Went to the rifle range this morning

[JRD77VET]

Since trout season just started in PA last week, my gun club closes all the ranges the first three weekends to keep the fishermen safe :rolleyes:

I took my Ruger American in .223 to the range today. I put lower scope mounts on it and added a comp. It has a 6-24 x 50 scope on it.

First pic, rifle

second, five shot group to verify placement.

third, center was dialing in the scope Literally left to right as I made adjustments) and the top of the "X" was after I dialed it in. I'm happy with that. :cool1:

[Louie Detroit]

Looks like some Kentucky Windage needs to come into play.:yesnod:

[Torqaholic]

Not shabby for factory built ammo. If handloads you might want to revisit the bench :)

[Mike Mercury]

https://www.m14forum.com/attachments/gun-control-790-jpg.404264/


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGIa-k8U0AALz2b.jpg

[JRD77VET]

Looks like some Kentucky Windage needs to come into play.:yesnod:

First target was previous settings before I changed the scope mounts and added a comp. Center of second pic was moving in the dials to bring it in.

Top of X was final. By that time the wind had picked up and I went home.

[JRD77VET]

Not shabby for factory built ammo. If handloads you might want to revisit the bench :)

Winchester M885

[Blademaker]

Nice....:seasix:

[StaticCling]

Nice shooting!

What's the twist on that barrel?


I have a Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .223 that's STOOPID accurate. I've literally put them through the same hole at 100 yards with a 60 Grain V-Max and a low dose of IMR 4198. For some reason the rifle likes powder-puff loads. 9 twist by the way.

[Frankie the Fink]

That's the way you do it, many don't understand the difference between "precision" and "accuracy"...

[JRD77VET]

Nice shooting!

What's the twist on that barrel?


I have a Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .223 that's STOOPID accurate. I've literally put them through the same hole at 100 yards with a 60 Grain V-Max and a low dose of IMR 4198. For some reason the rifle likes powder-puff loads. 9 twist by the way.

Thanks, can't wait to get more trigger time.

1:8 according to the Ruger website.

[StaticCling]

It would be interesting to try some heavier projectiles in that thing. I bet they would stabilize better than mine will.

Cool rifle!

[Yadkin]

Since trout season just started in PA last week, my gun club closes all the ranges the first three weekends to keep the fishermen safe :rolleyes:

I took my Ruger American in .223 to the range today. I put lower scope mounts on it and added a comp. It has a 6-24 x 50 scope on it.

First pic, rifle

second, five shot group to verify placement.

third, center was dialing in the scope Literally left to right as I made adjustments) and the top of the "X" was after I dialed it in. I'm happy with that. :cool1:


Stop anticipating the shot. You're well over 1/8" off. ;)

[z06psi]

Stop anticipating the shot. You're well over 1/8" off. ;)

What does your husband shoot?

[JRD77VET]

Stop anticipating the shot. You're well over 1/8" off. ;)

It's basically a new gun for me. Not that many rounds out of it yet.

If you want to get one for yourself, here it is
https://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/26965.html

[markids77]

Stop anticipating the shot. You're well over 1/8" off. ;)

That group shows sub MOA accuracy from a stock factory weapon with what might be considered "bulk" factory ammo. I know you think you're being "cute" but that is really nice shooting with a standard rifle and off the shelf ammunition.

[Torqaholic]

It's basically a new gun for me. Not that many rounds out of it yet.

If you want to get one for yourself, here it is
https://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/26965.html

Love me some Ruger bolt action. Mine's a 243 varmint/target rifle. Long/heavy 1" barrel. Fore stock ~3 inches wide. Probably too much for a smaller person to manage but not bad hiking for me with a sling. Super fun to shoot. Every deer I've taken with it was an instant kill (leaves the head attached by a couple thin strips of fur).

Looks like this -

https://s3.amazonaws.com/mgm-content/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2018/10/11/8997956_01__243_win_ruger_m77_mark_ii_var_640.jpg

[Ronins2ndCuzzin]

If holes are touching at 100 yds, you're shooting well. When you have holes touching at 300 yards, with iron sights, you're a good shooter.

