View Full Version : Solar power
My son lives south of Denver CO and GovCo there makes it a no-brainer to install solar panels.
1. 30% federal tax givemesum.
2. Interest rate 1.5%.
3. Utility buy-back of excess power during the daylight hours of $0.20/ kwh.
4. Purchase grid power at the smart meter rate, from $0.20 peak periods to some fraction at night.
In a nutshell, the grid becomes a battery that pays you to charge it, and offers a discount rate when you use it.
In contrast, not a no-brainer at all here in western NC. Our local utility is a co-op, and they buy power from TVA.
1. 30% federal tax givemesum.
2. Interest rate 3%.
3. Utility buy-back of excess power during the daylight hours of $0.02/ kwh.
4. Purchase grid power when needed at the fixed meter rate, $0.16.
A far different conclusion, using the grid as a battery allows them to screw you during sunny days and offers no benefit otherwise.
This second scenario steers me to battery backup- charger it during the day and then use the power at night. Even for a small system like mine that adds about $20 to $25k to the total cost.
:angry:
I know two guys who did the complete solar/battery/power-wall thing. One in a 1200sF house, and the other in a huge 4500 foot house. In both cases, the batteries were about 30k, but are supposed to last 20+ years. The end result is they both have all the power they need and no electric bill. The 1200 sf guy lives in the CA mountains, but has welders and grinders, tools, etc. that run on electricity. He mainly uses firewood for heat. The other guy lives in Hawaii so has no need for a heater. But the property is about 5 acres and everything is electric. He runs tools too, as he's a custom furniture maker. Both are happy as hell to be totally 'off grid'.
One of the big issues here compared to those locations is that we have clouds, fog, rain and snow. So I basically have to double-up on the panels.
I heat with oil and propane, and only use about 700 kwh/ month.
at $100/month of electric usage, it would take 30 years to break even if the cost to me was 36k. panels only last 15-20 years, and decrease in performance over time.
pass.
That is a biggie. The Hawaii guy has sun almost daily and zero need for heat. The mountain guy is at 2700 feet and gets some snow, but his place is efficient and small. Another thing: the Hawaii guy never has to clean his panels. The mountain guy does, from tree droppings, etc. Here in Fresno the panels need to be cleaned every couple of months due to leaves, particulates, etc. Most folks don't do it. I have yet to go solar as the buy=back here sucks. Also I may be leaving the state. We'll see.
DJ_Critterus
12-13-2022, 3:19pm
My parents were tempted to put solar on their house here in FL. Buyback and ROI wasn't enough to justify the cost and they would have ended up paying about the same each month for the system that they currently pay for using the grid.
Major breakthrough in nuclear fusion was just announced where power produced exceeded the amount needed to start it. Looking forward to the day when I can have a pint sized nuclear fusion reactor on the property screw the solar panels
This ^^^
And I would not have those solar panels on my roof if given to me. :ack:
Onebadcad
12-13-2022, 4:20pm
Not sure, I have been told, in FL, that panels on roof may get your HO INS policy cancelled, as the weight stresses the roof, which was not engineered for the excess tonnage--FL HO INS is very pricey, if you get cancelled your options will be limited, and will probably be twice as much.
Also, not many have in FL, as I have seen a few math examples and it does not make good financial sense UNLESS your current bill is HUGELY AND you plan to live in the house for the 500 years.
I know a dood, big house, panels were $80K, I think his bill was $350/month, I cannot opt for this roof destroyer given that math.
Not sure, I have been told, in FL, that panels on roof may get your HO INS policy cancelled, as the weight stresses the roof...
These panels weigh under 50# and cover just over 21 square feet, so 2.4 pounds per square feet. That's about the same as a second layer of fiberglass shingles, which is very common...
Not sure, I have been told, in FL, that panels on roof may get your HO INS policy cancelled, as the weight stresses the roof, which was not engineered for the excess tonnage--FL HO INS is very pricey, if you get cancelled your options will be limited, and will probably be twice as much.
