View Full Version : Oldsmobile LF9 Diesel?
Montehall
06-02-2011, 9:40am
never heard of it before.
I was tootleing around Summitracing, and noticed it was a choice in the 350 SBC area.
I'm guessing it was a diesel 350, but I can't recall any vehicles that had...
what's the deal with it?
Kerrmudgeon
06-02-2011, 9:43am
I used to drive one (not new) around Florida around 1985? It was a 98 Olds loaded. Nice car but pretty loud and smokey.:D
Late 70's-early 80's GM had the infinite wisdom to rush to market a passenger car diesel. Said diesel was a quick conversion from the GM small block gas engine, which is why they were enormously popular and why you see so many of them still on the road today.
Late 70's-early 80's GM had the infinite wisdom to rush to market a passenger car diesel. Said diesel was a quick conversion from the GM small block gas engine, which is why they were enormously popular and why you see so many of them still on the road today.
Nailed it.:rofl:
mrvette
06-02-2011, 10:32am
Late 70's-early 80's GM had the infinite wisdom to rush to market a passenger car diesel. Said diesel was a quick conversion from the GM small block gas engine, which is why they were enormously popular and why you see so many of them still on the road today.
RONG!!!.....
when you use the term SB, small block, you almost always are referring to the SBC, the Olds block was in fact very similar to the Pontiac blocks of the 60-70's and Olds took the 350 version of that engine, and made a diesel out of it, lotsa troubles with the things, bottom ends let go, and something about pumps....many in junkyards with rods through the skirts.....
and NO you don't see many/any around, they all died a way premature fugly death....
:cheers:
Late 70's-early 80's GM had the infinite wisdom to rush to market a passenger car diesel. Said diesel was a quick conversion from the GM small block gas engine, which is why they were enormously popular and why you see so many of them still on the road today.
:iagree: Yep, after the first big oil crisis in '73, GM jumped in with diesel engines for for big cars like Olds. Prob was that the 350 engine wasn't beefy enough and they were a consant maintenance headache besides being noisy and stinky. Many were replace with gas engines, most were junked as they had little or no resale value. :train:
RONG!!!.....
when you use the term SB, small block, you almost always are referring to the SBC, the Olds block was in fact very similar to the Pontiac blocks of the 60-70's and Olds took the 350 version of that engine, and made a diesel out of it, lotsa troubles with the things, bottom ends let go, and something about pumps....many in junkyards with rods through the skirts.....
and NO you don't see many/any around, they all died a way premature fugly death....
:cheers:
RITE!
Which is why I said "GM small block" refering to the generic Buick-Pontiac-Olds all-in-one motors used in that era.
Late 70's-early 80's GM had the infinite wisdom to rush to market a passenger car diesel. Said diesel was a quick conversion from the GM small block gas engine, which is why they were enormously popular and why you see so many of them still on the road today.
RITE!
Which is why I said "GM small block" refering to the generic Buick-Pontiac-Olds all-in-one motors used in that era.
"GM" small block? You do realize that other than distributor tuneup components and perhaps a bolt here or there, nothing interchanges between the Buick, Olds and Pontiac V8's- right? They are each of their own design - not generic.
As for the diesel, as others have said, the design was based on a small block Olds engine - with many components from their gas engine being interchangeable. Which gave the (more sturdy) diesel block the ability to accept gas heads, etc. making them a good choice for a base for a performance Olds small block.
[QUOTE=88Z51;298329]"GM" small block? You do realize that other than distributor tuneup components and perhaps a bolt here or there, nothing interchanges between the Buick, Olds and Pontiac V8's- right? They are each of their own design - not generic.QUOTE]
Good point, as a matter of fact there was a great hue and cry from Olds lovers and others in the late '70's when GM started to use Chevy engines their beloved behemoths . It was considered sacrilege. :beat:
In the early 80's GM eliminated redundancy in the corporate line up by replacing the Olds 260 and 307, the Pontiac 301 and the Buick 350 with a generic GM small block, a version of the Chevy 305. Lawsuits were file when the consumers discovered this. GM stopped associating engines with particular divisions, and today all GM engines are produced by "GM powertrain" (GMPT) and are called GM "Corporate" engines.
mrvette
06-02-2011, 1:19pm
RITE!
Which is why I said "GM small block" refering to the generic Buick-Pontiac-Olds all-in-one motors used in that era.
Rong again, there was only ONE block casting size for the Pontiac/Olds no matter what size the displacement was.....the head bolt pattern was the same, for all those engines....but not head/induction/appearance items.... this was true from 326 to 455 in the Poncho lineup.....in fact the only way to tell the CI was to look for raised cast numbers on the block....or the year/ci code like my last Goat had a B body '70 455 in it....YH code....
