So, I got the free Full Self driving trial this morning

[GrandSportC3]

Tesla has a promotion to give every Tesla owner FSD for one month for free. They are doing this to collect more data. So, I used it this morning to get from my home to my daughter's school and then from her school to Wawa and then from Wawa back home. The system did NOT make any driving mistakes BUT it completely ignored school zone speed limits. Here in Florida, we usually have a flashing light combined with a school zone speed limit sign. So, whenever the light is flashing, you are supposed to go that speed. FSD did not care and kept on going at the normal, non school time, speed limit. While the system drove very good and obeyed all other system, this is still not ready for prime time. I'm glad that I'm not paying for it. I may consider it once it is out of beta. I reported the school zone incidents via the reporting feature that prompts you to explain why you disengaged FSD. Hopefully, the next update will fix the school zone issue. Other than that, I had no issues but the school zone issue is a big one. While I doubt that the car would hit a kid, it could cost you a high $$$$ fine if you get caught doing 45 mph at a 15 mph school zone speed limit.

[Big bob]

Send it down to Steve and have it take him to the drag strip. Maybe that will shut him up once and for all. I for one am sick of seeing his wife flipping off the tail lights. And his better than all attitude since he moved to the swamp side of the island. That would give him a reason to dust off his fire suit.:rofl:

[Yadkin]

Tesla has a promotion to give every Tesla owner FSD for one month for free. They are doing this to collect more data. So, I used it this morning to get from my home to my daughter's school and then from her school to Wawa and then from Wawa back home. The system did NOT make any driving mistakes BUT it completely ignored school zone speed limits. Here in Florida, we usually have a flashing light combined with a school zone speed limit sign. So, whenever the light is flashing, you are supposed to go that speed. FSD did not care and kept on going at the normal, non school time, speed limit. While the system drove very good and obeyed all other system, this is still not ready for prime time. I'm glad that I'm not paying for it. I may consider it once it is out of beta. I reported the school zone incidents via the reporting feature that prompts you to explain why you disengaged FSD. Hopefully, the next update will fix the school zone issue. Other than that, I had no issues but the school zone issue is a big one. While I doubt that the car would hit a kid, it could cost you a high $$$$ fine if you get caught doing 45 mph at a 15 mph school zone speed limit.

You risked killing a kid and/or getting a big fine for an employer that convinced you to work for free.

[Big bob]

You risked killing a kid and/or getting a big fine for an employer that convinced you to work for free.


Reading is not your strong suit is it. I bet just the thought of all those little kids got you all in a tizzy. :yaddy:

[GrandSportC3]

You risked killing a kid and/or getting a big fine for an employer that convinced you to work for free.

no, I didn't risk anything. The trial is called "SUPERVISED" trial and you need to keep your eyes on the road (interior camera is watching your eyes). So, obviously, I stepped on the brakes and slowed to school zone speed limit. That's the way you are SUPPOSED to use FSD. It is BETA software and needs supervision. Tesla communicates that CLEARLY to users. You have to tap on AGREE that this is supposed to be supervised and you have to intervene if the system makes mistakes. You can choose NOT to use it if you are NOT comfortable doing that. The PURPOSE of the free trial is to gather data and fix issues like that. While I personally wouldn't pay $8k for FSD (unless it was out of beta and not requiring supervision), I'm more than happy to help making the system better by participating in the free trial.

[Onebadcad]

Fine is $300 in your county for over 19 mph, that would have killed a few hot lunches.

[GrandSportC3]

Fine is $300 in your county for over 19 mph, that would have killed a few hot lunches.

I think that 30 mph over (45 in a 15 mph zone) would be arrest and thousands of $.. That's 3 times the speed limit.

[jw38]

Tesla has a promotion to give every Tesla owner FSD for one month for free. They are doing this to collect more data. So, I used it this morning to get from my home to my daughter's school and then from her school to Wawa and then from Wawa back home. The system did NOT make any driving mistakes BUT it completely ignored school zone speed limits. Here in Florida, we usually have a flashing light combined with a school zone speed limit sign. So, whenever the light is flashing, you are supposed to go that speed. FSD did not care and kept on going at the normal, non school time, speed limit. While the system drove very good and obeyed all other system, this is still not ready for prime time. I'm glad that I'm not paying for it. I may consider it once it is out of beta. I reported the school zone incidents via the reporting feature that prompts you to explain why you disengaged FSD. Hopefully, the next update will fix the school zone issue. Other than that, I had no issues but the school zone issue is a big one. While I doubt that the car would hit a kid, it could cost you a high $$$$ fine if you get caught doing 45 mph at a 15 mph school zone speed limit.

Didn't make any mistakes? Are you crazy? Ignoring the speed limit in a school zone is a HUGE mistake. Holy shit...you make excuses for Tesla all day long. I look forward to the day that a Tesla driver using FSD hits one of my cars. I'll sue the living **** out of the cuck who thinks that he/she has no responsibility for controlling the car themselves and I'll sue the living **** out of Tesla for thinking that using software is a legitimate way to control a potentially deadly weapon. Big ****ing deal that you don't "think" that the car would hit a child. When one does, and it WILL happen, whoever is in the driver's seat NOT driving, will be in a world of hurt.

[Yadkin]

no, I didn't risk anything.

Yes you did. Had you been driving normally, you would have slowed down sooner. And you still worked for free.

[GrandSportC3]

Didn't make any mistakes? Are you crazy? Ignoring the speed limit in a school zone is a HUGE mistake. Holy shit...you make excuses for Tesla all day long. I look forward to the day that a Tesla driver using FSD hits one of my cars. I'll sue the living **** out of the cuck who thinks that he/she has no responsibility for controlling the car themselves and I'll sue the living **** out of Tesla for thinking that using software is a legitimate way to control a potentially deadly weapon. Big ****ing deal that you don't "think" that the car would hit a child. When one does, and it WILL happen, whoever is in the driver's seat NOT driving, will be in a world of hurt.

I said "DRIVING" mistakes, meaning it stayed in the center of the lane, stopped at every stop sign or red traffic light and did not have any hard braking events.
It's a DRIVING RULE mistake.

[GrandSportC3]

Yes you did. Had you been driving normally, you would have slowed down sooner. And you still worked for free.

No, I paid attention and when I realized that the car wasn't slowing down, I immediately did.

[jw38]

I said "DRIVING" mistakes, meaning it stayed in the center of the lane, stopped at every stop sign or red traffic light and did not have any hard braking events.
It's a DRIVING RULE mistake.

Like I said, you'll make excuses for Tesla all day long. Tell that to the judge when you run over a child in the school zone. "But your Honor, it wasn't a driving mistake. All it did was ignore a rule." You'll be able to save a lot of money on gas when you're in prison and the child's family takes everything you own.

No, I paid attention and when I realized that the car wasn't slowing down, I immediately did.

I hope that makes you feel better, but it sure as **** won't save you in court. I was paying attention, but I wasn't driving.

[Vandelay Industries]

Today I learned that controlling a the speed of a vehicle is NOT a driving skill. :cool1:

[slewfoot]

You risked killing a kid and/or getting a big fine for an employer that convinced you to work for free.

no, I didn't risk anything. The trial is called "SUPERVISED" trial and you need to keep your eyes on the road (interior camera is watching your eyes). So, obviously, I stepped on the brakes and slowed to school zone speed limit. That's the way you are SUPPOSED to use FSD. It is BETA software and needs supervision. Tesla communicates that CLEARLY to users. You have to tap on AGREE that this is supposed to be supervised and you have to intervene if the system makes mistakes. You can choose NOT to use it if you are NOT comfortable doing that. The PURPOSE of the free trial is to gather data and fix issues like that. While I personally wouldn't pay $8k for FSD (unless it was out of beta and not requiring supervision), I'm more than happy to help making the system better by participating in the free trial.


You realize you're explaining it to a doorknob?

[LATB]

Interesting. But I have zero desire in having a self driving vehicle.

[Yadkin]

No, I paid attention and when I realized that the car wasn't slowing down, I immediately did.

Again, you would have slowed down sooner had you not been doing Tesla's work, for free.

[Steve_R]

Today I learned that controlling a the speed of a vehicle is NOT a driving skill. :cool1:

I'll use that as my defense if I ever get a speeding ticket. I'm sure the judge will dismiss the charges. :yesnod:

[GrandSportC3]

Like I said, you'll make excuses for Tesla all day long. Tell that to the judge when you run over a child in the school zone. "But your Honor, it wasn't a driving mistake. All it did was ignore a rule." You'll be able to save a lot of money on gas when you're in prison and the child's family takes everything you own.



I hope that makes you feel better, but it sure as **** won't save you in court. I was paying attention, but I wasn't driving.

I'm not making an excuse. I'm pointing out an issue. The entire free trial thing is meant for exactly that. Finding issues with the system so that Tesla can improve their FSD software. I've said it before and I say it again. Unless this works flawless, I would not pay for it but I don't mind helping Tesla to gather data and find issues. YES, this is an issue and it's a good thing that people are finding issues as this is the only way that the system can get better. IT IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME right now.

[Yadkin]

Interesting. But I have zero desire in having a self driving vehicle.

With all the shitty drivers out there, I hope this technology becomes mainstream. Maybe then, the passing lane won't be full of drivers texting. :spdchk:

[dvarapala]

In for the vids. :waiting:

[Steve_R]

Does it have a feature to race minivans from stoplight to stoplight while not going more than 10 mph over the speed limit? That would be awesome to do while texting or sleeping. :yesnod:

[GrandSportC3]

Again, you would have slowed down sooner had you not been doing Tesla's work, for free.

I don't mind helping improve a system. I'm just not going to pay for my money to help them. I like cool new technology and I'm happy if I can help to improve the system. It is pretty cool, just not perfect at this time. The difference to the first time I tried FSD is HUGE. They are moving in the right direction.

[SurfnSun]

I can see where time adjusted speed limits would pose a problem for a system like that. Hence the reason a human driver should always be in control.

[Yadkin]

I don't mind helping improve a system. I'm just not going to pay for my money to help them. I like cool new technology and I'm happy if I can help to improve the system. It is pretty cool, just not perfect at this time. The difference to the first time I tried FSD is HUGE. They are moving in the right direction.

You mean that you don't mind risking the lives of precious young folk for the betterment of Tesla profits.

[GrandSportC3]

In for the vids. :waiting:

I will start recording the drive to my daughter's school this afternoon. At the time I will arrive at the school, the flashing light will NOT be on yet, so, I won't be able to recreate the issue I encountered in the morning.

Another potential issue is when leaving the school. When I leave the school, there is no school zone sign and the system has no way of knowing that it is a school zone and that the flashing light is on. The only real way to solve it would be a database that has all the school zone times so that the car will know based on location and time of the day. I see no other way to fix that.

[Yadkin]

Does it have a feature to race minivans from stoplight to stoplight while not going more than 10 mph over the speed limit? That would be awesome to do while texting or sleeping. :yesnod:

Wouldn't the software techs program this for the posted speed limit and no more? I can see these things poking along an arrow straight two-lane, with a hundred or so cars behind them.

[Yadkin]

Another potential issue is when leaving the school. When I leave the school, there is no school zone sign and the system has no way of knowing that it is a school zone and that the flashing light is on. The only real way to solve it would be a database that has all the school zone times so that the car will know based on location and time of the day. I see no other way to fix that.

This one's a real challenge for software techs. Not knowing that the car is in a school zone while leaving the school's driveway. :spdchk:

[GrandSportC3]

You mean that you don't mind risking the lives of precious young folk for the betterment of Tesla profits.

No dangerous situation was encountered. Even if the car would have kept going at 45 mph, nothing would have happened except maybe a fine. There are very very few kids crossing the street in that section. Just because I was braking 1 second later for the school zone didn't endanger anyone. Again, the system is supposed to be monitored. It is a BETA product but if we don't test it, it will never be perfect. It's a necessity. I work in software development and we test the shit out of every program that goes into production. My system moves hundreds of billions of $ every day and if there is a coding mistake, it can cost the bank or clients millions and also makes us at risk of getting sued. So, testing is an important thing and that's exactly what the FSD trial does. It gives cool technology in the hands of a lot of people in exchange for valuable testing data gathered by those people.

[GrandSportC3]

This one's a real challenge for software techs. Not knowing that the car is in a school zone while leaving the school's driveway. :spdchk:

Working in IT, the product is only as good as the data going into it. If there is no data that an area is a school zone and the school zone is active, there is zero way for the car to know that UNLESS there is a database with all the school zones and times that the restrictions are active. There is no other way. FSD operates by reading traffic signs. If it doesn't see a sign, it doesn't know about any restriction.

[Swany00]

what's a kid or two for the greater good

[Steve_R]

Working in IT, the product is only as good as the data going into it. If there is no data that an area is a school zone and the school zone is active, there is zero way for the car to know that UNLESS there is a database with all the school zones and times that the restrictions are active. There is no other way.

So how can it work when there are temporary lane restrictions, lower speed limits, etc. for short term work, an accident, etc? Those aren't, and can't be, in any database.

[Yadkin]

Working in IT, the product is only as good as the data going into it. If there is no data that an area is a school zone and the school zone is active, there is zero way for the car to know that UNLESS there is a database with all the school zones and times that the restrictions are active. There is no other way. FSD operates by reading traffic signs. If it doesn't see a sign, it doesn't know about any restriction.

That's just plain dumb. Signs get taken down, or obstructed, all the time. Some asshole could take one down on purpose, or switch a 30 with a 55 just for kicks.

This is a perfect example of why software techs are not engineers.

[GrandSportC3]

So how can it work when there are temporary lane restrictions, lower speed limits, etc. for short term work, an accident, etc? Those aren't, and can't be, in any database.
It reads the signs and recognizes barriers without an issue. It just has issues with CONDITIONAL signs like the one with a flashing light.
I have taken FSD through construction zones with barriers and temporary speed limits and the car handled it just fine.

