Trump lead in polls is increasing [Archive]

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GrandSportC3

01-25-2024, 8:35am

Realclearpolitics polling average has him almost 4% ahead of the Vegetable in the White House, consistently increasing.
That will take a lot of cheating for the Dems to win in November.

mrvette

01-25-2024, 8:43am

4% hell, that nothing, Trump won 3 years ago by about 15% but with crooked counting......

and this year they going to be even MORE aggressive in cheating.....

hoo in hell kidding hoo????

:issues:

KenHorse

01-25-2024, 8:46am

There is no way in HELL The Swamp will let Trump back in the White House.

Period

DJ_Critterus

01-25-2024, 9:11am

So, how many water lines are going to burst in ATL this time? Who will keep the dems from blocking PUB poll watchers from doing their jobs this time? Who is going to shoot the 2000 mules?

zeek

01-25-2024, 9:16am

There is no way in HELL The Swamp will let Trump back in the White House.

Period

:iagree: Hell, the left wing news wont even show his speeches and are censoring what little they do show. Also, why is there still "mail in voting"? I thought that scam was only due to the covid bullshit scam?

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 9:17am

So, how many water lines are going to burst in ATL this time?

There were none last time.

Rikki Z-06

01-25-2024, 9:19am

There were none last time.

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/fulton-election-results-delayed-after-pipe-bursts-in-room-with-ballots/4T3KPQV7PBEX3JVAIGJBNBSVJY/

Taurus

01-25-2024, 9:22am

Remember when Clinton led Trump by 7 points in October 2016? He is rising right now but Clinton led by as much as 10 points in 2016, still a lot of time for things to change.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 9:27am

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/fulton-election-results-delayed-after-pipe-bursts-in-room-with-ballots/4T3KPQV7PBEX3JVAIGJBNBSVJY/

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-indictment-fulton-suitcases-pipe-654281257169

Around 6 a.m. on Election Day — Nov. 3, 2020 — a “plumbing incident” briefly delayed the processing of Fulton County absentee ballots at State Farm Arena, the county tweeted at the time. Work resumed after two hours and no ballots or equipment was damaged. The incident was first reported as a burst pipe, but officials later said the water leak was due to a faulty urinal.

Bill

01-25-2024, 10:09am

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-indictment-fulton-suitcases-pipe-654281257169

A quick DuckDuckGo search of State Farm Arena vote counting yields a plethora of revisionist history bullshit carefully explaining why what you saw with your own two eyes, you didn't actually see:

https://www.wsbtv.com › news › politics › georgia-election-officials-show-frame-by-frame-what-really-happened-fulton-surveillance-video › T5M3PYIBYFHFFOD3CIB2ULDVDE
Georgia election officials show frame-by-frame what happened in Fulton ...
Georgia election officials takes Channel 2 frame-by-frame of Election Night surveillance video For the third time, counties across Georgia have certified votes from November's presidential...

Atlanta

Video of election workers at State Farm Arena becomes central to case against Trump - WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta Weather Alert | Hard Freeze Warning 1 / 1 Unmute WSB Now LLN Live Streams...

Videos
1:39:33
LIVE: Ballots are counted in Atlanta's State Farm Arena
16K views
YouTube3yr
3:19
Georgia election officials shows frame-by-frame of State Farm Arena Election Night video | WSB-TV
160K views
YouTube3yr
3:08
Fulton County elections director addresses State Farm Arena surveillance video
36K views
YouTube3yr
3:02
Georgia election official explains State Farm Arena video
14K views
YouTube3yr
1:28
Ballot counting in Fulton County delayed after pipe bursts at State Farm Arena
60K views
YouTube3yr
1:39:46
LIVE: Ballots are counted in Atlanta's State Farm Arena
105K views
Facebook3yr
2:39
Video shows suitcases filled with ballots pulled AFTER supervisors told poll workers to leave
270K views
YouTube3yr
3:01
Pipe burst in Georgia delays vote counting
CBS News3yr
3:40
Fact-checking claims about election in Fulton County
274K views
YouTube3yr
31:36
Republicans tender new CCTV footage to Georgia Senate Judiciary Subcommittee
1.4M views
YouTube3yr
More Videos

Are these links helpful?YesNo
https://www.ajc.com › politics › smoking-gun-video-now-evidence-against-trump › J6ORVROLMRBPZHK2DYALIZJ624
'Smoking gun' video of Georgia vote count is now evidence against Trump
By David Wickert 58 minutes ago X The "suitcases" were official ballot containers. The "double-counted" ballots were only counted once. The "smoking gun" video for voting fraud showed normal...
https://www.usatoday.com › story › news › factcheck › 2020 › 12 › 14 › fact-check-georgia-suitcase-video-missing-context › 3892640001
Fact check: Georgia 'suitcase' video is missing context - USA TODAY
Dec 14, 2020A "smoking gun" video from a Georgia polling site purports to show poll workers fabricating and counting additional ballots after Republican poll observers had left for the night. The...
https://www.youtube.com › watch?v=h-9jFuieH_U
Georgia election officials shows frame-by-frame of State Farm Arena ...
2020 United States Elections Wikipedia The 2020 United States elections were held on Tuesday, November 3, 2020. The Democratic Party's nominee, former vice president Joe Biden, defeated incumbent...
https://checkyourfact.com › 2020 › 12 › 04 › fact-check-video-show-ballots-suitcases-counted-georgia-poll-workers-leave
Explaining The Viral Video Claiming To Show Election Fraud In Fulton ...
10:19 PM 12/04/2020 Elias Atienza | Senior Reporter A video shared on Twitter by the Trump campaign appears to show workers at the State Farm Arena in Atlanta, Georgia, where absentee ballots for the 2020 election were tabulated. One worker can be seen pulling something that looks like a suitcase out from under a table.
https://amac.us › newsline › society › georgia-state-farm-arena-footage-shows-poll-workers-staying-behind-pulling-out-suitcases-with-ballots
Georgia State Farm Arena Footage Shows Poll Workers Staying ... - AMAC
A woman who identified herself as Jackie Pick, a lawyer who is assisting with their legal case, said the team received video footage from State Farm Arena's vote-tabulation center in Fulton County, Georgia. The team said that GOP poll watchers were not allowed to watch the counting process in the poll center.
https://www.factcheck.org › 2020 › 12 › video-doesnt-show-suitcases-of-illegal-ballots-in-georgia
Video Doesn't Show 'Suitcases' of Illegal Ballots in Georgia
Pick said Trump's legal team received the video the night before and that it shows observers and the press leaving a room at Atlanta's State Farm Arena, which was used to count absentee...
https://www.politifact.com › factchecks › 2020 › dec › 04 › facebook-posts › no-georgia-election-workers-didnt-kick-out-observe
No, Georgia election workers didn't kick out observers and illegally ...
11Alive on YouTube, "Fulton County elections director addresses State Farm Arena surveillance video," Dec. 4, 2020 Georgia Public Broadcasting, "Fact Checking Rudy Giuliani's Grandiose Georgia ...
https://www.usatoday.com › story › news › factcheck › 2020 › 12 › 16 › fact-check-claim-ga-vote-spike-biden-after-pipe-burst-false › 3879081001
Fact check: Claim of GA vote spike for Biden after pipe burst is false
Dec 16, 2020As of 10:15 p.m. on Election Day, Fulton County was displaying results from more than 170,000 votes, and election officials were expecting the majority of ballots cast to be counted on Nov. 3,...
https://news.yahoo.com › georgia-vote-counting-video-shows-235240082.html
Georgia Vote-Counting Video Shows Ballot Boxes Followed Proper Chain of ...
The Trump campaign showed a portion of the election night surveillance video from Atlanta's State Farm Arena during a Georgia State Senate hearing on Thursday, claiming the footage shows poll workers shooing election observers out of the arena before proceeding to scan boxes of mysterious and possibly illegal ballots.

This is Pravda level propaganda, the only difference is, half of the Russian people didn't believe Pravda, they all knew it was bullshit. Half of America really believes. I don't know how that can be fixed.

DJ_Critterus

01-25-2024, 10:22am

There were none last time.

That's bullshit and you know it.

Here's just one example:

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/fulton-election-results-delayed-after-pipe-bursts-in-room-with-ballots/4T3KPQV7PBEX3JVAIGJBNBSVJY/

LATB

01-25-2024, 10:25am

Remember when Clinton led Trump by 7 points in October 2016? He is rising right now but Clinton led by as much as 10 points in 2016, still a lot of time for things to change.

We know you are praying.

zeek

01-25-2024, 10:30am

LATB

01-25-2024, 10:33am

I hate to say it, and I really want Trump to win....But...there is no way he will. Between the demoncrats cheating so well, the left wing media, all the folks with TDS and his own party who dont want him.....he doesnt stand a chance.

Biden will hide in the basement again and it will be a replay of 2020. Sad part is, there seems to be nothing we can do about it.

Plenty that you can do about it. I suggest begin with dismissing the defeatist position. Think positive. Promote what you believe in. :cert:

Bill

01-25-2024, 10:33am

I hate to say it, and I really want Trump to win....But...there is no way he will. Between the demoncrats cheating so well, the left wing media, all the folks with TDS and his own party who dont want him.....he doesnt stand a chance.

Biden will hide in the basement again and it will be a replay of 2020. Sad part is, there seems to be nothing we can do about it.

I agree with you, but I'm used to protest voting, so this will be old hat for me, voting for a non viable candidate as my version of flipping the bird to the people who actually rule us.

Bill

01-25-2024, 10:40am

Plenty that you can do about it. I suggest begin with dismissing the defeatist position. Think positive. Promote what you believe in. :cert:

Look at all the votes for Nimrata. Many Americans WANT war with Russia. All the Ukraine flag wavers? Those people.....they're gone. No matter how bad their lives are because of the Brandonflation, they're still not interested in voting for peace (and yes, I admit Trump STARTED the inflation with the Wu flu handouts....BIG MISTAKE). They just aren't. And the irony of leftists being the pro-war party is lost on them.

They are the ones that eventually got us out of the Vietnam quagmire. It was Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink, certainly not bastions of conservative thinking, that were against the Iraq War.

But now, those same people would rather suffer economically in order to stay at war. They'd rather be conquered by the 3rd World than be called racists for desiring illegals to be kept out. How do you reach people like that?

Taurus

01-25-2024, 10:41am

We know you are praying.

Not really, remember what happened in October 2016? That was when the grab her by the p***y comment came out, that's all it takes for the numbers to sway a few points either way. Too much is going to happen in Trump world in the next six months for any poll to be correct.

That's why I pay more attention right now to state primary polls and primary results, better reflection on what's going on, especially exit polls. Interesting findings show Trump is losing ground with independents and overall support of the GOP voters. We're only talking 2 states so who knows what the trend is but it should still be alarming that he has yet to blow one of these out. Biden did far better and he wasn't on the ballot.

Bottom line is it's early and his trend may continue, no one knows.

One more comment on the exit polls, Most of Haley's supporters decided within the last week of the campaign which lines up with Trump taking credit for overturning Roe v Wade, that was not smart.

The_Dude

01-25-2024, 10:55am

Biden CAN’T BEAT Donald Trump in November, says Andrew Yang (https://www.naturalnews.com/2024-01-24-andrew-yang-biden-cant-beat-trump-november.html)

LATB

01-25-2024, 11:00am

Biden CAN’T BEAT Donald Trump in November, says Andrew Yang (https://www.naturalnews.com/2024-01-24-andrew-yang-biden-cant-beat-trump-november.html)

Unless Biden assumes room temperature he will be the puppet, err…nominee.

