I Was Going to...

[Flatbush Harry]

...post this in P&RC but I went there and saw that nothing new had been posted after a bunch of kvetching about the John Boehner/Mark Kelly snit...which made me realize (again) how pointless the discussions in P&RC really are. As a result, you get my kvetch here.

The SuperCommittee, a bipartisan joke running since the debt ceiling fiasco has, predictably, failed. A more eloquent statement of a "failed state" has not been made. Those mutts have been negotiating for months about $120 Bn/year for ten years...a 1% of the Federal budget adjustment.

It is time to re-read the declaration of independence (note use of lower case...Jefferson wasn't really serious anyway...just ask his 108 slaves) and think in terms of a third party...neither of the other two give a shit about anything but their posture for re-election.

I am embarrassed to be an American...and I paid my feckin' dues so I get to say that.

Harry, dyspeptically

[jaxgator]

neither of the other two give a shit about anything but their posture for re-election.

This.

I am so sick of these career politicians. We need term limits.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

I am so sick of these career politicians. We need term limits
Bullshit. What, you cant just vote for someone else?

[Joecooool]

That asshole Grover Norquist has the GOP by their balls.

The pussies that signed the no tax increase pledge are afraid they will be voted out of office if they do what needs to be done.

Makes you wonder who they are loyal to, a lobbyist or this country.

You need tax increases and spending cuts. It really is just that simple.

[The_Dude]

Obama's fault.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Obama's fault.

Clearly. :D

[Flatbush Harry]

Obama's fault.

Him too, fo' schizzle. Vote all the humps out!

DH (Dypeptic Hyrar)

[Millenium Vette]

think in terms of a third party...neither of the other two give a shit about anything but their posture for re-election.

Which "third party" would you like to see, there are many out there...

My humble opinion is that we really don't have time to bring some third party to power. The country will have run out of time by then. Whether or not you like the "Tea Party" thing, and I've seen some very negative posts by Flatbush Harry on them, one priority they have that I agree with is fiscal responsibility in government. If we don't get our federal spending under control none of the other issues is going to matter much.

[Flatbush Harry]

Which "third party" would you like to see, there are many out there...

My humble opinion is that we really don't have time to bring some third party to power. The country will have run out of time by then. Whether or not you like the "Tea Party" thing, and I've seen some very negative posts by Flatbush Harry on them, one priority they have that I agree with is fiscal responsibility in government. If we don't get our federal spending under control none of the other issues is going to matter much.

The Tea Party, like much of the conservative right wing of the republican party, is comprised of a bunch of obstructive nihilists who mistake "fiscal responsibility" for the actual achievement of deficit reduction.

The issue begins with getting to an appropriate definition of the role, size and charter of government...and the majority of the hoi polloi feel an entitlement to the assets and income of others and see the government as there to do that. Each party panders to its core resulting in that which we are experiencing. Sayofeckin'ara, YouEssofMeh.

:rofl:

DH

[VatorMan]

Him too, fo' schizzle. Vote all the humps out!

DH (Dypeptic Hyrar)

1000000% :iagree::iagree::iagree:

[The_Dude]

We need Jesse Ventura.

[Millenium Vette]

The Tea Party, like much of the conservative right wing of the republican party, is comprised of a bunch of obstructive nihilists who mistake "fiscal responsibility" for the actual achievement of deficit reduction.

The issue begins with getting to an appropriate definition of the role, size and charter of government...and the majority of the hoi polloi feel an entitlement to the assets and income of others and see the government as there to do that. Each party panders to its core resulting in that which we are experiencing. Sayofeckin'ara, YouEssofMeh.

:rofl:

DH

And what exactly are they trying to obstruct? And what specifically would be the reasoning for their wanting to obstruct?

P.S. These are questions that are asked sincerely to get a better perspective on what you are saying and your reasoning behind it. They are not meant to discount the point you are trying to make.

:cert:

[Millenium Vette]

You need tax increases and spending cuts. It really is just that simple.

I agree with needing spending cuts, but a tax increase does not mean the government will take in greater revenue.

[mrvette]

MEANwhile this old DC hand, an observer for some decades, and privy to some inside shit from time to time,.....could go in there and FORCE the shituation upon ALL parties, name names, take notes, and Kick ASS.....

but no, that kind of plain talk will be Alenski'd all to hell, and enough of the population will believe it, making it impossible to do anything....