Also, not many have in FL, as I have seen a few math examples and it does not make good financial sense UNLESS your current bill is HUGELY AND you plan to live in the house for the 500 years.
I know a dood, big house, panels were $80K, I think his bill was $350/month, I cannot opt for this roof destroyer given that math.
with those numbers, he's looking at a break even of 19+ years...way too long.
I read an article long ago about a new Fedex warehouse, they considered covering it with solar panels. they ran the numbers on payback, way, way longer than 7 years, so hard pass. but consumers don't look at it the same way as large businesses apparently.
mrvette
12-13-2022, 4:45pm
Fairly sure I have posted here about some friends near W.Va. up in the mountains.....their electric bill on the ~7000' house was 900+/month and they have heat pump on ~30 acres.....so went solar some 3 years ago....dropped their bill down to the 150;month here just recently....
they paid a LOT for the build though, on the side of the mountain...not on the roof.....I forget the price on the install, but over 100 grand....
Steve_R
12-13-2022, 4:52pm
Major breakthrough in nuclear fusion was just announced where power produced exceeded the amount needed to start it. Looking forward to the day when I can have a pint sized nuclear fusion reactor on the property screw the solar panels
You won’t live nearly long enough to see that.
theandies
12-13-2022, 5:10pm
Major breakthrough in nuclear fusion was just announced where power produced exceeded the amount needed to start it. Looking forward to the day when I can have a pint sized nuclear fusion reactor on the property screw the solar panels
SHit, we've had that tech since the '80's
https://www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/delorean_40_153.jpg
Fairly sure I have posted here about some friends near W.Va. up in the mountains.....their electric bill on the ~7000' house was 900+/month and they have heat pump on ~30 acres.....so went solar some 3 years ago....dropped their bill down to the 150;month here just recently....
they paid a LOT for the build though, on the side of the mountain...not on the roof.....I forget the price on the install, but over 100 grand....
100000/(900-150)=11+ years.... too long.
100000/(900-150)=11+ years.... too long.
Longer than that when you consider the time value of money....
TheHammer
12-13-2022, 5:52pm
We have businesses here that install wire mesh to the side of the panels and rest on the tile to prevent pigeons from roosting under them.
This ^^^
And I would not have those solar panels on my roof if given to me. :ack:
My friend in the mountains has them mounted on the ground below his orchard on a west-facing slope. He has 20 acres, so they are out of sight, in the sun, and can be cleaned off as easily as a car hood.
We bought our house with the panels being two years old with a 25 year guarantee on them. Our electric bill in the summer was $40, last two months $13 and $16. If I can get the wife to shut off the damn lights around the house instead of keeping 6 lights on all the time we would have a credit most of the time for the power.
Rodnok1
12-14-2022, 6:32am
Some states and electric companies are NOT allowing you to sell them power now past what you use in a 24 hr period then it resets. It was in news while back so ROI has jumped 5 years almost to end of lifs for panels thus you may never actually get your money back now.
They are also charging a minimum amount a month so regardless of how much solar you produce they get paid, gris access fees yo. Said it wasn't fair you used their lines at their cost. Wtf as they wanted the free or low cost to them power.. Nope it cut into their profits even though it's a minimal amount of money to them.
Funny how this was all 3rd page news and has been happening for a few years now.
Don't believe me google it, Cali was one state iirc and NC Duke energy was another company doing it.
Some states and electric companies are NOT allowing you to sell them power now past what you use in a 24 hr period then it resets. It was in news while back so ROI has jumped 5 years almost to end of lifs for panels thus you may never actually get your money back now.
They are also charging a minimum amount a month so regardless of how much solar you produce they get paid, gris access fees yo. Said it wasn't fair you used their lines at their cost. Wtf as they wanted the free or low cost to them power.. Nope it cut into their profits even though it's a minimal amount of money to them.
Funny how this was all 3rd page news and has been happening for a few years now.
Don't believe me google it, Cali was one state iirc and NC Duke energy was another company doing it.