Bill

01-25-2024, 11:01am

https://media.scored.co/post/eoQLR7nXmYta.jpeg

Half the people in America are just fine with this. Unfixable.

LATB

01-25-2024, 11:27am

https://media.scored.co/post/eoQLR7nXmYta.jpeg

Half the people in America are just fine with this. Unfixable.

Half of the voters should be stripped of their voting privileges.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 12:16pm

That's bullshit and you know it.

Here's just one example:

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/fulton-election-results-delayed-after-pipe-bursts-in-room-with-ballots/4T3KPQV7PBEX3JVAIGJBNBSVJY/

Initial reporting was of a burst pipe. It was later clarified to be a leaking urinal.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-indictment-fulton-suitcases-pipe-654281257169

GrandSportC3

01-25-2024, 12:19pm

4% hell, that nothing, Trump won 3 years ago by about 15% but with crooked counting......

and this year they going to be even MORE aggressive in cheating.....

hoo in hell kidding hoo????

:issues:

I don't think that the cheating happened when it comes to counting. I rather think that it was mostly due to fraudulent mail in votes.

Anjdog2003

01-25-2024, 12:39pm

That's bullshit and you know it.

Here's just one example:

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/fulton-election-results-delayed-after-pipe-bursts-in-room-with-ballots/4T3KPQV7PBEX3JVAIGJBNBSVJY/

Why do you guys debate with a Democrat? You can show them facts, talk to them at a junior high level with facts, and they look at you like a cow looking at a new gate. A waste of time.

vettemed

01-25-2024, 12:48pm

Exactly. Unfixable. How do you reason with people who are fine with invasion?

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 1:03pm

No way in hell will TRUMP beat depends joe's 181M votes in NOV 2024.
depends joe is easily the highest vote getter for milleniums to come.
181M is only a tally of votes he will get in Fulton County, the rest of his votes will take decades to count.

Aerovette

01-25-2024, 1:06pm

I would not be the least bit surprised if there was an event (virus or terroristic) that will force the election to be postponed indefinitely and keep pedo in office.

Taurus

01-25-2024, 2:08pm

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 2:23pm

I just donated to Nikki, accepted Trump's challenge to be banned from MAGA camp forever. Donations flooding into Haley campaign, over $1M from small donors in 1 day. Another well thought out rant by Donald. Why does he need to alienate everyone INCLUDING those that just voted against him already?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/01/25/donald-trump-to-blacklist-nikki-haley-donors/72350543007/

Better question is why does nikki remain in the race when MOST of her vote IS NOT from conservatives AND ALMOST ALL OF HER BIG MONEY is from non-conservatives??

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/70-percent-haley-voters-hampshire-173435395.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGNDAYyfKv8KSZCNS2Gbx4nH4ad7OZw3B_fSeOM9SgvSSnGWt2YVZjcWWQ-5By8pPixs4p-i4lzUoFxqcwB-tci6zqzPEF8i8HN9a8Z5ZSmc4Kim1c5516K8J-n_Z4siqfcRbucjVwfb9IZhZ634EL0eOygujXmVl2bSMd1LSuol

Her remaining in the race is BS, she CANNOT win with republicans, she trails by TRUMP by 39 points in her home state:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-r/2024/south-carolina/

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 2:24pm

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 2:24pm

Why do you guys debate with a Democrat? You can show them facts, talk to them at a junior high level with facts, and they look at you like a cow looking at a new gate. A waste of time.

I'm not a Democrat.

Once again, you people (Trumpsters) can't seem to understand the very simple concept of a conservative not liking Trump and not thinking Trump is the best candidate for POTUS. It's rather simple but most of the Trumpsters can't understand it because they have drank the Trump cult koolaid.

With that said, I understand that short of something odd going on, Trump will be the Republican nominee. That doesn't mean we should ignore and stop discussing the challenges he is going to face based on his record and actions.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 2:25pm

I would not be the least bit surprised if there was an event (virus or terroristic) that will force the election to be postponed indefinitely and keep pedo in office.

The election won't be postponed.

Aerovette

01-25-2024, 2:27pm

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 2:32pm

What you don't understand is what you like or don't like, is soon to be inconsequential. You will be left with three options.

1. Vote for Biden
2. Vote for Trump
3. Don't vote (see number 1)

I stated that Trump will likely be the nominee so obviously those are the 3 main options (well, unless Biden gets replaced with someone else so number 1 could be Vote for the Democrat). Also, voting 3rd party is an option.

I understand all that but, again, does that mean we shouldn't talk about the negatives he is going to face due to his record and actions?

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 2:33pm

I'm not a Democrat.

Once again, you people (Trumpsters) can't seem to understand the very simple concept of a conservative not liking Trump and not thinking Trump is the best candidate for POTUS. It's rather simple but most of the Trumpsters can't understand it because they have drank the Trump cult koolaid.

With that said, I understand that short of something odd going on, Trump will be the Republican nominee. That doesn't mean we should ignore and stop discussing the challenges he is going to face based on his record and actions.

Hopefully you understand a no vote, or a vote for depends joe, is a vote AGAINST conservatives / the republican party.

The last 36 months should have taught US ALL all that the socialist party has no intent of making America better, their sole goal is to make America a one-party state, while destroying ALL oppositon.

You can argue on all TRUMP's deficiencies, of which some I would agree, BUT he supports The Constitution, the rights of all, and possesses the belief that no one party should have absolute control.

Aerovette

01-25-2024, 2:35pm

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 2:35pm

I stated that Trump will likely be the nominee so obviously those are the 3 main options (well, unless Biden gets replaced with someone else so number 1 could be Vote for the Democrat). Also, voting 3rd party is an option.

I understand all that but, again, does that mean we shouldn't talk about the negatives he is going to face due to his record and actions?

When addressing his failures, which he had, you need to account for the fact that both mcconnell and ryan were terrible rinos, and that every damn gov agency was against him, AND he made some miserable hires AND failed to clean out 100% of the white house administration--that was damn dumb, as for the first two years of his term there were weekly leaks, truthful or not.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 2:38pm

Hopefully you understand a no vote, or a vote for depends joe, is a vote AGAINST conservatives / the republican party.

The last 36 months should have taught US ALL all that the socialist party has no intent of making America better, their sole goal is to make America a one-party state, while destroying ALL oppositon.

You can argue on all TRUMP's deficiencies, of which some I would agree, BUT he supports The Constitution, the rights of all, and possesses the belief that no one party should have absolute control.

I fully understand the implications of all voting options. I know for 100% certainty I won't vote for Biden or any Democrat. That will never happen. The only question remaining is if I'll vote for Trump or 3rd party. To be determined, but I do understand the implications.

I agree with your point about the left. No question.

However, I don't fully agree with your assessment of Trump. I don't think he fully supports the Constitution or rights for all (take guns first, pushing for some amnesty, etc.). No question that he is better on all those things than the Democrats but he is not as good on those things as I would like.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 2:43pm

When addressing his failures, which he had, you need to account for the fact that both mcconnell and ryan were terrible rinos, and that every damn gov agency was against him, AND he made some miserable hires AND failed to clean out 100% of the white house administration--that was damn dumb, as for the first two years of his term there were weekly leaks, truthful or not.

Agreed...he had some challenges with other Republicans but that doesn't absolve him of any responsibility. And his decision to basically turn over the govt to Fauci (which he still maintains was right today) is a huge negative.

If he would simply admit to some of his obvious mistakes I think that would go a long way to helping him win the general election. Doing so would help him regain some of the anti-Trump folks and possibly even some independents. Problem is his ego won't allow him to do that.

Taurus

01-25-2024, 3:07pm

Better question is why does nikki remain in the race when MOST of her vote IS NOT from conservatives AND ALMOST ALL OF HER BIG MONEY is from non-conservatives??

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/70-percent-haley-voters-hampshire-173435395.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGNDAYyfKv8KSZCNS2Gbx4nH4ad7OZw3B_fSeOM9SgvSSnGWt2YVZjcWWQ-5By8pPixs4p-i4lzUoFxqcwB-tci6zqzPEF8i8HN9a8Z5ZSmc4Kim1c5516K8J-n_Z4siqfcRbucjVwfb9IZhZ634EL0eOygujXmVl2bSMd1LSuol

Her remaining in the race is BS, she CANNOT win with republicans, she trails by TRUMP by 39 points in her home state:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-r/2024/south-carolina/

Staying in the race is brilliant. No matter how many states she loses or how few votes she gets, she will be an option at the convention. If Trump is knee deep in legal troubles or appealing convictions states can pledge their votes to her if so inclined by their voters.

No way she should get out and Trump is helping her gain momentum every day. Still don't think she can win the primary but I don't think that's her end game right now.

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 3:22pm

Staying in the race is brilliant. No matter how many states she loses or how few votes she gets, she will be an option at the convention. If Trump is knee deep in legal troubles or appealing convictions states can pledge their votes to her if so inclined by their voters.

No way she should get out and Trump is helping her gain momentum every day. Still don't think she can win the primary but I don't think that's her end game right now.

Do you believe the legal issues TRUMP is facing are fair and just, or politically motivated?

She needs to leave for one reason, she is not the choice of the party, she is receiving MUCH MORE SUPPORT from non-party members, only dullards cannot see this scam.

She harms 'her party' by being complicit with those not in her party.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 3:30pm

Do you believe the legal issues TRUMP is facing are fair and just, or politically motivated?

I'll answer this....both.

No question they are politically motivated but most of them also seem like it is possible Trump could be guilty. The documents case is the strongest based on what I've read so far. The J6 case is hard to tell because I suspect there is much more evidence that hasn't been released yet. Ditto for the GA case.

Just because bringing the charges is politically motivated, that doesn't mean Trump is 100% innocent.

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 3:49pm

I'll answer this....both.

No question they are politically motivated but most of them also seem like it is possible Trump could be guilty. The documents case is the strongest based on what I've read so far. The J6 case is hard to tell because I suspect there is much more evidence that hasn't been released yet. Ditto for the GA case.

Just because bringing the charges is politically motivated, that doesn't mean Trump is 100% innocent.

How do the TRUMP charges compare to past POTUS charges??

For example, slick willie lied while under oath and abused his power, what were his consequences??

olamo had many under his control ignore laws and partake in partisan pursuits, for which records were destroyed, what was his, and their, prosecution??

depends joe has a mountain of incidents, document stealing and improper storage of documents and bank records showing GROSS UNEXPLAINED transactions, where does the prosecution now stand??

LATB

01-25-2024, 3:51pm

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 3:54pm

How do the TRUMP charges compare to past POTUS charges??

For example, slick willie lied while under oath and abused his power, what were his consequences??

olamo had many under his control ignore laws and partake in partisan pursuits, for which records were destroyed, what was his, and their, prosecution??

depends joe has a mountain of incidents, document stealing and improper storage of documents and bank records showing GROSS UNEXPLAINED transactions, where does the prosecution now stand??

Again, I agree that bringing the charges is political but that doesn't mean that he is fully innocent.

All the things you mentioned should have been investigated and charged accordingly.

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 3:54pm

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 3:55pm

That's what you're counting on, huh?

If Trump gets convicted and has to drop out, I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if DeSantis got the nomination instead.

LATB

01-25-2024, 3:56pm

If Trump gets convicted and has to drop out, I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if DeSantis got the nomination instead.

Don't hold your breath.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 3:57pm

You really need to think more about that.