MY only comment is F EM glad I age 67 and will not live to see the end, ....

sorry for my kids though....they are progressives, and now paying the price for such mal-education from their mother....

But you see, I know enough of how to gather information to Alinski all the Progressives, before they open their mouths, they are exposed and defrocked, end of game....but I would not intend on playing 'fair' I plan to WIN.....like I say Eff em forever.....

Dodd, Frank, Pelosi, Boxer, Finestine, Kerry, et al would NEVER stand a chance to re election if I was in any power to blow the whistle....

the R party is FAR to much 'gentlemanly' about this shit, but they are just playing that role, being the PROGRESSIVES are in charge.....

Give ME a team like Beck had, and you watch what happens....

Beck pulled too many punches....


I want PROGRESSIVE/commie/nazi/socialist blood on the roads, until the gutters run red enough to stain the rivers.....and make NO bones about it...

why? retribution for all the millions they killed in the last ~150 years....

:seasix::seasix::hurray:

[ZipZap]

HECK NO! :ack:

Any moron who gives the 9/11 truthers an ounce of credence needs to stay the heck out of the game. :yesnod:

You know they found traces of thermite, right?:rolleyes::D:leaving:

Revenue increases and spending decreases are needed. Now. As long as being in office presents a really good way to stay rich, the objective will be to stay in office, not solve hard problems that will inevitably alienate some group of voters.

Term limits and publicly funded elections would be a good start. Follow that with a reasonable pension and get back to a situation where public service is just that.

Corporations will not stop influencing on their own. That's akin to asking them to stop trying to make money. This needs to be addressed from the politician's side.

One of the more disparaging things I've heard lately was from Rick Santorum, who said that electing a lifelong politician was important, as this was politics.:slap:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

I am embarrassed to be an American
Michelle Obama is getting slayed for saying that right here on this forum.

[boracayjohnny]

Our elected officials are re-enacting the elementary school playground each day. It's sad to see a great country spiraling into a black hole of implosion. What needs to be done will not be done until it's too late. Until better days, prepare thy anus.

[NEED-A-VETTE]

Tax increases? WTF do I want to hand more of my money over to a .gov that can't responsibly spend what I'm giving them already? It's ridiculous.

[Will]

You need tax increases and spending cuts. It really is just that simple.

LIE.


The deficit is a result SOLELY of spending, and it is the OTHER side screwing America and asking for something that IS NOT NEEDED and WILL HURT THE ECONOMY for the sake of their politics.

FACT - With Bush tax cuts and TWO bookend recessions hammering the economy and thus revenue over the past decade, we STILL collected enough revenue to not only fund FY 2000 levels of spending, but do so with a net SURPLUS of over 2 trillion for the decade.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u138/willbridges1982/2000InflationAdjustedSpendingDeficitvsActual.png

Any politician who does the phoney baloney song and dance about being "reasonable" and "meeting in the middle" and demands tax increases is either a complete and utter moron incapable of intelligent thought, or a lying socialist scum-bag who does understand the above and is simply willing to be dishonest in order to stick it to their favorite scapegoat and satisfy the bloodlust of their jealous vapid voter base.

WE.

HAVE.

NO.

REVENUE.

PROBLEM.

It's SPENDING. ALL S-P-E-N-D-I-N-G.

You're entitled to your own opinion, NOT your own facts.

[snide]

That asshole Grover Norquist has the GOP by their balls.

The pussies that signed the no tax increase pledge are afraid they will be voted out of office if they do what needs to be done.

Makes you wonder who they are loyal to, a lobbyist or this country.

You need tax increases and spending cuts. It really is just that simple.

They are loyal to their fat paychecks and perks. This country needs severe spending cuts, not tax increases.

[Omega Man]

Roll the .gov back to the 1950's level or manning.

Cut out most of the welfare / social programs.

Stop trying to raise the taxes on the people who are paying the most.

I fuking pay enough and I don't want to pay more so some Julio / Crack head can get a free phone and internet access. I am tired of people fuking like rats so they can get a bigger check.

I am for .gov funded sterilization to put an end to the cycle.

30% is MORE THAN FAIR!!!

Everyone of the super committee should have to spend 30 minutes with me in a closed room and a cricket bat.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g5XHV0sXk-4/TVgHRa7dB-I/AAAAAAAAACo/3RndXXsZqTQ/s1600/CRICKET+BAT+(4).jpg

[Bill]

Michelle Obama is getting slayed for saying that right here on this forum.