[simpleman68]

Looking good Jeff! :cert:
Scott

[Vette40th]

You will not be a vegetarian with those groups.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Not shabby for factory built ammo. If handloads you might want to revisit the bench :)

Explain. (I'm not being a smart ass either)

You know what I know about? Guitars and cameras for example. What would make a handload superior to factory built ammo I've no idea.

Isn't factory built ammo built to a specification of some sort? Obviously the process is automated.

[Vette40th]

Explain. (I'm not being a smart ass either)

You know what I know about? Guitars and cameras for example. What would make a handload superior to factory built ammo I've no idea.

Isn't factory built ammo built to a specification of some sort? Obviously the process is automated.

Handloads are for your rifle. Its like getting a tune up on your car then getting a professional tuner to tweak it till it runs perfect. Same tune wont work great in another car, but yours it does.
Handloading makes your particular rifle work as close to perfect as you can get it.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Handloads are for your rifle. Its like getting a tune up on your car then getting a professional tuner to tweak it till it runs perfect. Same tune wont work great in another car, but yours it does.
Handloading makes your particular rifle work as close to perfect as you can get it.

How? A .30-06 will only take a .30-06 round right? How do you tailor it to one specific gun?

[Vette40th]

How? A .30-06 will only take a .30-06 round right? How do you tailor it to one specific gun?
Changing the powder load and bullets. Different drag on different bullets. Different powders burn at different rates, for different length barrels etc.
Makes a big difference in some rifles.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Changing the powder load and bullets. Different drag on different bullets. Different powders burn at different rates, for different length barrels etc.
Makes a big difference in some rifles.

That sounds like a laborious trial and error process until you start dialing things in.

Add in the human factor and this could take a while.

[Ronins2ndCuzzin]

Explain. (I'm not being a smart ass either)

You know what I know about? Guitars and cameras for example. What would make a handload superior to factory built ammo I've no idea.

Isn't factory built ammo built to a specification of some sort? Obviously the process is automated.

Think of it this way...you buy a sports car to do a certain thing. (Factory ammo). Then you modify the car to make it do that thing better. (Hand -loads).

Hand loads are typically head spaced and "tuned" for a specific rifle. For instance, I reload all of my 5.56 to MILSPEC dimensions (with a specific velocity in mind) for use in ALL AR's. But when I reload my .300BLK, I only run it in one rifle, so therefore I build those rounds for max performance out of my particular rifle. So I set the bullet depth to the headspace dimension I need, and load the powder charge for either max supersonic performance, or superior subsonic performance. Where hand loading gets real fun is with pistol rounds. You can make cartridges perform exactly like you want...or in ways that a factory would never load. IE, I LOVE a 147 gn 9mm with a really hot powder charge that gets the velocity up to 124 gn levels. It's really fun to experiment with different loads that get the weapon to perform like you want it to...just like a hot-rod.

[StaticCling]

That sounds like a laborious trial and error process until you start dialing things in.

Add in the human factor and this could take a while.

It certainly can be. Some people get super anal about it. They weigh cartridge cases, check concentricity, uniform the primer pockets and flash holes etc.

I did a lot of that when dialing in a particular .223 rifle that I own, but realized in the end that Lapua Match Brass along with a 60 grain Hornady V-Max and a starting load of IMR4198 Propellant did the job really well.

I still mess around trying different powders and projectiles from time to time for fun though...and I can turn any brass into "match grade" with the tools I have.

[StaticCling]

How? A .30-06 will only take a .30-06 round right? How do you tailor it to one specific gun?

Also in some cases, hand loading is really the only option. If you have an obscure caliber etc.

I own an M1 rifle in 30 caliber, which the civilian equivalent is 30.06. It's not advisable to shoot commercial 30.06 ammunition in that rifle as the modern loads are hotter and can bend the operating rod. You can mod the rifle to accept modern ammo, but I prefer to keep things stock.

They designed the rifle around a very specific load/projectile. They manufacture commercial ammo for these rifles, but that gets very expensive FAST. Hand Loading is the safe and cost effective option in that case.

[Burro (He/Haw)]

Lapua Match Brass along with a 60 grain Hornady V-Max and a starting load of IMR4198 Propellant.
Oh.

:funniest:

I have no idea what the hell any of that means.

