toetap:

I think he lit the fuse.

[DAB]

I think he lit the fuse.

:toetap:

no, you have to push the red button. :slap: it's pretty cool.

[OddBall]

I'm sure there is a long line of combat vets that are more than willing to kick his ass,
...and then lie about it.

[73sbVert]

I'm not a combat vet, but I will be happy to help prop him up to keep the azz beating going without our REAL combat vets having to stoop over and beat him!

:D

[Norm]

You mean now I can tell anybody I was in all the services in my signature? Man, I got some stories to tell. :D

[Aboatguy]

Force Recon = Marine Corps Special Forces.


I have had the honor of knowing and working with a number of Special Forces personnel in my career from SEALs to MC Force Recon to Green Berets. I have NEVER met a single one who bragged about it... and I don't expect that I ever will.

Never met a green beanie that answered to green beret. If you call an army guy wearing a green surrender monkey hat...Green Beret.... he'll inform you that green beret is the authorized headware for a SF operator.


I wish I had a dollar for every FAUX SEAL that I've punked..... It may be enough to pay for my first year of OBAMA Care

WOW seems like the Supreme court picked the anniversary the tragedy of OPERATION REDWINGS to release this rules...Lets not sully the memory of SEALS and NIGHTSTALKERS that gave their lives ensuring that Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night





Mike

[island14]

Not Military, but I heard a woman was on the moon long before Neil Armstrong..


Her name was Alice :D

[CP]

Liar...the Texas Rangers weren't around until 1972.

:leaving:

Liar...what about the Lone Ranger and his faithful Indian companion, Tonto??:leaving:

[8Up]

Force Recon = Marine Corps Special Forces.


I have had the honor of knowing and working with a number of Special Forces personnel in my career from SEALs to MC Force Recon to Green Berets. I have NEVER met a single one who bragged about it... and I don't expect that I ever will.

The guys I knew on active duty that were from Force Recon units were what I would call 'strong personalities'. Not assholes but straight shooters. teh few Army Special forces guys I have met have been very cool and calm and level headed, not bragers. I was a diesel mechanic in the Corps, and thats all I claim to have been. :seasix:

Semper Fi.

[RedLS1GTO]

The guys I knew on active duty that were from Force Recon units were what I would call 'strong personalities'.

Nicely put. :rofl:

[DJ_Critterus]

I've met special forces, including seals. Trust me when I say that you CAN tell.
I've found that group to be very quiet and only let you know when they want to.

[Vette40th]

SEAL not "seals" please. Out of respect for our special forces within the Navy. Other branches I am ignorant to. But please, all caps as it is an acronym.

[PortDawg]

I especially like the Marine Special Forces veterans, since the Marines don't have special forces.

RECONNNNNNNN!!!!!!

[NEVRL8T]

Force Recon = Marine Corps Special Forces.



:iagree:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/MARSOC_LOGO.JPG

[Jobaka]

Not Military, but I heard a woman was on the moon long before Neil Armstrong..


Her name was Alice :D



http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/LowFlyrVette/alice-1.jpg

[mrvette]

:iagree: Usually, the real ones aren't on the barstool next to you bragging about all th VC/Ragheads they killed.

Next door neighbor here, Chuck, easy going laid back guy, age 66, retired from base hospital, after his .mil career.....he admits to being a parachute rigger back when.....I smell BS, he ain't no shoot packer.....his build and voice, and demeanor sniffs like something SEALS.....he Navy all the way....

I don't think anyone knows about him...really, because in the 15 years I been on this street none of the guys has said a word about it, so it remains my surmise.....:seasix:

[lspencer534]

Next door neighbor here, Chuck, easy going laid back guy, age 66, retired from base hospital, after his .mil career.....he admits to being a parachute rigger back when.....I smell BS, he ain't no shoot packer.....his build and voice, and demeanor sniffs like something SEALS.....he Navy all the way....

I don't think anyone knows about him...really, because in the 15 years I been on this street none of the guys has said a word about it, so it remains my surmise.....:seasix:

Some (most?) are like that. I had the privilege of being the Executor of the Estate of a WWII veteran. He passed away last year at the VA Hospital at 94 years of age. He always wore a Navy Captain's cap, and everone at the VA called him "Captain". He would never admit it, he always changed the subject. After he died, I got his records. Captain, USN. He had his own plot at a cemetery in D.C.; I asked that they bury his cap with him.

[Mike Mercury]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/LowFlyrVette/alice-1.jpg

"that's not funny





:lol:

[Punk Boy]

So If I claim to be a cop and have a badge , that's just free speech? Last I heard claiming to be a cop is a federal offense even with NO gains. I don't see how it is much different when these f-tards claim to be former military of any type brandishing medals.

not aware of federal law but ky law you have to intent to induce them to submit to the implied athority....and i would imagine other states laws are worded similarly...

519.055 Impersonating a peace officer.
(1) A person is guilty of impersonating a peace officer if he pretends to be a peace officer, or to represent a law enforcement agency or act with the authority or approval of law enforcement agency, with intent to induce another to submit to the pretended official authority or otherwise to act in reliance upon the pretense to his prejudice.
(2) Impersonating a peace officer is a Class D felony.
(3) As used in this section, the phrase "peace officer" means a peace officer as defined in KRS 446.010.
Effective: July 15, 1998
History: Created 1998 Ky. Acts ch. 606, sec. 164, effective July 15, 1998.