Michelle Obama is a VB forum member? Who knew?


I'm still betting on RIM turning out to be Joe Biden. Joe actually does own a Corvette.

[NB2K]

How does the post office deliver less mail with more people?

[G8rDMD]

What we need is the Governator to become the Presinator. :leaving:

Or Zombie Reagan :yesnod:

[neece]

Look up in the D.C. sky.....it's a turd, it's a pain, it's the Supercommittee!:hurray:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

This is the biggest collection of douchebag politicians in the history of politicians AND douchbags.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

MEANwhile this old DC hand, an observer for some decades, and privy to some inside shit from time to time,
Yeah right. Who's gonna tell your sorry azz anything but where your fukin' teeth are?

[Scissors]

That asshole Grover Norquist has the GOP by their balls.

The pussies that signed the no tax increase pledge are afraid they will be voted out of office if they do what needs to be done.

Makes you wonder who they are loyal to, a lobbyist or this country.

You need tax increases and spending cuts. It really is just that simple.

Nope, just spending cuts. Eliminate SS/MC and cut the military budget in half and we'll be solid. Oh yeah, and stop handing money to other countries and operating as a police force for other nations. Let them foot their military bills.

Neither party is willing to do that because, at their heart, both parties have socialism/big government lovers as their base. The only difference is that one party pretends this is okay, and the other pretends it isn't true.

[VatorMan]

Nope, just spending cuts. Eliminate SS/MC and cut the military budget in half and we'll be solid. Oh yeah, and stop handing money to other countries and operating as a police force for other nations. Let them foot their military bills.

Neither party is willing to do that because, at their heart, both parties have socialism/big government lovers as their base. The only difference is that one party pretends this is okay, and the other pretends it isn't true.

:iagree:

[Rotorhead]

Michelle Obama is getting slayed for saying that right here on this forum.

I would tell you my opinion of your post, but you might run off like a little bitch.

So are you going to address your original post, or are you going to dance from thread to thread whining without replying to me. You came at me talking your shit (which was probably in a haze of booze). Stop the dancing lil man and fecking answer me!

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Stop the dancing lil man and fecking answer me
There is effort, then there is wasted effort. You are wasted effort. Besides, whether it was me or someone else, you still ran off like a little boy. Your credibility is exactly zero.

Have your fun. You'll eventually melt down again, grab your purse and leave.

[Rotorhead]

There is effort, then there is wasted effort. You are wasted effort. Besides, whether it was me or someone else, you still ran off like a little boy. Your credibility is exactly zero.

Have your fun. You'll eventually melt down again, grab your purse and leave.

You wanna talk smack and then back down when confronted. What a huge fecking puzzy and a disappointment. We all thought you had something enlightening to share with us. If I own a purse, your sack is in it BEYOTCH.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Burro (He/Haw)]

If I own a purse, your sack is in it BITCH
:rofl: No matter what side of the argument you land on, that's fukin funny. :rofl::cert:

[Joecooool]

LIE.


The deficit is a result SOLELY of spending, and it is the OTHER side screwing America and asking for something that IS NOT NEEDED and WILL HURT THE ECONOMY for the sake of their politics.

FACT - With Bush tax cuts and TWO bookend recessions hammering the economy and thus revenue over the past decade, we STILL collected enough revenue to not only fund FY 2000 levels of spending, but do so with a net SURPLUS of over 2 trillion for the decade.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u138/willbridges1982/2000InflationAdjustedSpendingDeficitvsActual.png

Any politician who does the phoney baloney song and dance about being "reasonable" and "meeting in the middle" and demands tax increases is either a complete and utter moron incapable of intelligent thought, or a lying socialist scum-bag who does understand the above and is simply willing to be dishonest in order to stick it to their favorite scapegoat and satisfy the bloodlust of their jealous vapid voter base.

WE.

HAVE.

NO.

REVENUE.

PROBLEM.

It's SPENDING. ALL S-P-E-N-D-I-N-G.

You're entitled to your own opinion, NOT your own facts.And yet here you go picking and chosing which "facts" you want to support while ignoring the otyher "facts" that shoot down your position.

Are you actually suggesting on a public forum that if the Bush tax cuts had not gone into effect that we would be in the hole we are in?