I think the Buick engine, especially their version of the 455 was a considerably lighter casting, which is why the Wildcats of the era were a surprise in performance compared to others.....but I know the head bolt pattern was different and so would be the block casting...:cheers:
mrvette
06-02-2011, 1:26pm
In the early 80's GM eliminated redundancy in the corporate line up by replacing the Olds 260 and 307, the Pontiac 301 and the Buick 350 with a generic GM small block, a version of the Chevy 305. Lawsuits were file when the consumers discovered this. GM stopped associating engines with particular divisions, and today all GM engines are produced by "GM powertrain" (GMPT) and are called GM "Corporate" engines.
The last of the old Poncho engines left the line in '78, appearing in the '79 F bird for the last time, as most of them had the Olds 400 in there.....the Pontiac 301 was a vastly cut down 350, and even appeared with a turbo? some sort of packer on it.....but the cut down was done cheep, they simply cut the block deck off, and used some silly gaskets to make up for the top web/deck they blew gaskets faster than my ex wife.....:lol:
I could see the obvious end of the divisions in GM back in the 80's when a chebby engine was across the board, and Olds 350's got into Sevilles, even back in the 70's :cheers:
Late 70's-early 80's GM had the infinite wisdom to rush to market a passenger car diesel. Said diesel was a quick conversion from the GM small block gas engine, which is why they were enormously popular and why you see so many of them still on the road today.
In the early 80's GM eliminated redundancy in the corporate line up by replacing the Olds 260 and 307, the Pontiac 301 and the Buick 350 with a generic GM small block, a version of the Chevy 305. Lawsuits were file when the consumers discovered this. GM stopped associating engines with particular divisions, and today all GM engines are produced by "GM powertrain" (GMPT) and are called GM "Corporate" engines.
Yes, I understand the divisions ceased to produce their own engines and were replaced by small block Chevys, my point was to point out to you that prior to that, Buick, Olds and Pontiac all made their own engines - engines that were unique to themselves. The diesel engine in this conversation was based on an Oldsmobile small block - NOT a "corporate" GM engine (SBC).
GRN ENVY
06-02-2011, 1:31pm
Rong again, there was only ONE block casting size for the Pontiac/Olds no matter what size the displacement was.....the head bolt pattern was the same, for all those engines....but not head/induction/appearance items.... this was true from 326 to 455 in the Poncho lineup.....in fact the only way to tell the CI was to look for raised cast numbers on the block....or the year/ci code like my last Goat had a B body '70 455 in it....YH code....
I think the Buick engine, especially their version of the 455 was a considerably lighter casting, which is why the Wildcats of the era were a surprise in performance compared to others.....but I know the head bolt pattern was different and so would be the block casting...:cheers:
This might help to understand ALL the differences, and SIMILARITIES
Buick V8 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Buick_455_V8.JPG" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Buick_455_V8.JPG/250px-Buick_455_V8.JPG"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/b/bd/Buick_455_V8.JPG/250px-Buick_455_V8.JPG
Pontiac V8 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Question_book-new.svg" class="image"><img alt="Question book-new.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png
Rong again, there was only ONE block casting size for the Pontiac/Olds no matter what size the displacement was.....the head bolt pattern was the same, for all those engines....but not head/induction/appearance items.... this was true from 326 to 455 in the Poncho lineup.....in fact the only way to tell the CI was to look for raised cast numbers on the block....or the year/ci code like my last Goat had a B body '70 455 in it....YH code....
I think the Buick engine, especially their version of the 455 was a considerably lighter casting, which is why the Wildcats of the era were a surprise in performance compared to others.....but I know the head bolt pattern was different and so would be the block casting...:cheers:
Gotta tell ya, you're rong regarding Olds V8s. There are two distinct block sizes. Small block (260, 307, 330, 350 and 403) and big blocks (400, 425 and 455). While most external components are interchangeable between the small and big blocks (oil pans, timing covers, water pumps, distributors, valve covers, etc.), the big block is approx. 2 inches wider and an inch or so taller. Granted, both may look the same to the untrained eye, but there are two different variations of the 64 - up Olds V8.
Omega Man
06-02-2011, 1:40pm
I will add to this post is that the "Diesel" engines GM produced in the 70's and 80's are the reason that the US consumer fears diesel engines.
They were shit. Known for injector problems, fuel pump problems, loud, smokey and generally just shit for engines.
GM and their cost cutting cheap ass "rush it to market" thinking is the reason why we can't get some of the GOOD diesels from Europe right now.
The MFG's always say the same thing " We don't think that there is a market for them in the US".
GM ( and the other MFG's) is and was full of Fuking idiots.
Ford seems to be the only one with a clue on the powerful small displacement engines.
