Helmet Repeal-Michigan [Archive]

Norm

04-19-2012, 6:14pm

Torqaholic

04-19-2012, 6:26pm

Now we get to read in the news how someone wasn't wearing a helmet everytime they injure a toe but no mention of a helmet when a person who dies was wearing one. It has already started -

One dead in Gladwin County motorcycle accident
April 18, 2012

A 41-year-old Bay City man died after an off-road motorcycle accident Saturday in Gladwin County.

The Gladwin County Sheriff’s Office reports Craig Charles de Montigny was riding with friends at the Sterling Truck Trails when he lost control of the motorcycle he was driving and it struck a tree. Resuscitation attempts were made, but de Montigny was pronounced dead at the scene.

Deputies investigated the crash and determined the cause to be accidental. Alcohol and drugs were not factors.

Chris Fowler

04-19-2012, 6:28pm

I absolutely believe that you should have the right to ride without a helmet or drive without a seatbelt.

But I also believe that insurance companies should be able to charge you significantly more if you choose to do so.

mike100

04-19-2012, 6:29pm

I'm kind of torn on these issues. I'd like to be able to drive across a parking lot without buckling up or worry about getting a hefty fine just because a cop saw me going 7 mph not wearing one.

Either that or mask these types of violations to insurance companies. Basically technology has caught up enough to make it possible for your own car to dime you out on wireless if you do something bad- I feel there shouldn't be so many laws with robotic enforcement. I've heard it is bad in England regarding traffic technology.

pappytinker

04-19-2012, 6:48pm

I'm all for freedom of choice, but.............I believe safety trumps when it comes to helmet laws, JMO.

Look ma, no helmet! Michigan repeals helmet law for motorcyclists. - CSMonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2012/0413/Look-ma-no-helmet!-Michigan-repeals-helmet-law-for-motorcyclists)

I ass u me you ride?

At highway speeds the only difference between wearing a helmet and not wearing a helmet is open casket vs. closed casket.

Also, if you read the Mich law it states that the person who rides without a helmet must carry $20,000 extra insurance.

LilRedCorvette

04-19-2012, 6:56pm

A BIKER'S LIFE (ATGATT) - YouTube

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 7:05pm

I believe safety trumps when it comes to helmet laws, JMO.
I believe safety is my own business. Not the government, city, or states.

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 7:07pm

I believe safety is my own business. Not the government, city, or states.

As long as you and your insurance can pay for any injuries, I totally agree.

Norm

04-19-2012, 7:25pm

I ass u me you ride?

At highway speeds the only difference between wearing a helmet and not wearing a helmet is open casket vs. closed casket.

Also, if you read the Mich law it states that the person who rides without a helmet must carry $20,000 extra insurance.

Okayyyy, I did read it, it's just my opinion about safety, did I do or say something wrong here?

Riding since 15, now 65.

C5Nate

04-19-2012, 7:29pm

As long as you and your insurance can pay for any injuries, I totally agree.

HIS insurance may also be MY insurance and we all know who really pays the bills.

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 7:30pm

did I do or say something wrong here?

Yeah. This: I believe safety trumps when it comes to helmet laws.

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 7:34pm

HIS insurance may also be MY insurance and we all know who really pays the bills.

Well, if post #5 is true, people in Michigan not wearing a helmet will be paying more for extra insurance. I think this is fair.:seasix:

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 7:36pm

Well, if post #5 is true, people in Michigan not wearing a helmet will be paying more for extra insurance. I think this is fair.:seasix:

How do you propose they enforce this?

C5Nate

04-19-2012, 7:37pm

Well, if post #5 is true, people in Michigan not wearing a helmet will be paying more for extra insurance. I think this is fair.:seasix:

:iagree:

But until an accident happens, how will the insurance companys know?

IMHO, if they have an accident with no helmet and they claim they wear a helmet just to pay less, they should be dropped and no coverage on the accident.

......Crap.....then the taxpayers will foot the bill...:slap:

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 7:40pm

How do you propose they enforce this?

I don't know what they plan to do. I guess they could check your insurance card if you ever got pulled over, or perhaps a special license plate?

Norm

04-19-2012, 7:41pm

Yeah. This: I believe safety trumps when it comes to helmet laws.

Yeah, that's what I believe, so where did I go wrong here? I'm certainly not pushing my beliefs on anybody, I don't see where I'm going to change anybodies mind, just making a statement, that's all.

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 7:42pm

check your insurance card if you ever got pulled over
Wouldnt work.

special license plate
This either.