Nope, I don't. It's a simple concept that many are not understanding. Both things (politically motivated and Trump being guilty) can be true at the same time. We don't yet know if Trump is guilty.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 3:57pm

Don't hold your breath.

Oh, I'm not. I realize the chances are virtually zero.

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 3:59pm

Again, I agree that bringing the charges is political but that doesn't mean that he is fully innocent.

All the things you mentioned should have been investigated and charged accordingly.

Again, BS UNPRECEDENTED CHARGES, in a banana republic courtroom led by a socialist judge and prosecutor ARE 100% POLITICAL.

Surprised a person with your aptitude would allow and agree with such, not just the outcome, but agreeing that it is okay to move forward.

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 3:59pm

Nope, I don't. It's a simple concept that many are not understanding. Both things (politically motivated and Trump being guilty) can be true at the same time. We don't yet know if Trump is guilty.

That is terrible rationale, EXTREMELY FLAWED.
Goes against OUR CONSTITUTION, allows for partisianship to be the only rule.

z06psi

01-25-2024, 4:00pm

No shit.

In other news, water is wet.

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 4:01pm

No shit.

In other news, water is wet.

We all need to laugh:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81+w7wkFYZL.jpg

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 4:02pm

Again, BS UNPRECEDENTED CHARGES, in a banana republic courtroom led by a socialist judge and prosecutor ARE 100% POLITICAL.

Surprised a person with your aptitude would allow and agree with such, not just the outcome, but agreeing that it is okay to move forward.

If irrefutable evidence was presented during the documents trial that shows Trump is guilty without any reasonable doubt, would it be fair to say he should be held accountable?

z06psi

01-25-2024, 4:29pm

If irrefutable evidence was presented during the documents trial that shows Trump is guilty without any reasonable doubt, would it be fair to say he should be held accountable?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

And if there isn't can you accept the fact that this is all election interference and the democrat party should cease to exist (To include RINOs)?

z06psi

01-25-2024, 4:31pm

Nope, I don't. It's a simple concept that many are not understanding. Both things (politically motivated and Trump being guilty) can be true at the same time. We don't yet know if Trump is guilty.

Was Trump guilty in Russiagate? Ukrainegate?

Can you not see what is being done?

Are you that blind?

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 4:34pm

Was Trump guilty in Russiagate? Ukrainegate?

Can you not see what is being done?

Are you that blind?

Sigh...I don't understand why this is so confusing to so many people.

Just because Trump wasn't guilty in some instances doesn't mean he isn't guilty in others. I'm not stating that Trump is guilty. I don't know and nobody knows for sure at this point. I'm simply stating that it is possible he is guilty and how the case was brought won't change that.

LATB

01-25-2024, 5:38pm

Sigh...I don't understand why this is so confusing to so many people.

Just because Trump wasn't guilty in some instances doesn't mean he isn't guilty in others. I'm not stating that Trump is guilty. I don't know and nobody knows for sure at this point. I'm simply stating that it is possible he is guilty and how the case was brought won't change that.

Do you think for one minute that they would be going after Trump if he wasn't running?

Aerovette

01-25-2024, 6:28pm

When someone is on record as making shit up, it puts everything they do and say in question.

If there was so much that Trump is genuinely guilty of, why would there be a need to "invent" bad behavior?

dvarapala

01-25-2024, 6:44pm

When someone is on record as making shit up, it puts everything they do and say in question.

QFT

:yesnod:

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 7:07pm

Sigh...I don't understand why this is so confusing to so many people.

Just because Trump wasn't guilty in some instances doesn't mean he isn't guilty in others. I'm not stating that Trump is guilty. I don't know and nobody knows for sure at this point. I'm simply stating that it is possible he is guilty and how the case was brought won't change that.

Do you understand our ENTIRE legal system is built on objectivity, consistency, scope and fairness,,, witch hunts ended in Salem.

LATB

01-25-2024, 7:11pm

Do you understand our ENTIRE legal system is built on objectivity, consistency, scope and fairness,,, witch hunts ended in Salem.

Witch hunts are alive and well in the democrats world.

Mick

01-25-2024, 7:20pm

I'm not a Democrat.

Once again, you people (Trumpsters) can't seem to understand the very simple concept of a conservative not liking Trump and not thinking Trump is the best candidate for POTUS. It's rather simple but most of the Trumpsters can't understand it because they have drank the Trump cult koolaid.

With that said, I understand that short of something odd going on, Trump will be the Republican nominee. That doesn't mean we should ignore and stop discussing the challenges he is going to face based on his record and actions.

Wait guys, I think I have this one: cptlo306 is upset that some folks he is painting with an EXTREMELY broad brush, are painting him with a brush a little broader than he would like. Yeah, I guess that would suck, maybe.

Taurus

01-25-2024, 7:20pm

Witch hunts are alive and well in the democrats world.

I can't speak to the first NY indictment for hush money payments or Jack Smith's election interference indictment but the others are a result of actions Trump took, they are not witch hunts.

He actively solicited GA officials for votes which started the whole thing, that's on him. His representative has admitted to lying about fraud they claimed happened but knew it did not. Not sure how that one is made up.

Same with the document case. You all keep forgetting, his charges are not based on taking documents, his charges relate to obstruction to give them back. HIS people told the DOJ he had documents. HIS people told the DOJ he still had them after he responded that he did not. HIS people hid them at his resort. That's what resulted in the search warrant and they found the documents. Again, not a witch hunt. Remember, he has admitted all of this in several interviews he did after the fact.

The others, I can't and won't say.

LATB

01-25-2024, 7:24pm

LATB

01-25-2024, 7:26pm

I can't speak to the first NY indictment for hush money payments or Jack Smith's election interference indictment but the others are a result of actions Trump took, they are not witch hunts.

He actively solicited GA officials for votes which started the whole thing, that's on him. His representative has admitted to lying about fraud they claimed happened but knew it did not. Not sure how that one is made up.

Same with the document case. You all keep forgetting, his charges are not based on taking documents, his charges relate to obstruction to give them back. HIS people told the DOJ he had documents. HIS people told the DOJ he still had them after he responded that he did not. HIS people hid them at his resort. That's what resulted in the search warrant and they found the documents. Again, not a witch hunt. Remember, he has admitted all of this in several interviews he did after the fact.

The others, I can't and won't say.

Simple question:
Do you believe that they would be going after Trump if he was not in the race?

Taurus

01-25-2024, 7:26pm

Simple question:
Do you believe that they would be going after Trump if he was not in the race?

On the two I mentioned, yes. On the other two probably not.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 7:26pm

Do you think for one minute that they would be going after Trump if he wasn't running?

Not as much, but some likely still would.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 7:28pm

When someone is on record as making shit up, it puts everything they do and say in question.

Do you agree with that statement when it comes to all the BS Trump made up about DeSantis?

LATB

01-25-2024, 7:29pm

On the two I mentioned, yes. On the other two probably not.

Not as much, but some likely still would.

Appreciate both of your answers. Thanks

Mick

01-25-2024, 7:29pm

Again, I agree that bringing the charges is political but that doesn't mean that he is fully innocent.

All the things you mentioned should have been investigated and charged accordingly.

Does it bother you that the folks in NY prosecuting him for "fraud" have already admitted that there is no victim, and that all loans that are the subject of the prosecution are either current on their payments, or the liabilities have been extinguished because the loans are paid in full?

Do you really think it is a crime to estimate future cash inflows, and then have actual cash inflows fall short of initial estimates, even though everyone involved got, and continues to get, paid in full and on time?

Do you really think it is right to change the statute of limitations on a potential crime, simply because you want to prosecute a political rival?

Serious questions all.

If you answer yes to the above, I recommend you read up on Stalinist Russia, and his right hand man Beria. You'll see these are NOT new ideas.

Taurus

01-25-2024, 7:30pm

Do you agree with that statement when it comes to all the BS Trump made up about DeSantis?

Or Ted Cruz in 2016?

LATB

01-25-2024, 7:31pm

Or Ted Cruz in 2016?

Or Kamala calling Biden a racist.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 7:31pm

Trump is the only conservative choice. I’m a Trump supporter but not in any cult and didn’t drink any koolaide.

He is the only somewhat conservative choice now. He wasn't before the primaries started.

cptlo306

01-25-2024, 7:33pm

Does it bother you that the folks in NY prosecuting him for "fraud" have already admitted that there is no victim, and that all loans that are the subject of the prosecution are either current on their payments, or the liabilities have been extinguished because the loans are paid in full?

Do you really think it is a crime to estimate future cash inflows, and then have actual cash inflows fall short of initial estimates, even though everyone involved got, and continues to get, paid in full and on time?

Do you really think it is right to change the statute of limitations on a potential crime, simply because you want to prosecute a political rival?

Serious questions all.

If you answer yes to the above, I recommend you read up on Stalinist Russia, and his right hand man Beria. You'll see these are NOT new ideas.

Funny that you only bring up one case...one of the weakest. Now do the documents case. And the Georgia case.

LATB

01-25-2024, 7:38pm

He is the only somewhat conservative choice now. He wasn't before the primaries started.

If you are a conservative he is the only choice. Yes now because the voters are making that clear.

Onebadcad

01-25-2024, 7:39pm

Funny that you only bring up one case...one of the weakest. Now do the documents case. And the Georgia case.

Regarding documents, depends joe IS MUCH MORE GUILTY, AND COMMITTED MUCH HIGHER CRIMES--HE STOLE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS!!

And as we all know, and predicted, it went away silently, kind of like all the sillary classified computer crimes, for which if TRMP did he would have been beheaded.

Taurus

01-25-2024, 7:42pm

Regarding documents, depends joe IS MUCH MORE GUILTY, AND COMMITTED MUCH HIGHER CRIMES--HE STOLE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS!!

And as we all know, and predicted, it went away silently, kind of like all the sillary classified computer crimes, for which if TRMP did he would have been beheaded.

Joe voluntarily notified the feds and returned them when found. He also allowed a complete search if his home and offices. Trump obstructed the DOJ from getting them back. Trump was not charged with taking them either.

Bill

01-25-2024, 9:09pm

Joe voluntarily notified the feds and returned them when found. He also allowed a complete search if his home and offices. Trump obstructed the DOJ from getting them back. Trump was not charged with taking them either.

Joe never had permission to remove them in the first place. Yet they magically appeared, in his garage and at the Chinese backed university Brandon gets a check from, but does no work at. And more to the point, PENCE had classified documents, too. And he, too, wasn't supposed to take them home. You know how you know Pence is dirty? Because they aren't going after Pence. They NEVER went after Pence.

It's making it easy to see who is on your team.....if the Brandon regime went after people, they're solid America First folks, people to be trusted. Those that incredibly were left alone? They were spying snakes, or they were bribed Kari Lake style, or they were coerced with the threat of, what, Harrison Deal style car bombs? Notice how Georgia Governor Kemp suddenly switched teams after his future son in law got blown up?

Trump, Bush, Obama, Clinton, Ford, Nixon, etc.....they all had a right to remove classified info. Obama is hiding all kinds of classified shit right now, claiming it will be in his presidential library that, hey, hasn't been built yet, and probably won't be built, because what better way to keep all that classified shit from being recovered.

Classified documents? It's yet ANOTHER bullshit lawfare abuse by the Brandon regime. It's banana republic shit.

Taurus

01-25-2024, 9:19pm

Joe never had permission to remove them in the first place. Yet they magically appeared, in his garage and at the Chinese backed university Brandon gets a check from, but does no work at. And more to the point, PENCE had classified documents, too. And he, too, wasn't supposed to take them home. You know how you know Pence is dirty? Because they aren't going after Pence. They NEVER went after Pence.

It's making it easy to see who is on your team.....if the Brandon regime went after people, they're solid America First folks, people to be trusted. Those that incredibly were left alone? They were spying snakes, or they were bribed Kari Lake style, or they were coerced with the threat of, what, Harrison Deal style car bombs? Notice how Georgia Governor Kemp suddenly switched teams after his future son in law got blown up?

Trump, Bush, Obama, Clinton, Ford, Nixon, etc.....they all had a right to remove classified info. Obama is hiding all kinds of classified shit right now, claiming it will be in his presidential library that, hey, hasn't been built yet, and probably won't be built, because what better way to keep all that classified shit from being recovered.

Classified documents? It's yet ANOTHER bullshit lawfare abuse by the Brandon regime. It's banana republic shit.

Neither Biden, Pence or Trump were charged with taking them, two gave them back voluntarily one did not. Had it gone down like this:

DOJ: Hello Mr. Trump, we've been told you have some documents that belong to the government and we want them back.

Trump: They're mine and I deserve to keep them.

DOJ: No they are not yours and we want them back.

Trump: OK fine.

Guess what, no indictment.

Bill

01-25-2024, 9:51pm

Neither Biden, Pence or Trump were charged with taking them, two gave them back voluntarily one did not. Had it gone down like this:

DOJ: Hello Mr. Trump, we've been told you have some documents that belong to the government and we want them back.

Trump: They're mine and I deserve to keep them.

DOJ: No they are not yours and we want them back.

Trump: OK fine.

Guess what, no indictment.

It's a 14th Amendment issue.....Trump is required to get equal treatment under the law. O6ama didn't return his classified shit, he's hiding it claiming it's in storage for the museum. If you want to charge Trump, you MUST charge O6ama first, otherwise, GTFO, it's just political bullshit. No different than a corrupt racist cop letting White drivers pass unmolested, while stopping black drivers for not signaling 100 feet before their turns. "Sorry sir, you only signaled 75' before your turn....here''s your ticket.

It's that level of chicken shit bullshit, everybody knows it, which is why half the country could give a crap less. It's haranguing a political rival....lawfare. That's it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/05/17/not-just-trump-and-biden-every-administration-since-reagan-mishandled-classified-records-national-archives-finds/?sh=2531dd8418b9

Taurus

01-25-2024, 10:54pm

It's a 14th Amendment issue.....Trump is required to get equal treatment under the law. O6ama didn't return his classified shit, he's hiding it claiming it's in storage for the museum. If you want to charge Trump, you MUST charge O6ama first, otherwise, GTFO, it's just political bullshit. No different than a corrupt racist cop letting White drivers pass unmolested, while stopping black drivers for not signaling 100 feet before their turns. "Sorry sir, you only signaled 75' before your turn....here''s your ticket.

It's that level of chicken shit bullshit, everybody knows it, which is why half the country could give a crap less. It's haranguing a political rival....lawfare. That's it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/05/17/not-just-trump-and-biden-every-administration-since-reagan-mishandled-classified-records-national-archives-finds/?sh=2531dd8418b9

Bill it's just more blah, blah, blah poor Donald.

All he had to do is admit he had them and made his case to keep them and let the courts decide. But what did he do? He lied about having them. He had his lawyers create fake paperwork stating he didn't have any and had his people hide them as well as had his security folks delete the video. Those are the actions of a dishonest man.

This is on him, no one else.

LATB

01-26-2024, 7:35am

Bill it's just more blah, blah, blah poor Donald.

All he had to do is admit he had them and made his case to keep them and let the courts decide. But what did he do? He lied about having them. He had his lawyers create fake paperwork stating he didn't have any and had his people hide them as well as had his security folks delete the video. Those are the actions of a dishonest man.

This is on him, no one else.

And no one cares. Well, except for those who hate him and will use anything possible to hurt him, his family, his business, and most importantly...his campaign.

Aerovette

01-26-2024, 10:23am

I think Jon is bucking for Rachel Maddow's job. :Jeff '79:

Onebadcad

01-26-2024, 10:44am

Joe voluntarily notified the feds and returned them when found. He also allowed a complete search if his home and offices. Trump obstructed the DOJ from getting them back. Trump was not charged with taking them either.

Please reply to the concern that depends joe STOLE documents while a congressman.

Also, we can argue about joe notifiying feds, I believe the documents were found in three or four separtate places, I do not believe he told them about ALL.
I am also 100% CERTAIN that none of the found documents were stored in a manner consistent with requirements.

You do not possess objectivity when discussing TRUMP, depends joe has committed MANY treasonous crimes that are being ignored.
One that does not get mentioned is how much did his son know, from the father, that was HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL and shared with his business partners and foreign governments.
No one hired or paid crackhead worst son for his skills or business acumen, they all wanted the same thing.

Onebadcad

01-26-2024, 11:05am

A great read for those who character possesses objectivity:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/05/17/not-just-trump-and-biden-every-administration-since-reagan-mishandled-classified-records-national-archives-finds/?sh=7303b7f718b9

Not Just Trump And Biden: Every Administration Since Reagan Mishandled Classified Records, National Archives Finds

May 17, 2023,05:03pm EDT

Every U.S. presidential administration since the 1980s has mishandled classified documents, according to testimony from a National Archives and Records Administration official released Wednesday—after the discovery of classified documents at the homes of President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump led to two federal probes.

Mark Bradley, the director of the National Arhive’s Information Security Oversight Office, told the House Intelligence Committee the office has found boxes of classified information in unclassified containers from every administration since the Reagan Administration, according to a report, which the committee voted to release Wednesday.

Since 2010, the National Archives have received calls from roughly 80 libraries that have received classified papers sent from lawmakers, including members of Congress, Bradley said.

The National Archives had reportedly requested former presidents and vice presidents review their personal records for sensitive material, after boxes of classified documents were found in Biden and Trump’s possession—though representatives and aides to former presidents George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama told CNN in January the former presidents did not keep classified records.

z06psi

01-26-2024, 11:14am

Sigh...I don't understand why this is so confusing to so many people.

Just because Trump wasn't guilty in some instances doesn't mean he isn't guilty in others. I'm not stating that Trump is guilty. I don't know and nobody knows for sure at this point. I'm simply stating that it is possible he is guilty and how the case was brought won't change that.

Sigh.......

Two statements.

1. You are looking for him to be guilty. Bias

2. Show me the man and I will show you the crime.

GTOguy

01-26-2024, 12:00pm

And no one cares. Well, except for those who hate him and will use anything possible to hurt him, his family, his business, and most importantly...his campaign.

So much shit has been thrown at Trump from Jump Street from fake Russian Collusion to the fake Jan 6 insurrection to trysts he had with gold-digging women 30 years ago when he was single to the racist, agenda-driven judge he's dealing with now that NOBODYwho is a conservative gives a shit or is even paying attention. We don't care. It's just MORE STATIC.

What we do know is that if Trump gets railroaded, WE are next. He is what is standing between socialism and us, the patriots of this country. If Trump goes to prison, it's only the beginning of a long and bloody Civil War. This is exactly how tyranny gets a foothold, and us Conservatives are not going to have it. Not in OUR country.

LATB

01-26-2024, 12:06pm

So much shit has been thrown at Trump from Jump Street from fake Russian Collusion to the fake Jan 6 insurrection to trysts he had with gold-digging women 30 years ago when he was single to the racist, agenda-driven judge he's dealing with now that NOBODYwho is a conservative gives a shit or is even paying attention. We don't care. It's just MORE STATIC.

What we do know is that if Trump gets railroaded, WE are next. He is what is standing between socialism and us, the patriots of this country. If Trump goes to prison, it's only the beginning of a long and bloody Civil War. This is exactly how tyranny gets a foothold, and us Conservatives are not going to have it. Not in OUR country.

If they literally lock Trump up I’m afraid the events to follow will make January 6 look like a “Transit Authority” song.

SurfnSun

01-26-2024, 12:38pm

The election won't be postponed.

It was March when they shut down the world and immediately mail in voting became a thing. We still have a month and a half until the next crisis hits, altering our elections for the Dems.

Mick

01-26-2024, 3:25pm

Funny that you only bring up one case...one of the weakest. Now do the documents case. And the Georgia case.

Neither are worthy of any analysis. The "documents case" has already been shown to be a nothing burger. Just political theater to continue to attempt to prosecute. The Georgia case is little more than saying the 1st Amendment no longer exists, which maybe the SC will decide it doesn't, but if it does still exist, just another nothing burger.

But I note the things I called out above don't bother you at all. I wonder if they would bother you if it was a liberal that was being persecuted this way?

Edited to add: FWIW, I think DJT is a scumbag of a person for a wide variety of reasons. Despite that, I don't want to live in the modern version of Stalinist Russia, so this all would piss me off no matter what the political position of the person is.

z06psi

01-26-2024, 3:39pm

Funny that you only bring up one case...one of the weakest. Now do the documents case. And the Georgia case.

As a long time and current TS(SCI) holder my opinion on what I understand.

Trump did nothing wrong. It's a noise case.

Atlanta case? Spotlight case for Fani. Pure and simple and if it goes to court there could be a lot of evidentiary stuff the Dems do not want out there.
It will materialize into nothing.

All of it is Kabuki theater.

z06psi

01-26-2024, 3:43pm

If they literally lock Trump up I’m afraid the events to follow will make January 6 look like a “Transit Authority” song.

My prediction.

Trump will be found guilty of a felony by a kangaroo court before the election to disqualify him.

He will win on appeal but the appeal will be after the election.

The left will win the election based on that and he will never spend a minute in jail. Because their cases are weak and have no basis but putting him in jail is not the point. Making him not run in an election is.

LATB

01-26-2024, 4:31pm

My prediction:

95458

GTOguy

01-26-2024, 6:32pm

My prediction.

Trump will be found guilty of a felony by a kangaroo court before the election to disqualify him.

He will win on appeal but the appeal will be after the election.

The left will win the election based on that and he will never spend a minute in jail. Because their cases are weak and have no basis but putting him in jail is not the point. Making him not run in an election is.

From what I understand (and it's being discussed in the local news here) there is no disqualification in being found guilty of a felony as far as being President. Trump could legally, according to the Constitution, run the country from a prison cell if elected. And you can BET we will elect him, no matter what bullshit the communists come up with.

cptlo306

01-26-2024, 6:43pm

From what I understand (and it's being discussed in the local news here) there is no disqualification in being found guilty of a felony as far as being President. Trump could legally, according to the Constitution, run the country from a prison cell if elected. And you can BET we will elect him, no matter what bullshit the communists come up with.

Polls have shown that many people, even Republicans and many Trump supporters, won't vote for him if he is convicted. He can't win in that situation.

Bill

01-26-2024, 8:00pm

Polls have shown that many people, even Republicans and many Trump supporters, won't vote for him if he is convicted. He can't win in that situation.

True, but I'll have the satisfaction of making sure that a globalist uniparty R doesn't win, either. We'll all watch the end of our country together. I think I speak for the vast majority of Trump supporters here.

Do you remember the scene in The Planet of the Apes when the underground mutant humans worshiped the bomb? They knew it was just a matter of time before they were overrun, and the A-bomb was their last play. Salt the Earth, kill everybody, apes and humans alike, vs. face a world where they're dead or wish they were dead anyway.