Alright chart boy, choke on these.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/Impact_of_Bush_Tax_Cut_Extension.png/800px-Impact_of_Bush_Tax_Cut_Extension.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Federal_individual_income_tax_receipts_2000-2009.png/800px-Federal_individual_income_tax_receipts_2000-2009.png

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4815693749_7c8ff79936.jpg

[Burro (He/Haw)]

"Chart Boy" :D

[bearstrail]

Alright chart boy, choke on these.
http://troll.me/images/cowboy-dos-equis/its-on-bitch.jpg

[kylebuck]

the whole lot of them are crooked bastards and should be skull dragged out of washington.

[Joecooool]

sorry for my kids though....they are progressives, and now paying the price for such mal-education from their mother....

But you see, I know enough of how to gather information to Alinski all the Progressives, before they open their mouths, they are exposed and defrocked, end of game....but I would not intend on playing 'fair' I plan to WIN.....like I say Eff em forever.....

I want PROGRESSIVE/commie/nazi/socialist blood on the roads, until the gutters run red enough to stain the rivers.....and make NO bones about it...

why? retribution for all the millions they killed in the last ~150 years....

:seasix::seasix::hurray:You want to kill your kids over their political views?

[Burro (He/Haw)]

You want to kill your kids over their political views?

Kinda looks that way doesn't it? He's just pissed because his hip is acting up from the fall.

[Cybercowboy]

The Supercommittee did exactly what Obama wanted it to do - nothing. This way he can raise the debt ceiling from now until election day, unhindered. Duh.

[erickpl]

We were taught at a young age to not spend if you don't have the cash. Spend less than you make and save it. Simple idea until you are the .gov.

As my dad would say, "If I were czar":

term limits for all House and Senate members. You need time to learn the system, so I would say no more than 15 years total to serve. This way, they can be effective and not always be behind the learning curve, but not be there for life (think Kennedy, Simon, Dodd, etc).
Restructure Welfare to be X number of years. During that time, you can get job training or get a degree. Drop out, funding goes away. Once you get trained, you have X time to get a job and funding goes away. No extra $$ for more than 2 kids. Pop out all you want, but the money won't increase. Your choice. We won't pay for more kids, but we won't penalize you for it other than making what you get cover them all.
Dump Soc Sec and mandate employers to manage retirement programs for employees similar to what they do now. That money pool could no longer be dipped in to and monies are being taken out of paychecks pretax, putting more $$ into the economy and not letting the .gov play with our retirements.
Companies publicly state who they give donations to, when given, and how much. Cap of $5,000 TOTAL.
Get rid of electoral college. In this day of technology, counting every vote is easier than ever.
No lifetime health benefits and retirement packages. You're just an ordinary citizen like us. We leave a job, those benefits go away and our employer no longer contributes to our retirement.
Raises coincide with cost of living adjustments. Constituents vote for pay raises. We go through employee reviews, so should they. And WE are their employers.


I know this is all overly simplified, but the idea still has merit. Not that it would be easy or EVER passed, but a new way of thinking by the citizens is where the changes have to occur. Until WE realize we have the power to vote these yahoos in our out and actually do something about it, we're gonna get the same crap served to us because we keep putting the same chefs in the kitchen and same waitstaff serving it to us.

I am not for raising taxes until the .gov has done EVERYTHING possible to run as lean and efficient as possible. Cut out all the extra crap, streamline processes that promote fraud, abuse, and waste (money and time), and THEN see where you sit. That means clean things up before ASKING more from us.

If you do all that, ask us if we want XX program and what it will cost us in taxes to fund it. It costs this much and here's the benefit you can expect.

I don't give a rat's butt whether it is a D or an R after your name - I want you to represent those that elected you and do what they're wanting you to do. We are your employer. We are not your bitch. You report to us and answer to us. We don't want you around, we fire you and hire somebody else.

[CP]

We need Jesse Ventura.

He went back to Messico.

[The_Dude]

He went back to Messico.

How about Bobby "The Brain"? He'd wipe the floor with any of these guys in a debate.
http://accel11.mettre-put-idata.over-blog.com/0/08/06/68/bobby-the-brain-heenan.jpg

[vetteman9368]

That asshole Grover Norquist has the GOP by their balls.

The pussies that signed the no tax increase pledge are afraid they will be voted out of office if they do what needs to be done.

Makes you wonder who they are loyal to, a lobbyist or this country.

You need tax increases and spending cuts. It really is just that simple.

we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. PERIOD.