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 7:43pm

Another sidebar to this issue: Do you know what people in the medical profession call motorcycle riders with no helmet? Organ Donors. In a way, this can actually be a good thing.

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 7:46pm

Wouldnt work.

This either.

Why not? This is how they enforce having insurance at all for all drivers. Draconian penalties for not having it. Sure, nothing gets 100% compliance, but at least it keeps honest people honest. If the penalty for not having the extra insurance was that you get your bike impounded and say, lose you license for a year, would you get the extra insurance? I know some wouldn't, but some people always break some laws.

C5Nate

04-19-2012, 7:47pm

Yeah, that's what I believe, so where did I go wrong here? I'm certainly not pushing my beliefs on anybody, I don't see where I'm going to change anybodies mind, just making a statement, that's all.

And you are welcome to your opinions but be prepared for others to voice theirs and they may be just the opposite of yours.

Don’t take it personal, if you continue to hang around here you are going to have to grow some thicker skin.

Thomas is good people, you just may have pushed a button of his and he responded.

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 7:52pm

And you are welcome to your opinions but be prepared for others to voice theirs and they may be just the opposite of yours.

Don’t take it personal, if you continue to hang around here you are going to have to grow some thicker skin.

Thomas is good people, you just may have pushed a button of his and he responded.

Fortunately Thomas is one of the people here capable of having a civil discussion and is a pleasure to debate with.:seasix:

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 7:52pm

Why not? This is how they enforce having insurance at all for all drivers. Draconian penalties for not having it. Sure, nothing gets 100% compliance, but at least it keeps honest people honest.

How WILL it work? It's either mandatory or it isn't. Just like seat belts.

you just may have pushed a button of his and he responded.
Not truer word has been spoken. The mandatory helmet laws drive me nuts. It someone else, telling me what is for my own good.

Kerrmudgeon

04-19-2012, 7:53pm

Young healthy fresh organs.....PERFECT:thumbsup:

Obviously their brains don't function well, so it's not much of a loss.

Norm

04-19-2012, 7:53pm

And you are welcome to your opinions but be prepared for others to voice theirs and they may be just the opposite of yours.

Don’t take it personal, if you continue to hang around here you are going to have to grow some thicker skin.

Thomas is good people, you just may have pushed a button of his and he responded.

I hear you, thanks for the advice. Maybe I'll stay away from controversial subjects in the future, just don't feel like arguing, pussing out in my old age.

C5Nate

04-19-2012, 7:55pm

I hear you, thanks for the advice. Maybe I'll stay away from controversial subjects in the future, just don't feel like arguing, pussing out in my old age.

What would be the fun in that? :D

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 7:56pm

You don't think those of us who choose NOT to wear a helmet don't know the risks? TRUST me we do.

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 7:57pm

Young healthy fresh organs
I'm not so young anymore, and I did PLENTY of damage to them over the years. :D

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 7:58pm

How WILL it work? It's either mandatory or it isn't. Just like seat belts.

Not truer word has been spoken. The mandatory helmet laws drive me nuts. It someone else, telling me what is for my own good.

Okay, a cop pulls you over for some infraction, and asks for your proof of insurance. If you were not wearing a helmet, your insurance card better say you have paid for the extra 20K in medical insurance. If not, there is a penalty. Like I said, nothing will get 100% compliance. Speed limit signs and speeding fines don't get 100% compliance either.

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 7:59pm

I hear you, thanks for the advice. Maybe I'll stay away from controversial subjects in the future, just don't feel like arguing, pussing out in my old age.

Or wait until someone sends you an email on the subject, then just post that.:D

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 8:00pm

I'm not so young anymore, and I did PLENTY of damage to them over the years. :D

Your brain still seems to function, but they are not doing brain transplants yet.:seasix:

Mike Mercury

04-19-2012, 8:02pm

C5Nate

04-19-2012, 8:04pm

Young healthy fresh organs.....PERFECT

http://www.bikerhotline.com/newslett/2010/feb112010/assets/images/old-biker.jpg

Norm

04-19-2012, 8:04pm

What would be the fun in that? :D

Here's some of my fun, every Thursday at my place. Clay barring another Vette. I got to get the hell away from this computer. :D

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 8:05pm

Okay, a cop pulls you over for some infraction, and asks for your proof of insurance. If you were not wearing a helmet, your insurance card better say you have paid for the extra 20K in medical insurance
Might work.

My wife is in insurance. I just ran this by her, and she seems to think it a possibility. BUT: Who determines the limits? How is that number set?

nothing will get 100% compliance
Forget compliance. :D We agree thats NEVER gonna happen be it helmet laws, speeding or any other law.

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 8:06pm

But I also believe that insurance companies should be able to charge you significantly more if you choose to do so.
And if they do, I would more than likely pay it. I hate helmets THAT much.

Norm

04-19-2012, 8:07pm

Or wait until someone sends you an email on the subject, then just post that.:D

That's what I do, I'm not a smart guy, just copy, paste, & post. Don't have the capacity to debate. :D

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 8:07pm

Might work.

My wife is in insurance. I just ran this by her, and she seems to think it a possibility. BUT: Who determines the limits? How is that number set?

Forget compliance. :D We agree thats NEVER gonna happen be it helmet laws, speeding or any other law.

Those wonderful people we elect. I'm sure they will do whatever the insurance lobby tells them to do.:D

C5Nate

04-19-2012, 8:09pm

Here's some of my fun, every Thursday at my place. Clay barring another Vette. I got to get the hell away from this computer. :D

Nice garage, looks like good times with good friends :cheers:

Norm

04-19-2012, 8:11pm

Nice garage, looks like good times with good friends :cheers:

Thanks man, the way I'm going, I'll never find a friend here. :lol:

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 8:11pm

I'm sure they will do whatever the insurance lobby tells them to do
And that's a problem also. Like I stated earlier, it smells like too much .gov telling me whats good for me and what isn't.

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 8:12pm

And if they do, I would more than likely pay it. I hate helmets THAT much.

I don't ride, but so would I. I remember I once heard a Hell's Angel arguing that most bike accidents involve younger inexperienced riders. (Don't know if that's true, but sounds plausible.) He was proposing that an age limit of say, 25 or 30 or so many years of licensed experience be required for the priviledge of not wearing a helmet.

I think a guy like you is much less likely to crash than some 19 year old on a 1200cc rice rocket.

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 8:13pm

And that's a problem also. Like I stated earlier, it smells like too much .gov telling me whats good for me and what isn't.

In principle, I can't disagree with that.:seasix:

Chris Fowler

04-19-2012, 8:20pm

Might work.

My wife is in insurance. I just ran this by her, and she seems to think it a possibility. BUT: Who determines the limits? How is that number set?

The insurance company does. The government shouldn't have a damn thing to do with it.

The government shouldn't force insurance companies to cover riders who choose not to wear helmets.

And insurance companies should be free to charge what they believe is a necessary rate to cover riders who choose not to wear a helmet.

The fines/punishment should be huge for riders that ride without a helmet and without insurance covering that.

Same with seat belts.

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 8:21pm

most bike accidents involve younger inexperienced riders
And old guys who ride down to the saloon and knock back a six pack on a $25,000 Harley.

Numbers are still in favor of young guys on a 150HP sport bike, but the geezers on Harleys are becoming more and more a factor. The Boomers are all trying to capture their misspent youth. They have some disposable income and can afford the 25K Bagger. What they DON'T have is years riding.

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 8:23pm

The government shouldn't force insurance companies to cover riders who choose not to wear helmets.
The insurance companies lobby for laws to be passed. You can't have a law that's enforced by insurance companies. That's not what they are in business for.

C5Nate

04-19-2012, 8:25pm

I think a guy like you is much less likely to crash than some 19 year old on a 1200cc rice rocket.

80 year old granny dont care how old you are when she pulls out in front of you.

MrPeabody

04-19-2012, 8:26pm

80 year old granny dont care how old you are when she pulls out in front of you.

True, but the more experienced rider might be more alert and capable of avoiding her.

Chris Fowler

04-19-2012, 8:29pm

The insurance companies lobby for laws to be passed. You can't have a law that's enforced by insurance companies. That's not what they are in business for.
Were you agreeing with me? I said the government shouldn't do it...which means they should be out of the picture.

I believe the insurance company should be free to have a helmet requirement, if they choose.

But I believe they neither need to be forced to differentiate between helmeted and helmetless riders, nor should they be forced to offer insurance to helmetless riders.

The only place that I believe the government should be involved is requiring helmetless riders to have coverage that will cover injuries that are worse because they chose not to wear a helmet. If they have that, it's all good.

Now...if no insurance companies choose to offer insurance to riders who choose not to wear helmets, sucks to be the riders...

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 8:33pm

I believe the insurance company should be free to have a helmet requirement
Let me put it this way; Who enforces it? How? No helmet = No insurance? Again, Who enforces it? How?