You're dead on correct. Several years ago I looked at doing this and TVA was paying some multiple of their residential rate to purchase excess solar power. I forget the exact number but it may have been twice the rate. But the house wasn't my full-time residence then so I didn't qualify.
At that same time TVA was purchasing excess residential wind power at a "**** you" price, similar to what they are doing now with solar. Apparently their arbitrary "green goal" didn't include that alternative.
They probably got a lot of folks to buy solar, met their green goal, then changed the deal, screwing the little guy like all monopolies do.
Rodnok1
12-14-2022, 9:09am
You're dead on correct. Several years ago I looked at doing this and TVA was paying some multiple of their residential rate to purchase excess solar power. I forget the exact number but it may have been twice the rate. But the house wasn't my full-time residence then so I didn't qualify.
At that same time TVA was purchasing excess residential wind power at a "**** you" price, similar to what they are doing now with solar. Apparently their arbitrary "green goal" didn't include that alternative.
They probably got a lot of folks to buy solar, met their green goal, then changed the deal, screwing the little guy like all monopolies do.
My FIL is heavily invested in solar for under 10 years now, he's sweating ths upcoming changes where they live as it'll mean a 10 to 15k hit to his wallet.
Couple that with solar companies coming and going not to mention the absolute failures that have happened and homeowners ars stuck with huge losses...
I'll pass myself.
mrvette
12-14-2022, 9:22am
We bought our house with the panels being two years old with a 25 year guarantee on them. Our electric bill in the summer was $40, last two months $13 and $16. If I can get the wife to shut off the damn lights around the house instead of keeping 6 lights on all the time we would have a credit most of the time for the power.
Change to LED lights when the hot ones burn out......cut your light bill down to zero/can't FIND it.....:seasix:
Mike Mercury
12-14-2022, 9:25am
if you budget for solar panel and battery replacement (which eventually is a reality)... is there any savings?
Rodnok1
12-14-2022, 9:31am
if you budget for solar panel and battery replacement (which eventually is a reality)... is there any savings?
Yes on the far end, it was a 10 year ROI then you'd make money or rather save money from electricity bills. Now with the bullshit they're pulling with minimum monthly payments and grid fees along with changing what they'll buy and how much it's 15 years.. And that's the lifespan of solar panels for the mosy part so you'll save exactly nothing now.
Solar companies are having a hard time selling them now and it will soon tank, leaving those with panels SOL as they'll be no warranty if something happens.
Everything was fine until power companies saw it cost them a tenth of a tenth of a percentage of profits and it changed.
Read an article some months ago about folks in Albuquerque who got solar systems, only to learn that they couldn’t connect to the grid. The incoming lines weren’t sized for it. The first 2 did ok, everyone else nope.
A friend of mine bought into the hype at his home in Michigan. It turns out that the payment plan is longer than the useful life of the solar panels AND after several years, the power company decided to cancel the power buy back program. It's all a smoke and mirrors game.
Onebadcad
12-14-2022, 1:29pm
These panels weigh under 50# and cover just over 21 square feet, so 2.4 pounds per square feet. That's about the same as a second layer of fiberglass shingles, which is very common...
I have never researched the weight based on type and area of coverage needed.
I am aware than putting them on your roof may result in policy cancellation.
Then again in FL most HO INS Companies are not looking to increase policies, most are looking to cancel the higher risks, this will continue to be the trend for a very long time.
Also, many homes have either concrete slate or concrete barrel tiles, much heavier than shingles, not sure if these homes are built with stronger trusses, or the builders push the weight limit to the max. My guess is most roofs in FL are maxed out, adding the weight of panels is pushing the upper limits.
DJ_Critterus
12-14-2022, 1:32pm
I have never researched the weight based on type and area of coverage needed.
I am aware than putting them on your roof may result in policy cancellation.
Then again in FL most HO INS Companies are not looking to increase policies, most are looking to cancel the higher risks, this will continue to be the trend for a very long time.
