View Full Version : New M5
Found this on another forum. Nice comparison between the V and M5.
http://rawautos.com/2011/06/photo-spec-comparison-2011-cadillac-cts-v-vs-2012-bmw-m5/
theanswriz42
07-22-2011, 8:26pm
Do want!
...Whitepower...
07-22-2011, 8:28pm
$40k price difference..:slap:
anyone who spends 100 thousand dollars for that bmw needs to have their head examined
xXBUDXx
07-22-2011, 8:37pm
Until I drive both, I can't say for sure, but this guy seems to feel pretty strongly about it:
Why pay 40k more for the bmw?
It's got the same performance numbers in acceleration and top speed.
It handles about the same as the Cadi.(Cadi invented the proprietary magnaride that ferrari and porsche recently adopted)
The interior looks more plain and generic.
The cost of ownership is twice as much.
Dont believe me? Google "bmw sucks" just to see how many websites and forums are from the millions of owners that feel cheated by this overrated, overpriced, and unreliable company. Trust me i WAS one of them.
A non-proven first time turbocharger that will give owners headaches until the kinks are worked out.
And to top it off, u will look like every other douche on the road who drives the same old kidney grill krautmobile.
Except this one looks like a large mouth bass with the huge rounded fishlipped air sucker up front. Wow that front end is hideous looking!!
The only good thing about the bmw is the large trunk that owners will have to live in after spending all their money on the car and subsequent repairs.
Oh, and if you like to mod, forget about it with the m5 unless you got another 100k to drop.
Smart enthusiasts will buy the cadi for 60k put 30k into it and have a 1000hp beast that will walk all over this pretender that bmw rushed out to try compete with the CTS-V. CTS-V's have tons of room for tuning with lots of capable companies doing it at reasonable prices.You can either be smart or be a douche. Take your pick.
Uncle Pervey
07-22-2011, 8:42pm
Found this on another forum. Nice comparison between the V and M5.
http://rawautos.com/2011/06/photo-spec-comparison-2011-cadillac-cts-v-vs-2012-bmw-m5/
I thought you sold the V??? :confused5:
Omega Man
07-22-2011, 8:55pm
anyone who spends 100 thousand dollars for that bmw needs to have their head examined
It is all relative. If you got the money (meaning, you investments are taken care of, paid off everything, etc) why not.
I used to think the same thing, but now it is not about being able to afford it, it is being willing to spend that amount.
I can't see it.
I've driven the piss out of a V and it seemed bulletproof.
The long, long lines at the BMW service department is why I bought the XF for the wife.
Great car, I'm sure, but their quality seems to be in the crapper lately.
Looks like they borrowed some stying cues from the V as well...
It is all relative. If you got the money (meaning, you investments are taken care of, paid off everything, etc) why not.
I used to think the same thing, but now it is not about being able to afford it, it is being willing to spend that amount.
for me...it's very relative :yesnod:
I spent 60+K on a C6 vert...
and would never do it again. and it's not always about affordability...I get older, I get wiser. :cheers:
themonk
07-22-2011, 9:42pm
Until I drive both, I can't say for sure, but this guy seems to feel pretty strongly about it:
Why pay 40k more for the bmw?
It's got the same performance numbers in acceleration and top speed.
It handles about the same as the Cadi.(Cadi invented the proprietary magnaride that ferrari and porsche recently adopted)
The interior looks more plain and generic.
:skep: Didn't that first appear on the '03 Vette, which by the way is a 1000 lbs less than the Caddy. :willy:
Datawiz
07-22-2011, 9:43pm
I don't like the current profile of European cars implementing the pedestrian crash standards. The noses are too upright and the hoods too tall. :(
xXBUDXx
07-22-2011, 9:49pm
Why pay 40k more for the bmw?
It's got the same performance numbers in acceleration and top speed.
It handles about the same as the Cadi.(Cadi invented the proprietary magnaride that ferrari and porsche recently adopted)
The interior looks more plain and generic.
:skep: Didn't that first appear on the '03 Vette, which by the way is a 1000 lbs less than the Caddy. :willy:
Caddy had been working with it for a while around the same time. I'm not sure which one offered it first. I'm pretty sure they both launched it pretty close to the same time, but I can't remember. :cheers:
Holy crap. I have aligned forces with Monk. :hi:
themonk
07-22-2011, 9:53pm
Caddy had been working with it for a while around the same time. I'm not sure which one offered it first. I'm pretty sure they both launched it pretty close to the same time, but I can't remember. :cheers:
Holy crap. I have aligned forces with Monk. :hi:
They were introduced in January 2002 on the STS so I guess Caddy was the first. :blush:
boracayjohnny
07-22-2011, 9:55pm
Until I drive both, I can't say for sure, but this guy seems to feel pretty strongly about it:
That quote = Dizzam! If more think like that then it'll sure make the BMW P-R folks earn their money.
One car I've always liked is the M3. I've never liked the prices. Maybe I should end up like Repo and getting a good used BMW with a maintenance contract.
GRN ENVY
07-23-2011, 7:33am
anyone who spends 100 thousand dollars for that bmw needs to have their head examined
Better start examining my head then, cause I want one of those M5's
jaxgator
07-23-2011, 9:09am
It is all relative. If you got the money (meaning, you investments are taken care of, paid off everything, etc) why not.
I used to think the same thing, but now it is not about being able to afford it, it is being willing to spend that amount.
Better start examining my head then, cause I want one of those M5's
But why, when you see comments like this?
Why pay 40k more for the bmw?
It's got the same performance numbers in acceleration and top speed.
It handles about the same as the Cadi.(Cadi invented the proprietary magnaride that ferrari and porsche recently adopted)
The interior looks more plain and generic.
The cost of ownership is twice as much.
Dont believe me? Google "bmw sucks" just to see how many websites and forums are from the millions of owners that feel cheated by this overrated, overpriced, and unreliable company. Trust me i WAS one of them.
A non-proven first time turbocharger that will give owners headaches until the kinks are worked out.
And to top it off, u will look like every other douche on the road who drives the same old kidney grill krautmobile.
Except this one looks like a large mouth bass with the huge rounded fishlipped air sucker up front. Wow that front end is hideous looking!!
The only good thing about the bmw is the large trunk that owners will have to live in after spending all their money on the car and subsequent repairs.
Oh, and if you like to mod, forget about it with the m5 unless you got another 100k to drop.
Smart enthusiasts will buy the cadi for 60k put 30k into it and have a 1000hp beast that will walk all over this pretender that bmw rushed out to try compete with the CTS-V. CTS-V's have tons of room for tuning with lots of capable companies doing it at reasonable prices.You can either be smart or be a douche. Take your pick.
If I were considering the two cars, there's no doubt I would buy the V over the M5.
GRN ENVY
07-23-2011, 9:22am
But why, when you see comments like this?
Over the past few years of detailing thousands of cars, I have become dissappointed with GM, they are just blah, the only GM I will ever own will be corvette's. My Clientele has started over the past few years to become high end vehicles. The quality and drivability is just that much better. Don't get me wrong the CTS-V is an incredible car, but there is somthing about it that is just too much. As alot of my clients start to get Lexus, BMW, and benz's I appreciate the higher end materials used. Call me crazy but the paint on a BMW is alot easier to correct then say GM's paint. Maybe its the finesse of the cars, but I just like them better.
jaxgator
07-23-2011, 9:34am
Over the past few years of detailing thousands of cars, I have become dissappointed with GM, they are just blah, the only GM I will ever own will be corvette's. My Clientele has started over the past few years to become high end vehicles. The quality and drivability is just that much better. Don't get me wrong the CTS-V is an incredible car, but there is somthing about it that is just too much. As alot of my clients start to get Lexus, BMW, and benz's I appreciate the higher end materials used. Call me crazy but the paint on a BMW is alot easier to correct then say GM's paint. Maybe its the finesse of the cars, but I just like them better.
40K better? For damn near identical performance? And then you can dump 20-30k in the V and blow away the M5? I just don't get it. You also get better reliability with the V. IMO, the majority of BMW owners buy them as a status symbol.
To each his own I guess. :cheers:
GRN ENVY
07-23-2011, 9:46am
40K better? For damn near identical performance? And then you can dump 20-30k in the V and blow away the M5? I just don't get it. You also get better reliability with the V. IMO, the majority of BMW owners buy them as a status symbol.
To each his own I guess. :cheers:
What you say is absoulutly 100% true, but the BMW is a better car to me, workmanship wise. I don't know what it is but the V just turns me off. Myabe I am turning into one of those BMW tool bags :willy:
jaxgator
07-23-2011, 10:40am
What you say is absoulutly 100% true, but the BMW is a better car to me, workmanship wise. I don't know what it is but the V just turns me off. Myabe I am turning into one of those BMW douche bags :willy:
fixt. j/k :D
If it was the better car workmanship-wise, why is it in the shop more than the V? I guess you are talking more along the lines of quality of materials. I would much prefer my car in my hands than the dealership service bay, regardless of the type of leather used on the seats.
GRN ENVY
07-23-2011, 10:44am
fixt. j/k :D
If it was the better car workmanship-wise, why is it in the shop more than the V? I guess you are talking more along the lines of quality of materials. I would much prefer my car in my hands than the dealership service bay, regardless of the type of leather used on the seats.
:yesnod:
I would rather work on my own cars then a stealership, regardless of the brand.
Nemesis
07-23-2011, 10:48am
But why, when you see comments like this?
One asshole's opinion doesn't represent an entire car company.
73sbVert
07-23-2011, 11:07am
Well, since the V at least has an option for a 'vert and a coupe, that automatically makes it more desirable for me.
Since the M5 ONLY comes as a sedan, total turn off. I absolutely detest 4-door cars.
Entropy
07-23-2011, 11:10am
I can't see it.
I've driven the piss out of a V and it seemed bulletproof.
The long, long lines at the BMW service department is why I bought the XF for the wife.
Great car, I'm sure, but their quality seems to be in the crapper lately.
Looks like they borrowed some stying cues from the V as well...
Sure is a bizarro world when one passes up the germans to go to the english for a reliable car. Lucas is spinning in his grave.
Sure is a bizarro world when one passes up the germans to go to the english for a reliable car. Lucas is spinning in his grave.
:iagree::lol:
One of the first days she used it after I had given to her, it threw a code when she backed it out of the garage.
Tech said it was probably due to going from a cool (76) garage to super hot outside (96).
It hasn't done it since ( almost 2 years), but it still had to show me, "I'm a Jag, beotch!":D
Nemesis
07-23-2011, 11:23am
Well, since the V at least has an option for a 'vert and a coupe, that automatically makes it more desirable for me.
Since the M5 ONLY comes as a sedan, total turn off. I absolutely detest 4-door cars.
So buy an M3.
What you say is absoulutly 100% true, but the BMW is a better car to me, workmanship wise. I don't know what it is but the V just turns me off. Myabe I am turning into one of those BMW tool bags :willy:
:slap: BigMoneyWasted.
themonk
07-23-2011, 11:27am
People always think short term, go to your BMW dealership and get it repaired when you're out of warranty, I dare ya. You realize BMW programs certain parts for your car only, meaning you can't use parts from another car (same model) on your car, it's brand new BMW parts or nothing.
Nemesis
07-23-2011, 2:09pm
People always think short term, go to your BMW dealership and get it repaired when you're out of warranty, I dare ya. You realize BMW programs certain parts for your car only, meaning you can't use parts from another car (same model) on your car, it's brand new BMW parts or nothing.
The dealership isn't the only place that can service a car.
The dealership isn't the only place that can service a car.
what fool who parts with his 100K for a car is gonna take it to Moe's Garage?
Omega Man
07-23-2011, 2:40pm
Well, since the V at least has an option for a 'vert and a coupe, that automatically makes it more desirable for me.
Since the M5 ONLY comes as a sedan, total turn off. I absolutely detest 4-door cars.
Link?
:waiting:
what fool who parts with his 100K for a car is gonna take it to Moe's Garage?
If Moe's Garage is a private BMW specialist, it more than likely has better mechanics than most BMW stealerships, and they are less expensive.
So the fool is the rich guy who doesn't know any better.
If Moe's Garage is a private BMW specialist, it more than likely has better mechanics than most BMW stealerships, and they are less expensive.
I'd bet there are very few new BMW owners who would take their car to an indy shop.
So the fool is the rich guy who doesn't know any better.
Are you describing most BMW owners? :lol:
I thought you sold the V??? :confused5:
It's gone and an M3 is in it's place.
fixt. j/k :D
If it was the better car workmanship-wise, why is it in the shop more than the V? I guess you are talking more along the lines of quality of materials. I would much prefer my car in my hands than the dealership service bay, regardless of the type of leather used on the seats.
Try topping 13+ weeks and a Douche of a corporation for the V. Let's see, an 07 Z dealer butchered NON SUPPORT GM, 08 Z Lemon Lawed, 09 V major POS which GM was taken to litigation over.
Sure sign me up for some more GM Kool Aid, I'll take a V with sunroof rattles, isolator noises, oil leak on the engine, broken welds in the roof, and using 2 quarts of oil in 4K miles. PLEASE LET ME GET ONE OF THOSE GREAT CARS.
All most people read are what their hearts tell them to read. Maybe I'll have problems with the M3 but so far it has gone longer than any of the GM vehicles without a trip to the dealer for repairs. Oh it did go and get the rear end fluid changed, oil changed and a once over under the maintenance plan today.
Maybe GM will pull their heads out of the sand and build a great C7, time will tell. Until then I'll take the chance with the M3.
Link?
:waiting:
you could buy an XLR-V until 09, but not now. It used the Northstar V8.
carlton_fritz
07-23-2011, 4:21pm
fixt. j/k :D
If it was the better car workmanship-wise, why is it in the shop more than the V? I guess you are talking more along the lines of quality of materials. I would much prefer my car in my hands than the dealership service bay, regardless of the type of leather used on the seats.
:iagree:
NEVRL8T
07-23-2011, 4:37pm
One asshole's opinion doesn't represent an entire car company.
That's not just one assholes opinion. Well, actually that comment is, but the web is full of them. My SIL has one and it's in the shop more than it's on the road - and it's her second one. She didn't learn the first time. It's like a status symbol instead of luxury transportation.
I can see why people like them (BMWs), especially true car people.
They are a true driver's car. I've liked them ever since I sat in my first one at O.E Harring Motors in New Orleans.
BuckyThreadkiller
07-23-2011, 4:52pm
Over the past few years of detailing thousands of cars, I have become dissappointed with GM, they are just blah, the only GM I will ever own will be corvette's. My Clientele has started over the past few years to become high end vehicles. The quality and drivability is just that much better. Don't get me wrong the CTS-V is an incredible car, but there is somthing about it that is just too much. As alot of my clients start to get Lexus, BMW, and benz's I appreciate the higher end materials used. Call me crazy but the paint on a BMW is alot easier to correct then say GM's paint. Maybe its the finesse of the cars, but I just like them better.
GM has always blamed the orange peel and paint issues on the requirements of painting cars under the EPA guidelines.
I'd be curious if BMW paint done in Europe is better or different than BMWs painted in Spartanburg.
I do know when I've replaced a tail lamp in a GM product, I went to Napa paid a buck and got a new bulb.
When I had to do it in the Bimmer, Napa said only BMW had the right bulb and it was $17.50 from the parts counter at the dealership.
Omega Man
07-23-2011, 4:57pm
Try topping 13+ weeks and a Douche of a corporation for the V. Let's see, an 07 Z dealer butchered NON SUPPORT GM, 08 Z Lemon Lawed, 09 V major POS which GM was taken to litigation over.
Sure sign me up for some more GM Kool Aid, I'll take a V with sunroof rattles, isolator noises, oil leak on the engine, broken welds in the roof, and using 2 quarts of oil in 4K miles. PLEASE LET ME GET ONE OF THOSE GREAT CARS.
All most people read are what their hearts tell them to read. Maybe I'll have problems with the M3 but so far it has gone longer than any of the GM vehicles without a trip to the dealer for repairs. Oh it did go and get the rear end fluid changed, oil changed and a once over under the maintenance plan today.
Maybe GM will pull their heads out of the sand and build a great C7, time will tell. Until then I'll take the chance with the M3.
But, but, but, the GM Nut swingers are all hurt by your comments. Whhhaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Why can't people understand that GM makes plenty of shitty cars? Sure, so does Merc, BMW and Porsche and Audi.
The difference is how you are treated and how the company takes care of you.
GM is a big hunk of failure when it comes to service after the sale. This is enough for me to spend my $$ elsewhere.
I say the C7 will still be fairly shitty compared to the 911, R8 etc. It will be fast, but shitty build quality, shitty materials, and shitty service.
My $$ is on the new 911S (991).
Nemesis
07-23-2011, 5:07pm
The dealership isn't the only place that can service a car.
what fool who parts with his 100K for a car is gonna take it to Moe's Garage?
Re-read Monk's post. I bolded the important part:
People always think short term, go to your BMW dealership and get it repaired when you're out of warranty, I dare ya. You realize BMW programs certain parts for your car only, meaning you can't use parts from another car (same model) on your car, it's brand new BMW parts or nothing.
To bring an out of warranty BMW, or any other make, to the dealership is not a money saving tactic.
Poog read between the lines:
If Moe's Garage is a private BMW specialist, it more than likely has better mechanics than most BMW stealerships, and they are less expensive.
So the fool is the rich guy who doesn't know any better.
Case in point. To replace the clutch on an E36 M3 at the local BMW dealership, the parts/labor is over $3,000. At the local BMW specialist, who always beat me at the track, $1620. Guess who replaced my clutch?
Nemesis
07-23-2011, 5:09pm
I can see why people like them (BMWs), especially true car people.
They are a true driver's car. I've liked them ever since I sat in my first one at O.E Harring Motors in New Orleans.
:iagree:
If you hate BMW cars, its because you either took poor care of it or are just ignorant. Maybe you got a lemon, but every car company puts out a lemon every once in a while.
Nemesis
07-23-2011, 5:11pm
That's not just one assholes opinion. Well, actually that comment is, but the web is full of them. My SIL has one and it's in the shop more than it's on the road - and it's her second one. She didn't learn the first time. It's like a status symbol instead of luxury transportation.
Do a google search. You'll find an equal number of complaints about Cadillac. Every big company has satisfied and dissatisfied customers. Not everything you read on the internet is written by someone who has a clue what they're talking about.
C5Longhorn
07-23-2011, 5:21pm
I don't like the current profile of European cars implementing the pedestrian crash standards. The noses are too upright and the hoods too tall. :(
I agree and no where is this more evident than all the new AMG models.
There was a post a bit back about the Kidney grills on the BMW, what about the famous cobalt steering wheel in the Vette? Ever notice how almost all Chevrolet's look the same in the front?
I'm not defending one or the other, I thought I'd post up the article to get a forward look and comparison on the new BMW and V. If you read on the Caddie forum everyone bashes the Bimmers, on the Bimmer forum everyone bashes everything but Bimmer.
Maybe it is time to find something on the Hyundai.
:iagree:
If you hate BMW cars, its because you either took poor care of it or are just ignorant. Maybe you got a lemon, but every car company puts out a lemon every once in a while.
I love 'em.
But my DD has to be more reliable b/c I rely on it to make $$$$.
But I ain't drivin' no Yoda or Honda.
I love 'em.
But my DD has to be more reliable b/c I rely on it to make $$$$.
But I ain't drivin' no Yoda or Honda.
Have one of each...
dependable as sunrise :yesnod:
and the dealerships treat you like actual human customers.
I couldn't get over the difference in customer relationships. When I took the M3 in for it's 1200 mile checkup, the dealership was courteous, brought you into an office, showed the work to be done, explained all the maintenance, asked if anything else on the car needed looked at, asked if you are pleased with the car and when completed again explained the work, returned the car with a clean interior and exterior.
Now a Cadillac dealership: Drive into the garage they call the service bay, hand the keys off to the adviser, try to explain the problems over six other people talking and the phone ringing, watch as some 18 year old jockey tries to figure out how to start the car, drive the car and fool with the radio stations while putting down a floor mat. When car is completed, get handed the keys and receipt told the car is out front and have a nice day.
There was also a comment on here about the long lines at the BMW service department. Could it be in our area there are three BMW dealers, one in Bowling Green, one in Louisville and the local one in Evansville. How many GM dealerships are in the same area? We have 5 Chevy dealers, 3 Cadillac dealers, 5 GMC dealers, 5 Buick dealers all within 30 miles of my location.
Quantity makes a difference.
VatorMan
07-24-2011, 7:47am
I'd love to have a 5 series M. But $40K is a deal breaker. I mean, who really uses their luxury car to the point that you can see the difference in performance ? So now you are talking about fit,finish, and exclusivity. You don't see many of either on the road.
Have one of each...
dependable as sunrise :yesnod:
and the dealerships treat you like actual human customers.
I drive the Jag in for an oil change w/o an appointment and I'm gone in an hour.
Took the EXT in for the door actuator recall, got an Escalade for a loaner.
Don't know how I could've been treated better.
There was also a comment on here about the long lines at the BMW service department. Could it be in our area there are three BMW dealers, one in Bowling Green, one in Louisville and the local one in Evansville. How many GM dealerships are in the same area? We have 5 Chevy dealers, 3 Cadillac dealers, 5 GMC dealers, 5 Buick dealers all within 30 miles of my location.
Quantity makes a difference.
Absolutely correct. There is one dealer in New Orleans (really Kenner) that serves quite a large area. For GM-Cadillac there is only one also, but another Cadillac dealer is only 30 miles away.
I drive the Jag in for an oil change w/o an appointment and I'm gone in an hour.
Took the EXT in for the door actuator recall, got an Escalade for a loaner.
Don't know how I could've been treated better.
was there holy communion offered after worshiping at the alter? :lol:
GRN ENVY
07-24-2011, 9:16am
GM has always blamed the orange peel and paint issues on the requirements of painting cars under the EPA guidelines.
I'd be curious if BMW paint done in Europe is better or different than BMWs painted in Spartanburg.
I do know when I've replaced a tail lamp in a GM product, I went to Napa paid a buck and got a new bulb.
When I had to do it in the Bimmer, Napa said only BMW had the right bulb and it was $17.50 from the parts counter at the dealership.
Thats interesting, because orange peel can be cause by a number of things, air temp, improper gun, too much or too little thinner and or reducer, as well as many other things. But I have never heard of the EPA guidelines causing it, I am not saying thats impossible but I personally havn't heard of such things.
As for the bulb, that is insane. There surely has to be a place other then the dealership who has the bulb, if not then I would say they have a monopoly
was there holy communion offered after worshiping at the alter? :lol:
I ain't in love with any of 'em (OEMs).
Traded in a 2006 KR on the EXT. Traded a 2004 Aviator on the Jag.
I buy the best vehicle for my needs at the time.
One marque worshipers are as boring as hell anyway.
I'm a car guy, I call 'em like I see 'em.
jaxgator
07-24-2011, 9:20am
One asshole's opinion doesn't represent an entire car company.
No, it doesn't, but many asshole's opinions do. Google "bmw sucks". And I am in total agreement with you that all car manufacturers make lemons.
My point is, I'm just of the opinion that if I can get the same or more car for 40k less, WhyTF would I spend that extra 40k? To show others that I can? I could care less what others think about me, my car or how much money I can flaunt.
Maybe GM will pull their heads out of the sand and build a great C7, time will tell. Until then I'll take the chance with the M3.
I thought we were comparing the V to the M5 and not the M3. :confused5:
I ain't in love with any of 'em (OEMs).
Traded in a 2006 KR on the EXT. Traded a 2004 Aviator on the Jag.
I buy the best vehicle for my needs at the time.
One marque worshipers are as boring as hell anyway.
I'm a car guy, I call 'em like I see 'em.
:iagree: :cheers:
Nemesis
07-24-2011, 11:34am
No, it doesn't, but many asshole's opinions do. Google "bmw sucks". And I am in total agreement with you that all car manufacturers make lemons.
My point is, I'm just of the opinion that if I can get the same or more car for 40k less, WhyTF would I spend that extra 40k? To show others that I can? I could care less what others think about me, my car or how much money I can flaunt.
The answer is; buy CPO and you'll get a used car for less that's better than the competitor's new car.
Also, you may have missed this post:
Do a google search. You'll find an equal number of complaints about Cadillac. Every big company has satisfied and dissatisfied customers. Not everything you read on the internet is written by someone who has a clue what they're talking about.
All these factory hotrods are pretty awesome., but I don't think I'd own any of 'em w/o a factory warranty.
That being said, IMHO, the Corvette, for what it is, is tough beat as far as a combination of performance and reliability.
No, it doesn't, but many asshole's opinions do. Google "bmw sucks". And I am in total agreement with you that all car manufacturers make lemons.
My point is, I'm just of the opinion that if I can get the same or more car for 40k less, WhyTF would I spend that extra 40k? To show others that I can? I could care less what others think about me, my car or how much money I can flaunt.
I thought we were comparing the V to the M5 and not the M3. :confused5:
We are but currently I have the M3. I'd like the M5 but I need to hit the lottery before the wife would agree to the upgrade.:)
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