I will add to this post is that the "Diesel" engines GM produced in the 70's and 80's are the reason that the US consumer fears diesel engines.
They were shit. Known for injector problems, fuel pump problems, loud, smokey and generally just shit for engines.
GM and their cost cutting cheap ass "rush it to market" thinking is the reason why we can't get some of the GOOD diesels from Europe right now.
The MFG's always say the same thing " We don't think that there is a market for them in the US".
GM ( and the other MFG's) is and was full of Fuking idiots.
Ford seems to be the only one with a clue on the powerful small displacement engines.
100% fact.
I assumed Ron was being sarcastic.
The Olds block was chosen as the basis for the conversion and the compression issues were bad in '78 and '79, but were mostly cured in '80 and '81. Injector pump issues were never solved, mostly due to a lack of filtration and separation.
They were junk, plain and simple.
You could convert 'em back to gas pretty easily as the injector pump hot wire plugged right into the gas engine's distributor. You also had to change the gears in the rear end, otherwise you got crap gas mileage.
Most all of 'em have long been junked.
Gotta tell ya, you're rong regarding Olds V8s. There are two distinct block sizes. Small block (260, 307, 330, 350 and 403) and big blocks (400, 425 and 455). While most external components are interchangeable between the small and big blocks (oil pans, timing covers, water pumps, distributors, valve covers, etc.), the big block is approx. 2 inches wider and an inch or so taller. Granted, both may look the same to the untrained eye, but there are two different variations of the 64 - up Olds V8.
:iagree: My son and I wanted to put an Olds 455 engine in '79 Trans Am with a 403 and found out it wouldn't work without major mods to the heater box area because of the 455's higher deck height and added width. End up with a Poncho 455 which worked fine. :yesnod:
Yes, I understand the divisions ceased to produce their own engines and were replaced by small block Chevys, my point was to point out to you that prior to that, Buick, Olds and Pontiac all made their own engines - engines that were unique to themselves. The diesel engine in this conversation was based on an Oldsmobile small block - NOT a "corporate" GM engine (SBC).
I understand, all divisions had their own motors, point I was making was that they were all replaced with a common motor. I think we are making the same point! :cheers:
Uncle Pervey
06-02-2011, 3:11pm
My parents had an Olds 98 with the diesel and it was a great car for them, it never gave them a bit of trouble and they drove it nearly 250Kmiles. I bought a Buick Park Avenue with the Diesel and it was a Royal POS. I worked on it constantly, got to know the guys at the local diesel injection pump place well.
It was so frigging hard to start that I rigged up a separate little tank under the hood to hold a mixture of methanol and gasoline in. I used an aftermarket windshield wiper fluid pump to squirt a little of the mixture into the air cleaner housing. It evaporated too fast so I started using WD40 in the tank. Worked like a charm. I eventually traded it in and took it in the shorts on value. Some people pulled the diesels and put in small block gasoline V8, there was a local shop that did the job for aroud $2500.00 turnkey or $1200.00 if you supplied them with a V8 that would fit. :leaving:
mrvette
06-02-2011, 4:26pm
:iagree: My son and I wanted to put an Olds 455 engine in '79 Trans Am with a 403 and found out it wouldn't work without major mods to the heater box area because of the 455's higher deck height and added width. End up with a Poncho 455 which worked fine. :yesnod:
I"m an old Poncho head since the 389 daze and I found out the Olds and Poncho took the same head gasket, I would assume they had the same blocks therefore....guess not....sorry guys....
however I did take a OLDS 350/CADDY 425 DPFI sytem off a '79 Seville and put it on my Poncho engine....still have the induction setup, not so awful evil for a home brew setup....
:lol::cheers:
and I found out the Olds and Poncho took the same head gasket,
Sorry man, rong again.......
mrvette
06-02-2011, 9:31pm
Sorry man, rong again.......
Odd, I distinctly remember reading the label on a FelPro head gasket set, and them saying fits Olds xxx and Pontiac xxx
but now you going to ask what specific engines, and I gotta say I dunno...
but SOME of them had to be the same or that couldn't happen??....
curious to how....
:confused5:
polarbear
06-02-2011, 11:54pm
I remember those damned things when they were new. What a POS. But no one mentioned VW's little diesel that came out about the same time. It was also a gas conversion, and was about as durable and reliable as GM's V8 diesel. That is to say, both were about as durable as a potato chip.
mrvette
06-03-2011, 5:11am
I remember those damned things when they were new. What a POS. But no one mentioned VW's little diesel that came out about the same time. It was also a gas conversion, and was about as durable and reliable as GM's V8 diesel. That is to say, both were about as durable as a potato chip.
Neighbor across the street from the Ex, his kids were teenagers 30 years ago, he had TWO VW rabbits I think they were diesels at any rate, he could not keep them on the road, he refused to admit they were a POS....:lol:
Odd, I distinctly remember reading the label on a FelPro head gasket set, and them saying fits Olds xxx and Pontiac xxx
but now you going to ask what specific engines, and I gotta say I dunno...
but SOME of them had to be the same or that couldn't happen??....
curious to how....
:confused5:
Fel Pro (and other manufactures) labels (and catalogs) will often include (or exclude) the "1975 400" which was used in some of the full size Oldsmobiles. The 1975 400 that they refer to is in fact a Pontiac engine.
:iagree: Yep, after the first big oil crisis in '73, GM jumped in with diesel engines for for big cars like Olds. Prob was that the 350 engine wasn't beefy enough and they were a consant maintenance headache besides being noisy and stinky. Many were replace with gas engines, most were junked as they had little or no resale value. :train:
My parents had a couple diesels in the 80's-- one was a Cutlass Ciera with a diesel V6, and then a freaking woodpanel Olds station wagon with the 350 diesel.
Clattered like a mofo! Those engines are the reason America still has a distaste for diesel passenger cars. Plus, when you turned the ignition on, you'd have to wait for the "wait" light to go out before you could start it because the glow plugs took a while to heat up.
The 350 diesels do have a loyal following-- once you fix GM's 2 or 3 critical design defects, they are very stout motors that will last forever.
mrvette
06-03-2011, 3:31pm
My parents had a couple diesels in the 80's-- one was a Cutlass Ciera with a diesel V6, and then a freaking woodpanel Olds station wagon with the 350 diesel.
Clattered like a mofo! Those engines are the reason America still has a distaste for diesel passenger cars. Plus, when you turned the ignition on, you'd have to wait for the "wait" light to go out before you could start it because the glow plugs took a while to heat up.
The 350 diesels do have a loyal following-- once you fix GM's 2 or 3 critical design defects, they are very stout motors that will last forever.
I had the understanding the block itself was not beefy enough .....how to fix that??
I have to wonder how in hell any Mercedes ever made it in this country, when that early diesel import 200D?? was the most FUGLY homely looking NOISE box to ever hit the roads.....WHO in hell would ever buy them,?? but yet they were all over DC roads, getting passed by VW bugs....even yet....
:rofl::cheers:
I had the understanding the block itself was not beefy enough .....how to fix that??
I have to wonder how in hell any Mercedes ever made it in this country, when that early diesel import 200D?? was the most FUGLY homely looking NOISE box to ever hit the roads.....WHO in hell would ever buy them,?? but yet they were all over DC roads, getting passed by VW bugs....even yet....
:rofl::cheers:
The block was fine-- it was in fact designed specifically for diesel use, and made of a different alloy than the gas version.
The most obvious mistake was the lack of a water separator which caused lots of fuel problems.
The internet makes me sound like I know what the hell I'm talking about, but I mainly just read this link:
Car Lust: Oldsmobile 350 Diesel (http://www.carlustblog.com/2009/02/oldsmobile-350-diesel.html)
The block was fine-- it was in fact designed specifically for diesel use, and made of a different alloy than the gas version.
The most obvious mistake was the lack of a water separator which caused lots of fuel problems.
The internet makes me sound like I know what the hell I'm talking about, but I mainly just read this link:
Car Lust: Oldsmobile 350 Diesel (http://www.carlustblog.com/2009/02/oldsmobile-350-diesel.html)
Or you coulda just read my post.:D
GM soured a lot of folks on diesel in the US, but really, diesels in a passenger car (in the US) are the answer to a question that nobody asked.
Or you coulda just read my post.:D
GM soured a lot of folks on diesel in the US, but really, diesels in a passenger car (in the US) are the answer to a question that nobody asked.
:bs
GM did not sell enough of them to make a dent.
I'm willing to bet if you asked almost any non car person, most never even heard of the 350 diesel.
Get behind any city bus back in the '70's and '80's and you will know what most people think of when they hear the word diesel.
Many of them went 200k + miles. I know where a ’75 Chevy truck us right now that is still running it original diesel engine.
:bs
GM did not sell enough of them to make a dent.
I'm willing to bet if you asked almost any non car person, most never even heard of the 350 diesel.
Get behind any city bus back in the '70's and '80's and you will know what most people think of when they hear the word diesel.
Many of them went 200k + miles. I know where a ’75 Chevy truck us right now that is still running it original diesel engine.
I respectfully disagree. GM, at the time of the diesel fiasco, was the King.
While they didn't sell many (thank God) the recalls, dismal resale value, and well-known reliability issues were more than enough to scare the average consumer away from domestic diesel passenger cars for a loooong time.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone disagree with that.
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