[GrandSportC3]

That's just plain dumb. Signs get taken down, or obstructed, all the time. Some asshole could take one down on purpose, or switch a 30 with a 55 just for kicks.

This is a perfect example of why software techs are not engineers.

If a sign is obstructed, even human drivers will miss it.

[GrandSportC3]

The flashing sign in question..

[Steve_R]

It reads the signs and recognizes barriers without an issue. It just has issues with CONDITIONAL signs like the one with a flashing light.
I have taken FSD through construction zones with barriers and temporary speed limits and the car handled it just fine.

So if there's a temporary condition without a sign it's useless. Yeah, that's valuable.

Apparently the Tesla engineers haven't been told that there aren't always signs for things, or that lots of signs have flashing lights.

[Vandelay Industries]

Since it's road destruction construction season again, I often wonder how FSD would do when there's a flagman directing traffic. I'm sure it would be flawless. :yesnod:

[GrandSportC3]

So if there's a temporary condition without a sign it's useless. Yeah, that's valuable.

Apparently the Tesla engineers haven't been told that there aren't always signs for things, or that lots of signs have flashing lights.


As I said, the system recognizes cones, barriers etc. and will slow down for them even if there is no speed limit sign. I may just look for a construction zone around town and give it a try and post the video. I have FSD for 30 days, so, I'll ty to run through tons of scenarios. I'm sure it will fail in some scenarios and that is a good thing as it will help make the system better as long as I report each mistake that the system is making.

[Steve_R]

I suspect I know the answer, but what would it do here (the small stop sign is for the bike lane next to, but not part of, the roadway; cars are not required to stop there):
.

[GrandSportC3]

Since it's road destruction construction season again, I often wonder how FSD would do when there's a flagman directing traffic. I'm sure it would be flawless. :yesnod:

Actually, that's a good scenario to test. Flagman usually have a temporary STOP sign and FSD is supposed to read that. I'll see if I find a flagman scenario somewhere around town.. Got scenario to test for.

[GrandSportC3]

I suspect I know the answer, but what would it do here (the small stop sign is for the bike lane next to, but not part of, the roadway; cars are not required to stop there):
.

Another good scenario but I doubt that we have something like that in my town. Definitely something that should be tested.

[GrandSportC3]

Does it have a feature to race minivans from stoplight to stoplight while not going more than 10 mph over the speed limit? That would be awesome to do while texting or sleeping. :yesnod:

Yes, it's called RED LIGHT RACING MODE. Car auto detects if there is a fast car beside you and automatically switches to drag strip mode, lowers the car and takes off at the light and accelerates until 10 mph above the speed limit :)

[Big bob]

If a sign is obstructed, even human drivers will miss it.


As you can see some are just incapable. And the barn has provided an appropriate automatic response system. :yaddy::rofl:

[Steve_R]

Another good scenario but I doubt that we have something like that in my town. Definitely something that should be tested.

There are bike lanes all over the island, most not connected to the roadway. There are small stop signs like that where they cross roads. I suspect the FSD would stop at every one of them.

Most bicyclists ignore them like they do all other road signs and laws, and some cars stop at them. :Jeff '79:

[Chemtrails99]

So in other words, Tesla is developing an individual bus for people who don't want to drive. Why the carbon footprint then, when buses already exist, and even electrc ones?

[Onebadcad]

Yes, it's called RED LIGHT RACING MODE. Car auto detects if there is a fast car beside you and automatically switches to drag strip mode, lowers the car and takes off at the light and accelerates until 10 mph above the speed limit :)

Adds to the soullessness of the vehicle

[Vandelay Industries]

Actually, that's a good scenario to test. Flagman usually have a temporary STOP sign and FSD is supposed to read that. I'll see if I find a flagman scenario somewhere around town.. Got scenario to test for.

Not in these parts. Usually a flagman or cop using hand signals.

[GrandSportC3]

There are bike lanes all over the island, most not connected to the roadway. There are small stop signs like that where they cross roads. I suspect the FSD would stop at every one of them.

Most bicyclists ignore them like they do all other road signs and laws, and some cars stop at them. :Jeff '79:

Looks confusing to me. I would probably be confused.

[Vandelay Industries]

That's just plain dumb. Signs get taken down, or obstructed, all the time. Some asshole could take one down on purpose, or switch a 30 with a 55 just for kicks.

This is a perfect example of why software techs are not engineers.

:lol:

102391

[Aerovette]

In related news.

I started and operated my vehicle all by myself this morning. No accidents or anything.

I am every bit as good as a Tesla, if not better, and to date, no one in my family has caught fire.

[Vandelay Industries]

In related news.

I started and operated my vehicle all by myself this morning. No accidents or anything.

I am every bit as good as a Tesla, if not better, and to date, no one in my family has caught fire.

But no warm meal, so you're hungry. :(

[dvarapala]

Does it have a feature to race minivans from stoplight to stoplight while not going more than 10 mph over the speed limit? That would be awesome to do while texting or sleeping. :yesnod:

Nope, and it never will. Nor will it have the feature to maintain a close following distance (what the Karens would call "tailgating") in order to prevent aggressive assholes from cutting in line in front of you, even though the reflexes of a computer are more than adequate for that task.

[dvarapala]

Yes, it's called RED LIGHT RACING MODE. Car auto detects if there is a fast car beside you and automatically switches to drag strip mode, lowers the car and takes off at the light and accelerates until 10 mph above the speed limit :)

When you finally get laid off from your programming job you should write that app. :lol:

[GrandSportC3]

When you finally get laid off from your programming job you should write that app. :lol:

I would rather work on a tree reader app for the drag strip.. Car stages itself very shallow and takes off every time with a perfect reaction time. That would be something I'd like to have :D

[GTOguy]

Again, you would have slowed down sooner had you not been doing Tesla's work, for free.
He probably pays $40 for Tesla branded T shirts and whatever else to pimp the brand, too. What an absolute ROCK HEAD.

[Yadkin]

If a sign is obstructed, even human drivers will miss it.

Only dumbasses won't know it's there.

[Big bob]

Only dumbasses won't know it's there.

Here is a sign for your dumbass.
:yaddy:

[MY03C5Z]

Tesla has a promotion to give every Tesla owner FSD for one month for free. They are doing this to collect more data. So, I used it this morning to get from my home to my daughter's school and then from her school to Wawa and then from Wawa back home. The system did NOT make any driving mistakes BUT it completely ignored school zone speed limits. Here in Florida, we usually have a flashing light combined with a school zone speed limit sign. So, whenever the light is flashing, you are supposed to go that speed. FSD did not care and kept on going at the normal, non school time, speed limit. While the system drove very good and obeyed all other system, this is still not ready for prime time. I'm glad that I'm not paying for it. I may consider it once it is out of beta. I reported the school zone incidents via the reporting feature that prompts you to explain why you disengaged FSD. Hopefully, the next update will fix the school zone issue. Other than that, I had no issues but the school zone issue is a big one. While I doubt that the car would hit a kid, it could cost you a high $$$$ fine if you get caught doing 45 mph at a 15 mph school zone speed limit.



Oh well, what’s a few dead school children, it’s all for the good of Tesla Beta testing!!! It’s all part of the learning curve. How amazing!!!!

[Yadkin]

Nope, and it never will. Nor will it have the feature to maintain a close following distance (what the Karens would call "tailgating") in order to prevent aggressive assholes from cutting in line in front of you, even though the reflexes of a computer are more than adequate for that task.

Gotta be aggressive to stay ahead of those aggressive assholes. :seasix:

[Aerovette]

Oh well, what’s a few dead school children, it’s all for the good of Tesla Beta testing!!! It’s all part of the learning curve. How amazing!!!!

Wonder what it does when a school bus is boarding with the lights flashing?

[sublime1996525]

The flashing sign in question..

So it can’t read a clearly displaying 15 mph sign? Flashing lights shouldn’t matter if it can read the signs..right?

I would rather work on a tree reader app for the drag strip.. Car stages itself very shallow and takes off every time with a perfect reaction time. That would be something I'd like to have :D

How To Make Drag Racing More Boring by GSC3 lol.

[dvarapala]

Gotta be aggressive to stay ahead of those aggressive assholes. :seasix:

* assertive

There is a difference. :yesnod:

If I had been driving that pickup truck, I would have PITted you into the ditch before I let your puny Mustang ass cut in front of me. ;)

[dvarapala]

How To Make Drag Racing More Boring by GSC3 lol.

:lol:

Step aside Full Self-Driving - GSC3 has invented Full Self-Racing! Heck, you don't even need to be in the car in order to win the race!! :funniest:

[dvarapala]

The system did NOT make any driving mistakes BUT it completely ignored school zone speed limits.

That's because this new version was trained exclusively by human drivers. :lol:

[jw38]

I'm not making an excuse. I'm pointing out an issue. The entire free trial thing is meant for exactly that. Finding issues with the system so that Tesla can improve their FSD software. I've said it before and I say it again. Unless this works flawless, I would not pay for it but I don't mind helping Tesla to gather data and find issues. YES, this is an issue and it's a good thing that people are finding issues as this is the only way that the system can get better. IT IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME right now.

And yet you're complicit with Tesla in that you're using a not ready for prime time system on public roadways, endangering the lives of those going about their daily lives. "Oops, sorry Mrs Smith. I didn't mean to run over your husband, but I was using a system with KNOWN flaws. Just think of the upside. Perhaps your husband gave his life for the greater good, um, the greater good of Tesla." Like I said previously, if I or anyone in my family ever gets hit or hurt by someone allowing the car to drive itself, I will sue the absolute **** out of that person and the car manufacturer. It is virtually impossible to write self-driving software that can react to every potential driving scenario.

I will start recording the drive to my daughter's school this afternoon. At the time I will arrive at the school, the flashing light will NOT be on yet, so, I won't be able to recreate the issue I encountered in the morning.

Another potential issue is when leaving the school. When I leave the school, there is no school zone sign and the system has no way of knowing that it is a school zone and that the flashing light is on. The only real way to solve it would be a database that has all the school zone times so that the car will know based on location and time of the day. I see no other way to fix that.

You just proved my point! Here's a fix...DRIVE THE ****ING CAR AND PAY ATTENTION!

[GTOguy]

And yet you're complicit with Tesla in that you're using a not ready for prime time system on public roadways, endangering the lives of those going about their daily lives. "Oops, sorry Mrs Smith. I didn't mean to run over your husband, but I was using a system with KNOWN flaws. Just think of the upside. Perhaps your husband gave his life forbthe greater good, um, the greater good of Tesla." Like I said previously, if I or anyone in my family ever gets hit or hurt by someone allowing the car to drive itself, I will sue the absolute **** out of that person and the car manufacturer. It is virtually impossible to write self-driving software that can react to every potential driving scenario.



You just proved my point! Here's a fix...DRIVE THE ****ING CAR AND PAY ATTENTION!
Grandsport really, truly can't see the forest through the trees. Are we sure he isn't an engineer?? I guess a lot of people these days are frozen in fear if they have a software issue. **** software. Say yes to LIVING LIFE.

[Don Rickles]

Real Life Crash Dummies!

I’d watch that show!

[MY03C5Z]

Wonder what it does when a school bus is boarding with the lights flashing?



It’s programmed to crowd plow like a 16 year old in a mustang GT leaving a cars and coffee….

[the new me]

It is said that it is easier to wear slippers than to carpet the whole world.

So far, it looks like Tesla FSD needs to carpet the whole world.

[RedLS1GTO]

You have to tap on AGREE that this is supposed to be supervised and you have to intervene if the system makes mistakes.

Oh, you have to tap on it. Kind of like you have to sign all of the paperwork at a dealership?

Funny that when it's Tesla, your defense is that they make you acknowledge (sign) a screen full of instructions. But.. .but... you have to tap the button!!!

And yet when it's anybody else, you argued repeatedly that a signature was not enough because people don't read before signing things.

You know how this goes.. Dealer gives you the document and shows you where to sign. Unfortunately, too many people don't read what they sign.
Does that make it right to screw them? Nope. Does it happen? Sure does.

[GrandSportC3]

And yet you're complicit with Tesla in that you're using a not ready for prime time system on public roadways, endangering the lives of those going about their daily lives. "Oops, sorry Mrs Smith. I didn't mean to run over your husband, but I was using a system with KNOWN flaws. Just think of the upside. Perhaps your husband gave his life for the greater good, um, the greater good of Tesla." Like I said previously, if I or anyone in my family ever gets hit or hurt by someone allowing the car to drive itself, I will sue the absolute **** out of that person and the car manufacturer. It is virtually impossible to write self-driving software that can react to every potential driving scenario.



You just proved my point! Here's a fix...DRIVE THE ****ING CAR AND PAY ATTENTION!The ONLY way to test such syatem is on the road. Nobody is getting run over. This is a supervised system. The more data the system has, the better it will perform.

[GrandSportC3]

Oh, you have to tap on it. Kind of like you have to sign all of the paperwork at a dealership?

Funny that when it's Tesla, your defense is that they make you acknowledge (sign) a screen full of instructions. But.. .but... you have to tap the button!!!

And yet when it's anybody else, you argued repeatedly that a signature was not enough because people don't read before signing things.
There is a difference of not reading a long contract and not reading 2 sentences.
I have been in many closings for real estate transactions and I have never ever read the entire document. If people would read the entire contract, closings would take 3 to 4 times longer.

[RedLS1GTO]

As I said, the system recognizes cones, barriers etc. and will slow down for them even if there is no speed limit sign. I may just look for a construction zone around town and give it a try and post the video. I have FSD for 30 days, so, I'll ty to run through tons of scenarios. I'm sure it will fail in some scenarios and that is a good thing as it will help make the system better as long as I report each mistake that the system is making.

Yea, can't wait to dodge the Tesla that randomly slams on the brakes because there is a f**king cone on the side of the road, or slows down to whatever the hell speed it chooses because there is a barrier even though there is no posted speed reduction.

I'm not making an excuse.

Yes you are.

Many of them.

I'm pointing out an issue. The entire free trial thing is meant for exactly that. Finding issues with the system so that Tesla can improve their FSD software.

No the point is that they remove themselves from liability for for the shit that goes wrong in their f-ed up software and put it on you instead. Most people are smart enough to figure that out.

IT IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME right now.

And how many years in a row has your messiah been promising that cars would be fully self driving "this year"? I believe the answer is every year since 2016. :lol:

[RedLS1GTO]

There is a difference of not reading a long contract and not reading 2 sentences.
I have been in many closings for real estate transactions and I have never ever read the entire document. If people would read the entire contract, closings would take 3 to 4 times longer.

Bullshit.

Who in the f**k is talking about real estate closings? Your previous answer was that people didn't even read the front page of a vehicle purchase order or the odometer statement. Nobody is talking about real estate contracts (other than you trying to defend your messiah). Hell, you're so pathetically lazy that you want the government to regulate autotrader because you can't be bothered to read past the first line.

Your answer is different now because it's Tesla. And it's equally hilarious and pathetic.

And yes, I'm still rooting for the phone pole.

[RedLS1GTO]

How To Make Drag Racing More Boring by GSC3 lol.

"Racing"

[Chemtrails99]

:lol:

Step aside Full Self-Driving - GSC3 has invented Full Self-Racing! Heck, you don't even need to be in the car in order to win the race!! :funniest:

Many kids love these electric slot cars!

[Louie Detroit]

Holy Shit - makes wonder how it would handle a work zone on a busy freeway.

[OnPoint]

It's stunning how lazy people are getting.

[GrandSportC3]

Yea, can't wait to dodge the Tesla that randomly slams on the brakes because there is a f**king cone on the side of the road, or slows down to whatever the hell speed it chooses because there is a barrier even though there is no posted speed reduction.


Yes you are.

Many of them.



No the point is that they remove themselves from liability for for the shit that goes wrong in their f-ed up software and put it on you instead. Most people are smart enough to figure that out.



And how many years in a row has your messiah been promising that cars would be fully self driving "this year"? I believe the answer is every year since 2016. :lol:

You are living in the past. Phantom braking is long gone. It was a thing for a while after they got rid of Lidar.
Of course they shouldn't have liability if driver fails to monitor the system as required. It is a beta product. You can choose not to use it. It's completely optional. The only way to refine the system is with more real world data and the only way to get that data is with a large number of drivers using it.

[Steve_R]

A federal report published today found that Tesla's Autopilot system was involved in at least 13 fatal crashes in which drivers misused the system in ways the automaker should have foreseen—and done more to prevent.


Huh, imagine that. I’m sure they tapped the screen so it’s not the driver’s fault.

[GrandSportC3]

Bullshit.

Who in the f**k is talking about real estate closings? Your previous answer was that people didn't even read the front page of a vehicle purchase order or the odometer statement. Nobody is talking about real estate contracts (other than you trying to defend your messiah). Hell, you're so pathetically lazy that you want the government to regulate autotrader because you can't be bothered to read past the first line.

Your answer is different now because it's Tesla. And it's equally hilarious and pathetic.

And yes, I'm still rooting for the phone pole.

When buying a new car at a traditional dealership, you have to sign many documents and nobody reads through all of them JUST LIKE A REAL ESTATE CLOSING. The FSD disclaimer is 2 sentences. Huge difference.

[LATB]

When buying a new car at a traditional dealership, you have to sign many documents and nobody reads through all of them JUST LIKE A REAL ESTATE CLOSING. The FSD disclaimer is 2 sentences. Huge difference.

Anyone who closes a real estate transaction and doesn’t read the documents is a damn fool.

[LATB]

There is a difference of not reading a long contract and not reading 2 sentences.
I have been in many closings for real estate transactions and I have never ever read the entire document. If people would read the entire contract, closings would take 3 to 4 times longer.

There is no rush in a real estate closing. Matter of fact the buyer and seller are delivered the documents ahead of closing for their review.
If someone is not comfortable reading the documents or not understanding the documents they should consult with an attorney who will read them and advise.
Again, only a fool would sign legal documents without reading them.

[GrandSportC3]

Anyone who closes a real estate transaction and doesn’t read the documents is a damn fool.

How many hours do your closings take? There is a lot to sign. Probably 20 pages total or more at times.

[LATB]

How many hours do your closings take? There is a lot to sign. Probably 20 pages total or more at times.

Never hours. Maybe one hour and that includes niceties and chitchat.
I have NEVER been in a closing where the title agent or attorney did not go over every document with the buyer/seller. That’s their job.

Fact is, I haven’t been to a closing in years. It’s mostly all done remotely and electronically nowadays. And the clients and/or their attorneys have ample opportunity to read the documents thoroughly.

[Yadkin]

Not in these parts. Usually a flagman or cop using hand signals.

Our local town roads during the week, it's usually guys working behind a truck parked in that lane. The Tesla would stop, and not start up again until they left. :Jeff '79:

[Yadkin]

* assertive

There is a difference. :yesnod:

If I had been driving that pickup truck, I would have PITted you into the ditch before I let your puny Mustang ass cut in front of me. ;)

Yeah, that's not aggression. At all. :Jeff '79:

[Yadkin]

The ONLY way to test such syatem is on the road. Nobody is getting run over. This is a supervised system. The more data the system has, the better it will perform.

It's hilarious that all these people are working for free, and the owner of Tesla is one of the richest men in the world. Talk about suckers. :Jeff '79:

[GrandSportC3]

Never hours. Maybe one hour and that includes niceties and chitchat.
I have NEVER been in a closing where the title agent or attorney did not go over every document with the buyer/seller. That’s their job.

Fact is, I haven’t been to a closing in years. It’s mostly all done remotely and electronically nowadays. And the clients and/or their attorneys have ample opportunity to read the documents thoroughly.

Title agent goes through every document and explains what it is BUT they don't read the document. Yes, you get the entire package days before BUT how did you know that what you are signing is the same that you got in the mail? I usually trust the title agent.

[GrandSportC3]

It's hilarious that all these people are working for free, and the owner of Tesla is one of the richest men in the world. Talk about suckers. :Jeff '79:

You are getting something in return. Not everyone is a boomer who isn't interested in new tech. Things like autopark and summon are included as well. You get some perks and in return, you report issues with FSD to help improve the product.

[dvarapala]

Yeah, that's not aggression. At all. :Jeff '79:

Nope - it's defensive driving. :yesnod:

The asshole in the Mustang who tried to cut in front of me was the aggressor. :thumbs:

[LATB]

Title agent goes through every document and explains what it is BUT they don't read the document. Yes, you get the entire package days before BUT how did you know that what you are signing is the same that you got in the mail? I usually trust the title agent.

They go through it and allow plenty of time to read and review.
You know because you sign it either hard copies that are sent to you or electronic signatures documents that you can read before signing.

I promise you that I have closed more properties personally than you ever will in your lifetime. Add the hundreds of closings for clients that I have been involved with over the past 30+ years.

And I have NEVER had a client not read what they are signing. And I can assure you that I would NEVER sign a legal document without reading it and understanding it.

Not sure what you mean by “usually trust the title agent”.

[SurfnSun]

No the point is that they remove themselves from liability for for the shit that goes wrong in their f-ed up software and put it on you instead. Most people are smart enough to figure that out.




Waiver or not, that will never stand up in court. Free or not, they can be held liable if it injures them or someone else.

[Yadkin]

Nope - it's defensive driving. :yesnod:

The asshole in the Mustang who tried to cut in front of me was the aggressor. :thumbs:

You bet damn straight I was. And that ***** backed off. :seasix:

[RedLS1GTO]

You are living in the past. Phantom braking is long gone.

As I said, the system recognizes cones, barriers etc. and will slow down for them even if there is no speed limit sign.

So which is it? Does it slow down, or doesn't it?

:waiting:

[LATB]

My truck has a few nany features that can be turned off. Most are annoying. I can’t imagine a self driving vehicle. Not something that I would want.

[RedLS1GTO]

Never hours. Maybe one hour and that includes niceties and chitchat.

It takes a lot longer if you stop for a hot meal and a 45 minute rest to avoid reader's fatigue after every 3 pages. :seasix:

[LATB]

It takes a lot longer if you stop for a hot meal and a 45 minute rest to avoid reader's fatigue after every 3 pages. :seasix:

Snap :rofl:

[jw38]

And yet you're complicit with Tesla in that you're using a not ready for prime time system on public roadways, endangering the lives of those going about their daily lives. "Oops, sorry Mrs Smith. I didn't mean to run over your husband, but I was using a system with KNOWN flaws. Just think of the upside. Perhaps your husband gave his life for the greater good, um, the greater good of Tesla." Like I said previously, if I or anyone in my family ever gets hit or hurt by someone allowing the car to drive itself, I will sue the absolute **** out of that person and the car manufacturer. It is virtually impossible to write self-driving software that can react to every potential driving scenario.



You just proved my point! Here's a fix...DRIVE THE ****ING CAR AND PAY ATTENTION!

The ONLY way to test such syatem is on the road. Nobody is getting run over. This is a supervised system. The more data the system has, the better it will perform.

I'm guessing that you have brown eyes because you're full of shit.

https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/26/24141361/tesla-autopilot-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-report-crash-death

"Tesla’s Autopilot and Full Self-Driving linked to hundreds of crashes, dozens of deaths / NHTSA found that Tesla’s driver-assist features are insufficient at keeping drivers engaged in the task of driving, which can often have fatal results."

"In March 2023, a North Carolina student was stepping off a school bus when he was struck by a Tesla Model Y traveling at “highway speeds,” according to a federal investigation that published today. The Tesla driver was using Autopilot, the automaker’s advanced driver-assist feature that Elon Musk insists will eventually lead to fully autonomous cars.

The 17-year-old student who was struck was transported to a hospital by helicopter with life-threatening injuries. But what the investigation found after examining hundreds of similar crashes was a pattern of driver inattention, combined with the shortcomings of Tesla’s technology, resulting in hundreds of injuries and dozens of deaths.

"Of those crashes, some of which involved other vehicles striking the Tesla vehicle, 29 people died. There were also 211 crashes in which “the frontal plane of the Tesla struck a vehicle or obstacle in its path.” These crashes, which were often the most severe, resulted in 14 deaths and 49 injuries.


The final 11 seconds of a fatal Tesla Autopilot crash
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/tesla-autopilot-crash-analysis/

Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first ‘Full Self-Driving’ fatality
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2024/tesla-full-self-driving-fatal-crash/

Don't try to tell me or anyone else that noone has died as a result of this. Keep your "self-driving" POS away from me and my family!

[markids77]

You willingly paid how much??? for an appliance which apparently not only records your every move while in it, but also sends the live stream back to "the mother ship"?
Have you lost your everloving mind?

[Big bob]

Kind of like a ride on cell phone.:rofl:

[markids77]

Kind of like a ride on cell phone.:rofl:

Yeah... don't fart, belch, pick your nose or scratch your balls... Musk et al will point and laugh at your expense.

[Big bob]

Yeah... don't fart, belch, pick your nose or scratch your balls... Musk et al will point and laugh at your expense.

Coming options?:hurray:

[GrandSportC3]

They go through it and allow plenty of time to read and review.
You know because you sign it either hard copies that are sent to you or electronic signatures documents that you can read before signing.

I promise you that I have closed more properties personally than you ever will in your lifetime. Add the hundreds of closings for clients that I have been involved with over the past 30+ years.

And I have NEVER had a client not read what they are signing. And I can assure you that I would NEVER sign a legal document without reading it and understanding it.

Not sure what you mean by “usually trust the title agent”.
What I mean with trusting the agent is that they didn't give me something to sign that is different than what I got in the mai. The only thing I really care in a closing is the financials or the HUD. I always check that the numbers on it are accurate... like commission and other closing cost. That's the only document that I take a closer look at.

[GrandSportC3]

So which is it? Does it slow down, or doesn't it?

:waiting:

That's not phantom braking. That is justified braking. Phantom braking is when the car brakes for an apparent reason. A construction zone or an emergency vehicle on the side of the road is a VALID reason to slow down. Obviously, I'm not talking about cones on the SIDE of the road but in one of the travel lanes, something that happens when there is construction.

[GrandSportC3]

I'm guessing that you have brown eyes because you're full of shit.

https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/26/24141361/tesla-autopilot-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-report-crash-death

"Tesla’s Autopilot and Full Self-Driving linked to hundreds of crashes, dozens of deaths / NHTSA found that Tesla’s driver-assist features are insufficient at keeping drivers engaged in the task of driving, which can often have fatal results."

"In March 2023, a North Carolina student was stepping off a school bus when he was struck by a Tesla Model Y traveling at “highway speeds,” according to a federal investigation that published today. The Tesla driver was using Autopilot, the automaker’s advanced driver-assist feature that Elon Musk insists will eventually lead to fully autonomous cars.

The 17-year-old student who was struck was transported to a hospital by helicopter with life-threatening injuries. But what the investigation found after examining hundreds of similar crashes was a pattern of driver inattention, combined with the shortcomings of Tesla’s technology, resulting in hundreds of injuries and dozens of deaths.

"Of those crashes, some of which involved other vehicles striking the Tesla vehicle, 29 people died. There were also 211 crashes in which “the frontal plane of the Tesla struck a vehicle or obstacle in its path.” These crashes, which were often the most severe, resulted in 14 deaths and 49 injuries.


The final 11 seconds of a fatal Tesla Autopilot crash
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/tesla-autopilot-crash-analysis/

Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first ‘Full Self-Driving’ fatality
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2024/tesla-full-self-driving-fatal-crash/

Don't try to tell me or anyone else that noone has died as a result of this. Keep your "self-driving" POS away from me and my family!

Those are beta systems with drivers required to pay attention. Yes, accidents can happen if the driver doesn't pay attention.
Many autopilot accidents happen because of ignorant drivers. They think that autopilot will stop at a stop sign or red light. It doesn't. Even the menu on the car tells you what it does. Autopiliot consists of autosteer (keep the lane) and adaptive cruise control (keep the distance to any vehicles in front of you). It was never designed to do anything else than that. People do stupid and illegal stuff all the time... like weights on their steering wheel to fool FSD or autopilot etc.

[GrandSportC3]

You willingly paid how much??? for an appliance which apparently not only records your every move while in it, but also sends the live stream back to "the mother ship"?
Have you lost your everloving mind?

Virtually every new car on the road has connectivity and is connected to the mothership. It's not just your car that is tracking you. If you have a smartphone, it knows all the places you have been and how long you stayed. Your smart home devices can all listen in on everything you do. It's not just cars. Your cell phone is even listening to you when it is turned off (depending on brand). This was revealed by one of the engineers designing one of those phones.. Some phones can still track you if the battery is out.. No kidding..

[Yadkin]

https://media.tenor.com/Y0Y9IvveZUUAAAAM/ultimate-driving-roblox.gif.

[RedLS1GTO]

That's not phantom braking. That is justified braking. Phantom braking is when the car brakes for an apparent reason. A construction zone or an emergency vehicle on the side of the road is a VALID reason to slow down. Obviously, I'm not talking about cones on the SIDE of the road but in one of the travel lanes, something that happens when there is construction.

I never used the phrase "phantom braking". You did. You are the one that started talking about phantom braking ...and then you argued against it. Holy shit. Are you even remotely capable of an honest discussion or is this strawman deflection bullshit all that you know?

There are many construction zones with barriers and cones that maintain the normal posted speed limit. You're telling me that this thing will slow down to some arbitrary speed, even in the absence of signs, regardless of there being an actual speed limit change or not.

Thank you for confirming exactly what I originally said before you tried to deflect from it with your "phantom braking" bullshit. :seasix:

Yea, can't wait to dodge the Tesla that randomly slams on the brakes because there is a f**king cone on the side of the road, or slows down to whatever the hell speed it chooses because there is a barrier even though there is no posted speed reduction.

[Steve_R]

Virtually every new car on the road has connectivity and is connected to the mothership. It's not just your car that is tracking you. If you have a smartphone, it knows all the places you have been and how long you stayed. Your smart home devices can all listen in on everything you do. It's not just cars. Your cell phone is even listening to you when it is turned off (depending on brand). This was revealed by one of the engineers designing one of those phones.. Some phones can still track you if the battery is out.. No kidding..

Having connectivity and having a camera actively watching you are two VERY different things. Being able to track where you've been and having a camera actively watching you are two VERY different things.

We don't have connectivity activated in either of our cars, and we have no "smart" home devices.

[Big bob]

So you don't have a cell phone.:confused5:

[jw38]

Those are beta systems with drivers required to pay attention. Yes, accidents can happen if the driver doesn't pay attention.
Many autopilot accidents happen because of ignorant drivers. They think that autopilot will stop at a stop sign or red light. It doesn't. Even the menu on the car tells you what it does. Autopiliot consists of autosteer (keep the lane) and adaptive cruise control (keep the distance to any vehicles in front of you). It was never designed to do anything else than that. People do stupid and illegal stuff all the time... like weights on their steering wheel to fool FSD or autopilot etc.

SO IS YOURS! Many autopilot and self-driving accidents happen because cars should not be driven by software.

I noticed that you didn't have any reply about the innocent people who have been killed by Teslas being driven by software, even though you said it's never happened. You probably think that it's OK if a few people lose there lives for the "greater good".

[sublime1996525]

When buying a new car at a traditional dealership, you have to sign many documents and nobody reads through all of them JUST LIKE A REAL ESTATE CLOSING. The FSD disclaimer is 2 sentences. Huge difference.

I read through it all. I’d assume most smart buyers do too.

[GrandSportC3]

I never used the phrase "phantom braking". You did. You are the one that started talking about phantom braking ...and then you argued against it. Holy shit. Are you even remotely capable of an honest discussion or is this strawman deflection bullshit all that you know?

There are many construction zones with barriers and cones that maintain the normal posted speed limit. You're telling me that this thing will slow down to some arbitrary speed, even in the absence of signs, regardless of there being an actual speed limit change or not.

Thank you for confirming exactly what I originally said before you tried to deflect from it with your "phantom braking" bullshit. :seasix:

I get it, so, if the lane on a multi lane road you are travelling is blocked by barriers/cones, you won't slow down to make a safe lane change to the lane that is available.. you keep going the same speed even if the other lane is full of cars and eventually either crash into the barrier or the cars in the other lane because you didn't slow down to make a safe lane change. If FSD slows down really depends on the situation. If you are in the lane that is not blocked, FSD will not slow down if the other lane is blocked but if you are travelling in the blocked lane, it will certainly slow down if necessary to get out of the blocked lane DUH!!

[GrandSportC3]

Having connectivity and having a camera actively watching you are two VERY different things. Being able to track where you've been and having a camera actively watching you are two VERY different things.

We don't have connectivity activated in either of our cars, and we have no "smart" home devices.

So, your smartphone camera is not watching you?? Are you sure? :lol:

[GrandSportC3]

SO IS YOURS! Many autopilot and self-driving accidents happen because cars should not be driven by software.

I noticed that you didn't have any reply about the innocent people who have been killed by Teslas being driven by software, even though you said it's never happened. You probably think that it's OK if a few people lose there lives for the "greater good".

Self driving is the future. The more data the system gathers, the better it will operate. You can't gather data by not using it in real world conditions. Having people gather data is the way to go. More data = better product.
I have been using FSD before when I had a loaner Model Y with FSD and it was nowhere close to the reliability that it is right now. NO, FSD is NOT ready to be fully autonomous but it is getting better at a very very good rate.. Last time I tried FSD was a year or so ago.. Since then, it has improved a lot. Drove 25 miles to the office today and it performed absolutely flawless with no close calls. Also 70 miles yesterday to a Restaurant in Celebration/FL and back. ZERO issues.. NO, It's not perfect yet but it is getting progressively better.

[GrandSportC3]

I read through it all. I’d assume most smart buyers do too.

Closings would take very very long if you would actually read all the text on all the documents. As I said, I do review the documents sent to my house prior to the closing. I do read them at home but not the set of documents presented at the closing. I trust them that the documents are the same. All that I go through with close attention is the HUD document with all the numbers. That's the one I go through. All the other ones, I just sign as there are many many pages of legal information on title documents etc. Most of it is boilerplate stuff.

[Vandelay Industries]

Closings would take very very long if you would actually read all the text on all the documents. As I said, I do review the documents sent to my house prior to the closing. I do read them at home but not the set of documents presented at the closing. I trust them that the documents are the same. All that I go through with close attention is the HUD document with all the numbers. That's the one I go through. All the other ones, I just sign as there are many many pages of legal information on title documents etc. Most of it is boilerplate stuff.

Famous last words.

[RedLS1GTO]

I get it, so, if the lane on a multi lane road you are travelling is blocked by barriers/cones, you won't slow down to make a safe lane change to the lane that is available.. you keep going the same speed even if the other lane is full of cars and eventually either crash into the barrier or the cars in the other lane because you didn't slow down to make a safe lane change. If FSD slows down really depends on the situation. If you are in the lane that is not blocked, FSD will not slow down if the other lane is blocked but if you are travelling in the blocked lane, it will certainly slow down if necessary to get out of the blocked lane DUH!!

What in the hell are you even talking about? Is it even possible for you to stop making shit up? Nobody ever said that and you know it. :rolleyes:

You said, and I quote:

As I said, the system recognizes cones, barriers etc. and will slow down for them even if there is no speed limit sign.

You didn't say "might". You didn't say "depends on the situation". You said WILL SLOW DOWN. Now you've twisted that to "make a safe lane change".

Your words. Not mine.

As usual, you're arguing against yourself. That tends to happen when you just make up stupid shit as you go.



And "Duh"? Really? Who, over the age of about 10 years old, says "Duh"? :skep: Sadly, that may actually be a step up from the rest of your arguments.

[LATB]

Self driving is the future.

Not my future.

[RedLS1GTO]

Not my future.

...

It will happen "Next Year"

-Elon Musk (2016)
It will happen "Next Year"

-Elon Musk (2017)

It will happen "Next Year"

-Elon Musk (2018)
It will happen "Next Year"

-Elon Musk (2019)
It will happen "Next Year"

-Elon Musk (2020)
It will happen "Next Year"

-Elon Musk (2021)
It will happen "Next Year"

-Elon Musk (2022)
It will happen "Next Year"

-Elon Musk (2023)
It will happen "Next Year"

But this time I really mean it!

-Elon Musk (2024)

And his idiot disciples slurp it right up every time.

[Big bob]

Not my future.

So you never used cruise control?:confused5:

[LATB]

What I mean with trusting the agent is that they didn't give me something to sign that is different than what I got in the mai. The only thing I really care in a closing is the financials or the HUD. I always check that the numbers on it are accurate... like commission and other closing cost. That's the only document that I take a closer look at.

So you are referring to recieving the documents via snail or email ahead of the closing. Then attending the closing in person a day or so later. Got it.
Of course that gives you plenty of time to review the documents.

I’ve had clients have their attorney review and even mark up the documents. That’s the ONLY way that the title agent would make changes to the documents. In that example you should review the documents signed to confirm the attorney suggested changes were made.
Otherwise there is no way that the title agent would make changes to what was sent out for review.

[LATB]

So you never used cruise control?:confused5:
Yes. My truck has the adaptive cruise control. I love it. But that only controls the acceleration and braking not the steering. So not self driving. :seasix:

[Big bob]

Yes. My truck has the adaptive cruise control. I love it. But that only controls the acceleration and braking not the steering. So not self driving. :seasix:

:iagree: But it has been around for years as one of the first steps and always improving. You knew it was not ending there.:leaving:

Have you ever watched the movie Idiocracy? You are getting it like it or not. People were saying they wanted their freedom and didn't want to be tracked and recorded. And now you are paying a monthly bill for that.:rofl:

[Steve_R]

So, your smartphone camera is not watching you?? Are you sure? :lol:

My phone is in the center console, with the lid closed, when I’m driving. It’s in a leather case with a flap over the front - including the camera - unless I’m using it. So yes, I’m quite sure it’s not watching me. I’m not tethered to electronic gadgets. I don’t need to have the latest cool phone. I don’t need to talk to a “smart” device to change TV channels or set the thermostat. Neither of our cars has a camera inside watching us.

[Big bob]

They already know what you look like and feel that north wind you blow. You post every vert and move you make like a teenage 👧 :slap:

[RedLS1GTO]

My phone is in the center console, with the lid closed, when I’m driving. It’s in a leather case with a flap over the front - including the camera - unless I’m using it. So yes, I’m quite sure it’s not watching me. I’m not tethered to electronic gadgets. I don’t need to have the latest cool phone. I don’t need to talk to a “smart” device to change TV channels or set the thermostat. Neither of our cars has a camera inside watching us.

Wait.

You don't sit in parking lots and "check your facebook feed" like the cool kids do? :rofl:

[Steve_R]

Wait.

You don't sit in parking lots and "check your facebook feed" like the cool kids do? :rofl:

LOL. Never been on FB, Twitter, TikTok, etc. This and an occasional post on CF are the extent of my social media. Weird nowadays I know.

Here’s my phone in its case. See a camera? I don’t.
.

[RedLS1GTO]

LOL. Never been on FB, Twitter, TikTok, etc. This and an occasional post on CF are the extent of my social media. Weird nowadays I know.

Here’s my phone in its case. See a camera? I don’t.
.

Pretty much sums it up.

I have very close to zero social media presence and the minimal amount that does exist is due to the kid racing.

I'd rather gouge out my eyes with a spork than sit around and watch dumbasses who record themselves doing stupid shit on youtube.

[Vandelay Industries]

LOL. Never been on FB, Twitter, TikTok, etc. This and an occasional post on CF are the extent of my social media. Weird nowadays I know.

Here’s my phone in its case. See a camera? I don’t.
.

How did you take a picture? :D

[Steve_R]

How did you take a picture? :D

PFM. :seasix:

[Vandelay Industries]

Polaroid. :seasix:

:cool1:

[Bill]

:iagree: But it has been around for years as one of the first steps and always improving. You knew it was not ending there.:leaving:

Have you ever watched the movie Idiocracy? You are getting it like it or not. People were saying they wanted their freedom and didn't want to be tracked and recorded. And now you are paying a monthly bill for that.:rofl:

FLEXjs didn't pay the monthly bill and thus GM wouldn't find his Corvette.

[Big bob]

FLEXjs didn't pay the monthly bill and thus GM wouldn't find his Corvette.


That would not have helped that was deleted as they were stealing the car. I was referring to cell phones and the idiots that post everything then cry about it.:leaving:

[GrandSportC3]

What in the hell are you even talking about? Is it even possible for you to stop making shit up? Nobody ever said that and you know it. :rolleyes:

You said, and I quote:



You didn't say "might". You didn't say "depends on the situation". You said WILL SLOW DOWN. Now you've twisted that to "make a safe lane change".

Your words. Not mine.

As usual, you're arguing against yourself. That tends to happen when you just make up stupid shit as you go.



And "Duh"? Really? Who, over the age of about 10 years old, says "Duh"? :skep: Sadly, that may actually be a step up from the rest of your arguments.

Didn't know that I have to state the obvious.. If your lane of travel is not impacted, it obviously won't slow down.

[GrandSportC3]

Not my future.

It's your choice but it is coming. AI will take over most of our lives, good or bad. We won't go back in time.

[LATB]

:iagree: But it has been around for years as one of the first steps and always improving. You knew it was not ending there.:leaving:

Have you ever watched the movie Idiocracy? You are getting it like it or not. People were saying they wanted their freedom and didn't want to be tracked and recorded. And now you are paying a monthly bill for that.:rofl:

Where am I paying a monthly bill and being tracked?

[GrandSportC3]

So you are referring to recieving the documents via snail or email ahead of the closing. Then attending the closing in person a day or so later. Got it.
Of course that gives you plenty of time to review the documents.

I’ve had clients have their attorney review and even mark up the documents. That’s the ONLY way that the title agent would make changes to the documents. In that example you should review the documents signed to confirm the attorney suggested changes were made.
Otherwise there is no way that the title agent would make changes to what was sent out for review.

I usually prefer in person closing. I get the documents for review a few days before and when I get to the closing, I trust them that they didn't change anything on the ones that I'm signing. I still look at the HUD as that's the gocument related to the money part which is my main concern.

[LATB]

I usually prefer in person closing. I get the documents for review a few days before and when I get to the closing, I trust them that they didn't change anything on the ones that I'm signing. I still look at the HUD as that's the gocument related to the money part which is my main concern.

So then your original argument that no one reads the closing documents is invalid and false. :seasix:

[GrandSportC3]

My phone is in the center console, with the lid closed, when I’m driving. It’s in a leather case with a flap over the front - including the camera - unless I’m using it. So yes, I’m quite sure it’s not watching me. I’m not tethered to electronic gadgets. I don’t need to have the latest cool phone. I don’t need to talk to a “smart” device to change TV channels or set the thermostat. Neither of our cars has a camera inside watching us.

Your phone is still listening to you and your location is being tracked, even if GPS is off.. They know where you are based on the tower you are using. Unless you don't use any cell phone, you are being tracked. Any smartphone has a microphone and will use what you say.. I posted about this many years ago on the CF, long before it became common knowledge that your cell phone listens to you even if your screen is off. About 15 - 20 years ago, I realized that I was getting ads for stuff that I talked about with someone. I never did searches on google or anything else. All I did was talking with someone about a specific thing and next day, my facebook feed had ads for what I talked about. At that time, it was just a consipracy theory but it turns out, it's all true. You are being listened to via your smartphone. Only way to avoid it is to go back to a regular cell phone, not smartphone. Even with the non smartphone, they can still track you based on the towers you are using.

[Big bob]

Where am I paying a monthly bill and being tracked?


You have a cell phone?:)

[GrandSportC3]

LOL. Never been on FB, Twitter, TikTok, etc. This and an occasional post on CF are the extent of my social media. Weird nowadays I know.

Here’s my phone in its case. See a camera? I don’t.
.

I would be a lot more concerned about the phone listening and tracking your movement rather than your phone seeing things.

[Steve_R]

Your phone is still listening to you and your location is being tracked, even if GPS is off.. They know where you are based on the tower you are using. Unless you don't use any cell phone, you are being tracked. Any smartphone has a microphone and will use what you say.. I posted about this many years ago on the CF, long before it became common knowledge that your cell phone listens to you even if your screen is off. About 15 - 20 years ago, I realized that I was getting ads for stuff that I talked about with someone. I never did searches on google or anything else. All I did was talking with someone about a specific thing and next day, my facebook feed had ads for what I talked about. At that time, it was just a consipracy theory but it turns out, it's all true. You are being listened to via your smartphone. Only way to avoid it is to go back to a regular cell phone, not smartphone. Even with the non smartphone, they can still track you based on the towers you are using.

What in the actual **** does all that have to do with this:

So, your smartphone camera is not watching you?? Are you sure? :lol:

My smartphone camera is not watching me. I’m sure.

[GrandSportC3]

So then your original argument that no one reads the closing documents is invalid and false. :seasix:

AT THE CLOSING, nobody or virtually nobody reads the entire documents like all the title stuff etc. Most TRUST their title agent that what you are signing is the same as what you reviewed at home prior to the closing. You are NOT signing the copy that was sent to you. You are signing the copy that is presented to you at the closing. While unlikely, it could be different.

[ptindall]

NHTSA found that Tesla’s driver-assist features are insufficient at keeping drivers engaged in the task of driving, which can often have fatal results."[/i]...what the investigation found after examining hundreds of similar crashes was a pattern of driver inattention, combined with the shortcomings of Tesla’s technology, resulting in hundreds of injuries and dozens of deaths.[/i]

This is the very predictable result I posted about probably eight years ago now. You cannot have a system that requires no attention 99.9% of the time but requires immediate intervention .1% of the time. Such a system is inherently dangerous because it ignores the realities of human nature.

Remember when we were told the upcomming Tesla model 3 would not even have a steering wheel? Self driving cars have proven to be a monumental failure. The investment dollars wasted on this have to be staggering at this point. "Luddites" 1, techie dorks 0.

[GrandSportC3]

What in the actual **** does all that have to do with this:



My smartphone camera is not watching me. I’m sure.

My point is that if you OWN a smartphone, you are tracked and listened to. FACT

[Steve_R]

My point is that if you OWN a smartphone, you are tracked and listened to. FACT

Your point WAS that the camera is watching me. It’s not, so you’ve changed your point.

I’m not a criminal. Tracking me would be incredibly boring.

[LATB]

AT THE CLOSING, nobody or virtually nobody reads the entire documents like all the title stuff etc. Most TRUST their title agent that what you are signing is the same as what you reviewed at home prior to the closing. You are NOT signing the copy that was sent to you. You are signing the copy that is presented to you at the closing. While unlikely, it could be different.

It is NEVER different. And most are signing what is sent to them in a remote closing or signing electronically. Both have been the norm for years, it began years before Covid.

Additionally, one of the documents that you typically sign as part of a closing is an “error and omissions” document. And that give the parties involved the opportunity to make typo or technical mistakes correct.

[GrandSportC3]

Your point WAS that the camera is watching me. It’s not, so you’ve changed your point.

I’m not a criminal. Tracking me would be incredibly boring.

I'm mostly worried about my cell phone listening to me. You don't know whom this information is shared with. Just try talking about robbing a bank in front of the phone, or anything else that may not be 100% legal. If I would talk about something like that (which I don't as I don't do anything illegal), I certainly would not have that conversation in front of any smartphone or smart speaker etc..

[GrandSportC3]

It is NEVER different. And most are signing what is sent to them in a remote closing or signing electronically. Both have been the norm for years, it began years before Covid.

Additionally, one of the documents that you typically sign as part of a closing is an “error and omissions” document. And that give the parties involved the opportunity to make typo or technical mistakes correct.

I TRUST them that it's never different, that's why I just look at the HUD and I'm all good at a closing.

[Big bob]

I'm mostly worried about my cell phone listening to me. You don't know whom this information is shared with. Just try talking about robbing a bank in front of the phone, or anything else that may not be 100% legal. If I would talk about something like that (which I don't as I don't do anything illegal), I certainly would not have that conversation in front of any smartphone or smart speaker etc..

Trying to argue with the vice president of scam is like arguing with the engineer of soup cans.


102452

[RedLS1GTO]

Didn't know that I have to state the obvious.. If your lane of travel is not impacted, it obviously won't slow down.

There is absolutely nothing obvious about any of the stupid shit you say.

This is your original comment, completely unaltered:

As I said, the system recognizes cones, barriers etc. and will slow down for them even if there is no speed limit sign.

Let's say that again. It recognizes cones, barriers, etc.... and will slow down.

How in the hell does that even remotely imply that the cones or barriers are directly in your lane of travel? If that actually was the case, and there actually are barriers (or anything else) in your lane, I would sure as hell hope that some arbitrary "slowing down" is not the action that it takes.

Your statement was very simple. It will slow down regardless of there being an actual posted speed reduction or not.

Will. Slow. Down.

Again, those are your exact words. There is nothing twisted. There is nothing taken out of context. You have since changed your answer to "will safely change lanes", which is not even remotely the same thing.

An absolutely massive number of construction zones have speed limits that change based on time of day or whether workers are present. An overwhelming majority of them, especially on highways have a reduced speed limit "when flashing" sign. The problem is that your shitbox doesn't know any better and will slow down to some arbitrary speed regardless of what it posted... kind of like it tried to blast through a f**king school zone at 3x the speed limit.

Yea, no biggie.

I'm sure they'll have it sorted out by "next year" just like they have for the last decade that Elon has been making bullshit promises that he can't keep.

[RedLS1GTO]

... as I don't do anything illegal

You mean other than that whole street racing thing that you brag about. :seasix:

[Yadkin]

Your phone is still listening to you and your location is being tracked, even if GPS is off.. They know where you are based on the tower you are using. Unless you don't use any cell phone, you are being tracked. Any smartphone has a microphone and will use what you say.. I posted about this many years ago on the CF, long before it became common knowledge that your cell phone listens to you even if your screen is off. About 15 - 20 years ago, I realized that I was getting ads for stuff that I talked about with someone. I never did searches on google or anything else. All I did was talking with someone about a specific thing and next day, my facebook feed had ads for what I talked about. At that time, it was just a consipracy theory but it turns out, it's all true. You are being listened to via your smartphone. Only way to avoid it is to go back to a regular cell phone, not smartphone. Even with the non smartphone, they can still track you based on the towers you are using.


I believe this to be 100% correct. There have been many time when having a conversation with someone, that an ad popped up on my phone the next time that I picked it up. Ray Bradbury predicted this in 1953.

[GrandSportC3]

You mean other than that whole street racing thing that you brag about. :seasix:

I don't "TALK" about that in front of my phone.

[GrandSportC3]

I believe this to be 100% correct. There have been many time when having a conversation with someone, that an ad popped up on my phone the next time that I picked it up. Ray Bradbury predicted this in 1953.

This has actually be confirmed. According to them, this is only used for marketing.. However, I'm pretty sure that if you say things like wanting to assassinate someone, it will trigger some kind of notification to law enforcement.. Maybe if you talk about some income that you didn't claim on your taxes, coincidentally, you'll be audited by the IRS next year etc. etc.
I won't take any chances.

[Yadkin]

This has actually be confirmed. According to them, this is only used for marketing.. However, I'm pretty sure that if you say things like wanting to assassinate someone, it will trigger some kind of notification to law enforcement.. Maybe if you talk about some income that you didn't claim on your taxes, coincidentally, you'll be audited by the IRS next year etc. etc.
I won't take any chances.

I guess that I should stop telling clients that I can take cash discounts over the phone. :o

[jw38]

Self driving is the future. The more data the system gathers, the better it will operate. You can't gather data by not using it in real world conditions. Having people gather data is the way to go. More data = better product.
I have been using FSD before when I had a loaner Model Y with FSD and it was nowhere close to the reliability that it is right now. NO, FSD is NOT ready to be fully autonomous but it is getting better at a very very good rate.. Last time I tried FSD was a year or so ago.. Since then, it has improved a lot. Drove 25 miles to the office today and it performed absolutely flawless with no close calls. Also 70 miles yesterday to a Restaurant in Celebration/FL and back. ZERO issues.. NO, It's not perfect yet but it is getting progressively better.

I will NEVER own a self-driving vehicle and I dought they will be "the future" for at least the next 30 years. This is what the know-it-alls said about EVs 5 years ago, and now that people realize how truly impractical they are for the majority of vehicle owners, along with the loss of taxpayer funded subsidies, manufacturers are backing off on their commitments to EVs, and hybrids are becoming more and more popular. Also, people have become aware of the absolute lie that EVs are better for the environment than ICE vehicles, because they're not. Tesla would not have survived without all of the taxpayer subsidies they have received and continue to receive. With the exception of the incredibly poorly conceived POS Cybertruck, Tesla hasn't produced a new vehicle for years. The Tesla slurpers believe all of Musk's lies. You can tell yourself that real world testing is necessary, but it sure as **** isn't necessary at my fami,y's expense or at the expense of others trying to live their lives.

Once again, you refuse to address the FACT that Tesla and other manufacturer's self-driving vehicles have KILLED people.

Not my future.

Amen brother!

This is the very predictable result I posted about probably eight years ago now. You cannot have a system that requires no attention 99.9% of the time but requires immediate intervention .1% of the time. Such a system is inherently dangerous because it ignores the realities of human nature.

Remember when we were told the upcomming Tesla model 3 would not even have a steering wheel? Self driving cars have proven to be a monumental failure. The investment dollars wasted on this have to be staggering at this point. "Luddites" 1, techie dorks 0.

100% correct!

So you never used cruise control?:confused5:

Absolutely, but it's 100% controlled by ME

[RedLS1GTO]

I don't "TALK" about that in front of my phone.

Ahhhhh. Well as long as you don't talk about it...

I stand corrected on one of my previous statements. I do indeed like to watch 1 thing on youtube and that is videos of street racing asshats getting splattered across the pavement. :seasix:

[RedLS1GTO]

This is the very predictable result I posted about probably eight years ago now. You cannot have a system that requires no attention 99.9% of the time but requires immediate intervention .1% of the time. Such a system is inherently dangerous because it ignores the realities of human nature.

But... but... you have to touch a button saying that you'll pay attention!!!!

[ThePirate]

I paid $99.00 to use the FSD for a month. I enjoyed it very much except for a few problems. Most here simply want to argue with EV drivers about things other than FSD on EVs. I found the experience like a one-trick pony. It was fun, amazing, and scary - all at once. I wouldn't take my hands off the steering wheel for a second. BUT once you verbally tell the car where you want to go, it gets you there. Stops at red lights. Starts when the light turns green when yoiu're the first in line or when the cars in front of you start. Changes lanes when traffic in the lane you are in is going too slow.Turns on turn signal when changing, when it's getting off at an exit and does it safely.


Now saying all that I wouldn't get in the back seat and let the car drive itself. I had a couple of phantom braking occurences when the road ahead presented some unusual situattions. On one occasion when going down the road, a carwwas turning left and crossing my lane about 400 yards in front of me and my car started braking - not slamming on the brakes but slowing down when nnot expected.


The other braking problem I experienced was on a divided highway with a street coming from the right. Also there was a vegetable vendor just off my lane also about 400 yds ahead with cars around it off the road.. My car started braking, vearing left and right slightly while the FSD driving was trying to figure out what was in front of it. It was no where near what you could say was out of control - more like an old lady driver. Neither event was dangerous, just unexpected. I took control each time, and I'm sure that the car would have returned to regular speed had I not took over. No danger at all. Getting on and off the highway, making turns when it should have, speeding up and slowing down perfectly was fun.



So how can it work when there are temporary lane restrictions, lower speed limits, etc. for short term work, an accident, etc? Those aren't, and can't be, in any database.


There were a couple of lanes barricaded during my trip and the car handled everyone perfectly. Cones, Jersey barricades, etc were all handled just as I would have steered though them. It does make you nervous when it is doing the actual driving though.


It reads the signs and recognizes barriers without an issue. It just has issues with CONDITIONAL signs like the one with a flashing light.
I have taken FSD through construction zones with barriers and temporary speed limits and the car handled it just fine.


Agree.


You are living in the past. Phantom braking is long gone. It was a thing for a while after they got rid of Lidar.
Of course they shouldn't have liability if driver fails to monitor the system as required. It is a beta product. You can choose not to use it. It's completely optional. The only way to refine the system is with more real world data and the only way to get that data is with a large number of drivers using it.


Phantom braking still exists but not when you simply are driving down the road. It never slammed the brakes on but slowed down quickly. There has to be something going on that would cause you to slowdown yourself without FSD.



That's not phantom braking. That is justified braking. Phantom braking is when the car brakes for an apparent reason. A construction zone or an emergency vehicle on the side of the road is a VALID reason to slow down. Obviously, I'm not talking about cones on the SIDE of the road but in one of the travel lanes, something that happens when there is construction.


I'd call phantom braking slowing down quickly and safely.


All this being said I did not renew it for the next month. Too much of a novelty now. Plus my AH was puckered up much of the time, worried that the car would simply drive off the road, or into the car ahead of you. BUT it never did anything stupid or dangerous. AT 80 mph with a semi on my left and barricades making you merge on my right it handled well but I was ready to takeover in an instant - not relaxing.



My most obvious bitch was that the car wouldn't go faster than the speed limit until I discovered how to adjust it to do so. Once I set it up it would go as fast as the car in front of me, or if that car was going slower than I wanted, it automatically changed lanes, sped up to my set speed, and continued down the road very safely. :dance:

[RedLS1GTO]

Look at that... someone came along and gave an actual honest assessment and first hand information with positive and negative aspects as opposed to dismissing all of the negatives or twisting and deflecting them into some asinine strawman.


I guess it actually can be done.

[dvarapala]

Where am I paying a monthly bill and being tracked?

No cell phone old man? Just a land line? :skep:

[dvarapala]

Your phone is still listening to you and your location is being tracked, even if GPS is off.

And if you're using a regular Android phone or an iPhone then Google and/or Apple still track you - because the privacy settings only apply to third-party apps, not to Goole or Apple themselves.

u4rstFcPcjE

[dvarapala]

My smartphone camera is not watching me. I’m sure.

Electrical tape FTW. :lol:

[LATB]

AT THE CLOSING, nobody or virtually nobody reads the entire documents like all the title stuff etc. Most TRUST their title agent that what you are signing is the same as what you reviewed at home prior to the closing. You are NOT signing the copy that was sent to you. You are signing the copy that is presented to you at the closing. While unlikely, it could be different.

You are completely WRONG. Maybe YOU don't read the documents at the closing table, but most do. Not "nobody or virtually nobody".

Again most are done remotely either via a mailout package or through electronic signatures via DocuSign or a similar program.

If you believe that there is a possibility that what you were sent for review prior to closing is different, then you should absolutely read the documents before signing.

How many real estate closings have you been a party to? And how long ago was your last closing?

[LATB]

You have a cell phone?:)

No cell phone old man? Just a land line? :skep:

Yes I have an Iphone.

[GrandSportC3]

I paid $99.00 to use the FSD for a month. I enjoyed it very much except for a few problems. Most here simply want to argue with EV drivers about things other than FSD on EVs. I found the experience like a one-trick pony. It was fun, amazing, and scary - all at once. I wouldn't take my hands off the steering wheel for a second. BUT once you verbally tell the car where you want to go, it gets you there. Stops at red lights. Starts when the light turns green when yoiu're the first in line or when the cars in front of you start. Changes lanes when traffic in the lane you are in is going too slow.Turns on turn signal when changing, when it's getting off at an exit and does it safely.


Now saying all that I wouldn't get in the back seat and let the car drive itself. I had a couple of phantom braking occurences when the road ahead presented some unusual situattions. On one occasion when going down the road, a carwwas turning left and crossing my lane about 400 yards in front of me and my car started braking - not slamming on the brakes but slowing down when nnot expected.


The other braking problem I experienced was on a divided highway with a street coming from the right. Also there was a vegetable vendor just off my lane also about 400 yds ahead with cars around it off the road.. My car started braking, vearing left and right slightly while the FSD driving was trying to figure out what was in front of it. It was no where near what you could say was out of control - more like an old lady driver. Neither event was dangerous, just unexpected. I took control each time, and I'm sure that the car would have returned to regular speed had I not took over. No danger at all. Getting on and off the highway, making turns when it should have, speeding up and slowing down perfectly was fun.






There were a couple of lanes barricaded during my trip and the car handled everyone perfectly. Cones, Jersey barricades, etc were all handled just as I would have steered though them. It does make you nervous when it is doing the actual driving though.





Agree.





Phantom braking still exists but not when you simply are driving down the road. It never slammed the brakes on but slowed down quickly. There has to be something going on that would cause you to slowdown yourself without FSD.






I'd call phantom braking slowing down quickly and safely.


All this being said I did not renew it for the next month. Too much of a novelty now. Plus my AH was puckered up much of the time, worried that the car would simply drive off the road, or into the car ahead of you. BUT it never did anything stupid or dangerous. AT 80 mph with a semi on my left and barricades making you merge on my right it handled well but I was ready to takeover in an instant - not relaxing.



My most obvious bitch was that the car wouldn't go faster than the speed limit until I discovered how to adjust it to do so. Once I set it up it would go as fast as the car in front of me, or if that car was going slower than I wanted, it automatically changed lanes, sped up to my set speed, and continued down the road very safely. :dance:

I do find it to be cool technology. Not yet ready for prime time but getting closer. I will only pay for ut one it is outof Beta. Only time I had to take it off FSD was at the school zone. Other than that, the only issue I ran into was indecisiveness when merging. Almost took over as FSD waited a while to finally merge.

[GrandSportC3]

You are completely WRONG. Maybe YOU don't read the documents at the closing table, but most do. Not "nobody or virtually nobody".

Again most are done remotely either via a mailout package or through electronic signatures via DocuSign or a similar program.

If you believe that there is a possibility that what you were sent for review prior to closing is different, then you should absolutely read the documents before signing.

How many real estate closings have you been a party to? And how long ago was your last closing?

I've been at about 20 closings, most of them were my own but also went to the closing of purchase and sale of my parents condo. I have no reason to suspect that they would change anything in the docs. I reviewed the docs sent to me but not at the closings.
Edit.. just did the math. It was about 20 closings.

[Big bob]

Yes I have an Iphone.


Then most likely you pay a monthly bill for the services. :leaving:

[LATB]

Then most likely you pay a monthly bill for the services. :leaving:

Yes there’s a monthly bill. But I didn’t know that the girl at the Verizon store provided “services”. Ima have to look into that. :D

[LATB]

I've been at about 20 closings, most of them were my own but also went to the closing of purchase and sale of my parents condo. I have no reason to suspect that they would change anything in the docs. I reviewed the docs sent to me but not at the closings.
Edit.. just did the math. It was about 20 closings.

Pretty sure what you signed was exactly what you reviewed. So you are good to go. :cert:

20 closings is probably above average for most. :seasix:
I’ve done 20 in a year. Most years that I’ve been active I see 10-12. It has slowed and I’ll probably close under 10 this year. I’m actually ok with that, I’m plenty busy building.

[Big bob]

Yes there’s a monthly bill. But I didn’t know that the girl at the Verizon store provided “services”. Ima have to look into that. :D


So you are paying them and giving all travel information along with all your contacts with any pictures to the government along with Facebook and anyone else that wants it.

102498


YES SHE IS GIVING YOU THE FULL SERVICE

[GrandSportC3]

At this point, I drove over 600 miles already on FSD (had family visiting and I had to pick them up and drop them off at the airport).

So far, the system drivers very safe with little intervention needed BUT it's still far from perfect.

Other than the school zone limit which is a serious flaw, one complaint is that the car tries to hog the left lane.. I set the speed limit offset to 10%, so I'm going 77 mph in a 70 mph limit.. The car will always try to go into the left lane to pass cars and then does not go back to the middle lane. Based on Florida law, the left lane is to PASS and you should always move back to the center or right lane whenever you are not passing and the lane right of you is not blocked.
Another minor issue is that FSD seems way to cautious. I like to go on yellow if there is enough time to get through the intersection on yellow. However, FSD sides on the side of caution and slows down and will stop at the light even though there was enough time to complete the turn before turning red. Also, left turns take a lot longer than a human pilot would take.
System is very cautious when making turns with oncoming traffic. I sometimes lose my patience and take over as FSD takes too long to make up it's mind. Overall, from a safety perspective, FSD did fine except for the school zone issue. I personally wouldn't have the patience to wait to make a turn at a intersection without a light if there is a lot of traffic. At this state, I personally would not pay for it but considering the progress, the system is A LOT better than it was a year ago when it was the last time that I used it. It's progressing nicely. Most of my interventions were because I either lost patience or school zones but other than that, it does a pretty good job. No close calls. It recognizes pedestrians very well and drives accordingly. Still some work to be done but there is progress and the system is getting better . Drove through several construction zones without any issues.

[Vandelay Industries]

At this point, I drove over 600 miles already on FSD (had family visiting and I had to pick them up and drop them off at the airport).

So far, the system drivers very safe with little intervention needed BUT it's still far from perfect.

Other than the school zone limit which is a serious flaw, one complaint is that the car tries to hog the left lane.. I set the speed limit offset to 10%, so I'm going 77 mph in a 70 mph limit.. The car will always try to go into the left lane to pass cars and then does not go back to the middle lane. Based on Florida law, the left lane is to PASS and you should always move back to the center or right lane whenever you are not passing and the lane right of you is not blocked.
Another minor issue is that FSD seems way to cautious. I like to go on yellow if there is enough time to get through the intersection on yellow. However, FSD sides on the side of caution and slows down and will stop at the light even though there was enough time to complete the turn before turning red. Also, left turns take a lot longer than a human pilot would take.
System is very cautious when making turns with oncoming traffic. I sometimes lose my patience and take over as FSD takes too long to make up it's mind. Overall, from a safety perspective, FSD did fine except for the school zone issue. I personally wouldn't have the patience to wait to make a turn at a intersection without a light if there is a lot of traffic. At this state, I personally would not pay for it but considering the progress, the system is A LOT better than it was a year ago when it was the last time that I used it. It's progressing nicely. Most of my interventions were because I either lost patience or school zones but other than that, it does a pretty good job. No close calls. It recognizes pedestrians very well and drives accordingly. Still some work to be done but there is progress and the system is getting better . Drove through several construction zones without any issues.

Just like an actual Tesla driver. :seasix:

[Steve_R]

Here's another real world situation I wonder how FSD would handle. This is on a two lane highway where the speed limit is 45 mph. There's a walking/biking trail that crosses it. If the flashing lights are not on or there isn't anyone waiting to cross you don't have to slow down. If the lights are flashing or there are people waiting to cross, you must stop. There's also a red stop sign on the warning sign on the right, but it simply shows where to stop if it's required.

What would FSD do here?
.

[RedLS1GTO]

Just like an actual Tesla driver. :seasix:

Most of them drive exactly the speed limit in the middle lane... because if they go the speed that they would need to go in order to actually pass somebody, their range goes to negative shit.

https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/f_auto,q_auto:best/driving-range-for-the-model-s-family-chart2

This is a chart from Tesla.com for the Model S. :rofl:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/driving-range-model-s-family

The sitting and not turning thing, however, is spot on for them.

[Steve_R]

Damn, I didn't realize the range dropped that fast as speed increased. And that's with HVAC off, which most drivers don't do. I guess that's why I don't see a lot of Teslas on I-70 in Utah where the speed limit is 80 (and most traffic is going 85-90) and it can be a long way between chargers.

[GrandSportC3]

Most of them drive exactly the speed limit in the middle lane... because if they go the speed that they would need to go in order to actually pass somebody, their range goes to negative shit.

https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/f_auto,q_auto:best/driving-range-for-the-model-s-family-chart2

This is a chart from Tesla.com for the Model S. :rofl:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/driving-range-model-s-family

The sitting and not turning thing, however, is spot on for them.
They haven't made the "85" version Model S for many years. This must be a very very old post.. I believe that they discontinued the "85" pack versions of the Model S in 2016, 8 years ago..

[dvarapala]

the car tries to hog the left lane.

That's because it has been trained on actual human drivers. :yesnod:

[GrandSportC3]

Damn, I didn't realize the range dropped that fast as speed increased. And that's with HVAC off, which most drivers don't do. I guess that's why I don't see a lot of Teslas on I-70 in Utah where the speed limit is 80 (and most traffic is going 85-90) and it can be a long way between chargers.
That statistic is on the very old version of the car with the 85kwh batter pack.

[GrandSportC3]

That's because it has been trained on actual human drivers. :yesnod:

It's usually Amish ladies that hog the left lane :lol:

There are actual laws in place in Florida that do not allow you to block traffic in the left lane. If you are done passing and there is space to move back to the middle or right lane, you need to do that. They can even fine you for that. I think that this is a GOOD thing as I'm sick of people hogging the left lane going at or below the speed limit. The car should be programmed to know state laws regarding that.

[dvarapala]

There are actual laws in place in Florida that do not allow you to block traffic in the left lane.

There are such laws in every state. The problem is that, aside from the occasional YouTube video, you never see those laws being enforced; without consequences, there is no incentive for ignorant/asshole drivers to stop blocking the passing lane. And that behavior is used as training data.

That's why FSD Teslas do rolling stops at stop signs and ignore school zone speed limits and all the other "illegal" things that they were trained to do by typical human drivers.

Elon recently abandoned the "hard-coded" version of FSD and embraced the 100% machine learning approach. But he can't have it both ways - if he gets rid of the hard-coded rules, then there's no way to "override" the bad behavior unless you have an army of human beings in the loop to censor the undesirable behavior from the pool of training data. "Ain't nobody got time fo dat."

[RedLS1GTO]

They haven't made the "85" version Model S for many years. This must be a very very old post.. I believe that they discontinued the "85" pack versions of the Model S in 2016, 8 years ago..

Great. What's your point?

Deflect all you want. As speed increases, your range goes to shit. That was the case in 2016. It's still the case today.

[dvarapala]

As speed increases, your range goes to shit. That was the case in 2016. It's still the case today.

100% correct.

However, my commute is 16 miles each way; 15 miles of that 16 is on a toll road with light traffic and almost zero enforcement by the CHP. Thus, I can go as fast as I want to and from work without any range anxiety whatsoever. Which is one reason why I'm considering a "Ludicrous" Model 3 Performance as a fun little commuter car. ;)

[GTOguy]

100% correct.

However, my commute is 16 miles each way; 15 miles of that 16 is on a toll road with light traffic and almost zero enforcement by the CHP. Thus, I can go as fast as I want to and from work without any range anxiety whatsoever. Which is one reason why I'm considering a "Ludicrous" Model 3 Performance as a fun little commuter car. ;)

When will you have time for a warm meal if you're in such a rush?:confused5:

[Big bob]

100% correct.

However, my commute is 16 miles each way; 15 miles of that 16 is on a toll road with light traffic and almost zero enforcement by the CHP. Thus, I can go as fast as I want to and from work without any range anxiety whatsoever. Which is one reason why I'm considering a "Ludicrous" Model 3 Performance as a fun little commuter car. ;)


You do know they can send you a ticket based on your travel time.:slap:

[BRUIZER]

100% correct.

However, my commute is 16 miles each way; 15 miles of that 16 is on a toll road with light traffic and almost zero enforcement by the CHP. Thus, I can go as fast as I want to and from work without any range anxiety whatsoever. Which is one reason why I'm considering a "Ludicrous" Model 3 Performance as a fun little commuter car. ;)

Yeh suuuuuuuuuure you can fly down the 73/405 toll roads unobstructed from traffic nor CHP. :rofl:
I drove that for years. Also drove the new toll lanes on the 405frw recently headed to LAX (unfortunately but fortunately the last time I'll ever step foot in Los Angeles county).
You pay to utilize the road and if/when caught speeding will face a minimum $450 fine. But GLWT!

[dvarapala]

You do know they can send you a ticket based on your travel time.:slap:

Technically they could, but I've been driving triple-digits on this toll road since the '00s and never received one. I suspect the toll road authority knows that if they started ticketing people they would lose a shitload of business. ;)

[dvarapala]

Yeh suuuuuuuuuure you can fly down the 73/405 toll roads unobstructed from traffic nor CHP. :rofl:

Wrong road. I drive the 241.

My door-to-door average speeds are in the 60MPH range - including being stopped in traffic. You do the math. :D

[BRUIZER]

Wrong road. I drive the 241.

My door-to-door average speeds are in the 60MPH range - including being stopped in traffic. You do the math. :D

Doesn't matter. They patrol the 241 as well.
A simple reddit search shows how many drivers have been ticketed and were upset enough to start a public thread over many years. But good luck risking the fines, ins increases and loss of lic when you get caught hitting triple diggets.

[GrandSportC3]

Great. What's your point?

Deflect all you want. As speed increases, your range goes to shit. That was the case in 2016. It's still the case today.

This is partially correct. Aerodynamic improvement on newer model years REDUCE the range drop but of course, they can't eliminate it. It's the same with a gas car. You will get better efficiency going 60 mph than going 80 mph. The less aerodynamic a car is, the worse is the efficiency drop going faster.

[LATB]

This is partially correct. Aerodynamic improvement on newer model years REDUCE the range drop but of course, they can't eliminate it. It's the same with a gas car. You will get better efficiency going 60 mph than going 80 mph. The less aerodynamic a car is, the worse is the efficiency drop going faster.

Not the same.
One is aerodynamics and the other is acceleration.

[GrandSportC3]

I'm uploading today's commute to youtube right now.. It's a longer video, so, it'll take about an hour to upload.. Will post it here

[Steve_R]

Ignoring the last situation I posted and asked how FSD would handle it?

:waiting:

[dvarapala]

Doesn't matter. They patrol the 241 as well.
A simple reddit search shows how many drivers have been ticketed and were upset enough to start a public thread over many years.

I don't need a Reddit search to know my own driving history. :lol:

It helps that I am going "against traffic" and that the few CHP units that I do see are almost always on the other side of the road, targeting traffic going the other direction. Also the CHP's speed tolerance is around 80 MPH, so as long as I can slow down to 75 or so before I get too close I can just sail on by. :yesnod:

[RedLS1GTO]

This is partially correct. Aerodynamic improvement on newer model years REDUCE the range drop but of course, they can't eliminate it. It's the same with a gas car. You will get better efficiency going 60 mph than going 80 mph. The less aerodynamic a car is, the worse is the efficiency drop going faster.

Nope. There's nothing "partial" about it.

What I said is 100% correct.

Your complete inability to accept or admit even the most basic realities about EVs is absolutely f**king absurd.

[dvarapala]

Ignoring the last situation I posted and asked how FSD would handle it?

:waiting:

If the OP is taking requests, I would also like to see how FSD handles a bunch of other common scenarios. :waiting:

[Big bob]

Here's another real world situation I wonder how FSD would handle. This is on a two lane highway where the speed limit is 45 mph. There's a walking/biking trail that crosses it. If the flashing lights are not on or there isn't anyone waiting to cross you don't have to slow down. If the lights are flashing or there are people waiting to cross, you must stop. There's also a red stop sign on the warning sign on the right, but it simply shows where to stop if it's required.

What would FSD do here?
.


How would he be able to answer for a program? He is not part of the North Wind blowing smoke up others ass's. I believe to get your much needed nourishment you will have to nurse off FPD hind tit.


And once again since you're so slow this is nothing more than enhanced cruise control. :slap:



102740

[dvarapala]

When will you have time for a warm meal if you're in such a rush?:confused5:

I can last 15 minutes without eating. :D

[GrandSportC3]

Ignoring the last situation I posted and asked how FSD would handle it?

:waiting:

The answer is that I don't know without having a scenario like that around here.

[GrandSportC3]

Not the same.
One is aerodynamics and the other is acceleration.

What does acceleration have to do with it? His post was about EV's range dropping as you go faster. It really has nothing to do with acceleration. A more aerodynamic car will have a decreased drop in efficiency as you go faster. Of course, total surface area also comes into play. That's why SUV's have a worse range drop at high speeds than a sports car for example. Surface area is much smaller on a sports car.

[LATB]

What does acceleration have to do with it? His post was about EV's range dropping as you go faster. It really has nothing to do with acceleration. A more aerodynamic car will have a decreased drop in efficiency as you go faster. Of course, total surface area also comes into play. That's why SUV's have a worse range drop at high speeds than a sports car for example. Surface area is much smaller on a sports car.

You compared the aerodynamics of the Tesla improvements would increase range and then you referenced the difference between the range of and ice car doing 60 vs 80 mph. That difference in speed requires acceleration.

[Steve_R]

The answer is that I don't know without having a scenario like that around here.

What do you suspect would happen based on your use of it. I'm genuinely curious.

I'm not convinced any software will ever replace human reasoning to drive a car. Why? How can FSD recognize another driver, or a pedestrian, wave them through a light or intersection? What if a sign gets knocked over? What happens when there's a power outage and lights don't work? There are myriad scenarios where a human can use reason and logic to get through something safely, where software doesn't have that capability.

[RedLS1GTO]

What does acceleration have to do with it? His post was about EV's range dropping as you go faster. It really has nothing to do with acceleration. A more aerodynamic car will have a decreased drop in efficiency as you go faster. Of course, total surface area also comes into play. That's why SUV's have a worse range drop at high speeds than a sports car for example. Surface area is much smaller on a sports car.

The difference is that a loss when you have a range of 600+ and it takes you 5 minutes to fill up again is a hell of a lot less of a problem than the massive losses that EVs see at highway speeds when you already have a limited range and it takes you 10x as long to charge it.

Advertised range of yours is 326. How far can you go at 80mph? What percentage do you lose?

Want to compare that to the numbers for the way less aerodynamic Escalade? The Escalade is rated at 23mpg highway. In the real world, with tens of thousands of miles of data, I average slightly over 21 at 80mph. A loss of less than 9% over the advertised range.

I can still easily go over 600 on a tank. I can go almost 700 miles at 80 mph in my brick shaped truck.

[GrandSportC3]

What do you suspect would happen based on your use of it. I'm genuinely curious.

I'm not convinced any software will ever replace human reasoning to drive a car. Why? How can FSD recognize another driver, or a pedestrian, wave them through a light or intersection? What if a sign gets knocked over? What happens when there's a power outage and lights don't work? There are myriad scenarios where a human can use reason and logic to get through something safely, where software doesn't have that capability.

I don't want to speculate. I prefer facts over speculation. I still have FSD for another 3 to 4 weeks.. I'll try many different scenarios that I can find around here.

[GrandSportC3]

The difference is that a loss of ~20% when you have a range of 600+ and it takes you 5 minutes to fill up again is a hell of a lot less of a problem than the massive losses that EVs see at highway speeds when you already have a limited range and it takes you 10x as long to charge it.

Advertised range of yours is 326. How far can you go at 80mph? Want to compare that to the numbers for the way less aerodynamic Escalade?

Before you answer, at 80mph, I can still easily go over 600 on a tank.

I can do 240 - 250 miles at 80 mph on a 98% charge with 4 people and luggage in the car. That's enough for my needs. If you NEED more range, get a gas car. It's that simple. It all depends on your travel style. We are extremely close to 10 minute recharge time with the Polestar 5 being likely the first car with that kind of recharge time to see production (with the Storedot battery). Others aren't far behind. Battery technology is improving rapidly and the technology exists to go 600 miles and recharge for 10 mins. It's not science fiction. It's a reality. The only reason why you can't buy a car with those batteries is lack of current production capacity for those batteries.
The latest batttery tech weighs 1/2 of what current batteries weight. This means that we could double the current range of EV's. Again, this is not science fiction. All it takes is time to scale production of those batteries. It will take a few years.

BTW, advertised range of mine when I got it was 333 miles. For 2024 model year, it dropped to 326.

[GTOguy]

I can last 15 minutes without eating. :D

That's taking a risk. You should stop at the halfway point (7.5 minutes) for a rest and a warm meal in order to remain sharp behind the wheel.

[RedLS1GTO]

I can do 240 - 250 miles at 80 mph on a 98% charge with 4 people and luggage in the car.

BTW, advertised range of mine when I got it was 333 miles. For 2024 model year, it dropped to 326.

Great. So a 25%-30% loss vs the < 10% of the brick shaped Escalade (with 4 people, luggage, and an entire go-kart operation in the back)

Thank you for verifying exactly what I said to begin with ... that you said was "partially true".

That's enough for my needs. If you NEED more range, get a gas car. It's that simple. It all depends on your travel style. We are extremely close to 10 minute recharge time with the Polestar 5 being likely the first car with that kind of recharge time to see production (with the Storedot battery). Others aren't far behind. Battery technology is improving rapidly and the technology exists to go 600 miles and recharge for 10 mins. It's not science fiction. It's a reality. The only reason why you can't buy a car with those batteries is lack of current production capacity for those batteries.
The latest batttery tech weighs 1/2 of what current batteries weight. This means that we could double the current range of EV's. Again, this is not science fiction. All it takes is time to scale production of those batteries. It will take a few years.

This part, where you try to justify, twist, and spin it into some hypothetical future argument is absolutely irrelevant. :seasix:

[GrandSportC3]

Great. So a 25%-30% loss vs the < 10% of the brick shaped Escalade (with 4 people, luggage, and an entire go-kart operation in the back)

Thank you for verifying exactly what I said to begin with ... that you said was "partially true".



This part, where you try to justify, twist, and spin it into some hypothetical future argument is absolutely irrelevant. :seasix:

Gas cars are extremely inefficient. Sure, their inefficiency is not as effected by speed than efficient EVs. EVs has such amazing efficiency because of regeneration which won't help at constant highway speeds. If you look into acutal energy used to move similar sized EVs vs. gas, EVs are much more energy efficient at any speed.
Again, if the range isn't sufficient for your traveling style, nobody forces you to get an EV.

[GrandSportC3]

My morning commute on FSD this morning..
At just after 16 minutes into the drive, I went on Vettebarn :D

https://youtu.be/5Xc8mOg75Hg?si=Nd22EDOuEOf9TEoJ

[RedLS1GTO]

Gas cars are extremely inefficient. Sure, their inefficiency is not as effected by speed than efficient EVs. EVs has such amazing efficiency because of regeneration which won't help at constant highway speeds. If you look into acutal energy used to move similar sized EVs vs. gas, EVs are much more energy efficient at any speed.
Again, if the range isn't sufficient for your traveling style, nobody forces you to get an EV.

Keep twisting.

Your EV range goes to shit on the highway. That's a simple fact. ICE cars don't lose nearly as much. Keep telling yourself how efficient you are if it makes you feel better.

Any of the 3 vehicles in my garage can go 500+ on a single tank. Good job using all of that efficiency to get to almost half of that. :seasix:

[dvarapala]

At this point, I drove over 600 miles already on FSD (had family visiting and I had to pick them up and drop them off at the airport).

The closest airport is 300 miles away? :shrug:

[GrandSportC3]

Keep twisting.

Your EV range goes to shit on the highway. That's a simple fact. ICE cars don't lose nearly as much. Keep telling yourself how efficient you are if it makes you feel better.

Any of the 3 vehicles in my garage can go 500+ on a single tank. Good job using all of that efficiency to get to almost half of that. :seasix:

Why would I give a flying fk if a car can go 500 miles on a tank if my bladder can't go that long and my stomach can't go without food for a long time either.
The longest trip leg I ever did was like 360 miles with a gas car and even with gas cars, my normal distance driven on a trip leg was about 250 - 270 miles, so, the 240 miles I can go at highway speeds are not far from what I used to do anyways.

[GrandSportC3]

The closest airport is 300 miles away? :shrug:

I didn't do the 600 miles in one trip.. Actually, family members arrived at Sanford Airport which is 81 miles from my home. There are direct flights from McAllen to Sanford while you have to change planes in Houston if you fly into Orlando. Orlando Airport is closer but Sanford is more convent coming from McAllen. We picked up my wife's sister and mom and dropped them off when they left. So, 162 miles x 2, 324 miles total. We also went to the beach while they were here which added another 110 miles. Of course, we also went out to different places, adding up to over 600 miles.

[LATB]

My morning commute on FSD this morning..
At just after 16 minutes into the drive, I went on Vettebarn :D

https://youtu.be/5Xc8mOg75Hg?si=Nd22EDOuEOf9TEoJ

Just what we need, people in self driving cars while surfing the internet. :rolleyes:

[LATB]

Why would I give a flying fk if a car can go 500 miles on a tank if my bladder can't go that long and my stomach can't go without food for a long time either.
The longest trip leg I ever did was like 360 miles with a gas car and even with gas cars, my normal distance driven on a trip leg was about 250 - 270 miles, so, the 240 miles I can go at highway speeds are not far from what I used to do anyways.

I could never travel that way.

[dvarapala]

Just what we need, people in self driving cars while surfing the internet. :rolleyes:

Better than sleeping or having sex. :D

[dvarapala]

So here's one of the scenarios I was curious about (skip ahead to 9:48):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xc8mOg75Hg&t=588s

The white Camry in the passing lane is what I call a "duckling" - a driver who ostensibly wants to go faster than you, but once he catches up to you he slows down and matches your speed. IOW he seems to "imprint" on you like a baby duckling does to its mother.

When a duckling imprints on me I will immediately adjust my speed as needed to shake him off, but FSD does nothing and allowed the moron to just sit there keeping station off the port bow. Not only does this block the passing lane, but if the Camry should blow a tire of have to swerve to avoid an obstacle your Tesla is toast.

[GrandSportC3]

I could never travel that way.

Don't forget that we travel with kids..

[RedLS1GTO]

The longest trip leg I ever did was like 360 miles ... so, the 240 miles I can go at highway speeds are not far from what I used to do anyways.

Yea, only a 33% reduction. No biggie. :rofl:

[RedLS1GTO]

Don't forget that we travel with kids..

Yes, so do I.

Shockingly enough, they do just fine without stopping for an hour every 250 miles to recover from all of that hard work sitting in the back seat.

[GrandSportC3]

Yes, so do I.

Shockingly enough, they do just fine without stopping for an hour every 250 miles to recover from all of that hard work sitting in the back seat.

it's usually about being hungry, not wanting a break.
Also, the chance of someone needing to use the bathroom with 4 people in the car is higher. I'm not going to refuse drinks to them so we can go longer without a bathroom break. We always have a cooler full of drinks with us on road trips.

[RedLS1GTO]

no, I didn't risk anything. The trial is called "SUPERVISED" trial and you need to keep your eyes on the road.

...

It is BETA software and needs supervision. Tesla communicates that CLEARLY to users. You have to tap on AGREE that this is supposed to be supervised and you have to intervene if the system makes mistakes.

No, I paid attention

Again, the system is supposed to be monitored.

This is a supervised system.


It is a beta product.

The FSD disclaimer is 2 sentences.

Those are beta systems with drivers required to pay attention. Yes, accidents can happen if the driver doesn't pay attention.

Many autopilot accidents happen because of ignorant drivers.

...


At just after 16 minutes into the drive, I went on Vettebarn :D


Looks like that disclaimer is working well...

[RedLS1GTO]

it's usually about being hungry, not wanting a break.
Also, the chance of someone needing to use the bathroom with 4 people in the car is higher. I'm not going to refuse drinks to them so we can go longer without a bathroom break. We always have a cooler full of drinks with us on road trips.

A bathroom stop with kids takes about 5 minutes.

Refuse drinks? Really? That's the argument you're going with? Nobody is "refusing drinks" to kids to go longer between stops, you f**king clown. :rofl:

[roadpilot]

If this is a one time pitch for Telsa,so be it.
It is not.
You guys/gals on this forum are helping to promote Telsa and the OP.
I am sure Telsa knows of this discussion thru the OP.
The only one benefiting from this discussion is the OP.
WaKE UP VBF. Enough Telsa, please.

[GixxerBill RIP]

The answer is that I don't know without having a scenario like that around here.

At least Elon has finally ceded that Lidar is necessary for FSD

[RedLS1GTO]

The only one benefiting from this discussion is the OP.

How exactly is he benefitting from it?

He's doing the exact opposite of promotion for Tesla. If they are aware of it, I would certainly hope they would tell him to stop. :rofl:

[GrandSportC3]

...





Looks like that disclaimer is working well...

There is quite a difference between driving on city streets and driving on the highway. There is little that can go wrong on the highway and that's where I surf the web. Always pay attention around town on FSD.

[GrandSportC3]

A bathroom stop with kids takes about 5 minutes.

Refuse drinks? Really? That's the argument you're going with? Nobody is "refusing drinks" to kids to go longer between stops, you f**king clown. :rofl:

So, there is always a bathroom right beside the highway. It's not possible that you have to go 1 or 2 lights to get to one. We like to combine food and bathroom stops whenever possible. Works out great for our travel style.. You travel the way you like to travel and we travel the way we like to travel and we have always travelled that way. We always had longer stops for food on long trips.

[GrandSportC3]

If this is a one time pitch for Telsa,so be it.
It is not.
You guys/gals on this forum are helping to promote Telsa and the OP.
I am sure Telsa knows of this discussion thru the OP.
The only one benefiting from this discussion is the OP.
WaKE UP VBF. Enough Telsa, please.

OK, Mr. Cancel Culture.

[GrandSportC3]

How exactly is he benefitting from it?

He's doing the exact opposite of promotion for Tesla. If they are aware of it, I would certainly hope they would tell him to stop. :rofl:

I'm pointing out real issues that Tesla needs to fix. Nobody is claiming that FSD is working without issues. I had zero interventions again on the way home, so, the system is pretty good.. Not perfect but good..

[RedLS1GTO]

There is quite a difference between driving on city streets and driving on the highway. There is little that can go wrong on the highway and that's where I surf the web. Always pay attention around town on FSD.

Bull.
Shit.

You spend dozens of posts telling us that it's "not ready for prime time", it's a system that needs to be supervised, blah, blah, blah... and then come back with an argument that it's ok to sit on the f**king internet not paying attention whatsoever because there's "little that can go wrong on the highway?"

Is that really the argument you're going with?

[dvarapala]

I am sure Telsa knows of this discussion thru the OP.


Yeah, I hear Oliver and Elon are drinking buddies. :D

[dvarapala]

At least Elon has finally ceded that Lidar is necessary for FSD

He did? :shrug:

[GrandSportC3]

:iagree:Bull.
Shit.

You spend dozens of posts telling us that it's "not ready for prime time", it's a system that needs to be supervised, blah, blah, blah... and then come back with an argument that it's ok to sit on the f**king internet not paying attention whatsoever because there's "little that can go wrong on the highway?"

Is that really the argument you're going with?

There is a million things that can go wrong around town, like pedestrians, a hidden stop sign etc. etc.
There is VERY little that can go wrong on the highway. Most adaptive cruise control with LKA can likely do the same.

[GrandSportC3]

Yeah, I hear Oliver and Elon are drinking buddies. :D

We hang out all the time when I'm down in South Texas :D

[jw38]

I don't want to speculate. I prefer facts over speculation. I still have FSD for another 3 to 4 weeks.. I'll try many different scenarios that I can find around here.
Here's a fact. The public doesn't want to be endangered by your beta self-driving weapon.

My morning commute on FSD this morning..
At just after 16 minutes into the drive, I went on Vettebarn :D

https://youtu.be/5Xc8mOg75Hg?si=Nd22EDOuEOf9TEoJ

Which proves 2 things:
1. You're not maintaining control of the vehicle
2. You're a ****ing arrogant moron for doing so

Don't forget that we travel with kids..

See #1 & 2 above. You're actually willing to endanger your children with beta self-driving software.

[GrandSportC3]

So here's one of the scenarios I was curious about (skip ahead to 9:48):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xc8mOg75Hg&t=588s

The white Camry in the passing lane is what I call a "duckling" - a driver who ostensibly wants to go faster than you, but once he catches up to you he slows down and matches your speed. IOW he seems to "imprint" on you like a baby duckling does to its mother.

When a duckling imprints on me I will immediately adjust my speed as needed to shake him off, but FSD does nothing and allowed the moron to just sit there keeping station off the port bow. Not only does this block the passing lane, but if the Camry should blow a tire of have to swerve to avoid an obstacle your Tesla is toast.

I actually increased my speed right there from72 to 75.. This was a 60 mph zone but flow of traffic was 75, so I went 75.

[RedLS1GTO]

So, there is always a bathroom right beside the highway. It's not possible that you have to go 1 or 2 lights to get to one. We like to combine food and bathroom stops whenever possible. Works out great for our travel style.. You travel the way you like to travel and we travel the way we like to travel and we have always travelled that way. We always had longer stops for food on long trips.

Great. I don't care how you travel.

The problem is you keep saying stupid shit like "refusing drinks" to kids to go longer between stops, making claims that include things like "normal people", and claiming that your way of sitting in fast food restaurants every 3 hours somehow represents that "normal"... which it absolutely does not.

NORMAL people can go more than 3 hours between f**king fast food meals. NORMAL people don't claim to enjoy sitting in McDonalds while their kids play on their phones. NORMAL people don't need to stop for an hour every 2 hours to take a piss.

Travel however you want. Again, I don't care, but stop trying to spin your f**ked up travel habits to somehow minimize and dismiss the fact that your "six figure" car can't come even remotely close to doing what any ICE car on the planet has been able to do for decades.

[dvarapala]

I actually increased my speed right there from72 to 75.. This was a 60 mph zone but flow of traffic was 75, so I went 75.

Still FSD did nothing to get away from the other car. When I was in Driver's Ed they taught us to maintain a space cushion around our cars while driving. Clearly none of the drivers whose data trained FSD ever took Driver's Ed. :D

[GrandSportC3]

Here's a fact. The public doesn't want to be endangered by your beta self-driving weapon.



Which proves 2 things:
1. You're not maintaining control of the vehicle
2. You're a ****ing arrogant moron for doing so



See #1 & 2 above. You're actually willing to endanger your children with beta self-driving software.
I don't give a **** what you think.

[GrandSportC3]

Great. I don't care how you travel.

The problem is you keep saying stupid shit like "refusing drinks" to kids to go longer between stops, making claims that include things like "normal people", and claiming that your way of sitting in fast food restaurants every 3 hours somehow represents that "normal"... which it absolutely does not.

NORMAL people can go more than 3 hours between f**king fast food meals. NORMAL people don't claim to enjoy sitting in McDonalds while their kids play on their phones. NORMAL people don't need to stop for an hour every 2 hours to take a piss.

Travel however you want. Again, I don't care, but stop trying to spin your f**ked up travel habits to somehow minimize and dismiss the fact that your "six figure" car can't come even remotely close to doing what any ICE car on the planet has been able to do for decades.
Again, I have outlined a million times that I have done the same exact 1350 mile road trip (each way) at least 15 times and 13 of those times with ICE and we always arrived around the same time at our destination. You can talk about your own driving habits but not the habits of others. While there are no official statistics on it, I would bet that most people who drive 1000 miles or so in a day will have about 2 hours of stopped time.

[RedLS1GTO]

Which proves 2 things:
1. You're not maintaining control of the vehicle
2. You're a ****ing arrogant moron for doing so

But, it was on the highway. Not much bad can happen on the highway...

[RedLS1GTO]

You can talk about your own driving habits but not the habits of others.

You're the one that keeps claiming he is speaking for "normal" people and making stupid f**king statements like the rest of us are "refusing drinks" to our kids...

I'm not the one saying that absolutely stupid shit. You are. :seasix:

[GrandSportC3]

But, it was on the highway. Not much bad can happen on the highway...

When I got my first Tesla in May of 2021, I was very cautious with Autopilot and didn't trust it. After a few months, the trust level went up and now, I would trust it with my life as long as I travel in the middle lane (which I do when driving on autopilot)

[GrandSportC3]

You're the one that keeps claiming he is speaking for "normal" people... not me. :seasix:

If normal people just stop for bathroom and gas, all those sit down restaurants along major routes would go bankrupt. As I said before, every single time I stop at a Restaurant OF ANY KIND during breakfast, lunch or dinner time, it's usually packed, especially on busy travel weekends. If not the majority, MANY people have longer stops on long road trips.

[jw38]

I don't give a **** what you think.

Good...just don't bring your beta self-driving weapon anywhere near me or my family. You're free to endanger your family, but you're not free to endanger mine.

When I got my first Tesla in May of 2021, I was very cautious with Autopilot and didn't trust it. After a few months, the trust level went up and now, I would trust it with my life as long as I travel in the middle lane (which I do when driving on autopilot)

You can trust it all you want with you're life, but you're not free to trust it with mine or my family's.

[GrandSportC3]

You're the one that keeps claiming he is speaking for "normal" people and making stupid f**king statements like the rest of us are "refusing drinks" to our kids...

I'm not the one saying that absolutely stupid shit. You are. :seasix:

There is no way that a car with 4 people who all consume normal amounts of liquid while traveling can go 500 miles without stopping for a bathroom break.. I would find it hard to believe that 400 miles is doable.