Also, many homes have either concrete slate or concrete barrel tiles, much heavier than shingles, not sure if these homes are built with stronger trusses, or the builders push the weight limit to the max. My guess is most roofs in FL are maxed out, adding the weight of panels is pushing the upper limits.
Here's something to ponder. It's well known here in FL that if your roof is over 20 years old the HO Ins will be cancelled. What if a new, upgraded roof that can handle the weight of panels is installed? Will the homeowner be able to he HO Ins or not? Does it depend on the terms of the policy or will it be a blanket "no" to prevent the Ins Co. from having to face the possibility of paying out one day in the future?
I have never researched the weight based on type and area of coverage needed.
I am aware than putting them on your roof may result in policy cancellation.
Then again in FL most HO INS Companies are not looking to increase policies, most are looking to cancel the higher risks, this will continue to be the trend for a very long time.
Also, many homes have either concrete slate or concrete barrel tiles, much heavier than shingles, not sure if these homes are built with stronger trusses, or the builders push the weight limit to the max. My guess is most roofs in FL are maxed out, adding the weight of panels is pushing the upper limits.
I just designed a house with reclaimed clay tiles. 15 pounds per square feet vs 4 for two layers of fiberglass. Wind loads are higher.
I need Gozar to come over so I can start selling gas back to the provider. Bill quadrupled in one month.:sadangel:
DJ_Critterus
12-14-2022, 2:31pm
I need Gozar to come over so I can start selling gas back to the provider. Bill quadrupled in one month.:sadangel:
Ever seen the movie "Thunderpants" with Rupert Grint (better known as Ron Weasely)?
https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-11-2020/PvO4Js.gif
MadInNc
12-14-2022, 4:40pm
Ever seen the movie "Thunderpants" with Rupert Grint (better known as Ron Weasely)?
https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-11-2020/PvO4Js.gif
…or DJ? (W sound :leaving:)
sublime1996525
12-14-2022, 5:02pm
Fairly sure I have posted here about some friends near W.Va. up in the mountains.....their electric bill on the ~7000' house was 900+/month and they have heat pump on ~30 acres.....so went solar some 3 years ago....dropped their bill down to the 150;month here just recently....
they paid a LOT for the build though, on the side of the mountain...not on the roof.....I forget the price on the install, but over 100 grand....
100000/(900-150)=11+ years.... too long.
Lol I was going to post that.
For those who have solar what is your ROI? I looked into in both Florida and NH and the ROI ,best case, was 15 years.
Onebadcad
12-14-2022, 8:07pm
Here's something to ponder. It's well known here in FL that if your roof is over 20 years old the HO Ins will be cancelled. What if a new, upgraded roof that can handle the weight of panels is installed? Will the homeowner be able to he HO Ins or not? Does it depend on the terms of the policy or will it be a blanket "no" to prevent the Ins Co. from having to face the possibility of paying out one day in the future?
I doubt with roofing prices currently about 40+% higher vs. 10 years ago, that many would considering including any upgrades to a standard roof, then again if you are going to pay for a stronger, longer-lasting roof, FL is the place.
Not sure if you could get a fair-priced policy if roof was better-than-average construction, one would think at least one insurer would be fair.
Then again, have yet to see great math to justify panels in FL. FL at least FPL service areas, have below average kwh cost, so FL home math gets tougher.
A lot of FL HO INS issues are hopefully resolved going forward, as if it continues to increase at current pace and many insurers continue to cancel policies, many could be forced to sell their homes,,, very sad.
Here's something to ponder. It's well known here in FL that if your roof is over 20 years old the HO Ins will be cancelled. What if a new, upgraded roof that can handle the weight of panels is installed? Will the homeowner be able to he HO Ins or not? Does it depend on the terms of the policy or will it be a blanket "no" to prevent the Ins Co. from having to face the possibility of paying out one day in the future?
One issue have heard about here on the treasure coast is that the roof with solar panels will mist likely develop leak a due to the vibration if the panels that cause the leaks. I know three people who had to remove their panels, all pool heaters, to keep their policies.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.