69camfrk

04-19-2012, 8:34pm

I'm tired of living in a Nanny state. No helmet law is not on my hot priority list though. I do believe in freedom of choice. Everyone that I've ever known that got killed on a motorcycle was wearing a helmet. You can argue either way. It depends on the nature of the accident.

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 8:39pm

69camfrk

04-19-2012, 8:48pm

You have mandatory laws in your state? If not, do you wear one?

Mandatory in GA. I have ridden without in Florida and SC. I'm so used to wearing one, that I really don't give a shit either way anymore. Should be your own choice though.

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-19-2012, 8:53pm

I'm so used to wearing one
That's part of the problem with me. Never wore one, never had to. I have friends who visit and all say the same thing; "None of you fukers wear helmets. We rode all day and MAYBE half a dozen people had them on"

JRD77VET

04-19-2012, 9:00pm

How WILL it work? It's either mandatory or it isn't. Just like seat belts.

Not truer word has been spoken. The mandatory helmet laws drive me nuts. It someone else, telling me what is for my own good.

Let me make decisions myself that affect me.

You don't think those of us who choose NOT to wear a helmet don't know the risks? TRUST me we do.

PA lets you make your own choice. Personally, I always wear my helmet, leather jacket and boots whenever I ride.

Thomas chooses not to wear a lid. His life, his choice. :seasix:

Fastguy

04-19-2012, 9:28pm

You guys have no idea how powerful the insurance lobby is. They really DGAF if you crash and die, its the guy who crashes and lives 30 years hooked up to machines that concerns them. Ever notice that the biggest buildings in every city are owned by insurance companies?
It's an ugly situation. I wear I helmet because I want to, same with my seatbelt. I would love to see both laws abolished but the simple fact is that ins co's lose money on minor accidents. Instead of walking away and brushing it off, people have skin grafts, blasted teeth, all sorts of crap. In a high speed crash, all bets are off. When ins co's pay out for these people that don't wear seatbelts or helmets, everyone else pays.
It's a no-win situation.

Datawiz

04-19-2012, 11:22pm

That happened in Florida about 15 years ago. A woman who was a huge proponent for the law change ended up dying shortly after the law's repeal by hitting her head on a big concrete ball in front of a hotel downtown when she lost control of her bike.

Fastguy

04-19-2012, 11:28pm

Torqaholic

04-20-2012, 1:03am

Whose bank account is paying a couple extra cents a day for 20 grand worth of insurance going to break? Insurance is so inexpensive why not just get a million like I have with my truck? :rofl:

Why would strangers pay excess medical bills? Once an insurance policy taps out the company is done, it can't cost policy holders anything. Outstanding debts are passed on to family members.

If safety nazis really wanted to make the roads safer they'd lobby to ban insurance altogether. Nobody takes unreasonable chances when they're the ones who have to pay for a replacement. Safety? :rofl: They just want a lame excuse to control everybody, that's why they're called nazis.

pappytinker

04-20-2012, 5:36am

Okayyyy, I did read it, it's just my opinion about safety, did I do or say something wrong here?

Riding since 15, now 65.

Then you can CHOOSE to wear a helmet if you want, just as I do. Its the non-riders who impose their fallacy based conclusions on others that burns my butt.

VatorMan

04-20-2012, 5:52am

Here's how it works : I have optional insurance when I SCUBA dive (DAN)
I have optional insurance when I go to HPDE's (ontrackinsurance.com)

Same thing, if someone wants to ride without a helmet, they MUST buy optional insurance.

Kerrmudgeon

04-20-2012, 6:03am

Every state that has repealed helmet laws have seen a dramatic increase in head injury fatalities........:slap:

Head Injuries, Deaths Up After Helmet Law Repealed (http://ca.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0geu8SvQZFPdVAABRbrFAx.;_ylu=X3oDMTE1cnZkYnZwBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA01TWUNBMDJfNzY-/SIG=12v6eodbt/EXP=1334948399/**http%3a//www.webmd.com/news/20080612/head-injuries-up-after-helmet-law-repeal)

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-20-2012, 7:16am

Every state that has repealed helmet laws have seen a dramatic increase in head injury fatalities.......
Looking back in this thread, I cant find a single post where someone is arguing against helmets for safety reasons.

Bucwheat

04-20-2012, 7:57am

S.C. is considering repealing their helmet law

Giraffe (He/Him)

04-20-2012, 8:02am

S.C. is considering repealing their helmet law

Bravo.
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2n2kod51Q1qdrfl6o1_250.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2loubAtXY1r35d8ao1_500.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2lgbktHht1r70lijo1_500.gif