America as we all knew it when we were growing up no longer exists, and its circling the drain fast. Pennsylvania is trying to put an Amish farmer out of business for selling food people want to buy. That's not an anomaly. We're not going to be able to recover from this.

All Trump can do is stave off the inevitable for a few years. So whether he wins or loses, the outcome is the same.

Raazor

01-26-2024, 8:33pm

Polls have shown that many people, even Republicans and many Trump supporters, won't vote for him if he is convicted. He can't win in that situation.

:rofl::rofl:

Raazor

01-26-2024, 8:33pm

If held today, Trump wins.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc316/Raazorred/capture_qjMAKKBxwbXsy4VgoTGnuL.PNG?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc316/Raazorred/capture_qjMAKKBxwbXsy4VgoTGnuL.PNG?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)

LATB

01-26-2024, 8:43pm

cptlo306

01-26-2024, 8:59pm

:rofl::rofl:

If held today, Trump wins.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc316/Raazorred/capture_qjMAKKBxwbXsy4VgoTGnuL.PNG?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc316/Raazorred/capture_qjMAKKBxwbXsy4VgoTGnuL.PNG?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)

And that means absolutely nothing since the election isn't being held today.

Raazor

01-26-2024, 9:25pm

If he can beat the cheat.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc316/Raazorred/giphy_1__41NnA9F1wdHJUMHThB5jY2.gif?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc316/Raazorred/giphy_1__41NnA9F1wdHJUMHThB5jY2.gif?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds)

Raazor

01-26-2024, 9:27pm

And that means absolutely nothing since the election isn't being held today.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc316/Raazorred/wrong.webp?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc316/Raazorred/wrong.webp?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)

z06psi

01-28-2024, 11:28pm

Polls have shown that many people, even Republicans and many Trump supporters, won't vote for him if he is convicted. He can't win in that situation.

Are you okay with a guilty verdict and then a win on appeal but it affects the election?

cptlo306

01-28-2024, 11:36pm

Are you okay with a guilty verdict and then a win on appeal but it affects the election?

I can't answer that now as it depends on what evidence is provided during the trials.

z06psi

01-28-2024, 11:39pm

I can't answer that now as it depends on what evidence is provided during the trials.

My question is independent of the actual outcome.

Are you ok with a guilty verdict before the election and then a win on appeal?

Tikiman

01-29-2024, 7:36am

My question is independent of the actual outcome.

Are you ok with a guilty verdict before the election and then a win on appeal?

Of course he is. He's a liberal democrat and proves it with each and every post. TDS so bad, it's staining his shorts.

LATB

01-29-2024, 7:40am

TDS so bad, it's staining his shorts.

:rofl::rofl:

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 8:41am

Of course he is. He's a liberal democrat and proves it with each and every post. TDS so bad, it's staining his shorts.

Point to one of my posts that prove I'm a liberal democrat. If I do that with each and every post, it shouldn't be hard for you to find one.

LATB

01-29-2024, 8:53am

Point to one of my posts that prove I'm a liberal democrat. If I do that with each and every post, it shouldn't be hard for you to find one.

So…liberal republican?

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 9:11am

So…liberal republican?

Nope.

As I've posted countless times, not liking Trump does not automatically make one liberal or a Democrat. I'm more conservative than Trump and probably more conservative than many of the folks here. I'm just not a fan of Trump for reasons I've posted numerous times.

Simply stating that someone that doesn't like Trump is a liberal or democrat is a cheap way to get in an insult without contributing to the debate. A few people here resort to that because they are intellectually incapable of understanding the concept of a conservative not liking Trump.

zsr22

01-29-2024, 9:19am

Nope.

As I've posted countless times, not liking Trump does not automatically make one liberal or a Democrat. I'm more conservative than Trump and probably more conservative than many of the folks here. I'm just not a fan of Trump for reasons I've posted numerous times.

Simply stating that someone that doesn't like Trump is a liberal or democrat is a cheap way to get in an insult without contributing to the debate. A few people here resort to that because they are intellectually incapable of understanding the concept of a conservative not liking Trump.

As a Never Trumper, what is your nighttime ritual to get calmed down enough to fall asleep knowing your boy is supporting Trump as our next President?

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 9:21am

As a Never Trumper, what is your nighttime ritual to get calmed down enough to fall asleep knowing your boy is supporting Trump as our next President?

No nighttime ritual needed. I've accepted the fact that the majority of the Republican party has lost their minds by nominating Trump instead of DeSantis.

Tikiman

01-29-2024, 10:43am

Bottom line - you would rather see a Rino get elected because you don't like mean tweets. You really aren't fooling anybody.

KenHorse

01-29-2024, 10:47am

LATB

01-29-2024, 10:47am

Nope.

As I've posted countless times, not liking Trump does not automatically make one liberal or a Democrat. I'm more conservative than Trump and probably more conservative than many of the folks here. I'm just not a fan of Trump for reasons I've posted numerous times.

Simply stating that someone that doesn't like Trump is a liberal or democrat is a cheap way to get in an insult without contributing to the debate. A few people here resort to that because they are intellectually incapable of understanding the concept of a conservative not liking Trump.
I’m a conservative to the right of Ted Nugent and Trump supporter.
You are probably a Liberal Republican :yesnod:

Onebadcad

01-29-2024, 10:57am

The TRIFECTA of Frauds:

81 million
$148M
$83M

Pretty certain it will be a superfecta, in nys TRUMP will be told to pay $500B

And some in here will be fine with that,,,

LATB

01-29-2024, 11:01am

The TRIFECTA of Frauds:

81 million
$148M
$83M

Pretty certain it will be a superfecta, in nys TRUMP will be told to pay $500B

And some in here will be fine with that,,,

Trump ain’t paying chit.

z06psi

01-29-2024, 11:04am

My question is independent of the actual outcome.

Are you ok with a guilty verdict before the election and then a win on appeal?

:waiting:

Running away from an answer means you are more of a lefty than you think. :yesnod:

z06psi

01-29-2024, 11:05am

No nighttime ritual needed. I've accepted the fact that the majority of the Republican party has lost their minds by nominating Trump instead of DeSantis.

You can't accept the fact the actual conservatives are tired of the same ole politician two step in Washington.

Doing the same thing over and over is the definition of insanity.

z06psi

01-29-2024, 11:06am

I’m a conservative to the right of Ted Nugent and Trump supporter.
You are probably a Liberal Republican :yesnod:

Blue dog democrat. :D

LATB

01-29-2024, 11:08am

No nighttime ritual needed. I've accepted the fact that the majority of the Republican party has lost their minds by nominating Trump instead of DeSantis.

Incorrect.
It’s the folks who support Trump.

The Republican Party is made up of mostly GOPe uniparty corrupt fools.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 11:10am

Bottom line - you would rather see a Rino get elected because you don't like mean tweets. You really aren't fooling anybody.

I'd rather see DeSantis get elected and not because of mean tweets. If you consider DeSantis a RINO then you are as dumb as I expected.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 11:11am

Thoughts on Mitt Romney?

RINO

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 11:12am

You are probably a Liberal Republican :yesnod:

Negative. I've been for DeSantis since the beginning. DeSantis is far more conservative than Trump.

Onebadcad

01-29-2024, 11:13am

No nighttime ritual needed. I've accepted the fact that the majority of the Republican party has lost their minds by nominating Trump instead of DeSantis.

Definitely one of your MOST baseless statments, only posted to make you feel good about your incompetency regarding politics, and to further fuel your hatred for TRUMP.

Republican Party has backed TRUMP in 2016, 2020 and 2024 AFTER HE HAS DESTROYED ALL THOSE IN HIS WAKE.
The numbers DO NOT LIE, TRUMP is light years ahead of the rest of the competition, and proved such in the 2016 debates.

You really need to embrace objectivity and weigh the unbiased facts, such as the vote count, it will better your contributions in here.

Onebadcad

01-29-2024, 11:14am

I think many in here like Ronnie, he will have his time, just not now, it was a VERY POOR decision to run this year, 2028 was a lock for him had he waited and finished out his term as governor.
Ronnie got and took terrible advice.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 11:15am

You can't accept the fact the actual conservatives are tired of the same ole politician two step in Washington.

Doing the same thing over and over is the definition of insanity.

Breaking news: I agree with you that pretty much all politicians in DC are scum and only looking out for themselves.

Once again...I'll explain it for you too since you don't seem to be able to comprehend...not liking Trump doesn't mean one isn't conservative.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 11:20am

Definitely one of your MOST baseless statments, only posted to make you feel good about your incompetency regarding politics, and to further fuel your hatred for TRUMP.

Republican Party has backed TRUMP in 2016, 2020 and 2024 AFTER HE HAS DESTROYED ALL THOSE IN HIS WAKE.
The numbers DO NOT LIE, TRUMP is light years ahead of the rest of the competition, and proved such in the 2016 debates.

You really need to embrace objectivity and weigh the unbiased facts, such as the vote count, it will better your contributions in here.

Getting the most votes doesn't mean Trump is the best candidate. It simply means he was able to get the most votes. Most voters are dumb, uninformed, and vote on name recognition or emotion.

Do you think Biden was the best candidate for the Democrats in 2020? He got the most votes in their primary so he had to have been the best of all the Democrats, right?

You mentioned Trump's debates in 2016...funny that you didn't mention his debates against Biden (one of which he lost badly) and the fact that he was too scared to do any debates during the current primary. The 2024 Trump is not the same guy as the 2016 Trump.

KenHorse

01-29-2024, 11:21am

Negative. I've been for DeSantis since the beginning. DeSantis is far more conservative than Trump.

What policies are you referring to?

WydGlydJim

01-29-2024, 11:28am

The whole world knows exactly what the Dims are doing in Stalinesque fashion to destroy their opponent. Those that support Trump, the US Constitution, and love America are beyond pissed off about it, and 100% completely galvanized:yesnod:.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 11:31am

What policies are you referring to?

Some...

Abortion (Trump has moderated on this)
Gun rights (Trump: take guns first, bump stock ban)
Illegal immigration (Trump fought for an amnesty plan while POTUS)
Eliminating some agencies and moving some out of DC (not building a new expensive new building for the FBI)
Cutting Spending (Trump's record as POTUS was not good even before COVID)

WydGlydJim

01-29-2024, 11:40am

Some...

Abortion (Trump has moderated on this)
Gun rights (Trump: take guns first, bump stock ban)
Illegal immigration (Trump fought for an amnesty plan while POTUS)
Eliminating some agencies and moving some out of DC (not building a new expensive new building for the FBI)
Cutting Spending (Trump's record as POTUS was not good even before COVID)

Trump is smart enough to know there has to be some movement on abortion or it is a killer issue (no pun intended) I side with his policy view on this, and I am as anti abortion as you can get..........however, I also want to win at all costs.

Tikiman

01-29-2024, 11:52am

Negative. I've been for DeSantis since the beginning. DeSantis is far more conservative than Trump.

DeSantis will be just fine in 2028. But he doesn't have the balls to take on the deep state.

Tikiman

01-29-2024, 11:55am

Trump is smart enough to know there has to be some movement on abortion or it is a killer issue (no pun intended) I side with his policy view on this, and I am as anti abortion as you can get..........however, I also want to win at all costs.

The Supreme Court ****ed abortion with Roe vs Wade. Even that old broad, Ginsberg, admitted it. Should be left up to the states. There is a reason why Planned Parenthood clinics are predominantly in ghetto neighborhoods. And, frankly, I'm fine with that.

z06psi

01-29-2024, 11:59am

:waiting:

Running away from an answer means you are more of a lefty than you think. :yesnod:

:waiting:

Your hate for Trump shows in the non-answer.

Your hate for Trump includes "The ends justify the means".

Very not conservative.:yesnod:

z06psi

01-29-2024, 12:06pm

The Supreme Court ****ed abortion with Roe vs Wade. Even that old broad, Ginsberg, admitted it. Should be left up to the states. There is a reason why Planned Parenthood clinics are predominantly in ghetto neighborhoods. And, frankly, I'm fine with that.

The better question is this.

If abortion was so important, why was no law passed since 1973 to codify it by any democrat administration when they controlled two branches to include both legislative houses?

Wedge issue.

Abortion
Guns
Immigration
Term limits
Voting

All wedge issues that nothing really changes on but people will continue to argue all the while the corruption gets worse. :yesnod:

z06psi

01-29-2024, 12:09pm

Some...

Abortion (Trump has moderated on this)
Gun rights (Trump: take guns first, bump stock ban)
Illegal immigration (Trump fought for an amnesty plan while POTUS)
Eliminating some agencies and moving some out of DC (not building a new expensive new building for the FBI)
Cutting Spending (Trump's record as POTUS was not good even before COVID)

I didn't see this post.

All wedge issues. No one in Congress has any appetite to fix any of them beside 10-15 on one side or the other.

Ruling majority uni-party wants nothing to change.

Tikiman

01-29-2024, 12:36pm

Most voters are dumb, uninformed, and vote on name recognition or emotion.

Those are the people who vote democrat or Rino. Democrats vote with all the emotion of a menopausal woman.

Most smart voters have wised up to the uniparty supporting bad candidates for the Republicans. There is a very good reason why the DNC was shoveling money to Nimrata Haley. Most conservatives that I talk to are tired of the only choices being hard-core communists (democrats) and slightly to center communists (Republicans) who will obey their democrat overlords to the letter.

We want a fighter with a chip on his shoulder and an "I don't give a ****" attitude. We need someone who is willing to try to clean house - not try to live with the mess.

Onebadcad

01-29-2024, 12:38pm

Abortion is a lose-lose for pubs, they need to steer clear of the issue.
It needs to remain a non-Fed issue, BUT it also should not be funded by taxpayers.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 12:56pm

Trump is smart enough to know there has to be some movement on abortion or it is a killer issue (no pun intended) I side with his policy view on this, and I am as anti abortion as you can get..........however, I also want to win at all costs.

I somewhat agree on abortion but you ignored all the other issues that Trump has moved left on.

LATB

01-29-2024, 1:02pm

Some...

Abortion (Trump has moderated on this)
Gun rights (Trump: take guns first, bump stock ban)
Illegal immigration (Trump fought for an amnesty plan while POTUS)
Eliminating some agencies and moving some out of DC (not building a new expensive new building for the FBI)
Cutting Spending (Trump's record as POTUS was not good even before COVID)

You think Trump is weak on the border issues? :Jeff '79:

Abortion… :funniest:

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 1:02pm

DeSantis will be just fine in 2028. But he doesn't have the balls to take on the deep state.

Why do you think DeSantis doesn't have the balls to take on the deep state but Trump does?

Based on their history, I'd suggest it is exactly the opposite. Look at what Trump did to the deep state during his first term...he hired a bunch of them for key positions and did nothing to cut their power. Contrast that with how DeSantis has destroyed the Democrat party in the state of Florida (yes, I know the Democrat party in Florida isn't the same as the deep state but it does show how he handles his enemies).

I know you want to believe Trump will go all in to take out the deep state if he gets elected again. I know you think he is a bad ass that will take no prisoners. Sadly, he made some of the same arguments in 2016 and did nothing when he became POTUS. Time and time again he targets someone as his enemy and then becomes BFFs with them 5 minutes after they say something nice about him.

It's OK to be fooled by Trump. Many people have been so far. Maybe one day you and the other Trumpsters will figure it out.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 1:04pm

:waiting:

Your hate for Trump shows in the non-answer.

Your hate for Trump includes "The ends justify the means".

Very not conservative.:yesnod:

To answer your earlier question....I wouldn't like it if that happened. However, I'd make my judgement about that scenario based on the evidence that was presented.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 1:05pm

I didn't see this post.

All wedge issues. No one in Congress has any appetite to fix any of them beside 10-15 on one side or the other.

Ruling majority uni-party wants nothing to change.

Agreed that both parties suck on most of these issues. Trump does also.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 1:07pm

Abortion is a lose-lose for pubs, they need to steer clear of the issue.
It needs to remain a non-Fed issue, BUT it also should not be funded by taxpayers.

Agreed.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 1:08pm

You think Trump is weak on the border issues? :Jeff '79:

Abortion… :funniest:

Are you ignorant of Trump's attempt to get an amnesty plan passed while POTUS?

LATB

01-29-2024, 1:08pm

Why do you think DeSantis doesn't have the balls to take on the deep state but Trump does?

DeSantis is owned by his donors and the GOPe. They will tell him when to crap and how many piles.
The same donors who foolishly pushed him to run this cycle.

LATB

01-29-2024, 1:09pm

Are you ignorant of Trump's attempt to get an amnesty plan passed while POTUS?

Are you ignorant to believe that Trump is weak on the illegal immigrant issue?

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 1:12pm

DeSantis is owned by his donors and the GOPe. They will tell him when to crap and how many piles.
The same donors who foolishly pushed him to run this cycle.

Not true. If you think this is true, post up some proof.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 1:13pm

Are you ignorant to believe that Trump is weak on the illegal immigrant issue?

Trying to get amnesty for some illegals = weak. Note that I didn't say he was entirely weak on illegal immigration because he isn't but pushing amnesty is a leftist position.

z06psi

01-29-2024, 1:43pm

To answer your earlier question....I wouldn't like it if that happened. However, I'd make my judgement about that scenario based on the evidence that was presented.

You wouldn't "like that"?

JFC.

Awfully leftist of you to not be downright pissed off about blatant election interference.

Bill

01-29-2024, 1:54pm

Trying to get amnesty for some illegals = weak. Note that I didn't say he was entirely weak on illegal immigration because he isn't but pushing amnesty is a leftist position.

Trump offered up the roughly, at that time, 3/4 million 'dreamers,' in exchange for a laundry list of what we need, including an end to birthright citizenship going forward. That was a good deal for pro-America factions, so of course it never even had a chance. I think Trump knew it didn't stand a chance, either, but put it out there to show how un-serious the uniparty actually is about solving the problem.

The left was going on and on about mUh DrEaMeRs. Trump offered them a deal, they passed, because why would they cut their own throats going forward just to get under a million of their people legalized? Why would they? They wouldn't, they didn't.

Yes, I want all the illegals deported in another "Operation Wetback" type push, but I would have been happy to trade the 'dreamers' for actual immigration legislation that would put a stop to the US being flooded by illegals that couldn't even get a tourist or work visa.

WydGlydJim

01-29-2024, 1:59pm

Abortion is a lose-lose for pubs, they need to steer clear of the issue.
It needs to remain a non-Fed issue, BUT it also should not be funded by taxpayers.

I disagree....they need to be crystal clear on what their stance is...hammer the hell out of the dims for abortion on demand. Get tough, and stop being apologetic.

Tikiman

01-29-2024, 2:00pm

Not true. If you think this is true, post up some proof.

It isn't as if he has "Property of the GOPe" tattooed on his ass. Use your brains, Junior.

I'll vote for him in 2028 unless somebody better comes along, but it isn't his time this time.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 2:03pm

It isn't as if he has "Property of the GOPe" tattooed on his ass. Use your brains, Junior.

I'll vote for him in 2028 unless somebody better comes along, but it isn't his time this time.

So, no proof. Typical.

Tikiman

01-29-2024, 2:05pm

Tikiman

01-29-2024, 2:06pm

So, no proof. Typical.

Prove to me that Hillary hasn't had 60 people "suicided". See how that works?

Mick

01-29-2024, 2:14pm

Are you ignorant of Trump's attempt to get an amnesty plan passed while POTUS?

Wasn't that a "give back" on the border security issue? He was in favor of amnesty for those who are already here, IF AND ONLY IF, we get serious about border security going forward so that X years from now we don't have to hear the whining about millions of "dreamers", blah blah blah.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 2:15pm

Anyone else notice how nobody wants to admit to being a liberal, leftist democrat. Even when every post they make sounds like something a leftist would post, they're like "No, man, not me. I'm an independent." Reminds me of little dhimmi davey from the old place.

Given your prior similar post about me, I assume you are referring to me. I'm still waiting for you to point out one post that proves I'm a liberal. Good luck finding one.

LATB

01-29-2024, 3:02pm

Given your prior similar post about me, I assume you are referring to me. I'm still waiting for you to point out one post that proves I'm a liberal. Good luck finding one.

The posts you made painting Trump as weak on the border sound liberal as hell. Actually your spin on the dreamers amnesty sounds straight out of CNN.

Tikiman

01-29-2024, 3:12pm

The posts you made painting Trump as weak on the border sound liberal as hell. Actually your spin on the dreamers amnesty sounds straight out of CNN.

And his infatuation with Rinos. Any time I hear someone trying to push the narrative that we need to support somebody weaker than Trump, my radar goes off. That's how we ended up in this mess.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 3:15pm

And his infatuation with Rinos. Any time I hear someone trying to push the narrative that we need to support somebody weaker than Trump, my radar goes off. That's how we ended up in this mess.

What infatuation with RINOs? You are just making up shit now.

Who have I said we should support that is weaker than Trump? Are you talking about DeSantis? He's not weaker than Trump. I've already posted facts that show he is a stronger conservative than Trump. I also believe he is much smarter and emotionally stronger than Trump.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 3:18pm

The posts you made painting Trump as weak on the border sound liberal as hell. Actually your spin on the dreamers amnesty sounds straight out of CNN.

Did Trump try to get an amnesty bill passed while he was POTUS? Yes, he did. As I said earlier, I'm not saying he was/is totally weak on the border because he isn't but he did try to get an amnesty bill for some illegals. I'm not OK with any amnesty at all.

LATB

01-29-2024, 5:34pm

What infatuation with RINOs? You are just making up shit now.

Who have I said we should support that is weaker than Trump? Are you talking about DeSantis? He's not weaker than Trump. I've already posted facts that show he is a stronger conservative than Trump. I also believe he is much smarter and emotionally stronger than Trump.

What you believe concerning Trump means bupkis.

You are hung up on who's the most conservative...bla bla bla. Means zip if he's not a fighter.
DeSantis may make a good president one day. But not this day. And there is no way for you to qualify that he is smarter or emotionally stronger than Trump, those are just your feelings.

LATB

01-29-2024, 5:35pm

Aerovette

01-29-2024, 6:14pm

The posts you made painting Trump as weak on the border sound liberal as hell. Actually your spin on the dreamers amnesty sounds straight out of CNN.

Let's not forget

Didn't build the wall
Didn't get Mexico to pay for it
Had 4 years to do something and didn't
Stole classified documents

All that's missing is an autographed head shot of Rachel Maddow. :Jeff '79:

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 7:18pm

Let's not forget

Didn't build the wall
Didn't get Mexico to pay for it
Had 4 years to do something and didn't
Stole classified documents

I'm glad some of you are finally admitting that Trump didn't accomplish some key things while POTUS.

:yesnod:

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 7:20pm

Like I posted...your position on this sounds like CNN or that KJP nappy headed fool.

My position is based on facts. Simple concept.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 7:22pm

What you believe concerning Trump means bupkis.

You are hung up on who's the most conservative...bla bla bla. Means zip if he's not a fighter.
DeSantis may make a good president one day. But not this day. And there is no way for you to qualify that he is smarter or emotionally stronger than Trump, those are just your feelings.

What proof do you have that DeSantis is not a fighter that would fight the deep state? You have none so that is just your feelings.

However, Trump has an actual history as POTUS where he was in a position to fight the deep state and he failed. Those are facts, not just my feelings.

Anjdog2003

01-29-2024, 7:29pm

Given your prior similar post about me, I assume you are referring to me. I'm still waiting for you to point out one post that proves I'm a liberal. Good luck finding one.

You may not be a full on Liberal but you sure as hell aren't even close to be conservative.

Bill

01-29-2024, 7:37pm

What proof do you have that DeSantis is not a fighter that would fight the deep state? You have none so that is just your feelings.

However, Trump has an actual history as POTUS where he was in a position to fight the deep state and he failed. Those are facts, not just my feelings.

Let's just Devil's Advocate here. Let's say DeSantis becomes president and wants to re-enact Trump era policies. He objectively agrees with most of it. Let's say he wants to finish the wall, stop the illegal invasion horde, and deport tens of millions of illegals.

How is Ron going to fare any better than Trump when he has to fight both the D's AND the R's (our friends back east?). You've heard credible evidence that most everyone in D.C. is either bought off, or blackmailed with sex parties and the like. So, how is Ron going to overcome all that? He won't have any support, other than the citizens supporting him. The actual lawmakers and courts will stymie him at every turn. Remember Paul Ryan and Cocaine Mitch doing exactly that to Trump for the first two years?

Trump couldn't even pick his own appointees if they needed Senate approval. Instead we got people like Bill Barr, Chris Wray, and Gina Haspel. Remember the big bald guy Trump had as interim DoJ head? What was his name? I liked him, he at least said the right things, but he couldn't get confirmed in a R controlled Senate.

How would Ron do any better? The institutional power doesn't want what I want, probably not even what you want. And you see what they're willing to do to anyone who actually presents a serious challenge, someone who won't play ball. How will Ron withstand that unrelenting punishment? Guarantee there was a line of women set to tearfully testify that Ron raped them 30 years ago. Bet it. And that's just for starters.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 7:45pm

You may not be a full on Liberal but you sure as hell aren't even close to be conservative.

Show one of my posts that proves your assertion. You can't.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 7:55pm

Let's just Devil's Advocate here. Let's say DeSantis becomes president and wants to re-enact Trump era policies. He objectively agrees with most of it. Let's say he wants to finish the wall, stop the illegal invasion horde, and deport tens of millions of illegals.

How is Ron going to fare any better than Trump when he has to fight both the D's AND the R's (our friends back east?). You've heard credible evidence that most everyone in D.C. is either bought off, or blackmailed with sex parties and the like. So, how is Ron going to overcome all that? He won't have any support, other than the citizens supporting him. The actual lawmakers and courts will stymie him at every turn. Remember Paul Ryan and Cocaine Mitch doing exactly that to Trump for the first two years?

Trump couldn't even pick his own appointees if they needed Senate approval. Instead we got people like Bill Barr, Chris Wray, and Gina Haspel. Remember the big bald guy Trump had as interim DoJ head? What was his name? I liked him, he at least said the right things, but he couldn't get confirmed in a R controlled Senate.

How would Ron do any better? The institutional power doesn't want what I want, probably not even what you want. And you see what they're willing to do to anyone who actually presents a serious challenge, someone who won't play ball. How will Ron withstand that unrelenting punishment? Guarantee there was a line of women set to tearfully testify that Ron raped them 30 years ago. Bet it. And that's just for starters.

You may be right...key word is 'may'. Two things I think would help DeSantis be more successful fighting the deep state:

1. He is smarter and has a much better understanding of how government works. He would be better able to get things through using any possible method.

2. He is less likely to piss off people that he has to work with.

We have 4 years to look at to see how Trump handled the deep state while POTUS so we don't have to speculate that much and it wasn't good. Given all the roadblocks you mentioned, why would anyone think Trump would be able to do anything with the deep state if he is elected again especially if the margins in Congress are very thin.

LATB

01-29-2024, 8:00pm

My position is based on facts. Simple concept.

You have facts proving that DeSantis is smarter and emotionally stronger than Trump?

LATB

01-29-2024, 8:03pm

You may not be a full on Liberal but you sure as hell aren't even close to be conservative.

Show one of my posts that proves your assertion. You can't.
VVV
The posts you made painting Trump as weak on the border sound liberal as hell. Actually your spin on the dreamers amnesty sounds straight out of CNN.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 8:06pm

Did Trump try to get an amnesty bill passed while he was POTUS? Yes, he did. As I said earlier, I'm not saying he was/is totally weak on the border because he isn't but he did try to get an amnesty bill for some illegals. I'm not OK with any amnesty at all.

Like I posted...your position on this sounds like CNN or that KJP nappy headed fool.

My position is based on facts. Simple concept.

You have facts proving that DeSantis is smarter and emotionally stronger than Trump?

The facts I was referring to were about Trump trying to get an amnesty bill passed while POTUS. Try to keep up.

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 8:08pm

VVV

You are referring to one of your posts to call me a liberal. Geez....I thought you could do better than that.

Anjdog2003

01-29-2024, 8:09pm

Show one of my posts that proves your assertion. You can't.

Link?

KenHorse

01-29-2024, 8:12pm

Not true. If you think this is true, post up some proof.

Anyone can look up who donated to any candidate.

Have at it

LATB

01-29-2024, 8:13pm

The facts I was referring to were about Trump trying to get an amnesty bill passed while POTUS. Try to keep up.

Yes and you spin that as Trump is liberal on the border. While leaving out any context of the bill and what the deal was and what it included.
How very CNN of you

LATB

01-29-2024, 8:16pm

Show one of my posts that proves your assertion. You can't.

You are referring to one of your posts to call me a liberal. Geez....I thought you could do better than that.

Apparently one isn’t what you wanted. :rofl:

cptlo306

01-29-2024, 8:20pm

Yes and you spin that as Trump is liberal on the border. While leaving out any context of the bill and what the deal was and what it included.
How very CNN of you

The info I posted was factual.

The problem with you Trumpsters is you believe any facts that are the least bit negative about Trump are either lies, spin, or should be blamed on someone else.

LATB

01-29-2024, 8:27pm

The info I posted was factual.

The problem with you Trumpsters is you believe any facts that are the least bit negative about Trump are either lies, spin, or should be blamed on someone else.

I never said what you posted was not factual. I pointed out that you left out any context and used the abbreviated fact to support your anti Trump narrative.
Exactly what the left does every day. And that example is what makes you appear politically left to many here.

Frankie the Fink

01-30-2024, 7:42am

Raazor

01-30-2024, 11:22am

Tikiman

01-30-2024, 11:31am

I never said what you posted was not factual. I pointed out that you left out any context and used the abbreviated fact to support your anti Trump narrative.
Exactly what the left does every day. And that example is what makes you appear politically left to many here.

Precisely. It's nuanced but very recognizable once you are tuned into it. I see a couple like him on several forums. They all think they are fooling the conservatives by pretending to be one and supporting rinos.

Remember Dave1? Every post he made was liberal claptrap, but he would swear up and down that he wasn't a liberal, he was an "independent". :rofl: We would all laugh at him. I don't think he ever fooled anyone.

I think the DNC pay these low-IQ morons to infiltrate and disrupt. I sincerely hope they aren't paying them much.

BayouCountry

01-30-2024, 12:29pm

I hope he sweeps the election - the array of third world attacks on the man are disgusting. The last I read is that the billionaire founder of "Linked In" was backing that Carroll woman's legal attacks on Trump. We have the media, entire administration and smarmy billionaires and tinpot bureaucrats like James/Bragg/Willis and Jack Smith trying to ruin Trump's reputation, career and finances.

I just found out that Trumps comments included in the lawsuit were made before the first verdict. There was no relationship to the first trial but it was introduced as evidence. It gets more crazy as more information comes out!

How anyone cannot see all these lawsuits for what they are is beyond me.

Aerovette

01-30-2024, 12:32pm

A helpful guide...

First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order. That order is made for man, and man is made for it: human nature is a constant, and moral truths are permanent.

This word order signifies harmony. There are two aspects or types of order: the inner order of the soul, and the outer order of the commonwealth. Twenty-five centuries ago, Plato taught this doctrine, but even the educated nowadays find it difficult to understand. The problem of order has been a principal concern of conservatives ever since conservative became a term of politics.

Our twentieth-century world has experienced the hideous consequences of the collapse of belief in a moral order. Like the atrocities and disasters of Greece in the fifth century before Christ, the ruin of great nations in our century shows us the pit into which fall societies that mistake clever self-interest, or ingenious social controls, for pleasing alternatives to an oldfangled moral order.

It has been said by liberal intellectuals that the conservative believes all social questions, at heart, to be questions of private morality. Properly understood, this statement is quite true. A society in which men and women are governed by belief in an enduring moral order, by a strong sense of right and wrong, by personal convictions about justice and honor, will be a good society—whatever political machinery it may utilize; while a society in which men and women are morally adrift, ignorant of norms, and intent chiefly upon gratification of appetites, will be a bad society—no matter how many people vote and no matter how liberal its formal constitution may be.

Second, the conservative adheres to custom, convention, and continuity. It is old custom that enables people to live together peaceably; the destroyers of custom demolish more than they know or desire. It is through convention—a word much abused in our time—that we contrive to avoid perpetual disputes about rights and duties: law at base is a body of conventions. Continuity is the means of linking generation to generation; it matters as much for society as it does for the individual; without it, life is meaningless. When successful revolutionaries have effaced old customs, derided old conventions, and broken the continuity of social institutions—why, presently they discover the necessity of establishing fresh customs, conventions, and continuity; but that process is painful and slow; and the new social order that eventually emerges may be much inferior to the old order that radicals overthrew in their zeal for the Earthly Paradise.

Conservatives are champions of custom, convention, and continuity because they prefer the devil they know to the devil they don’t know. Order and justice and freedom, they believe, are the artificial products of a long social experience, the result of centuries of trial and reflection and sacrifice. Thus the body social is a kind of spiritual corporation, comparable to the church; it may even be called a community of souls. Human society is no machine, to be treated mechanically. The continuity, the life-blood, of a society must not be interrupted. Burke’s reminder of the necessity for prudent change is in the mind of the conservative. But necessary change, conservatives argue, ought to be gradual and discriminatory, never unfixing old interests at once.

Third, conservatives believe in what may be called the principle of prescription. Conservatives sense that modern people are dwarfs on the shoulders of giants, able to see farther than their ancestors only because of the great stature of those who have preceded us in time. Therefore conservatives very often emphasize the importance of prescription—that is, of things established by immemorial usage, so that the mind of man runneth not to the contrary. There exist rights of which the chief sanction is their antiquity—including rights to property, often. Similarly, our morals are prescriptive in great part. Conservatives argue that we are unlikely, we moderns, to make any brave new discoveries in morals or politics or taste. It is perilous to weigh every passing issue on the basis of private judgment and private rationality. The individual is foolish, but the species is wise, Burke declared. In politics we do well to abide by precedent and precept and even prejudice, for the great mysterious incorporation of the human race has acquired a prescriptive wisdom far greater than any man’s petty private rationality.

Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence. Burke agrees with Plato that in the statesman, prudence is chief among virtues. Any public measure ought to be judged by its probable long-run consequences, not merely by temporary advantage or popularity. Liberals and radicals, the conservative says, are imprudent: for they dash at their objectives without giving much heed to the risk of new abuses worse than the evils they hope to sweep away. As John Randolph of Roanoke put it, Providence moves slowly, but the devil always hurries. Human society being complex, remedies cannot be simple if they are to be efficacious. The conservative declares that he acts only after sufficient reflection, having weighed the consequences. Sudden and slashing reforms are as perilous as sudden and slashing surgery.

Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety. They feel affection for the proliferating intricacy of long-established social institutions and modes of life, as distinguished from the narrowing uniformity and deadening egalitarianism of radical systems. For the preservation of a healthy diversity in any civilization, there must survive orders and classes, differences in material condition, and many sorts of inequality. The only true forms of equality are equality at the Last Judgment and equality before a just court of law; all other attempts at levelling must lead, at best, to social stagnation. Society requires honest and able leadership; and if natural and institutional differences are destroyed, presently some tyrant or host of squalid oligarchs will create new forms of inequality.

Sixth, conservatives are chastened by their principle of imperfectability. Human nature suffers irremediably from certain grave faults, the conservatives know. Man being imperfect, no perfect social order ever can be created. Because of human restlessness, mankind would grow rebellious under any utopian domination and would break out once more in violent discontent—or else expire of boredom. To seek for utopia is to end in disaster, the conservative says: we are not made for perfect things. All that we reasonably can expect is a tolerably ordered, just, and free society, in which some evils, maladjustments, and suffering will continue to lurk. By proper attention to prudent reform, we may preserve and improve this tolerable order. But if the old institutional and moral safeguards of a nation are neglected, then the anarchic impulse in humankind breaks loose: “the ceremony of innocence is drowned.” The ideologues who promise the perfection of man and society have converted a great part of the twentieth-century world into a terrestrial hell.

Seventh, conservatives are persuaded that freedom and property are closely linked. Separate property from private possession, and Leviathan becomes master of all. Upon the foundation of private property, great civilizations are built. The more widespread is the possession of private property, the more stable and productive is a commonwealth. Economic levelling, conservatives maintain, is not economic progress. Getting and spending are not the chief aims of human existence; but a sound economic basis for the person, the family, and the commonwealth is much to be desired.

Sir Henry Maine, in his Village Communities, puts strongly the case for private property, as distinguished from communal property: “Nobody is at liberty to attack several property and to say at the same time that he values civilization. The history of the two cannot be disentangled.” For the institution of several property—that is, private property—has been a powerful instrument for teaching men and women responsibility, for providing motives to integrity, for supporting general culture, for raising mankind above the level of mere drudgery, for affording leisure to think and freedom to act. To be able to retain the fruits of one’s labor; to be able to see one’s work made permanent; to be able to bequeath one’s property to one’s posterity; to be able to rise from the natural condition of grinding poverty to the security of enduring accomplishment; to have something that is really one’s own—these are advantages difficult to deny. The conservative acknowledges that the possession of property fixes certain duties upon the possessor; he accepts those moral and legal obligations cheerfully.

Eighth, conservatives uphold voluntary community, quite as they oppose involuntary collectivism. Although Americans have been attached strongly to privacy and private rights, they also have been a people conspicuous for a successful spirit of community. In a genuine community, the decisions most directly affecting the lives of citizens are made locally and voluntarily. Some of these functions are carried out by local political bodies, others by private associations: so long as they are kept local, and are marked by the general agreement of those affected, they constitute healthy community. But when these functions pass by default or usurpation to centralized authority, then community is in serious danger. Whatever is beneficent and prudent in modern democracy is made possible through cooperative volition. If, then, in the name of an abstract Democracy, the functions of community are transferred to distant political direction—why, real government by the consent of the governed gives way to a standardizing process hostile to freedom and human dignity.

For a nation is no stronger than the numerous little communities of which it is composed. A central administration, or a corps of select managers and civil servants, however well intentioned and well trained, cannot confer justice and prosperity and tranquility upon a mass of men and women deprived of their old responsibilities. That experiment has been made before; and it has been disastrous. It is the performance of our duties in community that teaches us prudence and efficiency and charity.

Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human passions. Politically speaking, power is the ability to do as one likes, regardless of the wills of one’s fellows. A state in which an individual or a small group are able to dominate the wills of their fellows without check is a despotism, whether it is called monarchical or aristocratic or democratic. When every person claims to be a power unto himself, then society falls into anarchy. Anarchy never lasts long, being intolerable for everyone, and contrary to the ineluctable fact that some persons are more strong and more clever than their neighbors. To anarchy there succeeds tyranny or oligarchy, in which power is monopolized by a very few.

The conservative endeavors to so limit and balance political power that anarchy or tyranny may not arise. In every age, nevertheless, men and women are tempted to overthrow the limitations upon power, for the sake of some fancied temporary advantage. It is characteristic of the radical that he thinks of power as a force for good—so long as the power falls into his hands. In the name of liberty, the French and Russian revolutionaries abolished the old restraints upon power; but power cannot be abolished; it always finds its way into someone’s hands. That power which the revolutionaries had thought oppressive in the hands of the old regime became many times as tyrannical in the hands of the radical new masters of the state.

Knowing human nature for a mixture of good and evil, the conservative does not put his trust in mere benevolence. Constitutional restrictions, political checks and balances, adequate enforcement of the laws, the old intricate web of restraints upon will and appetite—these the conservative approves as instruments of freedom and order. A just government maintains a healthy tension between the claims of authority and the claims of liberty.

Tenth, the thinking conservative understands that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society. The conservative is not opposed to social improvement, although he doubts whether there is any such force as a mystical Progress, with a Roman P, at work in the world. When a society is progressing in some respects, usually it is declining in other respects. The conservative knows that any healthy society is influenced by two forces, which Samuel Taylor Coleridge called its Permanence and its Progression. The Permanence of a society is formed by those enduring interests and convictions that gives us stability and continuity; without that Permanence, the fountains of the great deep are broken up, society slipping into anarchy. The Progression in a society is that spirit and that body of talents which urge us on to prudent reform and improvement; without that Progression, a people stagnate.

Therefore the intelligent conservative endeavors to reconcile the claims of Permanence and the claims of Progression. He thinks that the liberal and the radical, blind to the just claims of Permanence, would endanger the heritage bequeathed to us, in an endeavor to hurry us into some dubious Terrestrial Paradise. The conservative, in short, favors reasoned and temperate progress; he is opposed to the cult of Progress, whose votaries believe that everything new necessarily is superior to everything old.

Change is essential to the body social, the conservative reasons, just as it is essential to the human body. A body that has ceased to renew itself has begun to die. But if that body is to be vigorous, the change must occur in a regular manner, harmonizing with the form and nature of that body; otherwise change produces a monstrous growth, a cancer, which devours its host. The conservative takes care that nothing in a society should ever be wholly old, and that nothing should ever be wholly new. This is the means of the conservation of a nation, quite as it is the means of conservation of a living organism. Just how much change a society requires, and what sort of change, depend upon the circumstances of an age and a nation.

Such, then, are ten principles that have loomed large during the two centuries of modern conservative thought. Other principles of equal importance might have been discussed here: the conservative understanding of justice, for one, or the conservative view of education. But such subjects, time running on, I must leave to your private investigation.

The great line of demarcation in modern politics, Eric Voegelin used to point out, is not a division between liberals on one side and totalitarians on the other. No, on one side of that line are all those men and women who fancy that the temporal order is the only order, and that material needs are their only needs, and that they may do as they like with the human patrimony. On the other side of that line are all those people who recognize an enduring moral order in the universe, a constant human nature, and high duties toward the order spiritual and the order temporal.

Bill

01-30-2024, 4:34pm

https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1752387737410302160

(D) Congressman shows meme in congressional hearing room! Hell, I'm already voting for the guy, you don't have to keep selling him to us!

cptlo306

01-30-2024, 5:14pm

I think the DNC pay these low-IQ morons to infiltrate and disrupt. I sincerely hope they aren't paying them much.

Darn....you figured me out. The DNC pays me $1,000,000 a year just to come to the Vette Barn and trash Trump. Thanks for playing along.

Back to reality....I'm still waiting on a link to one post of mine that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm a liberal. Surely, if you are so confident, you could find one very quickly.

Aerovette

01-30-2024, 5:16pm

Darn....you figured me out. The DNC pays me $1,000,000 a year just to come to the Vette Barn and trash Trump. Thanks for playing along.

Back to reality....I'm still waiting on a link to one post of mine that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm a liberal. Surely, if you are so confident, you could find one very quickly.

There are hundreds of things I cannot prove, but it doesn't make them untrue.

TheHammer

01-31-2024, 8:07am

Crap, I'm still waiting for brandon to come through on "The Summer of Recovery" back when he was VP.

Tikiman

01-31-2024, 8:19am

There are hundreds of things I cannot prove, but it doesn't make them untrue.

Right?

I know it looks like a duck, and it sounds like a duck, and it swims like a duck.

But, PROVE it's a duck. :lol:

Mick

01-31-2024, 8:55am

Right?

I know it looks like a duck, and it sounds like a duck, and it swims like a duck.

But, PROVE it's a duck. :lol:

I say that's not a duck. Prove me wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt!

See how that works?

Torqaholic

01-31-2024, 9:00am

...

Back to reality....I'm still waiting on a link to one post of mine that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm a liberal. Surely, if you are so confident, you could find one very quickly.

Make it easy, show us your tits.

Frankie the Fink

01-31-2024, 9:02am

The left are going to indict Trump into office for 4 years and with this latest stunt by the justice system with the Carroll ludicrous law suit, I'm betting they've given him ANOTHER 4 years. Even dufus leftists are coming around to the persecution and harassment of a political opponent and its dawning on them that the same could happen to ANYBODY.

Tikiman

01-31-2024, 9:04am

Make it easy, show us your tits.

'

donuts

01-31-2024, 9:29am

This gives me a headache. And don’t ask me to prove what this is..

Raazor

01-31-2024, 10:13am

https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1752387737410302160

(D) Congressman shows meme in congressional hearing room! Hell, I'm already voting for the guy, you don't have to keep selling him to us!

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/cc316/Raazorred/Videos/Emotes/.highres/341.gif?width=180&height=180&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/cc316/Raazorred/Videos/Emotes/.highres/341.gif?width=180&height=180&fit=bounds)https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/cc316/Raazorred/Videos/Emotes/.highres/341.gif?width=180&height=180&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/cc316/Raazorred/Videos/Emotes/.highres/341.gif?width=180&height=180&fit=bounds)https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/cc316/Raazorred/Videos/Emotes/.highres/341.gif?width=180&height=180&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/cc316/Raazorred/Videos/Emotes/.highres/341.gif?width=180&height=180&fit=bounds)

Frankie the Fink

01-31-2024, 11:02am

when you say "sweep", do you mean getting every electoral vote? Just curious.

Enough to get elected

Aerovette

01-31-2024, 11:14am

Torqaholic

01-31-2024, 2:17pm

It would seem obvious to a persecuted race (their claim) that this is persecution, but the sentiment is less one of empathy and more one of "good".

The prosecutors in Georgia admitted they have in their possession 2 letters from the White House regarding the case. Defense wants them, prosecution's fighting release. Judge has postponed his decision until he reads them in private. Seems to be a very smart (aka white guy) person. I doubt he intends to allow Trump to be a victim of political persecution.