Wait. V-Max! I know what a V-Max is. A motorcycle. One of the very early 'muscle bikes.' :yesnod:

[mrvette]

Decades ago I had a 30.06 rifle, and so hand loaded some ammo, out to our favorite barn, and so was standing there shooting, bolt action, next round and so in the middle of the bunch of rounds was ONE totally exceptional.......the only one that ever did that particular maneuver on me......

Cocked/loaded next round sited in, pulled trigger....click---nothing.....maybe as much as 4 seconds later I relax and go to drop it off my shoulder, at about 2" away the thing goes off, full charge.......

WTF!!!!! of course NO clue as to where bullet went, probably still in orbit......

:confused5::dance::issues:

[6spdC6]

That sounds like a laborious trial and error process until you start dialing things in.

Add in the human factor and this could take a while.


Right you are, there is a lot more to it than what was written here. You did get good information.

There are so many ways to influence a bullets flight. By changing projectile weights, shapes, primer types, power types and amount of power. Then you can get into case length.ETC Stuff this deep is only done on a limited bases.

The rifle shooter shoots much less than a serious pistol shooter that they can afford the time and effort to get the "perfect group" Wher a rifleman might make up a 100 rounds a pistol man might make up a few thousand.

I have a 25.06 in Remington 700BDL that is a very accurate rifle, I did spend a lot of time and effort to make the perfect load. Also did a bunch to the rifle its self. For my handguns I worked up a load that was decent and easy to duplicate and I make them by the thousands Vs a limited amount for rifle shooting. That means for a given time on the range using a pistol I might fire a couple hundred rounds, with a rifle in the same time frame best bet under 20. Got to allow for a cool barrel.

Now due to reasons I'm doing lots less shooting, most of it now with a .22 rifle and .38 revolver!

[Torqaholic]

How? A .30-06 will only take a .30-06 round right? How do you tailor it to one specific gun?

There's a lot involved with handloading. Not to be confused with reloading. Handloading is a quest for perfection. The components are all individually weighed, sized, and sorted to minimize variation. Overall length of the cartridge is built to match the gun. Throat is a freebore between where the chamber ends and the rifling begins. Minimizing this jump is conducive to accuracy. If you know this length you can seat the bullet out closer to the rifling (touching the rifling is a pressure hazard). Factories have a liability problem because manufacturing tolerances and bullet shapes vary, so they play it safe.

You'd need to read a bunch of books and buy some equipment before undertaking such procedures. It's not the kind of thing you ought to learn through trial and error.

Typical factory group will be 3-4 times larger than a decent handload. Guy at work gave me his Marlin 30-30 to work up some loads. Group size with factory ammo was about 3 inches at 100 yards (typical for the caliber). A week later I returned his gun along with 100 rounds of ammo that did 3/4 inch groups. He was very happy with the results. As payment he showed me where he hunts. Always nice to find a new spot :D

[StaticCling]

Oh.

:funniest:

I have no idea what the hell any of that means.

Wait. V-Max! I know what a V-Max is. A motorcycle. One of the very early 'muscle bikes.' :yesnod:

In English, I was wasting a lot of time. :Jeff '79:

[JRD77VET]

Explain. (I'm not being a smart ass either)

You know what I know about? Guitars and cameras for example. What would make a handload superior to factory built ammo I've no idea.

Isn't factory built ammo built to a specification of some sort? Obviously the process is automated.

How? A .30-06 will only take a .30-06 round right? How do you tailor it to one specific gun?

That sounds like a laborious trial and error process until you start dialing things in.

Add in the human factor and this could take a while.

As explained already, it is simply finding which load works best in that particular rifle.

I'll pick a powder and bullet weight and then load about five rounds each with slightly different amounts of that powder.

Shoot each group and see which is best for your rifle.

I went to the Hodgdon reloading ( they make powder) and plugged in ".223 Remington, 70 grain bullet and IMR 4895 powder"

It gave me this
BULLET WEIGHT
70 GR. SPR SP
CASE
WINCHESTER
PRIMER
WINCHESTER SR, SMALL RIFLE
Starting Load Maximum Loads
Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

IMR 4895 OUT OF STOCK 0.224" 2.140" 20.2 2,562 45,700 PSI 24.5C 2,917 52,300 PSI


I bolded the amount of powder used in grains and the "C" means it's a compressed load

Start low and work up

[DJ_Critterus]

What does your husband shoot?

He shoots a load at him. :ack:

[markids77]

How? A .30-06 will only take a .30-06 round right? How do you tailor it to one specific gun?

Think of it like walking into a retail shop full of custom guitars and sampling different neck dimensions, fret width and height options, action height, pickup styles, switch and control wiring design etcetera. Spend enough time trying different combos, choosing the best characteristics then having the luthier build you a custom one off axe that just feels and sounds perfect... setting up custom ammunition is a lot like that. It does take time, careful documentation and a bit of expense but those of us who love the sport actually (mostly) enjoy the process. Unless of course you find the gun really prefers an off the shelf load....

[Ronins2ndCuzzin]

My favorite recipe for 5.56 is this:

62 grain SS109 (or lake city green tips, or 61.8 gn orange tip tracers)
25.0 grain of Reloader 15
CCI No 41 primer
Dillon full length sizer for semi auto use

Holes are touching at 300 yds on iron sights. For a light AP round, it's very impressive...and consistent.

[JRD77VET]

Went back to the range this morning with an allen wrench and dialed in the stainless steel barrel 16" AR. :seasix:

Then with the Ruger American in .223 , I shot a few reloads I'm working on at 100 yards.

First, four rounds of Winchester 48 soft point using 26.5 grains of RL 15

Second, five rounds of Hornady 55 grain soft point using 26 grains of RL 15 ( and modified my hold for better grouping). The "high" shot I knew I pulled it before I looked at the hole :banghead:

Third, five rounds of Hornaday 55 grain V max using 26 grains of RL 15

I have more bullets coming so I'll keep at it. :seasix:

[markids77]

Went back to the range this morning with an allen wrench and dialed in the stainless steel barrel 16" AR. :seasix:

Then with the Ruger American in .223 , I shot a few reloads I'm working on at 100 yards.

First, four rounds of Winchester 48 soft point using 26.5 grains of RL 15

Second, five rounds of Hornady 55 grain soft point using 26 grains of RL 15 ( and modified my hold for better grouping). The "high" shot I knew I pulled it before I looked at the hole :banghead:

Third, five rounds of Hornaday 55 grain V max using 26 grains of RL 15

I have more bullets coming so I'll keep at it. :seasix:

Why? I doubt you'll improve on 26gr and the 55sp.

[JRD77VET]

Why? I doubt you'll improve on 26gr and the 55sp.

I have some 62 grain bullets on the way plus different powders to try.

I am very happy with how it shoots but am willing to try to get it better.

[Ronins2ndCuzzin]

Were you trying my recipe? Or was that one from one of your manuals? If it was mine...looks like it's working pretty well. 26.0 gn of RL15 is pretty dang hot. I like it. LOL!

[Torqaholic]

...
I am very happy with how it shoots ...

Looks like good consistency judging by the vertical spread. That horizontal stuff is probably just the wind ;)

[JRD77VET]

Were you trying my recipe? Or was that one from one of your manuals? If it was mine...looks like it's working pretty well. 26.0 gn of RL15 is pretty dang hot. I like it. LOL!

Your recipe used 62 grain pills and all I had was up to 55 grains. I used the 26th Hodgdon manual which had a max load of 26.5 using RL15

I got a "few" new 62 grains in today's mail :hurray:
Same manual shows 25.5 grains as max load so I'll see how 25 grains works in my Ruger

[Ronins2ndCuzzin]

Your recipe used 62 grain pills and all I had was up to 55 grains. I used the 26th Hodgdon manual which had a max load of 26.5 using RL15

I got a "few" new 62 grains in today's mail :hurray:
Same manual shows 25.5 grains as max load so I'll see how 25 grains works in my Ruger

Hell yeah brother. I think you'll like how they shoot. My issue is finding RL15 powder. Been a while since I've seen any even on the internet.

[JRD77VET]

Worked on a new load using RL 15 and 62 grain SS109's. It was really windy with occasional gusts.

First pics is tuning the scope to zero it in and second is a 10 shot group at 100 yards.

[Ronins2ndCuzzin]

I'd say that recipe is pretty sweet aye? Especially for a "combat" round.