View Full Version : Construction peeps, please step inside...
cptlo306
12-31-2023, 6:52pm
When my new house was built over the last year, I messed up and went with both a smaller garage and smaller covered back porch area than I should have. I'm limited somewhat on expanding the back porch due to septic drain lines behind the house but there is nothing that would prevent adding a second garage and covered area between the two garages that could serve as an outside gathering area.
So, with that said, how much of a span can there be in a gable roof without having to add columns or some crazy expensive beams? This may be a dumb question but I know very little about home construction.
Here's a rough drawing showing what I'm thinking. Would this work without having to have columns (which would make driving into the garages a pain) or an expensive beam to cover the 50ft?
Thanks!!
94055
What's "expensive"?
You can't get away from all vertical reinforcement as even with a beam, it's highly likely you'll need a higher load capacity on the existing structures.
50' of anything is expensive now.
Rodnok1
12-31-2023, 7:08pm
That's a very long distance to go without support so no it'll require some beefy beams and supports at ends also.
You would need an engineer to design the beams I'd say.
One or two supports along that span and costs go way down I'd bet.
IrishSpuds
12-31-2023, 7:16pm
Half that width alone will need a microllam or LVL. I had a couple installed to make areas open plan; they had steel sandwiched in the middle for reinforcement. You probably want to talk to a structural engineer or Yaddy rather than guessing.
It will be a big ****er. And you can't just hang it on the existing building, if that's what you're planning. Add in at least two intermediate posts, more or less equal spans.
cptlo306
12-31-2023, 7:23pm
Thanks guys!
I was afraid 50ft was too much. Adding columns front and back on both sides 15ft in would make it much simpler and presumably cheaper, right? Even adding more columns within the left and right 15ft sections would be fine and might even look nicer. That leaves just a 20ft open section in the middle.
Something like this:
94058
Thanks guys!
I was afraid 50ft was too much. Adding columns front and back on both sides 15ft in would make it much simpler and presumably cheaper, right? Even adding more columns within the left and right 15ft sections would be fine and might even look nicer. That leaves just a 20ft open section in the middle.
Something like this:
94058
Save some money in waste. Make it 48' and go 3x16'. That's double car width.
Rodnok1
12-31-2023, 7:38pm
Good point as I extended a building I put up from 50 as it was an odd size and not much if any more in lumber costs.
20' with only the roof load and should be able to do that with LVLs or three 2x12s with 1/2 plywood sandwiched.
Also look into garage headers that do 20' easily.
50' would need to be almost all steel and not cheap at all.
20' with only the roof load and should be able to do that with LVLs or three 2x12s with 1/2 plywood sandwiched.
Also look into garage headers that do 20' easily.
50' would need to be almost all steel and not cheap at all.
I’m not sure that the three 2x12’s will span 20’. (We used to use 2x12’s for 16’ garage door headers but with a steel flitch plate)
I have a 16’ breezeway between the garage and house on my new build and the engineer calls for triple 16” LVL’s.
Also LVL’s for the 16’ garage door. And LVL’s for the 45’ rear porch, with posts at 15’ and 30’.
The front porch has posts 10’ apart and there triple 2x12’s are called for.
I think 18' is the max on the three 2x12s if my memory serves me correctly.
Also type of wood matters as well but doesn't extend it much.
I think 18' is the max on the three 2x12s if my memory serves me correctly.
Also type of wood matters as well but doesn't extend it much.
I’ll have to look into that. I could save a lot of money using 2x12’s vs LVL’s.
Yadkin knows these span tables like the back of his hand. Maybe he will check in and give us some information.
I’ll have to look into that. I could save a lot of money using 2x12’s vs LVL’s.
I did a 18' span (floor load only) for a loft in the barn with 2' cantilevered. Everything I could find states I was in in the clear. If I had a roof load as well it would not have worked.
Three 2x12s with 1/2" plywood sandwiched, glued, nailed and screwed in steel stirrups on 8x8 posts.
Yadkin knows these span tables like the back of his hand. Maybe he will check in and give us some information.
:funnier:
Yadkin knows these span tables like the back of his hand. Maybe he will check in and give us some information.
Not enough information given. Width of building, roof slope and overhang, location for snow/ wind loads. Any specail roof material? (I recently did a clay tile roof, used material from Europe, heavy stuff.)
He's on the right track with two posts. If he goes with an LVL, he can do a continuous span, 4 supports, and that may reduce the required beam size. Also an LVL can be taller, less plies.
Save some money in waste. Make it 48' and go 3x16'. That's double car width.
Good point. Always try 4' increments. :seasix:
kingpin
12-31-2023, 9:02pm
You could also do something a little different and creative.
If it's going to be a gathering area make it one.
Put an electric/gas 360 degree fireplace (or whatever you want)in the middle of the room.
Build it up as a supporting structure and use beams from it to the outside supporting walls.
In NC we have a minor profession called home designers. They are much cheaper than architects and I have yet to run into one that wasn't excellent. Hire one so you don't end up with an ugly structure with crappy resale value. Always treat your real estate as an investment, because it is.
Not enough information given. Width of building, roof slope and overhang, location for snow/ wind loads. Any specail roof material? (I recently did a clay tile roof, used material from Europe, heavy stuff.)
He's on the right track with two posts. If he goes with an LVL, he can do a continuous span, 4 supports, and that may reduce the required beam size. Also an LVL can be taller, less plies.
Garage = 2x6 walls.
Home = 2x6 walls.
10’x16’ breezeway connecting the two buildings.
Gable truss roof on all three structures 7/12 pitch 24” overhang.
5/8 plywood and peel&stick and GAF timberline shingles.
The 16’ breezeway beams span from the garage to the house.
Garage = 2x6 walls.
Home = 2x6 walls.
10’x16’ breezeway connecting the two buildings.
Gable truss roof on all three structures 7/12 pitch 24” overhang.
5/8 plywood and peel&stick and GAF timberline shingles.
The 16’ breezeway beams span from the garage to the house.
The roof span is only 16'? :confused5:
The roof span is only 16'? :confused5:
The roof span over the breezeway that will be on the beams is 10’. The breezeway is 10’ W x 16’ L.
Yadkin
12-31-2023, 10:06pm
The roof span over the breezeway that will be on the beams is 10’. The breezeway is 10’ W x 16’ L.
This is why I always do a site visit. His picture shows a 24'x24' garage on the right side, so the roof span should be 24'. With 2' overhangs, that's 24/2+2=14' of contributing roof width.
Dead loads would be 10.4psf. For a typical Piedmont home here in NC roof live loads are 20psf and 10psf for wind. Attic dead load 4.7psf (no insulation). If truss roof, no storage so a minimum live load of 10psf. Total of 55.1psf. Multiply by the width for a beam load of 771plf. Bump up to 785 for the weight of the beam.
For a 16' span 4 plies of SP#2 2x12 won't make it. Max bending stress is 2382psi andalowable is only 1114. This is LVL territory.
For a 16' span 4 plies of SP#2 2x12 won't make it. Max bending stress is 2382psi andalowable is only 1114. This is LVL territory.
This confirms the engineering on my plans. He calls for the LVL’s on the breezeway (16’ beam span) and the garage door (16’ header span) and the rear porch (15’ beam spans). The front porch he calls for triple 2x12 (10’ beam span)
cptlo306
12-31-2023, 11:15pm
This is why I always do a site visit. His picture shows a 24'x24' garage on the right side, so the roof span should be 24'. With 2' overhangs, that's 24/2+2=14' of contributing roof width.
LATB added specifics about his house build in here.
Mine is as you mentioned with 24' x 24' garage on the right side and 24' x 30' garage on the left side.
cptlo306
12-31-2023, 11:18pm
You could also do something a little different and creative.
If it's going to be a gathering area make it one.
Put an electric/gas 360 degree fireplace (or whatever you want)in the middle of the room.
Build it up as a supporting structure and use beams from it to the outside supporting walls.
The open covered area must remain open in order to get into the two garages. The garage doors (existing and proposed new one on left) face into the open 24' x 50' area.
Thanks.
TheHammer
01-01-2024, 7:36am
Use steel beams.
Something tells me 104' of garage roof will just scream "unplanned addition."
I would spend the money relocating your septic field so you can add on to your back porch for gatherings instead of trying to cover the area between two garages 50' apart. Then just build a second detached garage.
Something tells me 104' of garage roof will just scream "unplanned addition."
I would spend the money relocating your septic field so you can add on to your back porch for gatherings instead of trying to cover the area between two garages 50' apart. Then just build a second detached garage.
Agree. It could be less expensive than the original ideas. Also, the garage doors facing each other with the covered area between seems like a logistical headache. And the aesthetics would probably be awful.
Agree. It could be less expensive than the original ideas. Also, the garage doors facing each other with the covered area between seems like a logistical headache. And the aesthetics would probably be awful.
The aesthetics will absolutely be awful. 50'x24' of ~9' ceiling is going to look and feel very low. And at the end of the day, your gathering spot is on a driveway between two garages.
OP, do whatever you have to do to build out your back porch. You will appreciate being closer to the parts of your house like the kitchen when entertaining. And you will enjoy having permanent fixtures like furniture, a TV or even just a grill.
Rodnok1
01-01-2024, 11:23am
Horrible idea the garage doors like that with that setup to me as The posts would definitely be a huge headache then. Hmmmm. Of course could spend the dime on just one side but man that'd be a hella of a beam.
GTOguy
01-01-2024, 12:08pm
Some excellent advice here, but I'm waiting for Big Bob to make the final call. :)
Big bob
01-01-2024, 12:20pm
Some excellent advice here, but I'm waiting for Big Bob to make the final call. :)
94091
cptlo306
01-01-2024, 12:45pm
Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I hadn't really thought of what it would look like that much but yeah, it probably would look very weird.
I also hadn't thought about getting the septic lines moved...good idea and probably less expensive than many of the beam ideas.
Decisions, decisions, decisions....
There is a lesson here....after you've finalized your house plans, double the garage and back (and maybe front) porch areas.
I have a 50’ LVL beam in my house. I think it’s 10-12” wide and 24” tall. They said it’s the largest they had ever framed in a residential construction. Load is a lot higher as it carries a main wall of the second story.
I don’t think the OP would want to go that route if cost is an issue. Not only are the beams pretty pricey, but you may need a crane to set it in places install really runs up bs just putting in a couple posts.
That's more likely a glulam. :yesnod:
Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I hadn't really thought of what it would look like that much but yeah, it probably would look very weird.
I also hadn't thought about getting the septic lines moved...good idea and probably less expensive than many of the beam ideas.
Decisions, decisions, decisions....
There is a lesson here....after you've finalized your house plans, double the garage and back (and maybe front) porch areas.
Hire a house designer.
Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I hadn't really thought of what it would look like that much but yeah, it probably would look very weird.
I also hadn't thought about getting the septic lines moved...good idea and probably less expensive than many of the beam ideas.
Decisions, decisions, decisions....
There is a lesson here....after you've finalized your house plans, double the garage and back (and maybe front) porch areas.
We designed the new house with huge porches: 10'x48' front and 12'x45' rear (will be screened). And the breezeway 10'x16' will also be screened.
The garage is 22'x26' with a 12'x16' attached "shop" (actually will be a HVAC man cave/office).
Pole barn is 30'x60' with plans to wall it up (also may add a lean-to) . And now plans being made for another building that will be left an open pole barn (or wall up and leave current barn open).
In a perfect setup all my equipment and tractors and trailers and ship tools and hardware will be under covered storage.
And...if...big if...
we get any animals I will build shelters for them.
:cert:
That's more likely a glulam. :yesnod:
That was my thought as well. :yesnod:
That was my thought as well. :yesnod:
As usual, BadgerCrat doesn't know what the **** he is talking about. But he posts anyways, bragging about his largess and complaining about the Boomers that gave it to him. :Jeff '79:
z06psi
01-01-2024, 10:04pm
Some excellent advice here, but I'm waiting for Big Bob to make the final call. :)
The only thing he has ever built was a case against himself.
I’m pretty certain the person who laid that beam was in fact not a boomer.
And you said it was one thing. You might be right, but without seeing it, how could you make that claim? At all?
Your plan indicates it is a 5 1/2" x 24" glulam.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/1297x975/image_10fcefa2284e08fb5f404aee7b81b032b74592f0.jpg
Yadkin
01-02-2024, 12:15am
I’m pretty certain the person who laid that beam was in fact not a boomer.
And you said it was one thing. You might be right, but without seeing it, how could you make that claim? At all?
You need to learn how to read, because that's not at all what I said.
Regarding your claim that you have an LVL that size, I know that's not true for the same reason that Lars does: we know stuff, and you don't. It's called: "wisdom", and you lack it. :D
Tikiman
01-02-2024, 7:16am
Your plan indicates it is a 5 1/2" x 24" glulam.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/1297x975/image_10fcefa2284e08fb5f404aee7b81b032b74592f0.jpg
Looks like they plan on using soup cans to hold it up as well. Had they consulted Big Slob, they could have gotten away with a bottle of cheap hooch and some oak stumps. :yesnod:
Your plan indicates it is a 5 1/2" x 24" glulam.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/1297x975/image_10fcefa2284e08fb5f404aee7b81b032b74592f0.jpg
94116
Looks like they plan on using soup cans to hold it up as well. Had they consulted Big Slob, they could have gotten away with a bottle of cheap hooch and some oak stumps. :yesnod:
Actually, the large 24" GL is bearing on a column. The smaller 12" GL (11-7/8) is hanging off of it on Simpson Soup Cans. :seasix:
Tikiman
01-02-2024, 7:56am
Actually, the large 24" GL is bearing on a column. The smaller 12" GL (11-7/8) is hanging off of it on Simpson Soup Cans. :seasix:
Big mistake. Every drunken hillbilly knows to use oak stumps in that application. :lol:
Actually, the large 24" GL is bearing on a column. The smaller 12" GL (11-7/8) is hanging off of it on Simpson Soup Cans. :seasix:
And not specified model or number, type of fastener. No load information available to the builder to order it.
[Large Blob]That house is obviously going to fall down, killing all its occupants and the resultant earthquake collapsing the neighbor's house as well.[/Large Blob]
:Jeff '79:
Tikiman
01-02-2024, 9:20am
GL means LVL.
'
GL means LVL.
His Gluelams identify as LVL’s. :Jeff '79:
Tikiman
01-02-2024, 10:15am
As long as they can "identify" the correct moment of inertia, all will be fine. :rofl:
Big bob
01-02-2024, 10:24am
Looks like they plan on using soup cans to hold it up as well. Had they consulted Big Slob, they could have gotten away with a bottle of cheap hooch and some oak stumps. :yesnod:
So we have a claimed engineer that can't understand the English language or read blueprints. So what was your claim to fame or are you like Yadkin and just suck off your wife and her relatives?
94120
Yadkin
01-02-2024, 11:49am
His Gluelams identify as LVL’s. :Jeff '79:
*Glulams
https://www.apawood.org/glulam
:seasix:
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