[Bucwheat]

We are doomed:leaving:

[RedLS1GTO]

And yet here you go picking and chosing which "facts" you want to support while ignoring the otyher "facts" that shoot down your position.

Funny... it seems like you just did the same thing. :rolleyes:


The best part about your "facts" is that 2 of the 3 are nothing more than someones speculation (otherwise known as a guess) with no source given. :rofl: Which libtard blog did you pull those from?

There is a reason that most scientists, engineers, etc are fiscally conservative while artists, actors, etc are fiscally liberal. You mofos suck at math.

[Scissors]

Get rid of the electoral college. In this day of technology, counting every vote is easier than ever.

The problem with this one is that it is unconstitutional and defeats the purpose. The three branches' leaders are selected in different ways to keep any one group fro

[Scissors]

(Continued because the previous post throws a "500 error" when I give it more than 285 characters.)

m having too much power.

Legislative branch is elected by The People and The States
Executive branch is elected by The States
Judicial branch is selected by The President

If the founders wanted mob rule, they'd have simply had all three branches elected by the people. Elections of senators and representatives was no harder back then than a popular election of the president would have been. It has nothing to do with technology.

[Cybercowboy]

(Continued because the previous post throws a "500 error" when I give it more than 285 characters.)

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[Will]

And yet here you go picking and chosing which "facts" you want to support while ignoring the otyher "facts" that shoot down your position.

Wrong. REALITY is that if we had kept spending to FY 2000 levels, adjusted for inflation, we would have enjoyed a net surplus over the past decade WITH the Bush tax ciuts.


Are you actually suggesting on a public forum that if the Bush tax cuts had not gone into effect that we would be in the hole we are in?


Yes.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/Impact_of_Bush_Tax_Cut_Extension.png/800px-Impact_of_Bush_Tax_Cut_Extension.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Federal_individual_income_tax_receipts_2000-2009.png/800px-Federal_individual_income_tax_receipts_2000-2009.png

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4815693749_7c8ff79936.jpg

Oh look, I have to repeat myself AGAIN because someone is too hard headed or willfully ignorant to get it:

http://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/politics-religion-controversy/16964-visual-statistical-proof-spending-problem-not-tax-revenue.html

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4c28e8027f8b9ad402570000/chart-of-the-day-bush-policies-deficits-june-2010.gif

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/280288/TAX-CUTS-DEBT.jpg

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010-11-16bud-f1.jpg

Thanks for useless charts that actually try to claim (1) the Bush cuts COST money, and (2) you could actually quantify how much we gained or lost as a result. :rofl:


The assumption that economic output and GDP are static regardless of levels of taxation is ABSURD.


The folks at CPBB either aren't too bright or are purposefully LYING

Or you just don't like the data.

The 2003 Changes spurred record rates of GROWTH in tax revenue in ACTUALITY during the 4 year 2004-2007 expansion:


http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u138/willbridges1982/Taxes/corporatetaxrevenue.jpg



http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u138/willbridges1982/Taxes/taxrev.jpg


http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u138/willbridges1982/Taxes/BushTaxCuts2003.jpg


The reason? GDP drives revenue.


http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u138/willbridges1982/USA%20Inc%20Charts/GDPGrowthDrivesRevenue.png


NOT tax levels:


http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u138/willbridges1982/Taxes/TopTaxRatevRevenueGDP67-09.png



Or you just don't like that data

THERE IS NO "DATA" concerning the subject. NO ONE knows what the true effect on GDP of the tax changes was compared to what would have happened otherwise.


Unless of course you're aware of an alternate universe to ours where everything is exactly the same except the Bush tax cuts never happened, and someone from it is somehow communicating with you and telling you the differences in federal revenue. :rofl:

[VITE1]

That asshole Grover Norquist has the GOP by their balls.

The pussies that signed the no tax increase pledge are afraid they will be voted out of office if they do what needs to be done.

Makes you wonder who they are loyal to, a lobbyist or this country.

You need tax increases and spending cuts. It really is just that simple.

Look how well they kept to that promise the last two times, Each time Spending was to be cut when taxes went up. All that happened is the slowed spending growth for a little while that F**ked us.

Revenue , as a percentage of GP has been fairly stable since Kennedy cut the tax rates. Spending as a % of GDP has gotten out of hand.

Stop spending.

[Scissors]

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:lol: