Battery Jump Starting Safety Factors

[lrobe22]

It's well-established when using jumper cables to connect the negative cable to a ground on the frame or engine block as far away from the battery as possible in order to prevent an explosion due to sparks and battery gases. *But what about portable jump packs with on/off buttons and spark protection? *Example being the NOCO Genius Boost battery jumpers. *Are they safe to connect directly to the car battery's negative terminal? *It seems they were designed that way since the leads are so short on the GB units.

https://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/imagegen/max/ccr/1023/-/s3/digital-cougar-assets/whichcar/2019/06/11/-1/NOCO-GB70-jump-starter-pack-4x4-product-test-feature.jpg

[Unsuspicious]

Not an issue because when you're hooking up the clamps, the power from the jumper isn't live. It's not going to spark.

[lrobe22]

Yep, that's why I posed the question. Since the procedure is to connect the clamps with the jump unit off, there is no live voltage. There is additional spark protection built in as well including other safety features.

[KenHorse]

If you have to ask, maybe you should leave it to someone else to jump your car

[Vandelay Industries]

Maybe this will help.

https://youtu.be/M6KK9qGK7D8

[Unsuspicious]

Not seeing much of a question here. More like AI hacked this guy's account to post a poorly formed ad for a NOCO jump starter.

[lrobe22]

:confused5:

[lrobe22]

If you have to ask, maybe you should leave it to someone else to jump your car

very helpful. thanks for your insight

[RedLS1GTO]

When is the last time anybody here saw a battery “blow up”?

I’m going out on a limb and say it’s been a long while. Why? 99.9% of modern batteries are sealed and don’t gas out.

Short answer. Things have changed. Unless you are jumping something with a historic tag or maybe a lawn mower, it really does not matter anymore.

[6spdC6]

When is the last time anybody here saw a battery “blow up”?

I’m going out on a limb and say it’s been a long while. Why? 99.9% of modern batteries are sealed and don’t gas out.

Short answer. Things have changed. Unless you are jumping something with a historic tag or maybe a lawn mower, it really does not matter anymore.

Well in the old days you "jumped' wrong you got a spark.

Now today among other things you could fry a computer or two. Mucho money!

BTW I'm referring to any kind of jumping, I still have my made up 25' cables made with welding stinger cable.

[Steve_R]

Better answers here than you got on CFOT. :yesnod:

[KenHorse]

very helpful. thanks for your insight

Just keepin' it real:seasix:

[Bill]

I'ma wait for my boy Aerovette to chime in here, as he's the recognized expert in this field.

[lrobe22]

When is the last time anybody here saw a battery “blow up”?

I’m going out on a limb and say it’s been a long while. Why? 99.9% of modern batteries are sealed and don’t gas out.

Short answer. Things have changed. Unless you are jumping something with a historic tag or maybe a lawn mower, it really does not matter anymore.

Fair points. I've stuck to AGM's in the cars and always use a frame or engine ground whenever possible however some cars don't have a good ground within reach of the chargers with shorter leads like the one I mentioned in the OP. Reading over Noco's instructions, their procedure is to use the negative battery post. Reading over another brand like Clore's JNC they advise to not use the battery negative post - most of their models have longer leads which have plenty of reach.

I have 3 jump packs however each has had issues. Noco GB40 - used it several times with great results however recently would not sequence the modes however it was pretty simple to disassemble and do a minor repair. Noco GB150 - also used several times with great results however now the fugger won't recharge. Clore JNC345 - will not sequence to a jump starting mode. Of course they all only have a 1 year warranty. So now I'm shopping for replacements.

[Steve_R]

I have a charger, two maintainers and two sets of long cables. Haven’t used any of them in years.

[RedLS1GTO]

Well in the old days you "jumped' wrong you got a spark.

Now today among other things you could fry a computer or two. Mucho money!

BTW I'm referring to any kind of jumping, I still have my made up 25' cables made with welding stinger cable.

I'm very familiar with "the old days". I also realize that things have changed. You may also be shocked to learn that you don't have to change your oil at 3,000 miles on new cars anymore either. :willy:

I have jumped many hundreds of cars (at auctions). I have never fried a computer. Maybe I am just very lucky. :shrug:

Fair points. I've stuck to AGM's in the cars and always use a frame or engine ground whenever possible however some cars don't have a good ground within reach of the chargers with shorter leads like the one I mentioned in the OP. Reading over Noco's instructions, their procedure is to use the negative battery post. Reading over another brand like Clore's JNC they advise to not use the battery negative post - most of their models have longer leads which have plenty of reach.

I have 3 jump packs however each has had issues. Noco GB40 - used it several times with great results however recently would not sequence the modes however it was pretty simple to disassemble and do a minor repair. Noco GB150 - also used several times with great results however now the fugger won't recharge. Clore JNC345 - will not sequence to a jump starting mode. Of course they all only have a 1 year warranty. So now I'm shopping for replacements.

The small "start assist" jump packs are garbage and inevitably won't work when you need them to.

Get a JNC660 and stop worrying about it. I have a pair of them that have been used daily and have jumped hundreds of cars and bikes each. If/when you do manage to kill it, simply replace the battery and go for a few more years.

[KenHorse]

I have a charger......

I've only owned one Mopar in my life.....

[6spdC6]

I'm very familiar with "the old days". I also realize that things have changed. You may also be shocked to learn that you don't have to change your oil at 3,000 miles on new cars anymore either. :willy:

I have jumped many hundreds of cars (at auctions). I have never fried a computer. Maybe I am just very lucky. :shrug:



The small "start assist" jump packs are garbage and inevitably won't work when you need them to.

Get a JNC660 and stop worrying about it. I have a pair of them that have been used daily and have jumped hundreds of cars and bikes each. If/when you do manage to kill it, simply replace the battery and go for a few more years.

I'm far from a car start virgin myself. I have also done up in the hundreds starting best guess in 1957-58. That was in a much colder climate than today -20s were common and many vechicles did not start. FWIW the Chrysler products were the worst of the none starters made a lot of money jumping them or sometimes hooking up a chain and taking them to the garage. OBTW my first 3 cars were V8 Dodges, but mine started.

Then working under the table at my buddies garage for years. That why I have the long made by me cables so I can reach a car nosed in to a garage.

Oh as far as the 3,000 mile oil change I can remember that, in fact most cars in the owners manual said only change the filter every other time.(Rather stupid in my book) I always went 4,000 and changed the filter each time.

I have paid my dues working and playing with cars.

[Steve_R]

I've only owned one Mopar in my life.....

Same here, a Dodge diesel truck to tow my Bronco rock crawler.

[RedLS1GTO]

I have paid my dues working and playing with cars.

It's a safe bet that most people on this forum have.

And it doesn't change the fact that jumping a modern car is not nearly the "event" that it used to be. You aren't going to blow it up and you are incredibly unlikely to damage a computer even if you do something horrendously stupid since an overwhelming majority have protections in place for surge, reversed polarity, etc.

[GTOguy]

When is the last time anybody here saw a battery “blow up”?

I’m going out on a limb and say it’s been a long while. Why? 99.9% of modern batteries are sealed and don’t gas out.

Short answer. Things have changed. Unless you are jumping something with a historic tag or maybe a lawn mower, it really does not matter anymore.

21 years ago. A co-worker left our shop charger on the HIGH/HOLD setting (manual, not cycle, not shut-off) and went home for the weekend. Monday morning the whole shop was gassed out and the car was ruined. Engine compartment, fender, car next to it. Battery's aren't meant for 20+ amps for 50 hours straight.

Also, with today's gel and matt batteries, if you charge them too fast, you can get air bubbles in the gel that don't go away. So you get plates exposed and they sulfate. That's why you always charge these types at low amperage on a trickle charger. Always connect the positive first then the negative.

[KenHorse]

21 years ago. A co-worker left our shop charger on the HIGH/HOLD setting (manual, not cycle, not shut-off) and went home for the weekend. Monday morning the whole shop was gassed out and the car was ruined. Engine compartment, fender, car next to it. Battery's aren't meant for 20+ amps for 50 hours straight.

Also, with today's gel and matt batteries, if you charge them too fast, you can get air bubbles in the gel that don't go away. So you get plates exposed and they sulfate. That's why you always charge these types at low amperage on a trickle charger. Always connect the positive first then the negative.

So you're saying you've got to ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive and e-lim-i-nate the negative?

[Aerovette]

I'ma wait for my boy Aerovette to chime in here, as he's the recognized expert in this field.

Think about how magnets work. you can put N to S but not N to N. Therefore, your positive cable goes to the negative terminal so there is no opposition. Same for negative to positive. Otherwise, the electrons will repel each other and no charge takes place.

Simple.

[snide]

Think about how magnets work. you can put N to S but not N to N. Therefore, your positive cable goes to the negative terminal so there is no opposition. Same for negative to positive. Otherwise, the electrons will repel each other and no charge takes place.

Simple.

Mind blown.

[Aerovette]

Mind blown.

I know right? Simple electrical disciplines. :island14:

[Unsuspicious]

I know right? Simple electrical disciplines. :island14:

Can I charge my car with clean energy if I put magnets on the cable so it filters out the impurities?

[KenHorse]

Think about how magnets work. you can put N to S but not N to N. Therefore, your positive cable goes to the negative terminal so there is no opposition. Same for negative to positive. Otherwise, the electrons will repel each other and no charge takes place.

Simple.

Back in the day, I knew a stereo salesman who would sell customers those Monster cables for their speakers. He used to convince them by saying there's a reason one wire is copper and the other silver (well actually, it was nickel).

You see, positive electrons flow better in copper wire and negative electrons flow better in silver wire. So your speakers will sound better!

Now you know the rest of the story!

[Aerovette]

Can I charge my car with clean energy if I put magnets on the cable so it filters out the impurities?

The electrons that get pulled to the side will be the weak ones. You will definitely see performance gains based on the stronger electrons being the only ones getting through. Unfortunately range remains the same since the amount of electrons remains unchanged.

[RedLS1GTO]

21 years ago. A co-worker left our shop charger on the HIGH/HOLD setting (manual, not cycle, not shut-off) and went home for the weekend. Monday morning the whole shop was gassed out and the car was ruined. Engine compartment, fender, car next to it. Battery's aren't meant for 20+ amps for 50 hours straight.

Also, with today's gel and matt batteries, if you charge them too fast, you can get air bubbles in the gel that don't go away. So you get plates exposed and they sulfate. That's why you always charge these types at low amperage on a trickle charger. Always connect the positive first then the negative.

I know how charging works.

Charging is not jumping (which is what this thread was about). Sure, you should go in the correct order and many other best practices. I never said otherwise. My point from the start was that even doing it incorrectly is incredibly unlikely to hurt any modern car.

[Frankie the Fink]

The issue was a lot more relevant before maintenance free batteries and AGM and Lithium... Old batteries with the fill caps would vent combustible gases and a spark was bad news.

[slewfoot]

:confused5:


Ever Jump start a Huey or Cobra? :rofl:

When I was up in Alaska back in the late 70's, in the winters, batteries were usually brought inside but out in the field was different

We would have the crewchief hold the blade until I would get up around 20%, then he would run like hell and sling that blade forward to lessen the load.

Worked very well most of the time. When it didn't, just have sit around and wait for someone to bring one. :D

[GTOguy]

So you're saying you've got to ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive and e-lim-i-nate the negative?

And latch on to the affirmative, don't mess with Mister In-Between!

[lrobe22]

Ever Jump start a Huey or Cobra? :rofl:

When I was up in Alaska back in the late 70's, in the winters, batteries were usually brought inside but out in the field was different

We would have the crewchief hold the blade until I would get up around 20%, then he would run like hell and sling that blade forward to lessen the load.

Worked very well most of the time. When it didn't, just have sit around and wait for someone to bring one. :D

I haven't but that sounds like quite the experience. I'm guessing you had NiCad batteries that had an immediate linear voltage drain during starts. Luckily the current equipment has APU's on everything but the unfortunately recently-phased Kiowa Warrior and probably the H72. APU's are small and don't need a big battery to start since you aren't also trying to turn rotors. The current batteries are sealed lead acid too so there's less fire risk and they hold voltage better. I did work with some Blackhawk guys that liked to screw with soldiers and had an infantry squad push their Blackhawk because they told them 'they needed a push start" like popping a clutch in a car.

I flew 407's with both NiCads and SLABs. The NiCad sucked because you had to be very miserly about your voltage. Turn the battery OFF ASAP after engine shutdown, and hustle after battery ON to engine start; only had enough juice for one start attempt so make it count. Sucks to be stranded 100 miles offshore on a single aircraft helideck with a weak battery. After they converted to SLABs, it was a major improvement. Battery Hot EP's went away too.

I bet the inertia to get the Cobra blades up to RPM was no joke. We would watch the AF Super Hueys do autos at Cairns and it was amazing how much inertia they had compared to the current Army fleet. All the time and rotor energy in the world, floating like a leaf. The Cobra was before my time but it's on my bucket list to fly; Seeing one flying towards, sex appeal. I met a pilot that flew a firefighting one in Carson City Nevada that is owned by the museum there. He said they are open to front-seat rides.

http://www.aircav.com/cobra/ahgal02/ah1s-013rs.jpg

[Onebadcad]

DO NOT call this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTZ5zkPf1BU